W:A v3.7.0.0 Released

[Deadcode]

Hot on the heels of the Steam release (well... almost), the Worms Armageddon 3.7 update is here!

After the v3.6.31.2b update was released on Steam, and turned out to have some conspicuous bugs, CyberShadow and I launched into a flurry of activity to get a nice stable release ready. One of the important things it needed was a graphics mode in which the Steam overlay worked. But we also worked on things that were not strictly necessary (new localization system... fixing interesting bugs that cropped up along the way...), resulting in a perpetual state of "soon!" ;)

As it turned out, we converged upon a state of real readiness just in the nick of time. Enjoy!

EDIT: The initial release of v3.7.0.0 incorrectly called itself an alpha in the green emulation text. If you downloaded the installer that has an md5sum of ac628698de626c7bbff6a15a4219d952, please re-download the one linked below.

Download Page (http://wa.team17.com/main.html?page=supp&area=upda&file=15)

MD5sums:
cf001ce20c9534cec583e4eaef1c0c6c *WA_update-3.7.0.0_Installer.exe

Fixes
[DC,CS] Compatibility and interoperability
[CS] Windows 8 compatibility has been improved.
[CS] When W:A is run under Windows 8 for the first time, it will offer to configure Windows compatibility flags which should improve compatibility and performance under Windows 8.
[DC] Problem introduced in v3.6.30.0: WA.exe triggered a false positive in some virus detection programs.
[DC] Support was added in v3.6.28.0 for opening land*.dat map files from OnlineWorms and WWP Aqua in W:A's Map Editor. However, three land*.dat maps (land07.dat, land21.dat, and land27.dat) from the Korean small version of OnlineWorms could not be opened.
[DC] With the command-line parameters /getmap, /getscheme, and /getvideo, the use of forward-slashes instead of backslashes in the file's path name was not supported.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.23.0: After connecting to a non-WormNET IRC server that attempted ident authentication, W:A would fail to properly join channels.
[DC,CS] Default files, folders, settings, and persistence of settings
[CS] W:A will now create empty user content subdirectories on start-up if they do not exist.
[CS, DC] W:A will now create a default team file if one doesn't exist.
[CS] The /register command-line parameter will now report errors, and also save W:A's install path.
[DC] When registering its associations, W:A did not override the current "Open With" user choice.
[DC] When a host enabled one of the "test versions" (BattyRope, RacingStuff, etc.), this state was meant to persist both through multiple rounds and new matches, as if the enabled test version were part of the scheme. However, it did not persist through new matches.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.30.0: After returning from a Mission or Training, the default scheme would be incorrectly set in Offline Multiplayer.
[DC] Intrinsic maps were not remembered in Offline Multiplayer mode; every time a Multiplayer screen was entered (including the end of a game round), a selected intrinsic map would be overwritten with a randomly generated map.
[DC] When a replay file using an intrinsic map was launched, the current map (stored in current.thm) was deleted. If this was done while another instance of W:A was open, this would cause the map thumbnail in that instance to become empty (or, in versions before 3.6.29.0, garbled).
[DC] When an online game was joined, and the host loaded a .BIT or .LEV map (without necessarily starting the game), on the client's side, it would result in a state in which part of the representation of the current map was not updated. In this state, if the client-side user entered the Offline Multiplayer screen, the last map loaded by the host in the online game would be shown — but if the user then right-clicked it to open the Map Editor, the incorrect map would be opened.
[DC] After a round of Training, in-game options such as volume and detail level were not being saved.
[DC,CS] User interface
[DC,CS] Compatibility tweaks in the Advanced Options screen that were obsoleted by v3.6.31.2b have been removed.
[CS] The "Slow Frontend Workaround" setting is now a checkbox, which selects between the previous "Off" and "Alternative" settings. The previous "On" setting has the same effect as as "Off".
[DC] When playing on very wide maps (at or close to the map width limit), moving an aiming cursor (e.g. Teleport) to the right edge at high speed (especially when using Shift and/or the middle mouse button) could result in the cursor wrapping around to the left edge.
[DC] In the Map Editor, when moving the mouse out of the map and back in while holding Alt (for fine tuning) the entire time, the coordinate at which the brush cursor re-entered the map did not match the coordinate at which the mouse cursor actually re-entered.
[DC] When moving the mouse over the Map Editor's drop-down list of files, the help text for controls underneath the list box would be shown.
[DC] Despite the wraparound fixes in v3.6.28.0, when playing on very wide maps (at or close to the map width limit), a worm flying off the right edge of the map at very high speed could cause the camera to wrap around to the left edge. A speed sufficient for this was only possible if "no maximum speed" was enabled (e.g. by TestStuff).
[DC] In the Options screen, if a team was created, edited, or deleted, the Language combo box would have the entire list of languages repeated at the bottom of the list (in an A-B-C-A-B-C manner); this would continue to happen each time (A-B-C-A-B-C-A-B-C, etc.), until exiting the Options screen.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.30.0: In an offline game, selecting a weapon using the mouse (in the weapon panel) would cause the next attempt to open the chat panel (to make replay annotations) unsuccessful — the chat would open a little bit and then immediately close itself.
[CS] In-game mouse movement input handling has been improved. Previously, W:A would incorrectly accumulate earlier mouse movement input messages received within the same frame, and in specific circumstances, W:A could get stuck at a black screen when starting a game or restoring after minimizing during a game.
[CS] When the primary DirectDraw surface was lost, it was not being restored correctly. This needlessly slowed down restoring W:A after minimizing by one frame.
[CS] Rendering of background gradients (both in-game and in the main menu) has been optimized.
[DC] Front end buttons were not highlighted instantly upon mouse-over, but rather, only when the mouse was moved from one point on the button to another point on the button.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.19.7: In the Network Host screen, when the Start button was enabled and the host's mouse was over it, and then a remote player turned their light bulb off (disabling the Start button), if the host subsequently moved the mouse, the Start button would be redrawn as if it were enabled, but it would not highlight upon mouseover and would not respond to being clicked. It would go back to normal the next time it was enabled by having all players light up.
[DC] Under Wine, pressing ESC anywhere in the front end would instantly propagate to all windows, usually resulting in an instant exit.

[Deadcode]

[DC,CS] Cosmetic video/audio issues
[DC,CS] Bugs introduced in v3.6.31.2b
[CS] The brush cursors in the Map Editor were incorrectly rendered.
[DC] The phone icon, meant to be displayed only when the chat panel is hidden and a remote player has just said something in the chat, would (under certain conditions) be shown fleetingly when closing the chat panel (with PageUp) or decreasing its height (with Ctrl+Up).
[DC] The water level slider in the Map Editor rendered its blue fill rectangle incorrectly.
[CS] When running the game at a high resolution such as 2560x1600, on some systems, minimisation in-game could sometimes result in a constant flicker when the game was restored.
[DC] In the Steam version of W:A, there was a bug in which custom soundbanks would not be heard in-game, except for the soundbank of the first team in the list of teams. For all other teams, the default soundbank of the local player would be heard.
[DC] Front end checkboxes would sometimes be drawn with a weird-looking solid background, if the checkbox was ticked when the dialog containing it was entered. This was random every time the dialog containing the checkbox was entered, and more likely on some machines than others (but very unlikely on most machines).
[DC] Front end group boxes were improperly restored after minimizing; their text captions were being redrawn in bright white instead of grey.
[DC] The button to open a front end list box would be temporarily erased upon opening certain list boxes for the first time after entering a dialog screen.
[DC] When exiting from the Offline Multiplayer or Network screen into the Main Menu, there would be a single-frame flash of incorrect palette. This had been a latent bug since v3.5 Beta 1, but in v3.6.31.2b became a reliable bug that happened every time.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.19.7: When entering a Next Round screen a second time during a Multiplayer/Online match (i.e. on the second round or beyond) the auxiliary palette of the map thumbnail would be lost. For .BIT and .LEV maps this resulted in a loss of anti-aliasing; for .PNG and intrinsic maps it resulted in a peppering of black pixels over the thumbnail.
[DC] In certain conditions a GDI-style 3D frame could be seen around the W:A logo in the Main Menu. Usually it was only seen upon quitting — for a moment, the border would be visible against an otherwise completely black background when the screen was cleared. However, on some systems the border would be visible at the same time as the logo, clashing with its intended look.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.19.7: In the front end, the help text for a default-disabled button would always be shown immediately upon entering a screen. For example, "You're all set let's go!" would be flashed (or shown) upon entering the Multiplayer or Host screens.
[DC] Activated utilities displayed in the lower-right corner of the screen (in-game) were rendered with black pixels in all four corners. The corners are now transparent.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.23.0: During playback of a game in which "god mode" was enabled, it was impossible to hide the display of crate contents and precise mine fuses, even at the minimum info detail level.
[DC] When W:A started the Intro after 60 seconds of inactivity in the front end ("attract mode"), the menu loop ambient sound continued to play.
[DC,CS] Text and translations
[DC] The Spanish translation has been corrected, improved, and extended by OutofOrder.
[DC] The French translation has been corrected, improved, and extended by LeTotalKiller.
[CS] The Russian translation has been corrected, improved, and extended by CyberShadow and StepS.
[DC] In the Weapon Editor's "cheat" mode, the utilities now have proper help text.
[DC] The description text for the Grenade stage of Basic Training gave incorrect information in its Dutch, German, Portuguese, and Spanish translations.
[DC] Some English and Portuguese text has been corrected.
[DC] The Dutch, French, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, and Swedish translations had some Mission briefings that didn't fit on-screen. Furthermore, briefings that reached the bottom of the text box had their bottom line of text cropped below the baseline.
[DC] The Dutch, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, and Swedish translations of the "Spectral Recovery" mission briefing had extra text in them (compared to the English text) which may have made it easier to complete the mission successfully in fewer attempts.
[DC] Displayed and outputted text
[DC] After clicking the "cheat" button in the Weapon Editor to flip into cheat/utility editing mode, and then clicking it again to flip back, the help text for the top five weapons on the left column were incorrect.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.31.0: In the Map Editor, the help text for the terrain texture button vanished when the button was clicked.
[DC] When changing the current language in the Options screen, the name of a currently selected intrinsic scheme (e.g. "[ Intermediate ]") was not updated.
[DC] The /url command in the front end network screens did not include custom ports in its output.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.30.0: When an unrecognised command with a parameter was entered in a host/join/LAN screen, the error message was incorrect, e.g., the command "/win gold medal" would result in the error message "Unrecognized command /wingold medal".
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.30.0: When copying a string from the chat history in the front end, the Unicode copy of the clipboard string was not being null-terminated. All Windows versions seem to deal with this gracefully, but in Wine, this would sometimes result in some stray characters being inserted at the end.
[CS,DC] Error messages, prompts, and confirmation
[CS] Team file save failures are no longer silently ignored.
[CS] W:A will now display warnings on start-up when files in the current directory are not writable, or if W:A was run "As Administrator".
[DC] Upon starting a Mission / Training exercise, if W:A encountered an out-of-range setting while parsing the .WAM file, it showed an error message dialog — but went ahead and started a game anyway, with an incompletely initialised mission scheme.
[DC] In the Advanced Options screen, the Escape key would instantly exit the screen without saving changes. Now, it prompts the user whether to exit without saving changes.
[CS] In the Advanced Options screen, W:A will now notify the user when changing options that only take effect on the next start of the game.
[DC] The Delete button in the Map Editor did not ask the user for confirmation.
[DC] After loading a PNG with more than 112 colors in the Map Editor, exiting it and clicking OK in the dialog box that prompts the user to dither to 112 colors, there was no immediate visual response to the OK button being clicked. Now, the mouse cursor changes to the Busy state while the dithering is being done.
[CS] Graphics and audio error messages have been greatly improved, and now communicate detailed localised error messages, API function names, error codes and their descriptions.
[CS] Should the graphics system fail to initialise, W:A will now offer to reset the graphics settings to the default safe values.
[CS] When attempting to repair a replay containing a map error that the "Repair" feature is not currently designed to fix, W:A would display a blank message box instead of an error message.
[CS,DC] Text would appear cropped if W:A attempted to display a message box or confirmation box in the front end containing more text than would fit. Message boxes are now sized to fit the entire text.
[DC] Text in some of the Host screens' buttons would appear cropped or inappropriately wrapped in some languages. These buttons are now resized if necessary to fit the text into one line.

