Level Editor

[Thurbo]

Quoted from Team17's Facebook page

What's on your mind?

I'll tell you what's on my mind... the level editor. There has been a LOT of chatter on the net regarding the inclusion of the level editor as DLC (some of it wasn't very nice). Anyhow, I want you all to know that we do listen and we will be making an announcement on Monday regarding the editor (I think you'll all be pleasantly surprised).

I thought this would be important. I'm absolutely approving this; most people I know were not looking to buy any DLCs for this game and therefore very disappointed the level editor was DLC exclusive.

Not sure what we're gonna see on Monday but as long as the editor is going to become free I'm fine :p

[Star&Moon]

Quoted from Team17's Facebook page



I thought this would be important. I'm absolutely approving this; most people I know were not looking to buy any DLCs for this game and therefore very disappointed the level editor was DLC exclusive.

Not sure what we're gonna see on Monday but as long as the editor is going to become free I'm fine :p

I'm curious as to what the level editor is like, is it just a map maker, or can you make missions with it?

[Obn3g0n]

I hope they have devised a way to be able to import PNG maps or similar, for online play.

Maps only made in the map editor would be a major, major drawback.

[Thurbo]

I hope they have devised a way to be able to import PNG maps or similar, for online play.

Maps only made in the map editor would be a major, major drawback.

It's minor minor and couldn't be more minor as it's only as much as a visual option. Plus, custom maps will always fit the game's art style/won't look absolutely horrible or even disturbing (I remember playing on various pornographic maps in Armageddon). Guess you can count that as a slight upside :p

I'm curious as to what the level editor is like, is it just a map maker, or can you make missions with it?

Map maker, to my knowledge.

[Scrubber]

Wait, the Xbox version wont have level editor?

[Thurbo]

Found this note, too:

James A.
Can you not still import levels from image editing programs?

Team17
James, I'll have to look into that and get back to you. Because of the pseudo 3D used in the game I think it is unlikely but I'll check.



In my opinion they could just use absolutely flat landscape masses (with added depth on the edges of course) and we are good to go slapping custom textures on it.

Also important:

Wspaniały J.
I've paid for Season Pass already so... If you're planning to let Level Editor go for free you better give something really good instead in DLC ;)

Team17
Well IF we gave the editor away for free you rest assured it would be replaced by "something really good".

[Knarls]

But in the normal Game for Xbox 360 and PS3 are randomly generated Maps, or not?

[BethanyTeam17]

But in the normal Game for Xbox 360 and PS3 are randomly generated Maps, or not?

You can turn the random landscape generator on so that you simply go straight into a multiplayer game with any landscape chosen at random.

Or you can turn it off so you can personally choose what theme is used, what template is used (cavern, single island etc.) and also what landscape objects appear.

This is available on all platforms of the game. However, the Landscape Editor is a PC only exclusive feature.

[BethanyTeam17]

Not sure what we're gonna see on Monday
Hi all,

Well firstly apologies for the delay in the announcement. This was due to waiting for feedback and action from Steam regarding the store pages. Here it is............

Previously announced as part of the pre-order Season Pass on Steam, PC gamers will be now able to create their own fiendish levels using the Worms Revolution Level Editor for free. Fans who have pre-ordered the Season Pass – fear not, we’ll be creating more DLC to replace the Level Editor so you’ll still get all 4 DLC packs as and when they are released.

Here at Team17 were are immensely proud of Worms Revolution and want the PC gaming community to get behind it, creating their own content in the process. We’ve made the change as a token of goodwill to all our fans - thanks for your support!

[raffie]

creating their own content in the process

This sounds good, what about those of us who prefer to create our custom content in Photoshop? ;)

[BethanyTeam17]

This sounds good, what about those of us who prefer to create our custom content in Photoshop? ;)

Players are not currently able to import image files into the Landscape Editor.

[steviebwoy]

I've been writing to you guys on FB and Twitter, but I still haven't had a decent response to the question of WHY the Editor has not been included in versions of the game beyond the PC?

It was on the PSP versions of Open Warfare, and worked really well, so why on earth can't it be included? It can't be a memory thing. The only reason I can come up with is something to do with censorship or inappropriate material - but surely this is the same risk as in the PC version? Plus, if it is such a big deal, then why not limit the Editor to offline games online.

I await your reply with interest! :)

[wild9ride]

Players are not currently able to import image files into the Landscape Editor.

