Unwatched and ready to rumble!

[Squirminator2k]

The shading makes a bad picture look worse.

[Shadowmoon]

The shading makes a bad picture look worse.

Thats strange, coz i copied it from faraz......

[Squirminator2k]

That was your first mistake - copying.

[Shadowmoon]

That was your first mistake - copying.

To be honest i don't know where it goes, and i think i might need to do that at the mo, because McMaster advised me to.

Anywayz, whats wrong with it?

[yakuza]

To be honest i don't know where it goes, and i think i might need to do that at the mo, because McMaster advised me to.

Anywayz, whats wrong with it?

The curves light draws on round surfaces are perfect curves, and not parkinson lines.

[McMaster]

People told Farazparsa that the shading was wrong.

If you see a guide, always look carefully at the comments, because it might not be good.

Try to do the shading style in Splapp's guide as your first shading.

[Metal Alex]

Just do this: Imagine the worm in 3D in your thoughts. Then, imagine a light source giving light to it.

Were would the shade be? How dark would the shadow be? is it just ambient light? If so, how would it look?

Pick random objects and see how light works. The last shading was completely mindless.

[Shadowmoon]

People told Farazparsa that the shading was wrong.

If you see a guide, always look carefully at the comments, because it might not be good.

Try to do the shading style in Splapp's guide as your first shading.

I'll do that then. I'll also try what Metal Alex said.

[McMaster]

The style that I liked most from you is this (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=645868&postcount=24).

Try to do the same style in Flash, with better eyes, eyebrows and crease and with shading.

[robowurmz]

A lot of the information on shading here (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm) is great! It's really worth having a look!

[Shadowmoon]

A lot of the information on shading here (http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm) is great! It's really worth having a look!

I'll look at that when i get back, from Cyprus.

Yeah, i'm going on holiday to Cyprus for 2 weeks, sun, fun, swimmin' in the pool..... i can't wait!:)

I won't have internet connection, but i don't want it anyway. I'm on holiday, after all.

So there will be no pictures for 17 days.

[Shadowmoon]

New pic: (maybe the last one for weeks)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormangrymouth.png

[McMaster]

Even if SF corrected the tongue in a previous picture, you still have it wrong.

And it doesn't look that much better from your previous picture.

As I said, try to do this (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=645868&postcount=24) style in Flash and some corrections on the shape and crease.

[Shadowmoon]

Fine, but i'll keep the tail i had in the previous pic.

[McMaster]

Fine, but i'll keep the tail i had in the previous pic.

I don't like that tail.

[Shadowmoon]

I don't like that tail.

Well slapp uses that tail.

[McMaster]

Well slapp uses that tail.

In the guide he uses a smoother one.

[Shadowmoon]

In the guide he uses a smoother one.

Okay.

I'm working on the pic now, and i have to say with the old mouth it looks better.

[super_frea]

I thought I already told you how to do a tongue in that position? I even edited the picture for you and you've done it exactly the same as last time :-/

Oh and also Splapp's tails don't really look anything like that...

[McMaster]

I thought I already told you how to do a tongue in that position? I even edited the picture for you and you've done it exactly the same as last time :-/

Oh and also Splapp's tails don't really look anything like that...

Thank you for saying what I just said.

[Shadowmoon]

McMaster, it doesn't matter if someone has said something you've alread said!

So what?

[super_frea]

Thank you for saying what I just said.

Er nope. You mentioned nothing about the positioning of the tongue you only said it was wrong and you also said nothing about the fact that it was exactly the same as last time.

You can show yourself out...

[McMaster]

I said that it was the same, and I told him he should do it like the example you made.

[super_frea]

Yes but it wasn't.

[Shadowmoon]

I'm making a return to art, soon.

[shadowman]

You should be bludgeoned with a sharp stick for that.

Not only was it utterly unfunny, it's totally inappropriate for this forum.

[McMaster]

Today he has been doing this all the time in Team17.tk.

[Shadowmoon]

You should be bludgeoned with a sharp stick for that.

Thanks!

Today he has been doing this all the time in Team17.tk.

Yes but i've given up now. I think i rick rolled shadowman tho.

I'm working on a pic of Akontaya, one of my characters from my path chooser.

[McMaster]

I didn't get fooled by those rickrolls. :p

[Shadowmoon]

Really, it came from when i looked back at a thread in team17.tk, clicked on a link that Kelster posted, and forgot it was a rickroll!

So i wanted to rickroll people. OK i'm fed up of rickrolling people now, soooo.....

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Sneakpeekofupcomingpic.png

Click on the link. Its a sneak peek of the pic i'm working on now, but its also showing you the head.

And the rickroll is where i clicked my own link by myself=P

[McMaster]

You said you cancelled it on Team17.tk.

[Shadowmoon]

You said you cancelled it on Team17.tk.

What?

I'm sorry, but i don't understand what you mean.

Anyway, i'm working on a picture now so i can show you what my new shape looks at, then i may post a picture of one of my path choosing characters.

[McMaster]

What?

I'm sorry, but i don't understand what you mean.

:confused:

[Shadowmoon]

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormnewshape.png

I think i should show you my new shape worms.

Comments on the body, and tail, please.

Also: 'It sucks' comments will be ignored, unless helpfull criticism is included with it.

[yakuza]

I think you should stop drawing plain worms standing in a void because quite frankly it's getting boring.

[Shadowmoon]

There's a reason why i'm doing that.....

I want people to tell me wether the shape is OK.

[Plasma]

First tip: tail's too small.

[Pyramid]

I just can't see the difference between your older ones and this one...
What have you been changing?

[Shadowmoon]

The width of the worms, and a lip like the one on my old pics....

[McMaster]

I commented on Team17.tk.

[Shadowmoon]

I just saw your post, and replied.

Anyway do any of you prefer my old pics/style to this one? (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6044/poninjavsbastinno2lt7.png)

EDIT: I finally decided to do the pic that McMaster requested.....

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/McMasterworm.png

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8236/wormji9.png

What time is it? its comparing time!

I think the new one i did is better. Comment on the shape please.;)

I think all pictures i do now will be in that worm shape.

Oh and requests accepted now.

[WormGod]

Yes, but its been comparing time for the last 10 ruddy pages.

Your art styles are rubbish and boring to me as a result, and I want to see something more than the same worm drawn differently and - badly, to be fair.

I want to see you do a comic, or something. Then you'd have a story and humour to compromise for the arWormGod, your mental buoyancy is subsiding. You still want your achievement?
Well, I guess you'll be bad either way. But please steer clear from the universe-implosion-induced land of the white void from now on, lest you be the worst fan-art contributor again.

[super_frea]

I commented on Team17.tk.

Most pointless post ever ^

AND WE NEED SOME VARIETY SHADOWMOON.

[McMaster]

Most pointless post ever ^

I told him because he seems to check mostly here instead of Team17.tk.

[Shadowmoon]

Most pointless post ever ^

AND WE NEED SOME VARIETY SHADOWMOON.

You want variety?

Oh and requests accepted now.

OK? boring plain worms will stop been drawn for a loooongggg while.

Yes, but its been comparing time for the last 10 ruddy pages.

I've only asked you to compare about 3 times in this thread. Thats too much, and you know it.;)

Your art styles are rubbish and boring to me as a result, and I want to see something more than the same worm drawn differently and - badly, to be fair.

Wish granted. Also that isn't my style.

I drew plain worms to do a test for my shapes and styles! OK?

However, all you've said is their rubbish and boring which means really nothing to me, except practice a bit more. Explain why, please.

But please steer clear from the universe-implosion-induced land of the white void from now on, lest you be the worst fan-art contributor again.

No. I want to be good at art. I'm gonna keep trying, however long it takes. I can tell you now, nothing, nobody, is going to stop me.

So stop trying to get me to give up.

Also, i'm not the worst fan art contribrutor. I'm not far off from been there, but at least i'm determined to get better.

I want to see you do a comic, or something.

I have. Check threads made by me, although they weren't that good.

I told him because he seems to check mostly here instead of Team17.tk.

Your wrong. I check my art thread everytime i go on this forum or t17.tk.

Also: WormGod that post was a whopping change from the last post you made in this thread

[Shadowmoon]

Anyway, i'm currently drawing a picture of Phovos the Raptor a non T17 O member on team17.tk who has a sigworm... i'll post a link to the sigworm thread so you can see it after i do it.

[WormGod]

Hoooboy.

I've only asked you to compare about 3 times in this thread. Thats too much, and you know it.;)

You may have only asked us 3 times but each picture in this thread is so alike to each other that there is no choice but to compare.
You've tried a billiard of styles. Now stick with one.