[Deadcode]

[DC] Numerical ranges
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.28.0: In the Map Editor, if Placement Holes were adjusted above 255 (up to a maximum of 300), the number would be truncated (it would have 256 subtracted from it), e.g., a count of 300 would become 44. The maximum is now truly 300, but to use a Placement Hole count higher than 255, all players must be using v3.7.0.0 or later.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.28.0: In the Scheme Options editor, the health crate energy was shown incorrectly upon entering the editor if the value was above 127.
[DC] The maximum air retreat time supported by the game logic is 255 seconds, but the Scheme Options editor only allowed it to be adjusted up to a maximum of 127 seconds. Any value higher than 127 (adjusted using an external scheme editor) was shown incorrectly. (Note that the game logic really does only support a maximum of 127 seconds for land retreat time, as opposed to air retreat time.)
[DC,CS] Crashes and memory corruption
[CS] It was possible in theory for W:A to enter an infinite restart loop, where each iteration would start a new process instance and immediately exit. This could happen if W:A reliably crashed before it processed its command-line parameters.
[DC] When an error was encountered creating the output file for /getmap or /getscheme, or the output folder for /getvideo, W:A would crash instead of displaying a proper error message.
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.30.0: If a host selected a map file larger than 5120 bytes, and then switched to a map file 5120 bytes or smaller while the earlier map was in the process of being sent, the host would get an "Out of Memory" error leading to subsequent problems.
[DC] Certain out-of-range numeric values, or too many events, in a .WAM (mission/training) file could cause W:A to crash when loading the corresponding Mission/Training round.
[DC] A team file (WG.WGT) edited using an external editor to have a team name of 17 characters (with no terminating null) could make W:A crash if the corresponding team was teamed in locally in an online game, and then clicked to team it back out. Other bugs may have also resulted from having the team name and/or other strings in the team file of maximum length with no terminating null. These strings are now forced to have a terminating null if they don't already (e.g., the team name is now forcibly limited to a maximum of 16 characters).
[DC] Wine would sometimes crash when audio streams were played in the front end. These streams (in Data\Streams on the CD-ROM or under the main W:A folder in the Steam version) include the intro title music, the Mission/Training win/lose sounds, and the music played at the end of a multiplayer match. The front end now uses the same API as is used for in-game ambient music (also in Data\Streams).
[DC] Minimizing during the Intro resulted in a crash upon restoring.
[CS] If W:A attempted to set an in-game resolution wider than 2048 or higher than 1536 and failed, W:A would get stuck at a black screen directly after the loading pie. The lock-up was due to W:A continuously failing to move the mouse cursor position to the "center" of the expected resolution, which was outside the screen area of the actual fallback resolution (1024×768).
[CS] A potential security vulnerability has been fixed.
[DC] Fixes affecting game logic
[DC] It was possible for a Double Time crate to fall in a scheme with infinite turn time. This was inconsistent with other aspects of the game logic; for example, crates never fall containing contents that are already at infinite ammo in the scheme.
[DC] A bug in the Spanish translation of "N Shots Remaining" caused an exclamation mark to be inserted in front of the number ("Quedan !N Disparos") and caused the message to be queued up, instead of flushing the game comment / morse code text queue as it is supposed to (like weapon selection messages also do). Under contrived conditions, it was possible for this to lead to a desynchronization, if there was a mixture of players, one or more of whom had Spanish selected as their language, and one or more with a different language selected. Besides being fixed, the bug is also now emulated in online games and replays thereof.
[DC] With BattyRope enabled, if a worm was still on the Bungee upon winning the game, its bungee would be detached (to do the victory dance); as a result it would fall down and possibly lose the game instead of winning.
[DC] With BattyRope not enabled, if a worm with a perfectly vertical rope attached was touching the ground, and pending damage on another worm was ready to be displayed, the rope would be detached. (This usually happened with a Ninja Rope that had just been fired straight up.)
[DC] If a player disconnected while their team(s) were frozen, they would stay frozen for the rest of the game (or until drowned). Teams are now automatically unfrozen upon surrendering.
[DC] Bugs regarding Blow Torch / Teleport and explosions / impacts
[DC] A worm using the Teleport (at the stage in which the wavy-light teleportation animation is showing) would have its teleport interrupted, if and when an explosion happened anywhere on the map (out of range of damaging the teleporting worm); if the worm was in the air at the time, it would also lose control. (Note, in WWP, this bug also happens for a worm using the Blow Torch.)
[DC] A worm using the Blow Torch, when hit by an explosion, would not be pushed by the impact. (Note, in WWP this was fixed, at the cost of introducing the above Blow Torch bug.)
[DC] A worm using the Blow Torch, or using the Teleport as described above, when hit by a Dragon Ball, Longbow arrow, or flamelet, would not be pushed by the impact. (For this to happen with a Dragon Ball or Longbow arrow, "Weapons Don't End Turn" would have had to be enabled. With a flamelet, it would be rather subtle, as the first flamelet to hit would cancel the Blow Torch or Teleport, and subsequent flamelets would act normally.)
[DC] Bugs enabled by very high or unlimited maximum speed
[DC] It was possible, despite the wraparound fixes in v3.6.28.0, for a worm to fly off the right edge of the map at very high speed and wrap around to the left edge, if the worm was still in control at the moment it flew off the edge. A speed sufficient for this was only possible if "no maximum speed" was enabled (e.g. by TestStuff).
[DC] If the maximum projectile speed was set to a value >=200 pixels per frame, or unlimited (like TestStuff3), it was possible for an object to fall so fast that it skipped past the water and disappeared without making a Splash sound effect.
[DC] If the above-described glitch happened to a Worm, it would disappear without losing its energy, causing the game to prematurely end the round with an "Avoid Crash" when the game tried to give the current turn to that worm. (Note: The description of this particular "Avoid Crash" has now been edited to be more universally correct and informative.)
[DC] If the maximum projectile speed was set to a value >663 pixels per frame, or unlimited (like TestStuff3), it was possible for a Worm to fall fast enough that its Fall Damage would be improperly calculated, taking a meaningless value in the range 0 to 1820.
[DC] Health bar bugs
[DC] If a team surrendered before collecting a health crate, and the addition of the health to the team's total energy made it at least 25% higher than the best total energy of any team so far in the current round, then the health bar would overflow beyond its maximum length and would be drawn in a glitchy way. In extreme cases, the health bar could even stretch beyond the right edge of the screen.
[DC] If a team was damaged and then collected a health crate while the damage was still pending (i.e. before the damage was visually subtracted), and the addition of the health crate to the team's total energy (with the pending damage already subtracted) made it at least 25% higher than the best total energy of any team so far in the current round, then the health bar would overflow beyond its maximum length and would be drawn in a glitchy way. (This could at most make the health bar slightly less than double what its maximum width is supposed to be.)

[Deadcode]

Changes
[DC] Resolutions are now denoted in all places in the front end as <width>×<height> instead of <width>x<height>.
[DC] The message sent from the host in the Network Host/Join and Next Round screens, informing the players that the game cannot start due to unsupported features (map, scheme, and/or number of worms) by a subset of players who joined, has been streamlined.

Features
[CS,DC] Advanced Options screen
[CS] An option has been added to load WormKit modules on startup.
By convention, WormKit modules are DLL files whose name begins with "wk".
The command-line parameters /wk and /nowk also control this behavior, and take precedence over the Advanced Options setting.
The command-line parameter /wkargs causes W:A to ignore following command-line parameters. This can be used by WormKit module authors to allow passing parameters to WormKit modules.
[CS,DC] An option has been added to use 8-bit color DirectDraw rendering. As in v3.6.31.2b, rendering is performed in software. As a result, the 8-bit color mode is more similar in performance to v3.6.31.2b than it is to earlier versions (which used 8-bit color with hardware rendering).
[CS] An option has been added to use Direct3D rendering. Direct3D may bypass compatibility and performance issues present with DirectDraw, and enable interoperability with software such as the Steam overlay.
It is possible to select using either Direct3D 7 and 9 APIs. The respective DirectX runtime needs to be installed.
Selecting Direct3D 9 (shader palette) causes the palette transformation to be performed on the GPU (using a pixel shader). This lowers CPU usage, but requires Pixel Shader 2.0 support on the GPU.
[CS] An option has been added to control waiting for vertical sync. Lowers latency when disabled, but may cause screen tearing.
[CS,DC] An option has been added to enable additional synchronization between screen refresh and vertical sync ("Assisted vertical sync"). Enabling the option should lower latency.
[DC] An option has been added to enable use of hardware mouse cursors. Currently this option only affects the front end. When enabled it eliminates all perceptible lag between moving the mouse and seeing the cursor move on screen, except for the brush cursor in the Map Editor which is still software-rendered. Enabling hardware cursors results in a much more dramatic difference in this version than it would have before v3.6.31.2b, as software rendering has resulted in higher lag in the front end.
[CS] An option has been added to configure the compatibility flags for Worms Armageddon in the Windows registry. The configured flags improve performance and resolve GUI issues under Windows 8. (Credit for discovering the compatibility flags goes to StepS)
[CS] An option has been added to use a new CommunityServerList.htm file instead of ServerList.htm, which, upon connecting to WormNET, redirects to a third-party server list linking to community WormNET servers.
The game will automatically offer to toggle the option in case of a WormNET connection error.
[DC] Drop-down list box (and combo box) behavior
[DC] When clicking outside of a list box, the mouse click used to be discarded; it now behaves like a normal click on an outside control.
[DC] When right-clicking outside of a list box, the mouse click used to be completely ignored (it wouldn't even close the list box); it now closes the list box and behaves like a normal right-click on an outside control.
[DC] Mousing over controls outside of an open list box now highlights them and shows their help text, the same as if the list box were not open.
[DC] The button that opens and closes a list box now behaves more gracefully.
[DC] If a list box is currently open, the ESC key will now close it instead of exiting the current dialog or screen. (Since v3.6.30.0, this behavior applied to the Multiplayer screen's Scheme combo box and the Map Editor's Map combo box, but no others; now it applies to all combo boxes and drop-down list boxes.)
[DC] Scrollbar buttons now repeat-scroll only while the mouse is inside the button (while the mouse button is held down).
[DC] It is now possible to start an "online" offline game from the Network Host screen without using the light bulb button, if there are no remote players.
[CS,DC] Translatable strings have been moved into external text files.
The language files are installed to the DATA\User\Languages\n.n.n.n directory, where n.n.n.n is the Worms Armageddon version.
User-created language files can be placed in the User\Languages\n.n.n.n directory. This is the recommended location to place new or modified language files, as files in this location will take priority over those under DATA\User\Languages, and are not under risk of being overwritten by a reinstall.
The command-line parameter /langdir can be used to specify one or more directory paths which override the locations where W:A will look for language files. The directories are searched in reverse order (the last specified location will be the first one searched).
The language file format and syntax is as follows:
Each file must use UTF-8 character encoding, and start with the corresponding Byte Order Mark. (The Byte Order Mark is usually invisible in text editors with Unicode support.)
The first line is reserved to indicate the language name (in the corresponding language).
The rest of the file is a list of strings. A string is defined by its identifier (composed from uppercase English letters, digits and underscores), followed by one or more string literals (which are joined together when the file is loaded).
A string literal is a sequence of characters surrounded by double-quotes, and may contain the following escape sequences:
\" - literal "
\\ - literal \
\n - line break
\m - 1.5× height line break (where applicable)
\1 through \9 - placeholder for the first through ninth parameter
\, - substring separator (for randomly-selected substring container strings)
\{<XX, and \{>=XX, - begin conditional block. All characters until \} will be included or omitted, depending on whether the current game version is respectively smaller-than, or greater-than-or-equal the indicated version number (in hexadecimal).
\} - end conditional block
A comment begins with the # character and continues until the end of the line. Comments are ignored by the game.
The set of visible characters is currently limited to Worms Armageddon's custom character table ( http://worms2d.info/WA_character_table ). This limitation may be removed in the future.
Translation improvements and new translations can be submitted for inclusion via the Team17 forum (see section 7.0).
[DC] Changes affecting game logic
[DC] When a Double Time crate is collected during retreat, the remaining retreat time is now doubled.
[DC] When a Double Time crate is collected by an animal, the animal's remaining fuse time is now doubled.