Wow, without that it wouldn't even be worth selling.

[BethanyTeam17]

I've been writing to you guys on FB and Twitter, but I still haven't had a decent response to the question of WHY the Editor has not been included in versions of the game beyond the PC? ... The only reason I can come up with is something to do with censorship or inappropriate material - but surely this is the same risk as in the PC version?
Hi Steve,

We see everything that is posted to us and we'd request that people only ask us once rather than multiple posting.

There are different compliance standards that we have to ensure our titles meet to release our games on certain platforms. These standards vary on each platform.

Whereas we Steam we don't have to meet these set requirements etc. which is why the Editor is only available for the PC version of the game.

[Scrubber]

All the months i've been looking forward to this game and now i am instantly put off and disappointed.

I will never EVER play games on my PC (which is why i didn't bother with the Worms Golf game) but the PC version has extra features. Surely more people would buy the console versions than PC? Why choose an uncomfortable, impractical, eye aching experience over the comfort of a game controller and a couch/bed. Are they getting compensation?
I am pretty p****d off about this and can only assume the console version will be significantly cheaper due to a fan favorite (and most wanted) feature being completely left out?

Oh, and they get Worms Aramgeddon ASWELL!!!!! Bull

[Plasma]

All the months i've been looking forward to this game and now i am instantly put off and disappointed.

I will never EVER play games on my PC (which is why i didn't bother with the Worms Golf game) but the PC version has extra features. Surely more people would buy the console versions than PC? Why choose an uncomfortable, impractical, eye aching experience over the comfort of a game controller and a couch/bed. Are they getting compensation?
I am pretty p****d off about this and can only assume the console version will be significantly cheaper due to a fan favorite (and most wanted) feature being completely left out?

Oh, and they get Worms Aramgeddon ASWELL!!!!! Bull
A Team17 staff member already explained this:

A level editor on any of the consoles is a no go, the simple reason being that Teamsters or the platform holders (MS/Sony) have no control over the output. As the game is marketed as a family game we cannot allow griefers access to such an outlet. It's a shame, because customisation has always been the defining aspect of the Worms games.

I understand that Battle Islands has a level editor, but any landscapes created in it can only be used in private games.

As for free Worms Armageddon, that one's simple: it's already on PC. It doesn't cost them anything to give it away to PC players.

Honest suggestion? Get a PC-to-TV cable. Then play PC games from your couch. (Unless I'm mistaken), the wired 360 and PS3 controllers work on a PC, and the wireless PS3 and Wiimote controllers work too if you have bluetooth. The wireless 360 controller requires an extra component though.

[BethanyTeam17]

(Unless I'm mistaken), the wired 360 and PS3 controllers work on a PC

The Xbox 360 pad definitely works with Worms Revolution.

[Cyclaws]

uncomfortable, impractical, eye aching experience

Speaking of bull...

[Scrubber]

A Team17 staff member already explained this:


.

If they can't allow due to censorship issues then it would be SIMPLE to just not allow custom maps to be used online. A lot of my custom teams have rude names so why are they not taking out custom names aswell? I play worms locally with friends for a laugh how it was intended, i couldn't care less about playing online competitively, i'd rather have a level editor and no online.

If space is the issue then it should not be on xbla, it should be a disked retail title. Not including things for space is weak.

I will not buy extra cables/equipment/dated controllers just to play this game and i certainly wont play with a keyboard and mouse on a 15" PC when i have a 42" TV for gaming.

[VRocker]

I will not buy extra cables/equipment/dated controllers just to play this game and i certainly wont play with a keyboard and mouse on a 15" PC when i have a 42" TV for gaming.

So you don't have a HDMI cable and HDMI port on your pc? Or a VGA port on your TV? Personally i'm the complete opposite to you, i don't see how anybody can play a console with its limited controls and ****-poor graphics. I like to have the choice of input methods (keyboard+mouse/controller/joystick/wheel) and better graphics with much higher resolutions. Also games tend to cost less and we don't have to pay to play online :)

Back on topic, i'm guessing the issues with the level editor on a console are down to a few things, mainly being the controls to make them would be a bit meh, plus there are bandwidth issues to consider with consoles since they're not allowed to go over a certain Kbps.
I'm not sure but there may be issues with sending a chunk of data as big as a level which might stop it getting certified, i rarely play my consoles so i don't know if there are any games that are similar.
Also, i am 90% sure that games on a console have a limit of how much data they are allowed to save. I'm guessing an XBLA title is allocated less space than a full title. I am unsure of the actual limit but i think its stupidly low as its mainly meant for game saves (Think its a few MB if that).