Wish granted. Also that isn't my style.

I don't see it granted.
And that style in question, you mean? Yeah that's Splapp's but it still has its flaws in your execution.

I drew plain worms to do a test for my shapes and styles! OK?

As said, you've done this enough. Choose your favourite one and explore it. Draw different poses, draw different sigworms, and make backgrounds for glod's sake.

However, all you've said is their rubbish and boring which means really nothing to me, except practice a bit more. Explain why, please.

Fine.
Your shading is appauling, the eyes are perspectively misplaced, the outline has too many sharp points and straight lines, you can't draw tongues right, the tail crease is bad and in the wrong places, and the pupils of your last drawing need a bit of help too.
I could go on, if you like.

No. I want to be good at art. I'm gonna keep trying, however long it takes. I can tell you now, nothing, nobody, is going to stop me.

So stop trying to get me to give up.

Also, i'm not the worst fan art contribrutor. I'm not far off from been there, but at least i'm determined to get better.

Oh, man.
I'm not telling you to give up. My current infuriation is that at least 5 pages, if you wanna be specific of this thread has been filled with the same worm drawn in different styles, with the same white background, with the same lack of novelty.

And I didn't say you were the worst. Get a dictionary and look up 'lest'.

I have. Check threads made by me, although they weren't that good.

I've looked through enough pages of bad art to give up, honestly.

Also: WormGod that post was a whopping change from the last post you made in this thread

This one and the post in question are the only two I've made in this thread.
Justify your means.

[Shadowmoon]

I'm actually thinking of making dot eyes instead of those eyes.

Anyway, where should they go on my last pic?

Justify your means.

Well in the last post you were more fairer in this one you've become more mean

OK, i'll try to draw pictures with backgrounds and different poses. Not all will come with backgrounds though.

[McMaster]

I'm actually thinking of making dot eyes instead of those eyes.

No, don't do that, they look horrible and they ruin the drawing's quality.

[Shadowmoon]

I now announce that most pics from now on will have a background!

This took me quite a while. The frustrating thing is that i had to do the grass in paint cuz i couldn't colour it full, it would colour the whole square.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Phovosandabackground.png

Phovos with a mountain background! i'll upload this to my DA.

McMaster, your next.

The sigworm thread in team17.tk (http://z11.invisionfree.com/Team17/index.php?showtopic=296)

Oh, and i'm considering a flash remake of 'Mountain Rumble'

Y'see, Phovos Sigworm is a team17.tk one.

Bigger version:

http://willhostforfood.com/files2/2442633/Phovos%20and%20a%20background%20bigger.png

[WormGod]

So, first: lemme just say the worm looks rather good.
See? You'll get more compliments if you make the picture interesting, so we don't have to scrutinise just one thing. His spikes could do with a bit more refining, but then that bring us on to...

...the background. Nice to see one, for once, but you'll want to practice it a bit now that you've explored it.
First, the mountains look terrible. The snow cap being presented with one straight line, the entire (single) mountain made of only 2 lines, and when in context with the other mountains, they look awkward and just wrong.
Also, don't give the mountains afros made of cloud. Try using layers - then you can draw the clouds without having to make way for the mountaintops.
Next, don't use primary colours. I know you did the 'grass' in Paint, but even Paint can have custom colours.
If you are going to use primary colours, use them with different shades, to make it more lifelike and 3-D.
Finally, don't use the line tool and the brush in the same picture like you have done. Stick with one tool, and once you're better you can start to really experiment.

[Shadowmoon]

I got Phovos ammount of spikes wrong sooo....

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Phovosandabackgroundeditedbigger.png

Bigger version:

Clicky (http://willhostforfood.com/files2/3734719/Phovos%20and%20a%20background%20edited.png)

So, first: lemme just say the worm looks rather good.

OK, thanks.

First, the mountains look terrible. The snow cap being presented with one straight line, the entire (single) mountain made of only 2 lines, and when in context with the other mountains, they look awkward and just wrong.

I've just remembered 31367

Teddyworm did this, and are these mountains OK to use or are they worse? i'd say they are better, and i might even try adding shading.

It was posted as an example for backgrounds in my comic thread. (worms i drew:p)

I don't think i'll edit the picture to make the mountains better (or maybe i will) but its something to remember next time i do backgrounds with mountains in them.

Also, don't give the mountains afros made of cloud. Try using layers - then you can draw the clouds without having to make way for the mountaintops.

I don't really understand layers. I don't understand how to use them but i know they can be used in shading.

Do you mean it would be better if the mountains were covered by clouds?

Next, don't use primary colours. I know you did the 'grass' in Paint, but even Paint can have custom colours.

Actually that was my mistake. I meant the 'paintbrush'in flash.

I coloured it light green. Maybe colour it darker or something?

If you are going to use primary colours, use them with different shades, to make it more lifelike and 3-D.

Okay, i'll try and add shading of different colours. When i do grass again. I think i'll do grass in McMasters pic, (which i haven't started yet)

What are primary colours also?

Finally, don't use the line tool and the brush in the same picture like you have done. Stick with one tool, and once you're better you can start to really experiment.

OK. I used the mouse for the clouds because its much easier than using the line tool.

The grass i don't know. I should have used line tool, so i'll use the line tool in my next picture.

[Pyramid]

There's a BIGGER version? :eek:
Well, the first thing I notice on the picture is tha lack of shadin, then of course, the mountains and clouds
Even the grass it's just plain. You need to add small details that will make the difference
So, stop using these lines and put your mouse to work. It would be better pratice on the paper first
Anyway, here's an quick example
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6448/simpleexampleut7.png

[Shadowmoon]

Well, OK.

WormGod told me not to use two types of drawing, though, and i suck at mouse-drawn worms, i know i'll have to get used to it one day, though.

McMaster said for me to change the crease to this style instead of my old crease i did:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadfireaction3therealversion.png

I'm a bit unsure about this, as nobody except him has commented on it.

[Kelster23]

Meet me on msn or talk to me on .tk, and I'll teach you what I know. As for layers, I set the transparency so you could see them all, but think of them as slides. If you draw on one underneath, it will not come over top of the above layers. On Flash, my experience is that you need to lock the layers that you are not working on when erasing, otherwise it seems to erase them too.
Anyway, layer example. (This picture is far from being finished by the way)

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vtbmsy.png

Even though this is in GIMP, layers still generally work the same. I hope this helps.

[Shadowmoon]

OK, i'll try and practice with them now.

[McMaster]

I'm having a hard time at using layers.

[yakuza]

I'm having a hard time at using layers.

ok .

[Shadowmoon]

I really don't get how to use layers at all. I know how they work now, its just.... how do you use them?

I'll see if i can meet you on MSN later, or if someone would answer its appreciated

[Kelster23]

It's like drawing on slides. Drawing on top and underneath without harming the other layers.

[McMaster]

ok .

NO WAY!!!

How do you use layers in Flash?

[thomasp]

NO WAY!!!

How do you use layers in Flash?
I thoroughly recommend utilising a wonderful utility called "Google" - it's amazing. For example:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=layers+tutorial+flash&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[Shadowmoon]

No new art, just a notice.

If i've been quiet with my art lately its because i'm practicing using layers.

Progress: Now know how to hide stuff, put stuff in front of each other. Re-arrange order of layers.

[Shadowmoon]

*bump*

My new sigworm, Agent Moon.....


http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Agentmooninaction.png

McMasters request! (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcmasterisstillalivebigdb3.png)

No shading yet as i am still practicing.

EDIT:

Improved version of McMaster (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcmasterisstillaliveediww0.png)

[Pyramid]

And what's the improvement?

[Shadowmoon]

And what's the improvement?

Changed grass. How could you not notice that? McMaster commented, and i remembered your post.

I'd like criticism, please. Also, McMaster said this: Is it the right eye that is bigger than the left, or the left that is bigger than the right?

I think its definitely left bigger than right.

EDIT: Ah, i know why. You thought i meant 'improvements to McMaster' and not 'improvements to the grass, and sun problem fixed'

I tried to do the tongue a bit like super_frea's this time. Is it better now?

Also what did you think of the expression? i personally thought it was good.

[super_frea]

Changed grass. How could you not notice that? McMaster commented, and i remembered your post.

You really shouldn't be focusing on improving the grass.

[Shadowmoon]

You really shouldn't be focusing on improving the grass.

OK, what are the main problems with the worm?

Is the shape OK? does the pose still look robotic in the agent moon picture?