[GreeN]

<3 http://<3

[KRD]

Between our 3.7.0.0 and WRev's latest update, Worms games have had a rather marvellous week, haven't they? Makes you feel sorry for the vast majority of other games out there that never receive anywhere near this much care and love. Also, are we really finally out of beta? End of an era... :eek:

[DC] Health bar bugs
[DC] If a team surrendered before collecting a health crate, and the addition of the health to the team's total energy made it at least 25% higher than the best total energy of any team so far in the current round, then the health bar would overflow beyond its maximum length and would be drawn in a glitchy way. In extreme cases, the health bar could even stretch beyond the right edge of the screen.
[DC] If a team was damaged and then collected a health crate while the damage was still pending (i.e. before the damage was visually subtracted), and the addition of the health crate to the team's total energy (with the pending damage already subtracted) made it at least 25% higher than the best total energy of any team so far in the current round, then the health bar would overflow beyond its maximum length and would be drawn in a glitchy way. (This could at most make the health bar slightly less than double what its maximum width is supposed to be.)


Aaahahaaha, the likes of those always make the change log worth reading. Love it when fix descriptions go into detail like that. :o

[StepS]

Aaahahaaha, the likes of those always make the change log worth reading. Love it when fix descriptions go into detail like that. :o

credit for finding the bug goes to this guy (http://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/glitchy-hp-bar-17948/)

[franpa]

Any chance for a Steam update download? Since Steam will be slow to release it... Or will release candidate 2 be functionally identical? (RC2 users playing final 3.7.0.0 users, without the need to emulate an older version)

Edit: Trend Micro Internet Security 2013 treats the http://wa.team17.com/main.html?page=supp&area=upda&file=15 download as suspicious when you try to run it. It doesn't outright block it though, just warns that it is suspicious and gives the option to prevent it from opening or allowing it to proceed with opening (After double clicking it).

Edit: Does this fix the issue of Steam overwriting the Team file when verifying the integrity of the game?


Edit: Below relates to Release Candidate 2.

No more error beep when pressing Esc after the final blow has been dealt in a game, is this intentional? It was just a neat way of knowing if the game was over before it subtracted the health/actually ended. And there is still that bug where activating a chat input box in the Front-end, minimizing and then restoring the game, yields the chat input box looking active but no keyboard input registers... until you click it.

[raffie]

And now the long wait until PX is updated to work with this WA version :eek:

[StepS]

Edit: Trend Micro Internet Security 2013 treats the http://wa.team17.com/main.html?page=supp&area=upda&file=15 download as suspicious when you try to run it. It doesn't outright block it though, just warns that it is suspicious and gives the option to prevent it from opening or allowing it to proceed with opening (After double clicking it).
SmartScreen on Windows 8 also proposes to continue after a pop-up

And there is still that bug where activating a chat input box in the Front-end, minimizing and then restoring the game, yields the chat input box looking active but no keyboard input registers... until you click it.
that's not a bug, but rather how Windows gives control to the new foreground window.

[Extremist2]

Excellent work, as always. But hasn't this been the longest gap between major releases? :-/

Also, I'm curious - is the game still playable with its original minimum hardware specs?

[SgtFusion]

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3305/awwwyeahsmall.png
Yes!! :D

[Phantom]

are we really finally out of beta? End of an era... :eek:


That's how I feel too!
This is great news, though wkLocalizer and ProjectX aren't usable with this version (though I know PX will be eventually).

[StepS]

Localizer isn't needed anymore, however some features such as editor's GUI could be ported to the new format

[Phantom]

Localizer isn't needed anymore, however some features such as editor's GUI could be ported to the new format

How do I uninstall the Localizer then?

[TheTrouble]

What about Steam update, when we could expect it?

[Muzer]

How do I uninstall the Localizer then?
Deleting, moving or renaming wkLocalizer.dll so it doesn't start with "wk" should do it.

[Pac-Man]

The bug with the wrong help text of the team list when I'm not the host still exists (it's the same as the one for the players list, obviously):
http://pacman.highfsb.com/screen0000.png

The German translation is using a too long string for one setting: "Frontend" is cut away. Luckily I can fix the many errors in the German translation now by myself as I did with wkLocalizer before.
http://pacman.highfsb.com/screen0001.png

I also think I got a continously black screen upon joining a game with a very large map (that was obvious since I had some mouse movement lag (software mouse) at entering) (DX9 shader). I still heard sounds and could also hear the alert when pressing Escape, but couldn't see anything until accepting that leaving message popping up and then being back in the lobby.

Is it intended that a camera lock of Ctrl+Alt+Scroll is not remembered for the next game session?

The new renderer (?) causes a weird behavior when Alt+Tabbing, the W:A window disappears somehow immediately out of the Alt+Tab list, so you have no way tabbing back to it.

Not that you said anything else, but the alien glitch still exists :P http://pacman.highfsb.com/aliend_at_11m40sec.WAgame (pretty weird scenario this time though lol)

[Muzer]

The bug with the wrong help text of the team list when I'm not the host still exists (it's the same as the one for the players list, obviously):
http://pacman.highfsb.com/screen0000.png

The German translation is using a too long string for one setting: "Frontend" is cut away. Luckily I can fix the many errors in the German translation now by myself as I did with wkLocalizer before.
http://pacman.highfsb.com/screen0001.png

Once you've finished, why not submit your modified file so that the improvements may be included?

I also think I got a continously black screen upon joining a game with a very large map (that was obvious since I had some mouse movement lag (software mouse) at entering) (DX9 shader). I still heard sounds and could also hear the alert when pressing Escape, but couldn't see anything until accepting that leaving message popping up and then being back in the lobby.

Is it intended that a camera lock of Ctrl+Alt+Scroll is not remembered for the next game session?

The new renderer (?) causes a weird behavior when Alt+Tabbing, the W:A window disappears somehow immediately out of the Alt+Tab list, so you have no way tabbing back to it.

Not that you said anything else, but the alien glitch still exists :P http://pacman.highfsb.com/aliend_at_11m40sec.WAgame (pretty weird scenario this time though lol)

Yeah, alien is kept intentionally, since it's pretty amusing ;)

[Pac-Man]

Once you've finished, why not submit your modified file so that the improvements may be included?

yeah but first i write me a small tool finding the untranslated strings in the german file... since they're simply left out

[Phantom]

Deleting, moving or renaming wkLocalizer.dll so it doesn't start with "wk" should do it.

Oh ok thanks, renamed it. :)

[LTKiller]

French translation doesn't load anymore; here's the error message:
"Error loading "French" language file: Error on line 2331: Unknown character in conditional"

(It shows up after the update has been installed, on W:A start-up or when loading French language in the Options menu.)

[Deadcode]

French translation doesn't load anymore; here's the error message:
"Error loading "French" language file: Error on line 2331: Unknown character in conditional"

(It shows up after the update has been installed, on W:A start-up or when loading French language in the Options menu.)
Here is a "hotfix" for that problem. Unzip French.txt from the attached ZIP file into DATA\User\Languages\3.7.0.0 under your Worms Armageddon folder, overwriting the existing French.txt file.

Or, you can just open French.txt and do a global replace of "\{>=EE," with "\{>=0EE," (without the quotes).

[franpa]

Any chance for a Steam update download? Since Steam will be slow to release it...
What about Steam update, when we could expect it?

No answer :/ they've even demonstrated they can make a Steam patch as that's what they did for Release Candidates.

Edit: And fully aware of how much of a twit I sound like. Just want the update :/

[CyberShadow]

Steam updates (via Steam's automatic update mechanism) are out of our hands.

[franpa]

Well yeah but Deadcode (at the very least) demonstrated that updates can be supplied without the use of the Steam's automatic update mechanism. They had release candidates that were tied to Steam and were supplied without the use of Steam.

Edit: So the fans just have to wait and twiddle there thumbs while none-steam users don't? Because you're continuing to refuse to release an update for Steam users to download and install without the aid or requirement of Steam? Good PR diminishing the longer you guys wait. Already been over 24 hours without the update which you have demonstrated can be packaged and released for us before Steam gets there act together.

Steam has already demonstrated no care in the world about it. They released numerous updates for products today none of which are for this game and you seem to be following suit.

[CyberShadow]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to achieve here. Steam updates are out of our hands (the RC installers were a temporary testing aid, and cannot be published or redistributed). You would need to direct your voice towards Team17, as we do not communicate with Valve directly. I've already uploaded the code, so there's nothing left for us to do but wait.

BTW, we're still not getting paid for it, so talk about PR isn't very meaningful when you're doing something as a hobby.

[TheTrouble]

Why don't you supply steam update here on forum or that is forbidden by Team 17?
I wanted to update steam version but the patch says I shouldn't.

[Pac-Man]

wait, is it new that after selecting a target for lets say my homing pigeon and then click again, i can choose a new target? didnt a click previously did nothing after i chose my target?

[Deadcode]

wait, is it new that after selecting a target for lets say my homing pigeon and then click again, i can choose a new target? didnt a click previously did nothing after i chose my target?
This feature has basically been around forever... probably since Worms 2 (can't get it working at the moment so I'm not sure), definitely since W:A v3.0.

You used to be able to do the same thing by pressing Home, but that's currently broken due to the modified behavior of that key.

[franpa]

Since this is no longer beta, will it take prime real estate on the official W:A website instead of playing second fiddle to the v3.00 patch?

[LTKiller]

This feature has basically been around forever... probably since Worms 2 (can't get it working at the moment so I'm not sure),


Yeah, just tested, this feature is present in Worms 2.

[Pac-Man]

lawl
and i always reselected the homing pigeon for renewing my target
i'm an idiot

[LTKiller]

lawl
and i always reselected the homing pigeon for renewing my target
i'm an idiot

You're not the only one ;)

[DonMega]

nice list of fixes there, just wish there was finally a fix for the bug when swinging off cavern map with rope /antisink won't work and worm will just fall twice. it's pretty much guaranteed to happen, unless u disconnect rope before going at the edge of the map.

this sort of thing can happen apparently in water too rarely, but the specifics of that is less known to me

i'm not exactly sure if you guys can do anything about the actual game mechanics that would change this, or if it's the wormkit that's faulty

[StepS]

nice list of fixes there, just wish there was finally a fix for the bug when swinging off cavern map with rope /antisink won't work and worm will just fall twice. it's pretty much guaranteed to happen, unless u disconnect rope before going at the edge of the map.

this sort of thing can happen apparently in water too rarely, but the specifics of that is less known to me

i'm not exactly sure if you guys can do anything about the actual game mechanics that would change this, or if it's the wormkit that's faulty

actually this is about RubberWorm, however its nature is interesting and could be related to W:A itself. Seeing how even the PX antisink fails to restore a worm outside that coordinate.
But fixing any physics bugs requires version emulation to be compatible with older replays and players, which isn't something RubberWorm has yet

[franpa]

Still no update for Steam!

Edit: Oh and on unrelated note, still no /t command for more quickly getting the time.

[Pac-Man]

When minimizing the snowy frontend and restoring it, there are much less snowflakes flying around (possibly the number of stars which are there if it's not christmas).
Can be fixed by going into the options menu and returning.

[TheWario]

I have a problem with WA. After changing renderer from DirectDraw to Directx 9.0 with pixel shader I can't see anything after running WA.exe. I have even some problems with quitting the game to desktop.

Combinations like ALT+TAB, CTRL+ALT+TAB, CTRL+SHIFT+ESC don't do antyhing. My monitor detects signal from GPU (blue light) but I can't even show up OSD of the monitor, it's just black without any backlight.

After about a 1-2 minute I finally get to destkop and WA process isn't there.