Like bethamari said, steam doesn't impose any silly rules on the games submitted so bw and such isn't an issue, and space to store the levels is limited only by the size of your hard drive.

And for my final statement... *points and laughs at console players for not having a level editor* :P

[BethanyTeam17]

A lot of my custom teams have rude names so why are they not taking out custom names aswell?
There are Microsoft and Sony profanity filters in place, again this is something that isn't required by Steam.

[Thurbo]

I thought I'd share these here. 'cause they look kinda interesting :)

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/561123_10151156010058476_1472073917_n.jpg

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224522_10151156016388476_170497820_n.jpg

Looks pretty much like the Worms Reloaded editor with the extra depht. By the looks of it it's still possible to place worms, mines, barrels, sentries and magnets. Hopefully dynamic water as well (the H2O bottle in the top screenshot seems to approve this).

Seeing as the level editor is displaying the landscape flat I personally don't think having players add custom textures to landscapes via photoshop is something absolutely impossible.

Of course the other way round would seem easier for players (have the game render a landscape from the input image) but that does sound quite hard to make to me. After all it's a polygon mesh, not based on pixels.

[wild9ride]

Making the 2d custom landscapes 3d wouldn't exactly be a break through in technology. They're nothing more than an "extrude" in 3d max. The landscapes 3d effect wouldn't be difficulty at all and all the information they already need is in the 2d image.

They were probably more concerned about the aesthetics of where the the worms "walk" on it--the 3d part. Currently, the game creates a 2d world (exactly like all 2d worms games) and extrudes it (making it 3d, "thick"). Afterwards they wrap the mesh in what ever theme you're playing on. This technique wouldn't work with 2d textures--They probably don't have the back end set up for a different texture for the "face" of the level and the "inside" of the level. (It wraps around seamlessly every where).

All this said, they should have just made the user pick a theme and blend it at the edges and let the rest happen. Additional "themes" for blending would have worked as well too, like stretching the colors on the face over to the back of the mesh. This would have looked rather horrible on most maps, but ideal on others. Another approach would be to scrap the 3d effect and keep it 2d.

The fact is that gimp and photoshop have far better tools than Worms editors ever did. Not to mention part of the appeal is to get away from the same themes you've been playing for hundreds of hours. I don't think we'll have worms fighting on awesomely unique (http://wormgineers.com/index.php?page=File&id=267)maps ever again. Such a disappointment.

[steviebwoy]

If they can't allow due to censorship issues then it would be SIMPLE to just not allow custom maps to be used online. A lot of my custom teams have rude names so why are they not taking out custom names aswell? I play worms locally with friends for a laugh how it was intended, i couldn't care less about playing online competitively, i'd rather have a level editor and no online.

Totally agree with this and, sorry but the official response to this is laughable and unbelievably short-sighted. If we can't play our edited maps online then fair enough, but why on earth can't you just make them accessible for offline games only? Worms has always been a game for playing with your mates on the sofa anyway, so it's baffling this approach of "oh well, if we can't have it online then we won't have it at all". I honestly think the mods of this site should put that question forward rather than just trouting out a load of PR nonsense that doesn't actually change the situation - put the suggestion to those who are able to make the decision.

Trials Evolution on the 360 lets you create and publish levels to the *world* (not just your friends), so why on earth is this feature being stripped out for the consoles? It just doesn't make sense, and even if it did, just make the editor for offline games - at least then you'll be doing as much as you can for console players. At this point in time, your reasoning (with respect) just feels like a cop-out.

And as for repeating my question, I hadn't had a decent response (I still haven't, actually) so if you don't bother to reply then what choice do I have than to repeat the question!?

[Star&Moon]

Totally agree with this and, sorry but the official response to this is laughable and unbelievably short-sighted. If we can't play our edited maps online then fair enough, but why on earth can't you just make them accessible for offline games only? Worms has always been a game for playing with your mates on the sofa anyway, so it's baffling this approach of "oh well, if we can't have it online then we won't have it at all". I honestly think the mods of this site should put that question forward rather than just trouting out a load of PR nonsense that doesn't actually change the situation - put the suggestion to those who are able to make the decision.