EDIT: Never mind about the eye comment. Looked back at my old art thread and saw your post.....

[super_frea]

Ok. You still need to try out different styles. It's still too generic. I reckon you should do a comparison picture of lots of different styles, so you can get feedback and see which is better. Most of your pictures are exactly the same and I don't personally really like the style of the pictures you are drawing atm.

[Shadowmoon]

OK.

So i guess its the eyes your not fond of? no comments on the shape, so i'm going to assume its OK at the moment and nothing horrendously wrong.

I'll look at some artists threads now.

What if the eyes actually were more to the left? (like my new one) would that make it slightly more interesting?

[super_frea]

I wouldn't focus on the eyes really. They are no worse than the rest of the picture. The drawing as a whole needs improving.

[Liketyspli]

Your worms are still eating half their bottom lips.

[Shadowmoon]

Your worms are still eating half their bottom lips.

Does that happen with the one with the green worm too?

I wouldn't focus on the eyes really. They are no worse than the rest of the picture. The drawing as a whole needs improving.

So what i could i do to improve the picture, then?

If shading was added would that make the pictures i draw less generic?

[yakuza]

These worms, they all have the same expression.

[super_frea]

So what i could i do to improve the picture, then?

If shading was added would that make the pictures i draw less generic?

There's nothing specific I can say. You just need to keep drawing, but not the same picture over and over. Keep trying different poses and styles and eventually you yourself will be able to tell what is wrong about the drawings.

[Shadowmoon]

These worms, they all have the same expression.

Tell me you got out of the wrong side of the bed when you woke up this morning!

[Plasma]

Tell me you got out of the wrong side of the bed when you woke up this morning!
Actually, he has a point. All your worms either have half-closed angry eyes and a half-visible mouth with clenched teeth, or fully open eyes and a fully-open, smiling mouth with a tongue sticking up. You need to learn more facial expressions.

Also, I support SuperFrea's suggestion: draw a whole bunch of doodles of worms, making up a different style for each one, then post them here. That's the best way to get a good basic style.

[Shadowmoon]

OK, i'll do that soon.

Anyway, i'm going to post a plain worm with Shading (and no background) and i want comments on the Shading. If the Shading's OK, i'll create a style sheet.

And when i say plain, i mean just a normal worm. It may be boring, but this is just for the shading.

[robowurmz]

It took me just a couple of minutes to scribble this out.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/Robowurmz/Bg.png

[Shadowmoon]

I'm doing the shading pic now. Fyi, the expression isn't that good, and its meant to be not good. I didn't want to waste much time, as its really the shading i'm gonna spend time on.

I would like comments on that. If the shading is good enough i'll prepare a style sheet, if not.... well we'll get to that when that happens.

Also, i can draw the shape of a worm in 5 minutes.

[Liketyspli]

I'm doing the shading pic now. Fyi, the expression isn't that good, and its meant to be not good. I didn't want to waste much time, as its really the shading i'm gonna spend time on.Spend time on everything, don't post crap on the internet, it's flooded with the stuff.

[Shadowmoon]

I have a question here.

I'm doing bad with the shading still, so i think its going to be a while until i can shade, but i am going to practice a lot.

Basti@n did this (http://bastiannunez.deviantart.com/art/Shadowmoon12-s-Request-Shaded-86613730)

In a shading that does not appear to be brush or line shading. Does anyone know how to do this type of Shading?

[shadowman]

Stop colouring with gradients.

[Kelster23]

Also, i can draw the shape of a worm in 5 minutes.

I can do one in half of a minute. It should be the detail that takes lots. Not so much the basic lineart. The minor lineart that makes all the detail... that's a different thing.

[robowurmz]

Always shade with the brush. Looks better in my opinion.

[shadowman]

Gradient shading is the worst idea ever.

It's not realistic at all.

[Paul.Power]

It took me just a couple of minutes to scribble this out.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s258/Robowurmz/Bg.pngNext time, type the words :p.

[robowurmz]

Yeah, good idea. :P

[Shadowmoon]

I know i said i would leave the forum for a while.

Well, i've been advised by a lot of members from team17.tk to return, but only for my art. And that's exactly what i will do. So i'll only go here, until i think i am ready to return here fully.

Last time you saw me i complained about someone who had made fun of my posting on team17.tk.

Well, that actually did make an impact on me. A few days after, i decided that i did act like team17.tk was so important and that i needed to stop. Now, i just post my art, and i post in some topics, but thats about it.

That place will die soon.




Anyway



Some weeks ago, i was looking at my old art topics here. I couldn't believe i thought i was a good artist at the time. I actually laughed at my artwork and thought 'i sucked badly'

I really deserved the treatment i got in 'Shadowmoons art'. And i'll admit that i did deserve the treatment from S2K, etc, in other threads.


I've changed a number of things that were mentioned to me in the thread that i blatantly ignored whenever they said it.


Now i have my own style of how i draw worms. I also now shade my pictures. I've also stopped putting my worms eyes in the middle, the crease looks a bit more like a crease imo, hands look a little more realistic than before, the bodies look better, and finally..... my pictures are now mouse-drawn.

Some months back, i switched to line drawn drawings. Some days ago i switched back to mouse which i think has improved a lot over my original mouse drawings, and is better than my line tool drawings.

Kelster has told me that McMaster looks good, and that it improved over my previous pictures. I messed up on Poninja a bit, but i recently changed him so he looks more like McMaster.

The only criticism i've had is that the worms are too fat, which McMaster said.

The picture.... (this is the first picture i've done with my new style)

http://i38.tinypic.com/nvb1qf.png

Poninja is not offended by this at all. I can even prove it. Many times on team17.tk he appears dumb in stories and he has said nothing.

I'm not actually making fun of him, actually. I'm making his sigworm look dumb, which i guess isn't really an insult to Poninja at all.



Also, i yesterday did some hands too.

http://i37.tinypic.com/xoqhsj.png


I'll leave it to the rest of you to say wether i have improved or not.


EDIT: I did feel a little doubtfull about returning here for my art at first. But determination is a strong force...

[thomasp]

You need to sort the shading out...

On poninja's hat/bandana/whatever, the light is coming from the left (right side in shadow), but on his body, the light is coming from the right (left side in shadow) - that wouldn't happen, no matter what lighting system you had.

On the pointing hand you have the light source coming from below the hand on the palm, bottom and top finger but from the right on the middle finger (although this would depend how "hard" its curled around and its position relative to the bottom finger). And given its placement on the worm, the shading needs to be totally reworked since on the left hand worm you have light from the left on the body but light from below on the hand.


If you're not sure what the shading should look like, get a desk light or torch and have a play around with a random object and see where the shadows fall.

[Shadowmoon]

If you're not sure what the shading should look like, get a desk light or torch and have a play around with a random object and

Okay.

I did have some doubt about the bandana and the thumbs up hand, so i thought there would be something wrong.

Also:

How do i use/do gradients?

No, i'm not going to shade with them mainly, but sometimes they will come in usefull.

[Plasma]

1: Lines shouldn't have jutting edges like you have there. The outline should be completely smooth.
2: Like ThomasP said, the shading is COMPLETELY wrong, and I don't think you've quite copped on that shading is supposed to represent a direction of light.
3: For the last time, DO NOT USE THE CIRCLE TOOL!

[Shadowmoon]

3: For the last time, DO NOT USE THE CIRCLE TOOL!

I didn't, i used the mouse this time:p

2: Like ThomasP said, the shading is COMPLETELY wrong, and I don't think you've quite copped on that shading is supposed to represent a direction of light.

So both worm's and bishop hat shading is wrong too? or is it just the bandana and the pointing hand?

1: Lines shouldn't have jutting edges like you have there. The outline should be completely smooth.

Right, i'll make them smoother, probably the worst jutting edges, but not all.

EDIT: Oh you mean on the bishop's hat? McMaster wanted them like that.

[TeDdywoRm]

So both worm's and bishop hat shading is wrong too? or is it just the bandana and the pointing hand?
All of it.

[Plasma]

So both worm's and bishop hat shading is wrong too? or is it just the bandana and the pointing hand?
Let's presume that the light source is off to the left. That means the right side of anything should be darker than its left side.
Aka: everything.


EDIT: Oh you mean on the bishop's hat? McMaster wanted them like that.
Not an excuse, unless he, for some reason, decided it should be Mickey Mouse style where they'll always be perfect circles facing the viewer.

[Shadowmoon]

Right well instead of asking you all how the shading should go, i'll make some guesses myself.

Bishop- Shading the other way

Bishop triangles- The other way on the right triangle?