I tried this few times and once I got to local multiplayer option somehow. From there I exited to first menu and went to Advanced options to change to DirectDraw. It worked fine. Then I changed to Directx 7. It also worked fine. Then went for DirectX 9.0 (CPU) and it is the same story as before...

I would like to know is there a config file which I can edit to revert back to DirectDraw to play WA again?

Of coure, I can help with any testing regarding this bug.

Some info:
WA was updated from 3.69 version to 3.7. Had older WormKit which isn't working now with 3.7. This is non-steam, cd version.

My specs:
Windows 7 x64 Professional with all updates
resolution 1920x1080@120Hz
c2d E8600@3,33Ghz (stock)
GeForce GTX 560 (310.70)
LCD Iiyama G2773HS (27"@120Hz)

[StepS]

yes, a reg file from \Tweaks\ subdirectory will apply what you want.
btw, do you use multiple monitors?

[CyberShadow]

See here: http://worms2d.info/Troubleshooting_FAQ#The_screen_turns_off_or_flicke rs_continuously

[RongYao]

Thanks for the amazing work! It runs flawlessly here! Really amazing news. ;)

[TheWario]

Thanks for the informations guys. Didn't see that FAQ page, thought it was unique ;-)
And yes, I forgot to mention that I also have my TV hooked up to second DVI of my GPU so it counts as multiple monitor setup (it was turned off though).

Finally, after few configuration testes, I have working WA with Direct3d 9 (shader). It looks amazing and ALT+TABS quicker then FireFox window (thanks devs!!).

What I did was quite simple. In compatilibity tab under preferences of WA.exe I enabled "Turn off desktop compositions" and "Turn off visual compositions".
In game advanced options I just enabled "Slow frontend workaround" and "Use hardware cursor".

I turned off vertical sync cause I have 120Hz LCD so no terring for me. Also that API manual sync was just bad, it looked laggy. That API manual sync was only good for that background particles, now they fly like crazy (nice snow storm there ;-) not slowly falling down.

Again thanks for those community updates. Hopes this game arrives properly on Steam as an standalone title not bonus and gets attention it deserves!!

(Fan of Worms since Worms2 in 98)

[CyberShadow]

Assisted vsync probably won't work as intended with a refresh rate of 120Hz right now.

[StepS]

if only someone with multiple monitors and Windows 8 (not 7) could test it...

[Pac-Man]

steps pls
http://pacman.highfsb.com/meme.jpg

[raffie]

That's funny coming from the T17 forum spambot...

[TheWario]

Sorry StepS. Had Win8 for 20min when it came on MSDNAA and uninstalled (really MS, tiles on mouse based PC?). Win8 should be just an optional patch for Win7, nothing really special in it only this ****ty metro interface.

[Pac-Man]

:( i'm often the most irrelevant person in history

[Pac-Man]

Does this happen because of the messed up controls in the channel screen?
http://pacman.highfsb.com/lolmess.png

[franpa]

Still no update for Steam!

[CyberShadow]

Team17 have closed their offices for the holidays.

[Kayz]

Hey there.

Peja posted a link to a replay with an underwater girder still being there, not getting erased by water rising.

First round at 37 minutes he shoots homing, but it hits an invisible girder under water :/

Does this have to do with 3.7?

http://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-134430/

[Forceh]

Well the holidays are over now, any news on whether or not this is going to be uploaded to the Steam servers?

[DaveyBoi]

Cool bug!

That reminds me, I found a bug the other day too. Occurs in 3.7 and the previous version (x.x.x.31). Doesn't affect gameplay and it's probably been known for eons. Gravestones sink when hit with a longbow.

Kinda dumb replay here.. fast playback recommended. I don't have invincible land unlocked yet :o

[Rabbit234]

WA works really nicely with the new update on Windows 8. Great performance and no problems in switching the game, since you have to do this using the interface by Escaping and press "Minimize Game". In the menu you can move your mouse into the lower left corner and click button1. Multiple monitor doesn't make any problems.
I just would ask for a new version of wkKeyremap. I started familiarize to press CRTL to change between rope and parachute. :D

[GreeN]

Ya that's quite an old one, DaveyBoi; arrows pass straight through the grave when in 'projectile' mode, but become part of the terrain once attached to existing terrain, trapping the graves collision mask inside it. As far as I know, any object trapped in terrain loses its ability to collide and promptly finds itself in the water.

[StepS]

Multiple monitor doesn't make any problems.

and you're using Direct3D 9, right?

[Pac-Man]

I can still click and visually change the options in the cheat window when I'm not the host.

[Pac-Man]

---------------------------
Error while sending crash report
---------------------------
Failed to connect
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------


k. then not

[Squirminator2k]

It's been nearly a month, and despite having the code in hand Team17 still haven't uploaded this patch to Steam. The last I heard getting the patch up on the Steam version had been "raised internally" but beyond that sod-all has happened.

Between this and the, frankly, appalling support Team17 have given their games over the last decade, I'm having a tough time recommending Team17 games to my friends. I bought Worms Revolution for all three systems. Patches for the two console versions erased my save data, while the PC version has some horrendous graphics glitches that were brought up during the closed beta and which have still not been fixed. There are still bugs in Worms Reloaded that haven't been addressed that, like Worms Revolution, were brought up way back during the beta.

I think Worms Revolution will likely be my last purchase from the company for the foreseeable future.

This isn't a slight against CyberShadow or Deadcode - they've been working very hard keeping WA up to date over the last decade - but let's face it, if it were left in Team17's hands we'd still have a version of WA that would be unplayable in anything greater than Windows XP. No one has been more vocal in their support of the company over the last decade than I have, but I've given up. Team17 is not the company it was fifteen years ago.

[jsgnext]

^
Could not agree more...just look at wwp...I used to prefer wwp back then, but the lack of screen resolutions, support and compatibility forced my way here...
Deadcode and Cybershadow for T17 president! (president and vice respectively)...they didnt only keep the game updated, they supported the community and moderated the subforums too!

Tl;Dr: I dont care if we get WA 4.0 in 2045...I love you guys and you deserve a diamond gold covered medal for you work...

[franpa]

It's been nearly a month, and despite having the code in hand Team17 still haven't uploaded this patch to Steam. The last I heard getting the patch up on the Steam version had been "raised internally" but beyond that sod-all has happened.

Between this and the, frankly, appalling support Team17 have given their games over the last decade, I'm having a tough time recommending Team17 games to my friends. I bought Worms Revolution for all three systems. Patches for the two console versions erased my save data, while the PC version has some horrendous graphics glitches that were brought up during the closed beta and which have still not been fixed. There are still bugs in Worms Reloaded that haven't been addressed that, like Worms Revolution, were brought up way back during the beta.

I think Worms Revolution will likely be my last purchase from the company for the foreseeable future.

This isn't a slight against CyberShadow or Deadcode - they've been working very hard keeping WA up to date over the last decade - but let's face it, if it were left in Team17's hands we'd still have a version of WA that would be unplayable in anything greater than Windows XP. No one has been more vocal in their support of the company over the last decade than I have, but I've given up. Team17 is not the company it was fifteen years ago.
I feel pretty much the same way, however I only own PC copies of the games. W:Reloaded, W:UM and Worms Golf were free (For participating in beta testing) so I feel bad being negative about it all, and I bought a copy of Worms: Revolution. All of the games feel very unpolished, rushed, poorly optimized and poorly maintained and on top of all that the games are lacking in features that were in games they themselves had made years ago.

Sure there games don't cost as much as they used to, but the difference in product quality is staggering.

[keiyakins]

It's been nearly a month, and despite having the code in hand Team17 still haven't uploaded this patch to Steam. The last I heard getting the patch up on the Steam version had been "raised internally" but beyond that sod-all has happened.

It's not happening. One week I can understand. Two would be pushing it, but it WAS just before the holidays, I'd live. It's been over three. It's never happening. And considering that the only reason I'm able to play AT ALL currently is that I'm comfortable with regedit, that's absolutely *terrible*.

[GreeN]

Considering 3.7 was released a few days before christmas and we're only a week and a half past the holidays ending, I can't say that this particular situation has me too upset.

[HeroHolger]

many many thx to the developer.

This patch put me again in the worm mood. So i installed it and i can play it finally under Windows7 without pressing all the time shift+Print and without any false colours.


So maybe i will get back for some times in the w:net.



:):):):)

[Squirminator2k]

Considering 3.7 was released a few days before christmas and we're only a week and a half past the holidays ending, I can't say that this particular situation has me too upset.

Right, but Team17 have the code. They have it. The 3.7 code has been delivered to them, and all they need to do is (I assume) compile it using the Steam dev tools and upload it. I've no idea how much time that takes, but I've seen developers drop updates to their games on Steam sometimes days apart from each other. Sometimes multiple updates on the same day.

Considering the only official line I've been able to get out of the company is that putting the update on Steam has been been "raised internally" that doesn't especially fill me with confidence.

I realize Team17 is only a small company. They only have so many people who can work on so many projects at a time. That is, in point of fact, one of the things I love about the company. They've never let themselves be eaten by larger corporate entities, and where possible they've tried to put their own desires above the requests of publishers ("Shake Your Coconuts" not withstanding). But their biggest problem is, and always has been, their post-release support. It's abominable.

I thought - I hoped - that moving away from large publishers and putting out their own stuff again would change things for the better, but exactly nothing has changed. Worms Reloaded has bugs that, in all probability, will never be fixed. Recent updates for Worms Revolution on the 360 and the PS3 have erased user data. DLC for Ultimate Mayhem has only just been made available on the PC version of the game (though to their credit the Single Player DLC has been made available for free).

I don't want much. All I want is for Team17 to hold me, like they did by the lake at Naboo. Is that too much to ask?

[DrMelon]

Is that too much to ask?

Apparently. It seems more and more as if T17 wish to completely forget that the fans of their older titles even exist. Given the outrageous amount of feedback for later games which has, and probably always will, boil down to "We want Armageddon, more of it" you'd think they would at least try to appeal to us.

Keep up the good work DC & CS - without you working your asses off we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[Squirminator2k]

Well this is interesting. According to Team17 on Twitter:
The patch wasn't created by Team17. We are awaiting a response from those who created it.
I wonder if someone could provide some clarification on this point, as it does rather seem to contradict what we've been told by CyberShadow.

[CyberShadow]

Unbelievable. Gmail decided that Team17's email was spam!

I'll get on this ASAP. Thanks, Ben!

[Squirminator2k]

No worries!

[franpa]

Unbelievable. Gmail decided that Team17's email was spam!

I hate it when email services do that to important stuff :/

[Pac-Man]

Team17 puts stuff about potency pills in e-mails about their games? :o

[StepS]

Team17 put's stuff about potency pills in e-mails about their games? :o

loooool :o

[Diablodoc]

By the way, WormKit and RubberWorm are updated for 3.7 afaik.

I think I should attempt to clarify a little bit to you guys about many companies' (and maybe Team17's) policies and goals, and as to why they do as they do about their games. I see some of you are very confused about it.

Please note that this is not information I can guarantee apply for Team17 in particular.
And it does not apply to Deadcode and CyberShadow, as well as the rest who I respect and thank for having contributed so much already.

Companies don't like games they can't make money on. Worms Armageddon can't be made too much money on. A bit, but not enough.

Q: Why haven't they used the good, old 2D engines for their new games?
A: Because it's more effort for them to use those engines, when they are not even optimized for the new systems, nor offer as neat developer tools, and are twice as buggy and stuck at their own level. That, and who would want to stick with the same 1999 graphics and physics forever?

Q: Why do they neglect their old games to sell new ones?
A: Because their business selling Worms Armageddon is small. They can only sell it so many times. But if they keep releasing and prioritizing new games, they have a chance to earn a lot more.

Q: Why do their games lack features that were in the old games?
A: Because giving you a complete product means that you won't need the next; they'd rather split the games up in DLC packages and expansion packs, and sell you each and every feature, than to make one sale per person. Besides, a sequel would be pointless if the prequel was complete (As Worms: Armageddon more or less is).
They've got Hats in the new games too. Doesn't this strike you as a way to make profit, just as the hats are profit for Valve in TF2?