Guys, can you please stop arguing about this, if they had the ability to do this do you think they would? Sure I'm disappointed too about the consoles not having the level editor, but he EXPLAINED it, and if you think there's some super easy solution to it, then read through all these posts again:

Hi Steve,

There are different compliance standards that we have to ensure our titles meet to release our games on certain platforms. These standards vary on each platform.

Whereas we Steam we don't have to meet these set requirements etc. which is why the Editor is only available for the PC version of the game.


Also, i am 90% sure that games on a console have a limit of how much data they are allowed to save. I'm guessing an XBLA title is allocated less space than a full title. I am unsure of the actual limit but i think its stupidly low as its mainly meant for game saves (Think its a few MB if that).

Like bethamari said, steam doesn't impose any silly rules on the games submitted so bw and such isn't an issue, and space to store the levels is limited only by the size of your hard drive.

[steviebwoy]

I'm not arguing at all, I'm just trying to get a decent response to why the level editor can't be made available for offline games.

Of the reasons we've had so far, none of them actually hold any weight.

1. "Various compliance issues" - this is almost certainly referring to censorship for online levels (surely it would be easier to just tell us the reason rather than the vague "various compliance issues"?). Firstly, Trials Evolution allows online content to be published, and secondly if it was such a big problem, then make the levels accessible offline only. Solved.

2. "Hard drive space" - again, Trials Evolution (and Joe Danger, if you want another example) both allow level editing and saving, and are massively more complicated than a Worms level, so I'm afraid that's simply not true either.

Look, if there was a perfectly valid and reasonable explanation for this then I'd go away happy and wouldn't even bother "arguing" the toss. So far though, all we've had is "various compliance issues" which doesn't even describe the issue and if the issue is (as I suspect) that censorship means they can't control the content, then just make the content available for offline games.

It's quite simple, but it seems like no-one can come up with a valid reason why they can't do it - that's why I'm peeved about it.

I can see that the view of Worms in the outside community is that it's just gonna be the same game that we've had year after year (good example of the wider reaction here - http://www.avforums.com/forums/xbla-xbox-live-arcade/1612436-worms-revolution-tbc.html). I've seen enough on the WRev beta to know that that isn't the case, but the addition of a level editor would've been a first for the 360 and a really impressive feature to add to the list. Not having it (yet having it on other platforms) is a real opportunity missed - at least having it for offline games would've been something.

Trust me, I'm not just being awkward for the sake of it, I've been a massive fan of the series for years (I'm 34 now!), playing Worms on pretty much every format since it first came out on the Amiga and (as above) was also on the PC beta for WRev, I just didn't think Team17 would be this short-sighted (especially with Andy Davidson back on board), and seemingly care so little about making the best game they can for everyone.

[Thurbo]

No matter what the reason is, the level editor is fully developed and releasing with the PC version on 10th October. If they can't add it to the console versions you can be almost 100% certain it's for a very nasty reason that Team17 has no control over.

1. "Various compliance issues" - this is almost certainly referring to censorship for online levels (surely it would be easier to just tell us the reason rather than the vague "various compliance issues"?). Firstly, Trials Evolution allows online content to be published, and secondly if it was such a big problem, then make the levels accessible offline only. Solved.

To my knowledge all of the level editors of the games you mentioned are vastly different from the level editor in Worms. I'm not sure what the reason is Worms can't have a level editor on consoles, but I doubt you can create cusses or rude images as easily with the editors in Trials Evolution...

[steviebwoy]

Thing is, Thurbo (and I realise we've no right to any insider knowledge), why don't they come out and tell us what the reason actually is? Plus, as I said before, if they don't want users sharing crude images online then just allow us to use them offline.

Regarding the game being complete now, we all know that Team17 are quite happy to release DLC for game features, so if it has gone past the point of no return with the alpha release, why not release an offline editor either as DLC or in an update?

Please don't think I'm slating the company or it's policies, it's just frustrating that a feature so many people were looking forward to - and one that would've really made the game stand out and give people a reason to come back to the series - has been excluded with seemingly no good reason.

[BethanyTeam17]

I also have to mention a game that actually supports uploading gameplay videos... So we need a valid explination about these being left out by Team 17.
We never mentioned it would include this. Whilst we appreciate there are a lot of features our fans would like to see in our games and we take all suggestions on board - this wasn't something that was planned in the feature set.

it's just frustrating that a feature so many people were looking forward to - and one that would've really made the game stand out and give people a reason to come back to the series - has been excluded with seemingly no good reason.
We never said the Editor would be available on PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360. Players can still use the random map generator. I've already answered why here (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=778760&postcount=16) and it is as Plasma said here (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=778792&postcount=18). That's the reason and I'm not going to keep repeating it. Any future posts will just be deleted as duplicate posts are against the forum rules (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=57172). Whilst we appreciate you are upset this has been left out for a good reason and reasons that are out of our hands.