Poninja's T-shirt- Shading the other way

Pointing Hand- Not sure at all

Both worms- Not sure. Perhaps add a new shade of pink on there or something? i got it from .Jet's example in 'McMasters art' but didn't copy it completely.

I won't bother editing the picture now that i found that out, i'll wait to see if i'm right or not.

EDIT:



No, I mean all outlines.

Okay.

Let's presume that the light source is off to the left. That means the right side of anything should be darker than its left side.
Aka: everything.

Got it.

Not an excuse, unless he, for some reason, decided it should be Mickey Mouse style where they'll always be perfect circles facing the viewer.

Okay.

I think i get what you and thomasp mean about the shading, so soon i'll fix that.


Also do you think i've improved?

Also, i will just get rid of some of the jutting edges. I don't really think it is very important, so i'll just get rid of most of them.

[minute55]

i think the thumbs up should be more like the 4 fingers.you know...extend the thumbs to be more like it.

[Shadowmoon]

i think the thumbs up should be more like the 4 fingers.you know...extend the thumbs to be more like it.

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say here.

Are you basically saying increase the size of the hand?

EDIT: Edited Shading

http://i36.tinypic.com/n4d4k4.png

I'm still unsure about some of the bandana, and very unsure about the hand. And the bishop triangles

Let's presume that the light source is off to the left. That means the right side of anything should be darker than its left side.
Aka: everything.

How are those worms wrong then? I don't get it.

[shadowman]

Now it looks like someone's waving a flashlight at them.

[Shadowmoon]

I'm not sure where the shading would go at all....

I'll try the flashlight thing tonight.

Also, would you say i've improved?

Is everything still wrong then?

[super_frea]

Honestly there hasn't been that much improvement. But you seem to have found your own style a bit more now and the worms themselves look altogether less generic as a result.

[McMaster]

Ιn this edit, you actually made the lines on me worse.

[tal05]

Ιn this edit, you actually made the lines on me worse.

ermmm no, he actually didn't

[Shadowmoon]

Ιn this edit, you actually made the lines on me worse.

I don't think so. If you actually look at the lines you'll see that the jutting edges are removed.

[McMaster]

He did. I found some.

I'll higlight them later, because I need to go soon.

[Shadowmoon]

Don't bother.

Jutting edges will always be left behind in flash.

The thing i'm concentrating on now is the shading.

[Squirminator2k]

Jutting edges will always be left behind in flash.

Ah, but no. No no.

[Shadowmoon]

Whenever i paint with the mouse in flash, they are very hard to avoid.

For me.

Please understand.

EDIT: I'm not saying i can't be bothered, but some even don't rub out.

[robowurmz]

Zoom in, and draw over the juts to make them smooth.

[minute55]

I'm confused as to what you're trying to say here.

Are you basically saying increase the size of the hand?

i mean make it fatter.its stiff.

[McMaster]

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8804/n4d4k4yf3.png

You're not smart! You're not a scientist! You're not a doctor! You're not even a full-time employee! Where did your life go so wrong?

OK, maybe I highlighted too many mistakes... but the ones you need to fix are obvious. Ignore most highlights.

[Shadowmoon]

Well i'll fix some.....

Btw, some parts you highlighted aren't jutting edges.

[Kelster23]

Let's presume that the light source is off to the left. That means the right side of anything should be darker than its left side.
Aka: everything.


Unless you start getting into reflected light. Then not everything on the right side will be dark. ;)

Well i'll fix some.....

Btw, some parts you highlighted aren't jutting edges.

They're just where you joined two lines. Honestly though, you did get rid of the majority so it doesn't look as bad anymore.

[Plasma]

Unless you start getting into reflected light. Then not everything on the right side will be dark. ;)
I presume you meant something along the lines of 'a double lightsource'. For reflected light to be brighter than the original light, it would require a very conveniently shaped and placed concave mirror.

Physics! Ruining your attempts to be clever since 1984!

[Kelster23]

I presume you meant something along the lines of 'a double lightsource'. For reflected light to be brighter than the original light, it would require a very conveniently shaped and placed concave mirror.

Physics! Ruining your attempts to be clever since 1984!

No. Reflected light is light reflected off another object, such as a white table. If you place your arm close to a white table, you will notice that some of that light will be reflected to the part closest to the table. It's not usually brighter, no.

[Shadowmoon]

Think i just figured how to do the worm shading on McMaster....

On McMaster, on the left, its supposed to be much darker, right? and then when it comes to the right is it supposed to be lighter?

And on Poninja, its supposed to be much darker on the right and lighter than the left?

Was that what you meant Plasma?

Also:

Is there any parts where i have done the shading right?

[minute55]

make the left side shading on the king*a tiny bit darker.

*The picture is from a time,where humans are slaves,and WORMS RULE THE WORLD!!!ALL HAIL EXPLOSIVE SHEEP!!

[Shadowmoon]

OK.

I'll do the correction on the worms shading soon, and make the thumb wider.

I will correct other shading but i'm doing the worms first.

Also, its not a king. Its a bishop.

[Kelster23]

The worms 3d concept art is a great shading guide for worms.. :P

[Akuryou13]

....not sure why I'm here, but since I am I brought an example since you can't seem to figure out where the lighting would go.

the pink arrows are the directions light is shining on the surface of the worms.
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/4845/shadowmoonhelpig2.th.jpg (http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shadowmoonhelpig2.jpg)http://img390.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

the first one is your picture. the light rays are a scattered mess. poninja seems to have ridiculously dim spot lights shining on very specific parts of his body and someone irradiated poor mcmaster's hand and it's producing its own light.

the second picture shows absolutely no editing on my part other than to switch the coloration to the shades they should have been to get the best result. the result here is that the colors look slightly more like they should, but there are still a few wonky spots (all the fingers, for instance, are self-illuminated still). poninja's face is FAR more luminous than mcmaster's. either mcmaster's shading is right and the light source is up, to the left and slightly behind the worms, or poninja's shading is right and the light source is up, to the left and slightly in front of the worms. you have to pick one. personally? I think slightly behind looks better as it stops the worms from looking pale, and so I corrected it along those lines in image 3.

in 3, I flattened all your shading out and began again on my own. if you're going to use a 3-color shading method as you're trying to do, you need one skin tone, one lightened tone and also a darkened tone. your version has 2 lightened colors and while that works fine, it should only be done in a more purposefully brightened environment. anyway, back to why I did what I did: McMaster shouldn't be as saturated with light as you showed him to be. if the light source is close, THEN he would have a large section of lightened skin to show for it, but he would also have a significantly darker section as well. basically, you just put a little too much light on mcmaster for a natural environment. the fingers of the hand should mostly be in shadow as they are being blocked by all the other fingers and the hand itsself. the lightened part of the hand would be the side of the palm, the thumb and the top finger. poninja had FAR too much light on him, as if the light source had shifted to well in front of poninja while staying behind mcmaster, which just doesn't make sense. so I put shading on poninja that's something along the lines of the shading on mcmaster (thin sliver of light on the left side, large portion of darkness on the right). also, with a bandana, you should keep in mind that light isn't going to hardly effect the tassles at all (I think I put a bit too much on my example). in the positions you put them in (which is also wrong, they should be hanging limply unless a strong wind is blowing), the top one would get a little light, mostly on the right side and almost no light on the bottom one. and also don't forget to shade the drool and the tongue.

also, mcmaster's suggestion that you clean up the jagged edges that flash produced is utter nonsense. ignore him, as per usual. however, if you're looking to clean up your lines, you should look at the eyes of both worms, poninja's bandana tassles and mcmaster's hand (and the jewels of his crown, though they're less important) as these things have some very wobbly sections (and don't look at my example as the reference for wobbliness as my editing made some of the problem worse and I didn't fix it as that wasn't the point of my example). all of the wobbliness, however, is something that generally just takes practice to fix. if you keep drawing you'll end up figuring out how to make everything smoother and nicer looking over time.

and for the record, my shading corrections are by no means flawless, either, it's just an example of shading closer to what you should be going for. primarily in terms of the direction of light hitting the objects.

and now I leave it up to the rest of you. shadowmoon remains on my ignore list until he's shown me he can become sensible. I've not read through posts here hardly at all for anything other than to look at what advice has been given and to expand or discredit the ones that stuck out to me. shadowmoon, you can take my advice or ignore it as is your preference. I'm just trying to provide a bit of help. whether you reply to this or not, I doubt I'll ever see it :p just do me the favor of taking the help.

[Shadowmoon]

I will take your help Akuryou. I thought i would need darker skin tones, but i wasn't so sure. Thank you for the help.