As it stands now, Team17 has no realistic reason to go back to updating W:A.
Infact, it's in their better interest that W:A dies almost completely, and that all attention is towards their newer games.
However, that would upset their fans, and end up making many people not play their games at all, seeing as the newer games are crap anyway; so they'd end up losing money.
It's better to half-assedly treat the W:A community in the cases they must, to keep the most stubborn players - and to make it more convenient for the rest to purchase their new games.

Regardless, keep in mind Team17's limited capacity. They might not be able to update W:A whether they want to or not, given their new projects. So it'd be unfair to judge them too fast. The fact that they gave Deadcode and CyberShadow the rights to do what they do, is something to be grateful for, as many companies do not.

It's a shame that working in a company tends to make you less inventive in the ways that matter the most. As a "wannabe" game designer, I do (like many others, probably) already have ideas that would make Team17's games better and also a lot more profitable at the same time, without screwing players over and without ruining the potential for sequels and DLCs. That also implies new gamemodes. But that isn't going anywhere.

Regardless, I hope and trust the patch to be released for Steam in a few days. Thanks Deadcode and CyberShadow for your much appreciated work :) I'm not gonna get tired of this game, especially not after getting RubberWorm.

[Balee]

By the way, WormKit and RubberWorm are updated for 3.7 afaik.

WormKit isn't updated for 3.7, it is integrated into it. In a sense.

As a "wannabe" game designer, I already have ideas that would make Team17's games better and also a lot more profitable at the same time, without screwing players over and without ruining the potential for sequels and DLCs. That also implies new gamemodes.

Yeah, yeah, don't we all? :P

[Diablodoc]

Yeah, yeah, don't we all? :P

Apologies for bad phrasing. It's corrected now. And yeah, I'm not unique about good ideas.
However it do is rare that these "good, cool ideas" are profitable in the long run and take company policy, safety and future into account. Let's hope some ideas of such nature these hit Team17 sometime soon.

[raffie]

I think I might add to Diablodoc's post that Team 17's problem is that (nearly) every new game they make is in direct competition with their previous one and so from a business point of view I would think it's not hard to decide where you'r going to use your resources (the game taht's gonna make you money ;))

Sure all we want is the ultimate Worms game and then we can go on and play that and never look back, and put T17 out of business xD

[BethanyTeam17]

Unbelievable. Gmail decided that Team17's email was spam!

I'll get on this ASAP. Thanks, Ben!

Also, Squirminator2k, I've just noticed your previous posts... The update was communicated to a member of staff who is no longer with us, so unfortunately we were unaware of a patch until we saw this post and emailed CyberShadow.

But their biggest problem is, and always has been, their post-release support. It's abominable ... Worms Reloaded has bugs that, in all probability, will never be fixed. Recent updates for Worms Revolution on the 360 and the PS3 have erased user data. DLC for Ultimate Mayhem has only just been made available on the PC version of the game (though to their credit the Single Player DLC has been made available for free).

Whilst I understand you're annoyed about this issue/the past please see above. Also, the Xbox 360 issue was unfortunately an issue linked to the clock/save file. This was not caused by an update, and we have since patched this (in a patch released 21.12.12) and added implemented functionality for users to be able to reunlock their chosen class formation and Single Player progress.

We're also currently on our fourth patch for Worms Revolution PC, which has seen the addition of multiple player profiles, support for multiple pads, bigger team sizes, multiple accessories, more customisation options for game styles, landscape editor improvements and various bug fixes along the way.

Not to mention the other projects we're still supporting and creating.

The Ultimate Mayhem DLC was intentionally delayed as we were in talks with Intel regarding some issues with the game. As a result, we've offered one of the packs for free (as you mentioned) as a goodwill gesture for all of those who waited.

[Pac-Man]

are you also going to add a "Buy" button for the Worms Armageddon on Steam? just look at LOTS of these crying people:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/217200/discussions
now thats much!

you just lost about 10000 pounds or moar
now thats much xS

[franpa]

Q: Why haven't they used the good, old 2D engines for their new games?
A: Because it's more effort for them to use those engines, when they are not even optimized for the new systems, nor offer as neat developer tools, and are twice as buggy and stuck at their own level. That, and who would want to stick with the same 1999 graphics and physics forever?

Q: Why do they neglect their old games to sell new ones?
A: Because their business selling Worms Armageddon is small. They can only sell it so many times. But if they keep releasing and prioritizing new games, they have a chance to earn a lot more.

Q: Why do their games lack features that were in the old games?
A: Because giving you a complete product means that you won't need the next; they'd rather split the games up in DLC packages and expansion packs, and sell you each and every feature, than to make one sale per person. Besides, a sequel would be pointless if the prequel was complete (As Worms: Armageddon more or less is).
They've got Hats in the new games too. Doesn't this strike you as a way to make profit, just as the hats are profit for Valve in TF2?

I know you said that those points may not necessarily relate to Team17 but I'd just like to point out that only point #2 is remotely relevant.

For point #1 Cybershadow and Deadcode have presumably already made leaps and bounds in to reorganizing and documenting the engine/source code over the last decade or so. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by developer tools but it is vastly easier to install custom maps and schemes and stuff in W:A and vastly easier to select them while in the game. Not only that but the map editor is vastly superior in usability and lack of clunkyness.

For Point #3 every new game continues to lack notable features even with all the DLC installed and all the patches made available since after-market support was supposedly dropped. (In comparison to Worms 2, W:A & WWP and in some cases even the older games in the series)

[keiyakins]

And notably they still sell Worms United and Worms 2, just not Armageddon or World Party.

[StepS]

And notably they still sell Worms United and Worms 2, just not Armageddon or World Party.

exactly this

[Extremist2]

I wouldn't complain about new T17 games lacking features if the basic gameplay was good. But unfortunately their idea of a better game nowadays is "more features" rather than "a better core experience". A lot of other video game companies think this way too.

Halo 1 doesn't have console online play, armour abilities, or Forge mode, but it's still a blast to play.
Burnout Revenge isn't open world, but the gameplay is way more frantic than Paradise.
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts ... 'nuff said? :p

[Diablodoc]

I know you said that those points may not necessarily relate to Team17 but I'd just like to point out that only point #2 is remotely relevant.

For point #1 Cybershadow and Deadcode have presumably already made leaps and bounds in to reorganizing and documenting the engine/source code over the last decade or so. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by developer tools but it is vastly easier to install custom maps and schemes and stuff in W:A and vastly easier to select them while in the game. Not only that but the map editor is vastly superior in usability and lack of clunkyness.

For Point #3 every new game continues to lack notable features even with all the DLC installed and all the patches made available since after-market support was supposedly dropped. (In comparison to Worms 2, W:A & WWP and in some cases even the older games in the series)

What I mean by developer tools, is not the ingame editor and the stuff you and me know of - that's "end-user tools".
It's the actual "developer tools", that the developers use to create and evolve their games from. The backend of Worms Armageddon, the full source code, the "engine".

These aspects are what draws the line for how far your game can reach. It doesn't help sitting on a good idea if your game engine is so outdated and so poorly designed that it doesn't even allow you to evolve it without major problems.
The structures of Windows, the graphics cards, and a lot of other technologies have changed so much that fixing it is a pain. Most developers can rely on new-fashion game engines to do the job for them, engines or at least modules (OpenGL, DirectX) that do 99% of the work for them. Technologies that are constantly updated by their respective developers.
In W:A's case, the game was already made in way old technology. It's a miracle there is a 3.7 patch at all.

Sometimes, they can develop that engine to new levels. But sometimes, your only choice is to start over. I'm not sure what they have done about it, but keeping everything at "Worms Armageddon" backend level, is suicide for anything outside that scope for making games. Especially if it's so buggy that you have to do heavy rewrites anyway. If you check the updates done to W:A lately, you'll see that there are a lot of "workarounds". Part may be because the game simply isn't fit to run in today's environments. And in those cases, workarounds are the most realistic short-term solution.

As for #3, I'm not talking about post-release support, bugs and the like; I'm talking about avoiding features that were already there in previous games, and instead saying "Actually.. I'll sell this as a DLC. And get money. Yeah, let's do that." and having their design strategies approach that point of view.

For all we know, the top-heads might have considered Steam as a distribution platform halfly because of the userbase, half because of the easy DLC possibility - but that remains just a possibility.

The reason they don't sell W:A but instead sell W2 and WU, might be because W:A and WWP are too complete and satisfying on their own, that they directly compete with future games and DLCs.

[Squirminator2k]

I walk to apologize if I came across as a little... well, I can't use the word I want to use but let's say it rhymes with hissy earlier in this thread. I've been having a rough week, and I took it out on something stupid. Still, it did apparently yield some results, but I regret my attitude in earlier posts.

[Diablodoc]

I walk to apologize if I came across as a little... well, I can't use the word I want to use but let's say it rhymes with hissy earlier in this thread. I've been having a rough week, and I took it out on something stupid. Still, it did apparently yield some results, but I regret my attitude in earlier posts.

No worries ;)

Still no build yet for Steam. /wrist

I can't recall if this patch introduces any new actual features that I'll notice or use. I hope it does.

Deadcode or someone should make a feature to let you import custom level backgrounds in-game, along with a level. That'd make the game a whole lot more immersive.
Also the ability to force the camera not to scroll the screen, like in a cavern being fixed. I'm tired of having to move the camera back so I can see myself and the only two enemies left in the same image. It's not like I'd fire in any other direction than my enemies. This begs for a new camera mode, and/or a hotkey to put the camera that way. It's better if the camera always tries to get as many as possible worms in a single image, whilst biasing towards enemies.

[Extremist2]

This begs for a new camera mode, and/or a hotkey to put the camera that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9xqlboHuiU#t=0m54s

;)

[Diablodoc]

I think this camera idea would be good, though. It'd make the game a whole lot easier:

Defaultly the camera focuses on the active worm, but Worms on either side will bias the camera for that direction.

If there are enemies to your right and not to your left, the Camera will fit you + as many of those worms as possible in the view.
Whilst if there are 2 enemies on your right and one on your left, the camera will move slightly towards the right and still try to fit all the enemies in the image. If it can't, it'll focus on where there are most enemies. And if they all are out of reach, it centers just upon yourself. Sound like a good feature?

And then you could switch which camera mode you want default in the options, and have hotkeys in-game to switch between them, preferrably one key per mode, or something. This mode could be called "Target Camera", for its tendency to look for targets for its view.

[Pac-Man]

No worries ;)

Still no build yet for Steam. /wrist

I can't recall if this patch introduces any new actual features that I'll notice or use. I hope it does.

Deadcode or someone should make a feature to let you import custom level backgrounds in-game, along with a level. That'd make the game a whole lot more immersive.
Also the ability to force the camera not to scroll the screen, like in a cavern being fixed. I'm tired of having to move the camera back so I can see myself and the only two enemies left in the same image. It's not like I'd fire in any other direction than my enemies. This begs for a new camera mode, and/or a hotkey to put the camera that way. It's better if the camera always tries to get as many as possible worms in a single image, whilst biasing towards enemies.

Oh, you would like the new screens having a native 1920x1080 HD resolution, since you can lock the camera to show the whole default 1920x696 map.

[franpa]

Oh, you would like the new screens having a native 1920x1080 HD resolution, since you can lock the camera to show the whole default 1920x696 map.

He acknowledged that cavern maps don't scroll on a 1920x1080 screen. What he was after was a similar feature for open maps.

[Balee]

Shift+Scroll Lock.

[GreeN]

apologize

http://forum.team17.co.uk/images/newsmilies/mad.gif

[RevMabuis]

Does this fix the "no cd" error?

[Squirminator2k]

In this week's episode, GreeN learns a very special lesson about international spellings of English words.

[GreeN]

Just because you've been swallowed up by those capitalist pigs, doesn't mean you have to forget your roots!

[Diablodoc]

I wonder when we can expect the update? Thought this week was gonna be the time.

[Pac-Man]

i'm probably late. but typing /ignore <playername> in the lobby crashes W:A
no errorlog or minidump, at least not without command line parameters which i dont know since /? doesnt list them

[KRD]

Can't reproduce, Pac-Man. Got any modules loaded?