We're confident that there are a lot of new features that make the game stand out: dynamic water, classes, physics objects, extensive single player campaign and puzzles, online and local multiplayer, quality script and narration, customisation... We've already received a lot of positive feedback from the previews and we hope our fans enjoy the title as much as we do. Everyone here is fiercely passionate about the release of Worms Revolution and I honestly believe they've made a fantastic game.

[steviebwoy]

Jeepers. This is ridiculous. You haven't actually stated the reason at all!

The question is simple - why can you not develop the map editor for offline games?

You haven't answered it - you've just babbled something vague about "compliance issues". There's three or four of us on here that feel the same way - that being; you haven't actually answered why if it's a censorship issue it can't be used offline privately?

I've no doubt that you'll delete my post, all we're seeking is a valid answer! Jeepers, we are the paying customers - if you're so passionate about the game why are you being so evasive when faced with a query from your community about it?

Woodbar himself says that Battle Islands has an editor, but that's only because you can't use the maps online - that's exactly what we want! It's frustrating that you think we're asking the same question over and over when we're plainly not being answered in the first place.

I understand that Battle Islands has a level editor, but any landscapes created in it can only be used in private games.

This is the exact feature we're asking for - and we've still not had a valid response as to why it's not in the game! :)

[Melon]

I don't believe the situation is anywhere nearly as simple as you think it is, Worms Battle Islands wasn't on XBox Live Arcade and so didn't have to comply with Microsoft's completely absurd Technical Certification Requirements, requirements that you are not allowed to share online (my understanding is you can find them out for yourself if you pay thousands of dollars for the Xbox Development Kit).

One of the requirements that has been talked about online elsewhere is the content exclusivity requirement which states that games published on other platforms aren't allowed to contain any features that don't exist in the XBLA version, which I imagine was the reason why the PC version was originally not going to come with the level editor as part of the standard package, but I don't think PC versions count so in the end I think that was all a bit of a cock-up.

I believe that the reason why the console versions of the game don't contain a level editor is almost entirely due to Microsoft having ridiculous requirements although Sony might have similar restrictions in place as well. Unfortunately, nobody's allowed to talk about them so I doubt you'll ever get the answer you'll want from Team17.

[steviebwoy]

Melon - you talk sense, and for that you have my thanks :)

All I think any of us needed was an actual response beyond "we've already told you", which until now hasn't been the case.

Cheers mate

[Scrubber]

Guys, can you please stop arguing about this, if they had the ability to do this do you think they would? Sure I'm disappointed too about the consoles not having the level editor, but he EXPLAINED it, and if you think there's some super easy solution to it, then read through all these posts again:

Beth is a HE?

Also the quotes you have posted are invalid, they don't explain why if Trials Evolution can do it why can't worms. Also doesn't explain why custom maps can't be offline only, that would solve any censorship issues.

[Thurbo]

Melon - you talk sense, and for that you have my thanks :)

But all he said was that it's probably because of Microsoft's weird requirements which is what everyone else said as well :confused:

[wild9ride]

To my knowledge all of the level editors of the games you mentioned are vastly different from the level editor in Worms. I'm not sure what the reason is Worms can't have a level editor on consoles, but I doubt you can create cusses or rude images as easily with the editors in Trials Evolution...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7UFMAAVyKo

Obviously, Thurbo keeps the kool-aid to himself.

[steviebwoy]

Beth is a HE?

Also the quotes you have posted are invalid, they don't explain why if Trials Evolution can do it why can't worms. Also doesn't explain why custom maps can't be offline only, that would solve any censorship issues.

The only thing I can think of (and it's not been confirmed, so it's only a guess) is that the censorship issues extend to offline games as well. Though I've no idea why. Can anyone confirm? :)

[bonz]

Console gaming in the past decade has been the death to computer gaming.
If you buy a game for any console instead of PC, you're slowly killing computer gaming and make developers the slaves of Microsoft and Sony, getting them stuck in a vicious circle.