I have decided that the light will come from behind the worms from now on. I think it looks a lot better instead of the front.

I'll do some corrections on the shading, and after that i'll probably create another picture, or something.

[Plasma]

I have decided that the light will come from behind the worms from now on. I think it looks a lot better instead of the front.
It's gonna have to come from behind one worm and in front of another. Because the light should only come from one direction in the entire panel.

[Kelster23]

It's gonna have to come from behind one worm and in front of another. Because the light should only come from one direction in the entire panel.

Unless you live on a planet scroched by twin suns that are always on opposite sides of the sky, or if there's a rather conviently placed lamp :P

Yeah I'll stop putting all the exceptions on the rules you post... you need to say generally because in art you could have as many light sources you as want, providing you show them all so people don't get confused.
But those rules would probably confuse the hell out of shad here.

[Plasma]

you need to say generally
No I don't. People are not that stupid.

[Kelster23]

No I don't. People are not that stupid.

Yes they are. God loves them, that's why he made so many.

[Shadowmoon]

You two..... shut up.....:p

Anyway, i will accept requests now. And this time, i will do them.

[super_frea]

*REQUESTS*
:cool:

[Plasma]

*iiiiiiiiiii request!*

[Metal Alex]

What the heck... Me too.

[Pyramid]

I would request but you would die trying to do Pyramid Worm's helmet, so you can do it if you feel like it, but I will not care if you choose to don't

[Kelster23]

I don't request because you already said you'd draw me.

[shadowman]

Fine.

Draw me.

[Shadowmoon]

Apologies that this took so long. My computer has being letting me down lately.

http://i37.tinypic.com/14j88pg.jpg

Link to big version (http://i37.tinypic.com/kaqlfm.png)

Akuryou's example has tought me a lot. Now i know that there needs to be 3 shading's of light on most object's- One normal colour, one dark colour, and one light colour.

I'm also now more understanding of where to put the shading.

Kelster will be done first. And i'll try and attempt your pyramid, pyramid, it might be the detail that i'll have the most problem with, but i'll attempt.

[minute55]

getting better.

mind if i use it in another thread?

[Shadowmoon]

Well that depends on what your using it for, and what thread.

[Akuryou13]

:eek: what madness is this?! he listens to critiques, he posts like a reasonable human being and generally acts maturely?! who are you and what have you done to shadowmoon? ;)

I'll go ahead and request for one myself.

[McMaster]

The darkest worms colour used on the shading is a bit too dark. Make it brighter.

[minute55]

Well that depends on what your using it for, and what thread.

making fun of an idiot in the general video game gabbin' thread.i am gonna edit a post of mine to not make it off-topic.

[Shadowmoon]

Bit unusual, but meh, you can if you want.

However, ask yourself the following questions:


. Will i get infracted? (don't forget that if you post that at someone you are calling them dumb)

. Will other members disagree with that and flame you?

. Is it really that necessary?


Personally i would not. Especially if you don't know if you would get in trouble or not. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't.

You'll learn from your mistake anyway, if you do happen to be in trouble.



The darkest worms colour used on the shading is a bit too dark. Make it brighter.

I wouldn't say it is too dark at all.

what madness is this?! he listens to critiques, he posts like a reasonable human being and generally acts maturely?! who are you and what have you done to shadowmoon?

Thanks for the compliment.:o


EDIT: Just had a look at the thread and i think i know who your gonna make fun of. Metal Alex. I think Akuryou was actually just joking there.

In my opinion it is not necessary at all.

[Squirminator2k]

i am gonna edit a post of mine to not make it off-topic.

This is called Hellsheeping. It's frowned upon. Don't do it.

[Plasma]

This is called Hellsheeping.
You are, quite literally (http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=hellsheeping&btnG=Google+Search&meta=), the only person to use that term.

[minute55]

Bit unusual, but meh, you can if you want.

However, ask yourself the following questions:


. Will i get infracted? (don't forget that if you post that at someone you are calling them dumb)

. Will other members disagree with that and flame you?

. Is it really that necessary?


Personally i would not. Especially if you don't know if you would get in trouble or not. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't.

You'll learn from your mistake anyway, if you do happen to be in trouble.





I wouldn't say it is too dark at all.



Thanks for the compliment.:o


EDIT: Just had a look at the thread and i think i know who your gonna make fun of. Metal Alex. I think Akuryou was actually just joking there.

In my opinion it is not necessary at all.

good point.

anyway:in the middle shading of the "brain breaking worm"extend the middle shading to the right about half a centemetre.

[Squirminator2k]

You are, quite literally (http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=hellsheeping&btnG=Google+Search&meta=), the only person to use that term.

I'm he only person to add the "ing" at the end of the word, yes. I'm sure Andrew could give you the complete history of the word.

[Metal Alex]

I'm he only person to add the "ing" at the end of the word, yes. I'm sure Andrew could give you the complete history of the word.

Hellsheep. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ_OG1gR41o)

Yeah.

[Akuryou13]

The darkest worms colour used on the shading is a bit too dark. Make it brighter.you really have no idea what makes are good or not, do you? seriously, stop trying to give suggestions when you very clearly have no idea what aspects of a work of art make it actually good. the darkness of the worm is fine. in fact, it's exactly where it needs to be to make sense with the other 2 colors. if it were lighter or darker it would look a little off. well, actually, if it were LIGHTER it would look off. if it were darker it would simply look like mood lighting.

[Kelster23]

If he were to lighten the dark, the light must be darkened to show that there is less of a light.

[Akuryou13]

If he were to lighten the dark, the light must be darkened to show that there is less of a light.fair enough, but both would have to be a very marginal amount.

[SupSuper]

:eek: what madness is this?! he listens to critiques, he posts like a reasonable human being and generally acts maturely?! who are you and what have you done to shadowmoon? ;)He was swapped with minute55. :p

[Squirminator2k]

No, Minute55 has always been rubbish. Shadowmoon appears to actually be... gasp... growing as a person.

[Akuryou13]

No, Minute55 has always been rubbish. Shadowmoon appears to actually be... gasp... growing as a person.that was the point. shadowmoon is no longer filling our insufferable idiot position. he's become a rather good poster from the look of things. that means, to fill the void left by his maturity the universe has been required to send us another. that would be minute55.

[McMaster]

I wouldn't say it is too dark at all.

Well, it might be my laptop's monitor, which has brighter and different colours from my desktop monitor. So you decide.

[Akuryou13]

Well, it might be my laptop's monitor, which has brighter and different colours from my desktop monitor. So you decide.no matter how dark you turn your monitor you can still distinguish colors and you should know that the monitor is dark and so not give critiques based on how dark a picture appears on the darkened monitor....

[Shadowmoon]

Well, it might be my laptop's monitor, which has brighter and different colours from my desktop monitor. So you decide.

I'm not going to, because you are wrong.

And i'm going to guess that minute55 is wrong too about extending the shading to the right about half a centimetre, nobody commented on that so i guess he's wrong. I think he's wrong, because doing that wouldn't change much at all.

Anyway, Kelster23 is in the works and should be done today.

[McMaster]

I'm not going to, because you are wrong.


So you're not going to decide anything?

[Shadowmoon]

So you're not going to decide anything?

When i said that, i meant i'm not going to follow your criticism. Though i do agree that it came out like i said i'm not going to decide, but that is what i meant.

And if i did accept it, i would have said i would, like i usually do when someone gives me constructive criticism.

[minute55]

everyone hates me ><

[robowurmz]

S2K is going to have to rename his award, I think. Minute55 Award for Cereberal Bankruptcy, considering that Shadowmoon's suddenly got brains now.

[Akuryou13]

S2K is going to have to rename his award, I think. Minute55 Award for Cereberal Bankruptcy, considering that Shadowmoon's suddenly got brains now.didn't stop the gardy loo jokes for a long while :p

[McMaster]

S2K is going to have to rename his award, I think. Minute55 Award for Cereberal Bankruptcy, considering that Shadowmoon's suddenly got brains now.

So minute55 is going to give me all those awards now?

[Akuryou13]

So minute55 is going to give me all those awards now?you've earned it.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6391/tsafcbee3.png

[Metal Alex]

If I get bored enough, I'll try to make a new 3D trophy... or something :p

Feels bad to see Shadowmoon in there now that he's... EVOLVING.

[Shadowmoon]

So minute55 is going to give me all those awards now?

*facepalm*

everyone hates me ><


You have got off to a rather bad start in this forum. Firstly, when you join, don't immediately launch into thread posting mode. I did that, and in about 2 weeks i started getting insulted. Don't post any forum games either. You make pretty bad ones i'm afraid.