[Pac-Man]

Nope. I turned that off. Another player told me the same problem and I didn't believe it. Then I tested it myself.

[KRD]

Oh wow, I guess you meant channel, not lobby. I get it in #AG too, sent the error log and crash dump in now.

[Pac-Man]

Funny, I didn't get one. Yeah channel is meant.

[franpa]

My Steam still hasn't downloaded v3.7.0.0. Is the update available yet?

[Muzer]

Not yet .

[Anthrox]

@Deadcode

polish letters in localizer are available?

Example:
ęóąśłżźćń

[Obn3g0n]

@Deadcode

polish letters in localizer are available?

Example:
ęóąśłżźćń
Not possible at the moment.

http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?p=786789&highlight=characters#post786789

[Anthrox]

Thanks for link ;)

Offtopic:
Hello Pac-Man, StepS & PyroMan http://forum.thecompany.pl/images/smilies/gatorlove.gif

[StepS]

ó seems to be available actually.

[Pac-Man]

Thanks for link ;)

Offtopic:
Hello Pac-Man, StepS & PyroMan http://forum.thecompany.pl/images/smilies/gatorlove.gif

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/143/rubiklolcat.jpg

[Pac-Man]

The worm freeze animation has a bug. When choosing the weapon, upwards and downwards sprites are erroneously switched.

[CyberShadow]

It's a known issue:
In the sprite of a Worm holding a Freeze, the worm is incorrectly shown as standing on a downward slope if it is standing on an upward slope. A fix for this will be bundled with the next update of Gfx0.dir and Gfx1.dir (delayed because it is hard to get the palette just right).

[Pac-Man]

OK, I think I just forgot that passage.

[Rainboworm]

Any news on why the update is still being held up? Are updates for steam edition continuing, or should I just buy a CD version and be done with it?

[KRD]

I'm sure it'll be up there eventually.

[Plutonic]

I'm not sure where the hold up is, steam is usually pretty instant with that sort of thing. have t17 actually submitted it?

[Diablodoc]

Considering Team17 have sent no reply for more than a week after the newest update was submitted to them, they might not have.

[Squirminator2k]

Can we please get an update on when the update will hit Steam?

[Pac-Man]

Yes!
It will be when you finally stop asking for it.

[Diablodoc]

He stopped asking many times already between each asking, didn't help. I find your words dubious, Pac-Man-san!

[franpa]

Yes!
It will be when you finally stop asking for it.

Go be a dick elsewhere it's been several weks and we've been extremely patient without much in the way of information/explanation.

[Pac-Man]

Noone blocks you buying a real CD (oh yeah those things still exist and will probably survive those download trash) and install 3.7
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=worms+armageddon&_sacat=0&_from=R40
have fun

[keiyakins]

Fine. If you people are going to be abusive I'll just post this, hopefully a few people see it before I get banned for helping second-class users.

Grab ImgBurn (http://www.imgburn.com/), use it to create a disk image with the contents of your Worms Armageddon folder off Steam. Make sure the volume label is "WA", no quotes. Mount it using one of these (http://worms2d.info/Running_WA_without_the_CD#Mounting_the_disk_image) This will fulfill the disk check DRM so you can run a copy patched to v3.7.0.0 normally.

[Pac-Man]

^Made my day^

[Squirminator2k]

Noone blocks you buying a real CD (oh yeah those things still exist and will probably survive those download trash) and install 3.7
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=worms+armageddon&_sacat=0&_from=R40
have fun

Here's the thing, Pumpkin: I own a real CD. I have it. It's with all my other disc-based PC games. I could uninstall the Steam version at any point and install the CD version with no issues.

But I shouldn't have to, and anyone who got Worms Armageddon via Steam shouldn't be forced to have to either buy a physical copy of the game or resort to [workarounds (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62484)]. Those of us with Steam versions of WA installed shouldn't be treated like second-class citizens, and lashing out at us for being angry with Team17 dropping the ball with post-release support is bulls**t.

[Extremist2]

The existing Steam release is pre-order bonus content. You technically didn't pay for it, so why expect post-release support?

Unless they did do a proper release when I wasn't looking?

[Squirminator2k]

They haven't done a general release yet, but that's not the point. Team17 put one of their currently-supported titles on Steam. CyberShadow and Deadcode have been sending them code per Team17's instructions so that Team17 can release updates. They haven't. Granted, there have been a number of mitigating factors delaying the 3.7 update from hitting Steam including the departure of certain Teamsters, but my understanding was that those obstacles were out of the way now. So what's stopping them?

[Extremist2]

Team17 put one of their currently-supported titles on Steam.

This game comes under "Older Titles" on this forum. Team17 no longer sells it directly. All of Deadcode's updates have been created with ZERO help from the company.

They made a decision to stop properly supporting the game. Nobody knows what internal factors at the company caused this decision, but private business doesn't do/not do anything without a reason...

[Squirminator2k]

This game comes under "Older Titles" on this forum. Team17 no longer sells it directly. All of Deadcode's updates have been created with ZERO help from the company.

They made a decision to stop properly supporting the game. Nobody knows what internal factors at the company caused this decision, but private business doesn't do/not do anything without a reason...

Okay, two things.

Firstly, as you may recall, Deadcode was originally brought in because Team17 wanted to support Worms Armageddon but didn't have the resources to do this themselves. Team17 aren't hosting hacked patches, y'know - they gave DC (and, later, CyberShadow) the source code to the game. In what universe does that constitute "ZERO help"?

Secondly, and I think this is arguably the most important point to make in response to your post, ["companies exist to make money" is not a valid excuse for a company sh*tting on their consumers (http://www.gamefront.com/dumb-things-fanboys-say-companies-exist-to-make-money/)].

[SgtFusion]

Secondly, and I think this is arguably the most important point to make in response to your post, ["companies exist to make money" is not a valid excuse for a company sh*tting on their consumers (http://www.gamefront.com/dumb-things-fanboys-say-companies-exist-to-make-money/)].

I could be wrong, but I don't recall him saying that it was a valid excuse.

[Squirminator2k]

I don't recall saying he'd said that, either. I was saying, basically, that it doesn't make it okay.

[Extremist2]

Deadcode was originally brought in because Team17 wanted to support Worms Armageddon but didn't have the resources to do this themselves.

Read: Didn't WANT to do it themselves.

It was nice of them to let Deadcode make new updates, but I doubt it was out of the goodness of their hearts. They probably wanted to keep the asset (WA) alive for future reference, seeing how high quality it was even before official updates stopped. It functioned well as a pre-order incentive all these years later (and a few extra sales trickled in before they stopped selling it themselves), so the move of offloading the work to an unpaid individual paid off.

Nintendo is seen as a consumer friendly company, but I think that reputation is just coincidence. Every move they make is in reaction to the stock price, which hasn't been truly stable in quite a while. So they have to keep putting out value-added product over and over just to keep on an even keel with the competition.

If Team17's next new product bombs, they may reactivate direct WA support as a failsafe until another new product is ready.

Maybe Team17 was a cool company at one time, but money is a strong influence. AC/DC swore that they would never allow their songs to be sold individually (iTunes doesn't restrict this), but since almost nobody buys CDs anymore, out come the flip-flops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmI8ms5-tB8

Nobody like companies who s*** on their customers. But until people start reacting to that behavior with their wallets...

http://i.imgur.com/RmikWrV.gif

[Squirminator2k]

Read: Didn't WANT to do it themselves.

That's a Hell of an inference, considering Team17 are and have always been a relatively small company with limited resources.

If they didn't want to support the game they wouldn't have bothered reaching out to Deadcode. You have to remember, at the time the WA community was up in arms about the game's lack of Windows XP support. That's why these beta updates ultimately happened, and why the game has remained supported for all this time.

It was nice of them to let Deadcode make new updates, but I doubt it was out of the goodness of their hearts. They probably wanted to keep the asset (WA) alive for future reference, seeing how high quality it was even before official updates stopped.

What the bloody Hell does this even mean? You don't need to keep an entire game's community alive and support the title to "keep the asset... for future reference." What a mind-bogglingly preposterous assertion.

It functioned well as a pre-order incentive all these years later (and a few extra sales trickled in before they stopped selling it themselves), so the move of offloading the work to an unpaid individual paid off.

INT. TEAM17 H.Q. - MEETING ROOM - DAY
Around a fine mahogany table sit three EXECUTIVES. They are fat, no doubt from years of beer consumption.

EXEC #1
Gentlemen, it's 2001. Worms World
Party is basically wrapped up, and we
can now now we can begin work on
that 3D Worms idea we've had kicking
about since... well, since about 1995,
I'd guess.

EXEC #2
We do have a bit of a problem. Windows
XP has just been released , and
neither Armageddon nor World Party
work on it!

EXEC #3
Not our problem, though, surely?
They're old games.

EXEC #1
Gentlemen, we cannot afford to be so
complacent. Remember, Valve will be
launching Steam in about a year, and
it's only two years after that they'll
let third-parties put their games out
on the platform. We need to start
being forward-thinking.

EXEC #2
Exec Number One is right. We need
to rope in a couple of gullible idiots
to start working on updates for Worms
Armageddon immediately, so we can
monetize it later by using it as a
pre-order incentive for a clearly
inferior game in about ten years.

EXEC #3
A brilliant idea! Bonuses and raises
for all!

They laugh maniacally for seven solid minutes.

tl;dr: The assertion that Team17 deliberately brought in unpaid programmers because it might "pay off" at some point in the future is f**king ridiculous.

Nintendo is seen as a consumer friendly company, but I think that reputation is just coincidence. Every move they make is in reaction to the stock price, which hasn't been truly stable in quite a while. So they have to keep putting out value-added product over and over just to keep on an even keel with the competition.

If you want to tell me how this is relevant, do let me know. Especially considering Team17 is not a publicly-held company.

If Team17's next new product bombs, they may reactivate direct WA support as a failsafe until another new product is ready.

Again, there's absolutely zero logic in this assertion. If it's not in Team17's financial interest to support a game which doesn't make them any money now, why would it be in their interest to do so if Worms Revolution is a flop? And what do you mean by "direct" support? Do you mean in-house updates? If they weren't willing to pay programmers to fix the game in 2002, what in the name of Santa's lovespuds makes you think they'd be willing to do it in 2013?

Maybe Team17 was a cool company at one time, but money is a strong influence. AC/DC swore that they would never allow their songs to be sold individually (iTunes doesn't restrict this), but since almost nobody buys CDs anymore, out come the flip-flops...

You have a wonderful talent for bringing up irrelevant things. Honestly, it's like a gift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmI8ms5-tB8

And then you go one further by linking to an AC/DC song that was posted onto YouTube by a fan. You saw how irrelevant your comment about the aging band was and thought, "Hm, this isn't irrelevant enough. I have to go deeper."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2jUhnCU9iA

Nobody like companies who s*** on their customers. But until people start reacting to that behavior with their wallets...

http://i.imgur.com/RmikWrV.gif

The problem here, though, is we didn't know Team17 were going to s*** on Steam users. As Worms Armageddon is a currently-supported title (its placement on the forum is irrelevant - updates are still released for the game, therefore it's still supported - certainly it's been updated more recently than Worms Reloaded and Worms Ultimate Mayhem) it can be assumed that any new patches released for the game would be released for the Steam version as well.

Indeed, it can be inferred that conversations about exactly that would have taken place between people at Team17 and CyberShadow & Deadcode, considering it's their patch they'd need to add to the service to make it playable on XP/Vista/Win7 in the first bloody place.

[Extremist2]

INT. TEAM17 H.Q. - MEETING ROOM - DAY
Around a fine mahogany table sit three EXECUTIVES. They are fat, no doubt from years of beer consumption.

To me, that story doesn't sound unrealistic. The descriptions of the executives are probably wrong. I see average people staring at numbers and thinking about balancing their budget and preparing for future eventualities.

If you want to tell me how this is relevant, do let me know. Especially considering Team17 is not a publicly-held company.

Just giving an example of how companies generally function. They react to money pressures, which can be in the form of stock or basic income.