You can play pretty much any PC game perfectly fine on a huge TV screen, with wireless controllers.
Heck, you could even plug in 100+ controllers and play extended on 3 screens.

Consoles are just for the lazy, who get their food chewed for and their shoe laces tied by their parents.
Plus, you voluntarily subject yourself to the will of Microsoft and Sony.

[steviebwoy]

Oh God bonz, that's a bit off-topic mate! I think you have a point, but it's not really relating to the Level Editor is it? :)

[steviebwoy]

For what it's worth, I agree. I also think that having a level editor for the console versions of the game is a great way of extending the game's life and giving customers value for money.

[Thurbo]

Console gaming in the past decade has been the death to computer gaming.
If you buy a game for any console instead of PC, you're slowly killing computer gaming and make developers the slaves of Microsoft and Sony, getting them stuck in a vicious circle.

You can play pretty much any PC game perfectly fine on a huge TV screen, with wireless controllers.
Heck, you could even plug in 100+ controllers and play extended on 3 screens.

Consoles are just for the lazy, who get their food chewed for and their shoe laces tied by their parents.
Plus, you voluntarily subject yourself to the will of Microsoft and Sony.

But several consoles, especially Nintendo consoles, offer unique ways to play games and are vastly different to PC gaming experiences, handhelds allow you to play on the move and a number of games are completely console-exclusive, unfortunately.

Sorry, found your post just too generalized :p I don't have an XBox or a PS3 either, but I've always been interested in consoles like NDS, Wii or PSP because they actually offer something my PC doesn't ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7UFMAAVyKo

Obviously, Thurbo keeps the kool-aid to himself.

Honestly, that doesn't look like that's supposed to be possible. Sony probably just drunk the kool-aid like myself, period :p

[Scrubber]

The only thing I can think of (and it's not been confirmed, so it's only a guess) is that the censorship issues extend to offline games as well. Though I've no idea why. Can anyone confirm? :)

No they don't extend to offline. In Worms 2:Arma and Worms:Ulti my sweary or rude names would stay funny in offline games but be automatically switched to something crap and irrelevant in online games.

[steviebwoy]

Oh. Well in that case the reasons given by Team17 about "compliance issues" are probably a load of old tosh!

[bonz]

But several consoles, especially Nintendo consoles, offer unique ways to play games and are vastly different to PC gaming experiences
That's why I didn't mention Nintendo in my post.
They are actually still doing it pretty ok.
handhelds allow you to play on the move
Handhelds console are obsolete. Nothing that your average smartphone can't do.
Seriously, who really needs to play anything more than a simple puzzle game?
The most time I play "on the move" is for about 10 minutes a day - on the toilet at work!
a number of games are completely console-exclusive, unfortunately.
This is one of the worst things that consoles have caused in the past decade! :eek:
Sony and Microsoft need to pull of those stunts to be able to even sell their overpriced games at all.
Their highly subsidized, overpowered hardware can easily cause them financial losses if it weren't for console exclusives, time-limited exclusives (typically a year before there is a proper PC version, if at all) and of course the generally much higher prices for console games.
Sorry, found your post just too generalized
But sadly, it's the truth.
I don't have an XBox or a PS3 either, but I've always been interested in consoles like NDS, Wii or PSP because they actually offer something my PC doesn't ;)
I won a Wii package (from drinking Jacobs iced coffee in cans) and I got a used PS2 and several games from a friend.
The novelty of the Wiimote wore off pretty fast and I mostly only played the bundled Wii Sports.

[MtlAngelus]

But all he said was that it's probably because of Microsoft's weird requirements which is what everyone else said as well :confused:

The sexy voice probably helps.

All the months i've been looking forward to this game and now i am instantly put off and disappointed.

I will never EVER play games on my PC (which is why i didn't bother with the Worms Golf game) but the PC version has extra features. Surely more people would buy the console versions than PC? Why choose an uncomfortable, impractical, eye aching experience over the comfort of a game controller and a couch/bed. Are they getting compensation?
I am pretty p****d off about this and can only assume the console version will be significantly cheaper due to a fan favorite (and most wanted) feature being completely left out?

Oh, and they get Worms Aramgeddon ASWELL!!!!! Bull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fWUUXeKM

[Shadowmoon]

Get the actual xbox live/PSN on the PC and I'm sure people would do what you said.

In reply to #40

[MtlAngelus]

Get the actual xbox live/PSN on the PC and I'm sure people would do what you said.