I don't think you have found the rules thread. It isn't that easy to find, considering you can't see it on the Index. See http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=35015 for the rules.

Secondly, only post a thread if you think people will be interested in it. Posting the thread 'the most pointless poll ever' when you thought it would be closed is just incredibly silly. If you think it will be closed, ask a mod before posting, or don't post it at all.

Thirdly, and one of the most important rules in a forum, think before you post. Posting stuff like this at the end of your posts:

*The picture is from a time,where humans are slaves,and WORMS RULE THE WORLD!!!ALL HAIL EXPLOSIVE SHEEP!!

Is completely unnecessary and silly.

And finally, use the spacebar. Its the biggest button on the keyboard. Its a rectangle, and you'll find it in the bottom row of buttons on your keyboard.

Most of your commas are right next to your words.


The thing you need to do the most in my opinion, is think before you post.

This thread may be helpful for you: http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34723


Anyway, i made the thumb slightly fatter because it looked too thin:

[Akuryou13]

ooooo! shadowmoon actually giving good advice no less. you truly HAVE become one of us... one of us.... one of us....

hands look pretty good. you ARE aware that you lit the pointing hand from below, right? there's nothing wrong with it, you just seem to be having trouble identifying that sort of thing.

[minute55]

your right.

your doing good art.really.

[super_frea]

Shadowmoon... is that really you? :eek:

[Akuryou13]

Shadowmoon... is that really you? :eek:great, isn't it? :D

[Plasma]

I've got the uncanny feeling that God's going to pop out now and say "Only joking" and Shadowman will revert to being his old self...

[Akuryou13]

I've got the uncanny feeling that God's going to pop out now and say "Only joking" and Shadowman will revert to being his old self...no, no. if god were going to be cruel we'd see Fwd. Adm. come back :p

[super_frea]

I've got the uncanny feeling that God's going to pop out now and say "Only joking" and Shadowman will revert to being his old self...

Ssssh! You'll jinx it!

no, no. if god were going to be cruel we'd see Fwd. Adm. come back :p

I thought Fwd. Adm. came back several times? He could still be lurking for all we know D:

[Akuryou13]

I thought Fwd. Adm. came back several times? He could still be lurking for all we know D:if he's been back he's not been nearly as insufferable while doing so....

[Shadowmoon]

hands look pretty good. you ARE aware that you lit the pointing hand from below, right? there's nothing wrong with it, you just seem to be having trouble identifying that sort of thing.

Yes, i'm aware.

I may fix the shading on the hands at some point, most likely after i've done Kelster23's request.

[robowurmz]

All hail and rejoice! Shadowmoon has evolved into *RESPECTED FORUM MEMBER*!

[Akuryou13]

Yes, i'm aware.

I may fix the shading on the hands at some point, most likely after i've done Kelster23's request.not really anything to fix at this point. there's nothing really wrong with it.

All hail and rejoice! Shadowmoon has evolved into *RESPECTED FORUM MEMBER*!uh.....yeah ok......let's not do that again, shall we?

[Metal Alex]

One little thing: Instead of tweaking a picture, simply make the next one applying the advice. In my opinion, you'd improve more like this.

[Akuryou13]

One little thing: Instead of tweaking a picture, simply make the next one applying the advice. In my opinion, you'd improve more like this.a better rule in general, really. if you're going to edit a picture, generally just stick to minor edits.

[Shadowmoon]

a better rule in general, really. if you're going to edit a picture, generally just stick to minor edits.

I'll do that from now on, then.

Anyway, Kelster23's request is done now.

The trident took an hour to do:p

You may notice I haven't made the hand as advanced as before. This is because the holding something hand was a pain to get right, and eventually I had to give up, so I just decided to make the hand simple for now. I will keep trying to get the holding something hand right, and when I do, i'll edit the picture and replace the hand.

Still not completely sure about the shading- I know a bit more, but i still struggle sometimes. However, I am looking at some art threads with art created by popular artists, to get a better example of where it will go.

Small version:


http://i33.tinypic.com/2mo47z4.png


Bigger version:

http://i34.tinypic.com/axcg9e.png


Super_frea is coming soon.

[poninja]

:( didn't like it

well at least the shading is normal trough :/

[Shadowmoon]

I'm considering changing my sigworm. I want a more original sigworm, the sigworm i've got currently is a bit unoriginal and boring.

I'm thinking of a viking worm, but first i'll need to try and attempt a decent viking hat.

I'm also considering doing comic's again soon. The last time i did comics, they were absolutely dreadful:p

These are my old comics: http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36201

If i do do comics again, they will definitely have better art:p

[super_frea]

If i do do comics again, they will definitely have better art:p
And better jokes and a better script I hope :p

[shadowman]

Gradients are evil.
Don't use gradients save for special effects.

[Pyramid]

That trident is way fat
You might wanna use lines for that part...

PS: Satan and Lucifer are not the same person

[Akuryou13]

I'm considering changing my sigworm. I want a more original sigworm, the sigworm i've got currently is a bit unoriginal and boring.the sig in your avatar is reasonably unique. I can easily pick you from a crowd of other characters. if you're wanting more depth, perhaps you could go with the agent moon thing and make him like a master of disguise or give him some power like super speed or something. I mean, if you'd prefer a viking or something go right ahead, just don't feel you need to change it just to stick out more. we don't really have any secret agents around here. closest I can think of is traxada, which is just a matrix clone thing.

as for the picture, the shading is pretty good. the proportions of the trident, however, make it look like the trident is a fair ways in front of the worm (which would throw the lighting off). a trident is perfectly straight on either sides, curves up to the 3 points, but is perfectly straight before reaching the 3 points. it is also FAR skinnier. you'll likely also need to make it taller, but it's hard to tell with it so fat. the worm itsself is well done, but the hair was done the easy way and it can be improved. all that really needs to be done is for the right side of the hair to cover a bit of the head, curving down from the top. if you need an example of what I mean I can provide.

oh yeah, you forgot to shade the eye lids :p

[Shadowmoon]

Gradients are evil.
Don't use gradients save for special effects.

I only used a gradient on the trident there to make it look shiny, which would be pretty hard to do for me if i had to shade it with a brush.

If anyone else says to remove the gradient, i'll remove it and shade it with a brush.

And better jokes and a better script I hope

Don't get too hopeful :p

Yeah, i'll try and do better jokes and better scripts, and this time, they will include sigworms, not plain worms.


I'll remaking the trident soon. I'll make it look thinner, fix the proportion (i think i know how to do that) and make it less curved at the points of the trident. Also, i'll shade the eyelids. Its possible i'll have to remake the fire too.

I'll also make the right side of the hair cover a bit of the head, curving down from the top.

As for my sigworm, I may not make a new one, but keep my old and make a few edits on it.

[McMaster]

I'd say the trident (or however you call it) shape is a bit off on the top. Maybe you should try to make it using tools.

Oh, and how do you use gradients in Flash?

[Plasma]

I'll remaking the trident soon. I'll make it look thinner, fix the proportion (i think i know how to do that) and make it less curved at the points of the trident. Also, i'll shade the eyelids. Its possible i'll have to remake the fire too.

I'll also make the right side of the hair cover a bit of the head, curving down from the top.
Do what MetalAlex suggested: just make a new picture than tweaking old ones.

As for my sigworm, I may not make a new one, but keep my old and make a few edits on it.
First, get rid of the god-awful Space Warrior part of it.

[Shadowmoon]

Do what MetalAlex suggested: just make a new picture than tweaking old ones.


Fine, I'll remake the whole picture again.

I'll do this from now on.

First, get rid of the god-awful Space Warrior part of it.

You just reminded me of something- when I left the forum, I edited my character profile at team17.tk and removed the Space Warrior part of it, as well as editing other stuff too.

So i'll edit my character profile very soon.

Oh, and how do you use gradients in Flash?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=How+to+use+gradients+in+flash&meta=


Most of those should help you. I know how to use gradients now, but I don't plan on using them regularly.

I'd say the trident (or however you call it) shape is a bit off on the top. Maybe you should try to make it using tools

I'll try again with the mouse, and practice a few times. If it is too hard for me, i'll take the easy way out of the situation.

[Kelster23]

That trident is way fat
You might wanna use lines for that part...

PS: Satan and Lucifer are not the same person
Whoo someone who thinks like I do! High Five!

I'd say the trident (or however you call it) shape is a bit off on the top. Maybe you should try to make it using tools.