And what do you mean by "direct" support? Do you mean in-house updates? If they weren't willing to pay programmers to fix the game in 2002, what in the name of Santa's lovespuds makes you think they'd be willing to do it in 2013?

To get it done faster and/or add new artistic assets. They'd do something like that if they wanted the game to make MORE money NOW.

And then you go one further by linking to an AC/DC song that was posted onto YouTube by a fan. You saw how irrelevant your comment about the aging band was and thought, "Hm, this isn't irrelevant enough. I have to go deeper."

The song is Dog Eat Dog. It's about capitalism. It's relevant.

And I don't see what the band's age has to do with anything. Their popularity/sales are as good as ever. Had a #1 album & sold-out stadium tour a few years ago. The iTunes release was an unfortunate solution to a distribution problem, nothing else.

(OK, that was an unneeded paragraph. I'm just a really big fan, ok? :p)

[Squirminator2k]

To me, that story doesn't sound unrealistic. The descriptions of the executives are probably wrong. I see average people staring at numbers and thinking about balancing their budget and preparing for future eventualities.

...In a decade?

Just giving an example of how companies generally function. They react to money pressures, which can be in the form of stock or basic income.

So, and you'll have to forgive me here because I'm not seeing how the dots should join up, you suggest that Team17 would resume supporting a game they're already supporting if the new game flops, at which point supporting a game that probably costs them more money due to server maintenance will suddenly become a wise investment? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around you magic money logic.


To get it done faster and/or add new artistic assets. They'd do something like that if they wanted the game to make MORE money NOW.

These two sentences literally mean nothing. They can't just make the game make more money. Nothing you're saying here makes sense.

The song is Dog Eat Dog. It's about capitalism. It's relevant.

OH WELL THEN.

[KRD]

:D :D :D :D

Thoroughly enjoying this exchange, hope you are able to keep it clean enough to be allowed to continue.

[Extremist2]

you suggest that Team17 would resume supporting a game they're already supporting

A bare minimum of support. It's like a movie studio paying to keep old film reels refrigerated so they might be used later. Or renewing a trademark on a not currently available product.

Asset preservation.

These two sentences literally mean nothing. They can't just make the game make more money. Nothing you're saying here makes sense.

It's not guaranteed, but adding value to a product generally makes it sell better.

BTW, I didn't really feel like replying again, but if people are entertained... :D

[Squirminator2k]

A bare minimum of support. It's like a movie studio paying to keep old film reels refrigerated so they might be used later. Or renewing a trademark on a not currently available product.

Asset preservation.

Actually it's slightly better than that because, haha, they're still supporting the game.

It's not guaranteed, but adding value to a product generally makes it sell better.
Adding value to an out-of-print product that at present is only really available via the second-hand market that Team17. Right. Gotcha. Cheers.

[Extremist2]

Adding value to an out-of-print product that at present is only really available via the second-hand market that Team17. Right. Gotcha. Cheers.

You didn't read correctly. I thought they might do this at some point in the future when they needed more money but didn't have new product to sell.

[Squirminator2k]

Right, but what value would they be adding when they say "Y'know that game we've been supporting for the last fourteen years? Well we're still supporting it!"?

[Extremist2]

Right, but what value would they be adding when they say "Y'know that game we've been supporting for the last fourteen years? Well we're still supporting it!"?

AGAIN, a bare minimum of support.

WA is not next to WREV in the forum list.

Team17 does not pay to have WA updated.

They do not tell Deadcode what to do.

They do not sell WA.

Letting Deadcode update it and keeping the servers on is not active support. It's putting it in a storage facility and giving the key to a neighbour so he can brush off the dust and tighten the screws in case they ever need the use of it again.

[Squirminator2k]

AGAIN, a bare minimum of support.

Which is still support.

WA is not next to WREV in the forum list.

Irrelevant - forum categories are not the Word of God, and the fact that the official Worms Armageddon page has the latest chuffing patch - 3.7.0.0, dated December 2012 - as a download rather suggests that the game is currently supported, don't you think?

Team17 does not pay to have WA updated.

No, but they do pay to host and maintain the servers for WA and WWP. Which is more than they've done for - and I'm just pulling a random name out of my ****, here - Worms 4: Mayhem.

They do not tell Deadcode what to do.

Irrelevant.

They do not sell WA.

Also irrelevant, considering they're still supporting the title.

Letting Deadcode update it and keeping the servers on is not active support. It's putting it in a storage facility and giving the key to a neighbour so he can brush off the dust and tighten the screws in case they ever need the use of it again.

If they'd put the game into a storage facility they wouldn't bother paying £XXX a month hosting the bloody servers. They could just as easily switch the servers off and save themselves money on hosting, bandwidth and electricity. They could outsource the servers, assuming they haven't done so already, and save even more money, but they'd still be spending money on a game that isn't, in your opinion, "currently supported." Despite the fact that running and maintaining the servers counts as active support.

Putting the game into storage would be, "We're done, WA is in the past, let's look to the future." The very fact that they still let Deadcode and CyberShadow update the game is more than, say, EA Games has done for literally any of its games from the 90s (or indeed, for sports games from more than 2 years ago). By your standards, Blizzard aren't supporting StarCraft anymore because the updates aren't handled in Blizzard's Anaheim offices anymore.

But all of this is irrelevant because none of this, none of it, explains why they haven't updated the Steam version of the game yet.

[Extremist2]

If they'd put the game into a storage facility they wouldn't bother paying £XXX a month hosting the bloody servers. They could just as easily switch the servers off and save themselves money on hosting, bandwidth and electricity.

Storage facilities aren't free.

Which is still support.

There's "support" (buy our classic game! A new update is now available!) and then there's "support" (you can still play our old game if you want to. This guy who doesn't work for us might have an update for it).

But all of this is irrelevant because none of this, none of it, explains why they haven't updated the Steam version of the game yet.

Not a priority, obviously. They have a NEW product that they're promoting & updating right now, and new ALWAYS sells better than old (I mean, who's going to buy EXACTLY the same product over and over every few years?).

[Squirminator2k]

Storage facilities aren't free.
At this point I'm beginning to think you're trolling.

There's "support" (buy our classic game! A new update is now available!) and then there's "support" (you can still play our old game if you want to. This guy who doesn't work for us might have an update for it).

...might have an update which is hosted on the official game website. An important distinction, there.

Not a priority, obviously. They have a NEW product that they're promoting & updating right now, and new ALWAYS sells better than old (I mean, who's going to buy EXACTLY the same product over and over every few years?).

Call of Duty fans. Obviously.

[franpa]

The existing Steam release is pre-order bonus content. You technically didn't pay for it, so why expect post-release support?

Unless they did do a proper release when I wasn't looking?

I bet a fair few customers would never have spent any money towards W:R if W:A wasn't bundled with it.

[Deadcode]

Can we please get an update on when the update will hit Steam?

Team17 wants to test the update internally before releasing it on Steam. However, their testing department is really busy with something else (not sure I'm at liberty to say what it is) which could take an unspecified number of weeks.

CyberShadow and I would like to do a synchronized CD update + Steam release this time, which is why we've waited. In the meantime we're working on a 3.7.2.0 update. If it takes much longer for Team17 to be ready perhaps we should do another CD-update-only release?

[Squirminator2k]

I guess you'd have to discuss that with them. Thanks for the update.

[Extremist2]

...might have an update which is hosted on the official game website. An important distinction, there.

The update page is the only page on that site that is ever changed. Posting the file there takes the same amount of effort (not much) as paying the power bill for the server every month.

Paying for updates, or working on them yourself, and then actively selling/promoting your game...now that's more liike it!

Call of Duty fans. Obviously.

Too true. XD

But WA doesn't have COD's massive production values (and would lose its charm if it did), and shooters are way more popular than turn-based strategy. The update-and-re-release strategy wouldn't work in Team17's case. EDIT: Sorry for stating the obvious... :p

Oh, and good hear some news, even it isn't much at all... ;)

[Diablodoc]

The existing Steam release is pre-order bonus content. You technically didn't pay for it

When you purchase a package, the description of the package you buy, concludes your purchase. If you bought a bundle with two games, you paid for them. In this case, you paid for W:REV and W:A. There is no doubt, especially not in terms of law, that you have purchased and paid for W:A to obtain it on Steam.

As for the rest:

Squirminator, support is a relative term. Infact, hosting the game on their servers doesn't take an effort.
If you think the W:A website is hosted on a dedicated server, meant and intended only for W:A, you're wrong. They simply have to waste a few megabytes to let the patches remain on their server systems.

And let's not argue about those tiny, tiny megabytes. Team17 is a company, and disk space today is cheap, especially for companies that host more things.

They let DeadCode upload the patches himself. So their actual effort is nothing, in terms of the CD Version.
However, the testing of the Steam version seems like an effort, unless they just ask one of their employees "Care to test this if you get time?"

* Extremist2 has pointed out a lot of good things in his earlier posts, though I think the last posts between you guys have been kinda off.

And the business model of using W:A as a pre-order bonus has worked well so far. It's a good business model and speeds up the sales of other games enormously. I've had people telling me they'd do anything to get W:A on Steam.

However, the main point to begin with, was Pac-Man's attitude towards nagging about a Steam release. I shouldn't have to emphasize that regardless of the existence of CD Versions, users shouldn't have to purchase the game again (and especially not outside their current platform) just to have the game patched, when it's been Team17's idea to let it patch all along.

That, and I'd hate to have to move all my save files and content over the the CD vesion and force myself to always have the CD in, when I use my CD drive for other applications (Like SWAT 4) that require CD. It's a pain.
Considering there is a Steam update, and that's what we paid for, and that's what we're talking about, the CD version has no place in that discussion.

We've been waiting since December, we're tired, and there have been no updates released on Steam ever, in past history. The game is still on its initial release version, afaik. Yes, I believe we deserve an update soon, and this thread is the right place to discuss.

Thanks for the update, DeadCode :)

[Pac-Man]

Wait, didn't they test it before so it didn't need to be called a beta?

[franpa]

Yes, however Cybershadow and Deadcode have there own group of people to help test and debug problems with the patches and Team17 also have there own group of people to do the same thing.

Team17's QA a bit redundant in this case but Team17's gotta make sure that what they approve and distribute themselves, in such a public location (Steam), works. The CD Version is hard to find and not available in stores anymore so there is less of a risk of bad publicity when it comes to releasing updates to the CD Version.

[Muzer]

Squirminator, support is a relative term. Infact, hosting the game on their servers doesn't take an effort.
If you think the W:A website is hosted on a dedicated server, meant and intended only for W:A, you're wrong. They simply have to waste a few megabytes to let the patches remain on their server systems.

The WA website might not be, but until a few years ago, WormNet1 (WA) was indeed hosted on its own dedicated server AFAIK. More recently, it merged with WormNet2 (WWP). I believe it's now hosted externally, but still probably on a dedicated server for those two games (I have no evidence for this though). Interestingly, I believe W2 is still hosted in-house. I might be wrong about all of this.

[Diablodoc]

The WA website might not be, but until a few years ago, WormNet1 (WA) was indeed hosted on its own dedicated server AFAIK. More recently, it merged with WormNet2 (WWP). I believe it's now hosted externally, but still probably on a dedicated server for those two games (I have no evidence for this though). Interestingly, I believe W2 is still hosted in-house. I might be wrong about all of this.

Yeah, I imagine they could have them on dedicated servers back then. If they have more than one game on a dedicated, it also sounds worth it, but I see no reason to have a dedicated server just for a website.
If they host WormNet and the latter on them, that makes more sense.

Thanks for the info :D

Given these new inputs, maybe we can expect W:A in mid/late february?