Oh, and how do you use gradients in Flash?
You DON'T. Unless you already KNOW where to use them.

[McMaster]

I wish Flash 8 worked on Vista. Now I have to use my desktop to use it.

Anyway, when is your next work coming?

[Shadowmoon]

I wish Flash 8 worked on Vista. Now I have to use my desktop to use it.

Anyway, when is your next work coming?

The Kelster23 remake will most likely come tommorow.

The Super_frea picture probably the day after tommorow, or tommorow.

Don't know when exactly because I, (and a lot of other people) don't plan when their next art will come.

These are just guesses.

[Pyramid]

Whoo someone who thinks like I do! High Five!




o/ \o


One hooray for the Fallen Angel :)

[Kelster23]

I wish Flash 8 worked on Vista. Now I have to use my desktop to use it.

Anyway, when is your next work coming?

It does. Mine works anyway.

[Shadowmoon]

I'm going to do a poses sheet soon. I've noticed i've never explored Poses enough, so I'm going to make a poses sheet with a few poses on it.

I'm going to make all the worms myself, there will be no copy and pasting of the bodies whatsoever.

Also, the pose sheet will not have shading. I don't think its really necessary.

For now i present to you, the frea of all frea's:

http://i37.tinypic.com/13yhj4.png

Big version: http://i37.tinypic.com/978wn8.png

Next up is the remake of the Kelster picture. Following that will most likely be the poses sheet.

[poninja]

PS: Satan and Lucifer are not the same person

i dont want to start anoter religion thread but oh well

yes Satan and Lucifer are the same person


I'm going to do a poses sheet soon. I've noticed i've never explored Poses enough, so I'm going to make a poses sheet with a few poses on it.

I'm going to make all the worms myself, there will be no copy and pasting of the bodies whatsoever.

Also, the pose sheet will not have shading. I don't think its really necessary.

For now i present to you, the frea of all frea's:
http://i36.tinypic.com/14wzv2c.png.
well.. pretty good!
and dont use a sipmle line for shading

[Pyramid]

i dont want to start anoter religion thread but oh well

yes Satan and Lucifer are the same person

Well... first and last religious post then

No, they're not. Satan was the first angel and the one who betrayed God by trying to take over his place. Lucifer was the Light Bearer and the morning star. The confusion about the names was due to a mistake of translation made by San Jeronimo. There's a lot of errors on the bible, due to thousands of different translations and interpretations, and this is one of them. Some say that Lucifer was too, a fallen angel, but he wasn't exactly evil as Satan...

http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p223.html

Here you can understand it better...
So, it was just a mistake and nothing else, just like saying that Judas was a big ******* traitor and now it have been proved that he was not...

[Shadowmoon]

I forgot the eyebrows, and forgot to shade the eyelids, so please see my previous post where I edited the pictures.

and dont use a sipmle line for shading

If other people agree i'll consider this.

[Pyramid]

Again, that wand is too fat...

[SupSuper]

It does. Mine works anyway.
It tends to hiccup every now and then though, specially if you drag something for too long.

[Metal Alex]

Let me give a tip: Stuff that the character thinks doesn't look good in a speech bubble. It's like if you always said what you are thinking. Looks a bit odd.

If you include it (Text isn't always needed) try those cloud-shaped thinking bubbles.

[Akuryou13]

the want is a bit thick, though not to the point that it looks especially bad.
the hat is floating behind the head. same as with kelster's hair, it should cover some of the top of the head.

[Kelster23]

It tends to hiccup every now and then though, specially if you drag something for too long.

Yeah or if you drag it to slow, it's weird.

@ Shad. No line tool shading. It's not like they're worm blocks right? Shadows curve with the surface.

[Shadowmoon]

The Super_frea picture will be remade too, with all criticism on the picture took on board.

This is what will happen: If I get 2 comments to fix the picture, I won't remake the picture.

If I get more than 3 or if I get 3, I will remake the picture.


@ Shad. No line tool shading. It's not like they're worm blocks right? Shadows curve with the surface.

Are you and poninja saying that the shading in the Super_frea pic wasn't as curved as the Kelster23 one?

[McMaster]

I guess the only way to avoid shading lines are gradients?

Splapp did once a shading without lines.

[Paul.Power]

I guess the only way to avoid shading lines are gradients?

Splapp did once a shading without lines.Airbrush.

Don't use gradients to shade unless you're really, really sure it won't look rubbish. Really.

[Akuryou13]

I guess the only way to avoid shading lines are gradients?

Splapp did once a shading without lines.the point she was making was that it looks like the lines are just slapped on top rather than actually a part of the worm. they curve in the general shape of the worm, but shadowmoon hasn't quite gotten a grasp of how light works yet.

basically, the highlighted section should be equally thick on all parts of a side of the worm (well, that's true for the generic lighting you're using anyway) where as the darkened part should be something around half of the worm, or in other words the parts that the light wouldn't be able to reach. the only way to learn this, really is to play around with a flashlight or something or watch examples of lighting dynamics in a class or on a video or something. I dunno, it just kinda clicked in my mind so I didn't have to research it. :-/

[Shadowmoon]

I don't fully understand what your saying, but i'll look at other artists threads to see where they put the shading, and play with a torch.

[Akuryou13]

I don't fully understand what your saying, but i'll look at other artists threads to see where they put the shading, and play with a torch.I realized after I finished explaining it that it wasn't something I can explain if you don't already understand it. the best you can do it play with a torch and see how it works. a bent thumb looks surprisingly like a worm, btw.

and keep in mind that unless your torch is ridiculously dim that the lighting will be extreme. mostly just pay attention to WHERE the light is in relation to the object rather than the intensity of the light/shadow.

[McMaster]

Airbrush?

I'll return back to my desktop and check it out.

[Shadowmoon]

Airbrush?

Its not in flash, i've just checked.

Its not in gimp or paint either. I think its in photoshop.

I'll return back to my desktop and check it out.

Too much information:(

[super_frea]

McMaster amuses me :)

Oh and spanks Shadowmoon. But few tips for my sigworm. His hat tends to cover the entire top of his head down to the eyes. It was originally more pointed like the drawing you did, which a more typical wizard hat, but in order to make it more original and reflective of my personality and drawing style I have made it almost ridiculously big and baggy.

Also the wand is a tad chunky. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because that tends to be how I draw it. But I'm not sure it's really in keeping with your drawing style.

[McMaster]

Photoshop... I hope airbrush is in Elements, because it will be included with my future tablet. :)

Anyway, if you accept requests, I request for McMaster with a gold bishop and a weapon shirt.

[Shadowmoon]

Photoshop... I hope airbrush is in Elements, because it will be included with my future tablet. :)

Anyway, if you accept requests, I request for McMaster with a gold bishop and a weapon shirt.

As Squirminator2k once said:

I could buy you a Wacom tablet and you'd probably blame that for your bad art as well.

Honestly, tablets are not going to help you in my opinion at all. I've seen your pencil drawings and they are actually worse than your computer drawings.

Also, gold bishop and weapon shirt isn't enough info. And its bishop hat, not bishop:p

So basically you just want a bishop hat fully coloured gold (which i cannot do, btw) and a weapon
shirt? what do you mean by weapon shirt?


EDIT: Thank you Super_frea, i'll try and make it bigger and baggier in the remake.

[McMaster]

I have already said in Team17.tk that I'm not buying a tablet just to improve my art.

[robowurmz]

I have already said in Team17.tk that I'm not buying a tablet just to improve my art.

Yeah, but that's not here is it?

[Kelster23]

Its not in flash, i've just checked.

Its not in gimp or paint either. I think its in photoshop.

Too much information:(

It is in Gimp. I've used it.

Photoshop... I hope airbrush is in Elements, because it will be included with my future tablet. :)



I don't see why it wouldn't be.

One of the best (ONE) ways learning how to shade is to start with spheres... they're round and after awhile you learn just how light works with curved objects.

@Akuryou: It clicked for me too, even though I started in Grade 7 with light from one side :P

[Paul.Power]

Its not in flash, i've just checked.

Its not in gimp or paint either. I think its in photoshop.



Too much information:(It's in GIMP. Repeating what Kelster said, but hey, repetition is an important part of learning.

[Shadowmoon]

Alrighty then.

Also, i think i now know what Akuryou means. So tommorow, i'll post a picture of a worm, shaded differently to the generic line type shading I do.

[Kelster23]

Just in case you can't find it... :P

http://i37.tinypic.com/21jx9om.png

[Shadowmoon]

Right, I tried to make the shading a little less generic, and not just a curved line. Its a lot more curved this time, and this time the shading creates a shape.


http://i33.tinypic.com/2ho9vs7.png

Big Version: http://i38.tinypic.com/2a4ugh.png

Hopefully the Shading is less generic now.