[Pac-Man]

Why are the black rectangles on the left and right not drawn down to the bottom in this uber thin map? Animations like water bubbles or worms or whatever are still drawn correctly on the background gradient, it doesn't start looking corrupted, just as if someone didn't make those black areas long enough to reach the bottom.
http://pacman.highfsb.com/screen0000.png

[Deadcode]

Why are the black rectangles on the left and right not drawn down to the bottom in this uber thin map? Animations like water bubbles or worms or whatever are still drawn correctly on the background gradient, it doesn't start looking corrupted, just as if someone didn't make those black areas long enough to reach the bottom.
http://pacman.highfsb.com/screen0000.png

Funny you should ask that today, because I just fixed it 3 days ago (the fix will be in the next release). This bug dates back to v3.6.28.0, and you're right; the letterbox rectangles are being drawn with the incorrect formula for the bottom Y coordinate. (If the current map is a cavern with a width narrower than the current resolution, when the chat panel is visible, an area of matching height on the bottom of the screen doesn't get covered by the letterbox rectangles.)

[Pac-Man]

Yeah, it's nothing new, but due to the new renderer it became pretty clear what why there is this bug (in the previous versions the background just didn't get redrawn and didn't make it so clear).

[Pac-Man]

Whenever I minimize from W:A with Alt+Tab, the Alt key gets stuck. You can easily notice that by pressing Delete - the worm labels get transparent / opaque and do not toggle between the amount of displayed labels.
Probably other keys get stuck too if you use them when minimizing (via hotkeys).
I can fix it by pressing Alt in game again.

The chat telephone rings, I open the chat, read a LOL quickly and close it again - the telephone still rings, if opening and closing the chat quickly like this.

[StepS]

yep http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=62342

hold any key and minimize. it will still be held forever when you maximize, until you singlepress it.
it's an old and known issue

[Pac-Man]

It's the first time it appeared to me :(

[Star&Moon]

Just cracked out WA after a while.

Nice work, guys!

[franpa]

52 days later, no update in sight.

[franpa]

Revenge of the Titans has gotten like 5 updates in the last 2 weeks.

[StepS]

franpa, did you read this?

In the meantime we're working on a 3.7.2.0 update.

it's probably better to wait for it first?
a 3.6.30.0 was once delayed, btw (for a year, probably) and the result was even more nice

[franpa]

franpa, did you read this?



it's probably better to wait for it first?
a 3.6.30.0 was once delayed, btw (for a year, probably) and the result was even more nice

I think you misunderstood Deadcode. v3.7.0.0 is still intended to be the update for both CD and Steam users with 3.7.2.0 likely being a CD Only update. Why would I want to wait even longer for an update that likely won't reach Steam users either?

CyberShadow and I would like to do a synchronized CD update + Steam release this time, which is why we've waited. In the meantime we're working on a 3.7.2.0 update. If it takes much longer for Team17 to be ready perhaps we should do another CD-update-only release?
Next time you should maybe consider not taking a part of what he said out of context? The bolded part is relating to 3.7.0.0 and the rest including the suggestion of making the next patch CD Only, relate to 3.7.2.0.

[Balee]

http://nach.tasvideos.org/franpa-alert/franpa-code-yellow.png

http://nach.tasvideos.org/franpa-alert/franpa-code-orange.png

[Deadcode]

franpa, you've misunderstood me.

In the case that Team17 reaches a state of readiness to do their internal testing soon enough: We'll release 3.7.2.0 for both Steam and CD, as close to simultaneously as possible.

In the case that they don't: We'll release 3.7.2.0 for CD only. Steam will still be stuck at 3.6.31.2b for a while longer. By the time Team17 does reach a state of readiness, we'll probably have a 3.7.3.0 or 3.8.0.0 ready.

[franpa]

franpa, you've misunderstood me.

In the case that Team17 reaches a state of readiness to do their internal testing soon enough: We'll release 3.7.2.0 for both Steam and CD, as close to simultaneously as possible.

In the case that they don't: We'll release 3.7.2.0 for CD only. Steam will still be stuck at 3.6.31.2b for a while longer. By the time Team17 does reach a state of readiness, we'll probably have a 3.7.3.0 or 3.8.0.0 ready.

You can at least see how I came to that conclusion though, right? And thanks for clearing it up unlike certain person posting images for the lulz.

[hoppi]

Just played some Mole Shopper and saw a lg mole go through a worm. I've seen half of the mole "go through" many times, it's normal, but I thought this should've been almost perfect hit. Probably not really a bug, just bad luck, but looked strange :p Here's the replay, skip to 10:43:

http://www.2shared.com/file/KNGQNFC5/lg_mole_goes_through_a_worm_at.html

EDIT: better link below

|
V

[Squirminator2k]

Did you literally Google "worst filesharing service" or something? Next time please try posting the replay to a filesharing website that doesn't force you to download three separate pieces of legally dubious nagware before you even click "Download".

Here it is for people who don't want to turn their computer into a large paperweight. (http://dream17.info/forum/lg%20mole%20goes%20through%20a%20worm%20at%2010.43 .WAgame)

[hoppi]

I googled "upload" and that was the first site that came up, I thought it would be good but apparently not :( Sorry and thanks for reuploading.

edit: I tried it myself, it downloaded fine without any additional garbage. You must've clicked those annoying fake download links. The smaller blue Download button below is the right one. What is the best free filesharing site these days anyway?

[Squirminator2k]

The buttons are decidedly vague.

I'd recommend either hosting files yourself, or using Dropbox.

[franpa]

Squirminator2k, you need an ad blocker!

[StepS]

I'd recommend either hosting files yourself, or using Dropbox.

or the new MEGA ;)

[Pac-Man]

better not, who knows for how long you will have profit of that

[StepS]

for ever? :o
and what profit? the user doesnt get any profit :p

[Pac-Man]

if forever means some months

[StepS]

if forever means forever because some people don't mind clearing up the actual facts
but yep, it's beta still, so expect bugs

[Muzer]

MEGA? Yeah, there were a lot of security flaws in it when it first existed, and there's no evidence it's completely secure now ;)

[keiyakins]

Two months.

[Alby1987]

Two months.

Waiting "Nine 1/2 Weeks", then ;)

[Deadcode]

Just played some Mole Shopper and saw a lg mole go through a worm. I've seen half of the mole "go through" many times, it's normal, but I thought this should've been almost perfect hit. Probably not really a bug, just bad luck, but looked strange :p Here's the replay, skip to 10:43:

Here it is for people who don't want to turn their computer into a large paperweight. (http://dream17.info/forum/lg%20mole%20goes%20through%20a%20worm%20at%2010.43 .WAgame)

This Mole Bomb ate away the land that the worm's collision mask was standing on one frame before it would have hit the worm's mask itself.

All objects that are at rest only check once every 13 frames whether there is still something underneath them to rest on — and will start falling if there isn't. As many as 12 frames can go by after the land disappears out from under something, before it will start falling; or, as few as just 1 frame.

On every frame, the game engine goes through the list of objects one by one and moves them each one by one — as opposed to other engines, which may do all collision detection first and then move objects forward in their path "all at once". Each type of object has its own list of things it can collide with; everything else, it will pass through as if it isn't there. There can be a situation where objects of type A will collide with objects of type B, but objects of type B will not collide with type A — so a type B object can fall into a type A object, and once inside, the type A object can no longer collide with the type B object since they're overlapping.

It just so happens that this Mole Bomb ate away the land under the worm exactly 1 frame before it was that worm's time to check underneath itself (which occurs every 13 frames). Since the worm object came before the Mole Bomb object in the list of objects, the worm moved first, "into" the Mole Bomb (since worms don't collide with missiles or animals, even though most missiles and animals do collide with worms), and once overlapping, it had to fall straight through it, since collision detection is turned off for overlapping objects.

This was a fairly improbable event, 1 out of 13 at best, but probably more like 2 in 143 or so, because in most cases a Mole Bomb will hit a worm's collision mask at the same time as it eats away the land the worm was standing on.

Oh, and I verified that if the game time had been 10:48.96 at the time the mole reached the worm, instead of 10:48.94, it would have exploded on contact and sent the worm flying.

[StepS]

What about this one?
http://myfiles.my1.ru/wa/replays/mole_digging_in_indy_ground.rar
See from 25:35
an old game saved in my replayshark folder

[Deadcode]

What about this one?
http://myfiles.my1.ru/wa/replays/mole_digging_in_indy_ground.rar
See from 25:35
an old game saved in my replayshark folder

I've seen that before, but never analyzed it until now.

The jumping mole collided with that little bit of land, but it's the posterior part of its mask that touched it, and once it was touching and the digging phase began, the digging trajectory did not collide with it.

Digging continues as long as the mole detects that the next position it will be in intersects with land, and/or the position 6 pixels below the next position it will be in intersects with land. The latter condition was true for a little while (if the former condition were true on indestructible terrain, it'd inevitably hit and explode), so the mole did its digging sound and went slowly for a bit, until the land was no longer in range below it.

[franpa]

>Worms Revolution gets an update.
>Worms Armageddon still sitting in the dust.

[StepS]

i thought we already regulated this? :-/
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=789769&postcount=162

[franpa]

i thought we already regulated this? :-/
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=789769&postcount=162

Deadcode hasn't indicated that they have made arrangements for the 3.7.0.0 patch to not be released, in favour of a 3.7.2.0 patch. All that's happened is that there was mention of 3.7.2.0... with no mention of T17 actually releasing that patch for Steam either. So yeah I could focus on Team17 probably ignoring future updates (What have they got to show for themselves that would indicate otherwise?), or I can continue to lament about current issue.

[1batata]

oh so interesting! *goes back playing hedgewars singleplayer (if it even works)

[SgtFusion]

oh so interesting! *goes back playing hedgewars singleplayer (if it even works)

What the hell? Why are you posting random crap in every single forum you can?

[1batata]

What the hell? Why are you posting random crap in every single forum you can?

This is the 1st time I post crap. Lots of people post random crap, just because I pop up occasionaly gives you right to call crap everything I write? If you overthink a bit about what I said, there's a reason why hedgewars is relevant. Hedgewars and Worms have lots of things in common, Highlander scheme is one of them. 3.7 doesn't let us play highlander, forcing us to stay on a earlier patch to play ProjectX. 3.7 also wasn't updated on steam. So I stay by "interesting, back to hedgewars".

Did I destroy the balance of this universe?

[Deadcode]

Deadcode hasn't indicated that they have made arrangements for the 3.6.7.0 patch to not be released, in favour of a 3.7.2.0 patch. All that's happened is that there was mention of 3.7.2.0... with no mention of T17 actually releasing that patch for Steam either. So yeah I could focus on Team17 probably ignoring future updates (What have they got to show for themselves that would indicate otherwise?), or I can continue to lament about current issue.

Whaaaa..? Um, no.

First of all, there's no 3.6.7.0, and if there had been, it would've been released back in December 2003.

Secondly, Team17 has indeed indicated they're ready to do their internal testing of 3.7.2, and we've sent it to them.

[TheTrouble]

That is great news!

[BethanyTeam17]

>Worms Revolution gets an update.
>Worms Armageddon still sitting in the dust.

We've had a team continuing to support Worms Revolution since it's release.

We are very busy in the studio at the moment andwe've had to fit in the Worms Armageddon update in among our schedule once the staff became free.

We have now completed out internal testing of 3.7.2.1 and we're happy to announce this build has now been pushed live to Steam.

Thank you.

[franpa]

We are very busy in the studio at the moment and we've had to fit in the Worms Armageddon update in among our schedule once the staff became free.

We have now completed out internal testing of 3.7.2.1 and we're happy to announce this build has now been pushed live to Steam.

Thank you.

Understandable but still, almost 3 entire months to free up the staff to test it? Anyways, new stuff is out at last and Steam users are no longer lagging behind everyone else.

Edit: I'm thankful we got 3.7.2.1 and am kinda surprised at how fast it came out.

[CyberShadow]

In the Steam version, the W:A Readme document (containing the changelog) can now be found under the name "Worms Armageddon Update Documentation.rtf". The Steam release notes (which should be up later today, you can also find them in the game's Community Hub discussion board) will mention that.

[franpa]

In the Steam version, the W:A Readme document (containing the changelog) can now be found under the name "Worms Armageddon Update Documentation.rtf". The Steam release notes (which should be up later today, you can also find them in the game's Community Hub discussion board) will mention that.

Yeah I noticed that, I took a look at the Steam community forum when I mentioned I don't check it >.>" Also edited my last post as it was pretty stupid.