[McMaster]

I guess that's better.

[Liketyspli]

Magically floating hat behind head.

[Shadowmoon]

Magically floating hat behind head.

I know. I already did the Super_frea picture earlier, its on the previous page.

It wasn't meant to be an improvement of the Super_frea picture. I just got the Super_frea worm, and shaded it again so it was less generic than the shading in my previous pictures.

The remake of Super_frea will be coming soon, but first will be the remake of Kelster23.

[Akuryou13]

bit of an improvement, definitely, but you've still got work to do in the area of lighting :p

[McMaster]

At least the new shading makes the worm look more like 3D. :p

[Shadowmoon]

bit of an improvement, definitely, but you've still got work to do in the area of lighting :p

Where should there be more light?

Also, the remake of Kelster will likely come tommorow.

[Akuryou13]

Where should there be more light?it's not more or less, it's direction and shape. where the light's coming from, how it would interact with the shape and size of the worms based on the angle the light is coming from, the size of the light source, etc.

for a specific example from your own art, the superfrea worm has the correct AMOUNT of light for a basic shading job, and that's what we've been instructing you on. however, super_frea has light coming from below him on the bottom left of the worm. if the light source is the sun then that sliver of light should not be where it is. also, if the light source is the sun, the top of the hat isn't spread enough with light. the sun would hit the entirety of the top of the hat evenly for all the parts of the hat exposed to the air from above.

along the same lines, the shaded areas are slightly misplaced as well. there wouldn't be a shadow on top of superfrea's head from the sun as the sun is above the head. however, there WOULD be a shadow coming from the hat if the hat were on rather than behind his head. the shading on the hat itsself, where the hat bends, would also follow the bend of the hat more as opposed to continuing up to the top of the hat as it does now. along the same token, the shadow on the tail wouldn't curve to the right but rather to the left, toward where the curve of the worm would stop light from hitting that area. if you wanted to get even MORE advanced, the shadow area would actually affect much more of the area facing the viewer if the sun were slightly behind the worm. the basic form for doing this would be to have the curve at the top of the head start to go LEFT as opposed to right, as is what the rest of the worm's body does, and even then it wouldn't start quite as far up on the head as it does in the picture as it currently is.

again, this is a bit more advanced than you need to really worry about at this point too much. honestly, you should be most worried about learning how light works in general for yourself so that you can figure these sorts of things out. where you are now the shading looks fine despite it not being exactly perfect. sure, we can nit-pick to help you out, but before anything I've said in this post will do any good you'll need to study lighting until it clicks in your head.

[Kelster23]

Akuryou's avatar is a perfect example :P

[Shadowmoon]

Ah, so If its a small light source like fire, you'd only use 2 colours, and about half of the worm would be dark and about half would be light.

If its the sun, 3 colours would be used and the worm would have more light and less darkness.

The wand is actually the light source, It just isn't shown on the picture.

[Metal Alex]

Ah, so If its a small light source like fire, you'd only use 2 colours, and about half of the worm would be dark and about half would be light.

If its the sun, 3 colours would be used and the worm would have more light and less darkness.

The wand is actually the light source, It just isn't shown on the picture.

Just in the case of ambient light, you'd need the shading being a gradient, getting darker at narrower spots, where light can't go in that well. As for a particular light source, it basically looks great with just 2 tones. Of course, more lights can add up...

And advanced technique would be using BOTH at the same time... but it's quite hard to start up, so just do one or the other for now.

[Kelster23]

Which is why the blur tool comes in handy because then it gets blended nicely together.

[Akuryou13]

Ah, so If its a small light source like fire, you'd only use 2 colours, and about half of the worm would be dark and about half would be light.

If its the sun, 3 colours would be used and the worm would have more light and less darkness.

The wand is actually the light source, It just isn't shown on the picture.well, it's much more complicated than just that. over time you've got to develope a sense of where the light would hit the worm based on where the light is, how big it is, etc.

for fire, like I have, or any other close-up light source, really; you'd use 3 colors still, but the highlight would be a color that's the same as the color of the light source and it would generally be more intense than the light of something like the sun.

[Plasma]

People who're learning to do proper shading should stick to just two colours to start. Once you get that done properly, then do three.

[Kelster23]

Or do it in black and white.

[Akuryou13]

Or do it in black and white.that would be counter-productive. he's got line art down well enough. the trick now is lighting. you can't do lighting very well with black and white.

[Shadowmoon]

I'll take a break from art for a bit, and in that break i'll learn how lighting works.

[Akuryou13]

http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

I think that was linked to you before, but it's a rather nice lighting thing.

[Kelster23]

that would be counter-productive. he's got line art down well enough. the trick now is lighting. you can't do lighting very well with black and white.

Yeah, you can just do it in different pencil shades. Generally when I say Black and White, I usually mean pencil. And Pencil Shading.

[Akuryou13]

Yeah, you can just do it in different pencil shades. Generally when I say Black and White, I usually mean pencil. And Pencil Shading.why thank you for being completely and utterly useless....

seriously, have you been reading at all?!

[robowurmz]

I think that was linked to you before

Linked by yours truly.

[Kelster23]

why thank you for being completely and utterly useless....

seriously, have you been reading at all?!

Well, I have been reading the posts. I just thought I would suggest learning shading in pencil.

[Akuryou13]

Well, I have been reading the posts. I just thought I would suggest learning shading in pencil.learning to shade in pencil is going to help (when he doesn't grasp the basics of shading in general) HOW, exactly?

[Kelster23]

he can practice at school :p
I learned pencil before color. It's just a suggestion. It can help with getting the different tones and such.

[super_frea]

learning to shade in pencil is going to help (when he doesn't grasp the basics of shading in general) HOW, exactly?

Well it's better to start learning with a pencil, than on a computer tbh.

[Akuryou13]

he can practice at school :p
I learned pencil before color. It's just a suggestion. It can help with getting the different tones and such.so you HAVEN'T been reading. thank you for clarifying that.

I'll leave you to reviewing the thread then. please refrain from offering help until you've done so.

Well it's better to start learning with a pencil, than on a computer tbh.it makes, quite literally, no difference at all. line art would be hugely affected by pencil or computer. coloring would be similarly affected. shading techniques would ALSO be affected, but basic understanding of how light hits an object isn't at all affected by what medium you use. he already understands HOW to color light. the shapes he's using are just fine, it's their placement that he has trouble with, and it matters literally not at all what method you use to place said shapes.

[super_frea]

it makes, quite literally, no difference at all. line art would be hugely affected by pencil or computer. coloring would be similarly affected. shading techniques would ALSO be affected, but basic understanding of how light hits an object isn't at all affected by what medium you use. he already understands HOW to color light. the shapes he's using are just fine, it's their placement that he has trouble with, and it matters literally not at all what method you use to place said shapes.

I disagree. In order GAIN an understanding of how light hits an object, the advice almost anyone would give is to grab say a plant pot, sit down with a pencil and paper and sketch exactly what you see. Yes you can do that with a computer but it is far harder to replicate exactly and doesn't require as much artistic talent.

[Akuryou13]

I disagree. In order GAIN an understanding of how light hits an object, the advice almost anyone would give is to grab say a plant pot, sit down with a pencil and paper and sketch exactly what you see. Yes you can do that with a computer but it is far harder to replicate exactly and doesn't require as much artistic talent.fair enough, but that was in conjunction with the use of a subject to study. I wouldn't have disagreed with that. I was just disagreeing with the idea that using a pencil instead of a mouse would somehow inherently make him better understand light.

[Kelster23]

Yeah what Super_Frea said. Sorry for not making myself clear, but that's what I meant.

[Paul.Power]

Yes you can do that with a computer but it is far harder to replicate exactly and doesn't require as much artistic talent.Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but wouldn't requiring less artistic talent be a good thing for people who have less artistic talent?

[Shadowmoon]

Got a scanner today. A good one. A pencil drawn picture may come soon, but it won't be shaded.

I have read the tutorial, and it has taught me a few things about shading, but I still need to practice a bit more.

[Shadowmoon]

Hand drawn pic. Originally I was going to draw a pic of my new sigworm, but the shirt looked wrong, after attempting it many times.

So its of Plasma. When I know how light works I'll start colouring my pictures with pencils.

Most of my pictures will be hand drawn now.

[Akuryou13]

thoroughly not bad. I'd say you're on equal footing both on and off the computer.