In reply to #40

Steam > Xbox Live/PSN

By a looong, loooooooooong shot.

And it even has Big Picture mode now.

[steviebwoy]

I'm sure the mods will be happy that we're not talking about the lack of a level editor for the consoles, but could we get back on topic please?

[MtlAngelus]

I'm sure the mods will be happy that we're not talking about the lack of a level editor for the consoles, but could we get back on topic please?

Who made you the topic police?

[bonz]

The Minister for Interior Topics probably.

[steviebwoy]

Soooo.... any hope for the Level Editor as DLC for the consoles then Team17?

[MtlAngelus]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Scrubber]

I don't even care about the level editor now after hearing that we can't make several teams all customised differently. I'm no longer buying the game at launch as this can't be fixed in that short time but if it's never fixed then i'll be quite sad that i never get to play this game as it's looked so promising all year.

[Star&Moon]

I don't even care about the level editor now after hearing that we can't make several teams all customised differently. I'm no longer buying the game at launch as this can't be fixed in that short time but if it's never fixed then i'll be quite sad that i never get to play this game as it's looked so promising all year.

bethamari already said they were looking into fixing it:

Hi all,

Thanks for your feedback. We've currently got designers looking into this.

[steviebwoy]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

To use your earlier jibe; who made you Team 17? ;)

[MtlAngelus]

To use your earlier jibe; who made you Team 17? ;)

It doesn't matter if I am or not, that is the actual answer to your question.

[steviebwoy]

It doesn't matter if I am or not, that is the actual answer to your question.

Well forgive me if I don't take your assertion as particularly reliable.

[MtlAngelus]

Fine, don't trust me. It'll all end in disappointment and tears.

[steviebwoy]

Okay, um, thanks for your help. Or something.

Team17 - any definitive answer on whether you might release the editor as DLC for consoles?

[Aggressive]

I've got to say, it's quite disappointing the level editor isn't on the console version. My brother and friends who love the Worms games, who used to play on PC but now like to just play on consoles, were really hoping for it to be included. It keeps the game fresh and fun, and adds that much more to the game.

The reason give was that Microsoft and Sony have different standards than Steam does. Likely due to profanity etc. being a factor online.

Which makes no sense. Here's why:

1. The whole "online is unrated" warning every game has. Just because a game is rated E, T, or M, does not mean it has to live up to that online. Online is not rated, and level editor or not, there's going to be profanity. That's online gaming. Every game you play, people can say whatever they want over the mics, name their guys in ways to get around censors, and create custom logos as they please. In Halo you could make profanity using forge. In CoD you could make profanity using symbols/logos. These are 2 of the biggest games, surely Worms is no different.

2. You could make the DLC rated M, to require an adult account in order to download it. So say they can't ship it with the game because it's rated T, they could just as easily release it as free DLC but require an age gate. Keeping kids under 18 from being able to obtain it.

3. You could make it offline/local only. No using custom maps in custom games. Or make it so they're only usable in provate matches. Either or, but the fact is, you can make it so we can still use the editor to play with just our friends, and nobody has to worry about any profanity offending anyone. I'm sure console owners would settle for just a local enabled map editor.

Obviously, it's more due to them not wanting to do what is necessary to get it to their fans. Which is a shame. Once again, console owners get the shaft compared to PC owners in terms of amount of game content and what we get compared to what we pay. So I don't buy into "it's just not an option due to restrictions" one bit, and neither should any of you. That's called a cop-out. Using policies as a scapegoat to hide the real answer "we didn't feel like putting in the extra work for scripting it to be offline only or finding any other way around it, because it's just not worth it to appease console fans".

Any game with a custom editor option is going to far outshine and outlast one without it. So all I have to hope for is people stop playing or caring about this game, even if it's to my disadvantage of not being able to find people online. I just can't stand developers turning their back or keeping a certain part of their fanbase in the dark, when there's ways to make everyone happy.

[PooZy]

I've got to say, it's quite disappointing the level editor isn't on the console version. My brother and friends who love the Worms games, who used to play on PC but now like to just play on consoles, were really hoping for it to be included. It keeps the game fresh and fun, and adds that much more to the game.

The reason give was that Microsoft and Sony have different standards than Steam does. Likely due to profanity etc. being a factor online.

Which makes no sense. Here's why:

1. The whole "online is unrated" warning every game has. Just because a game is rated E, T, or M, does not mean it has to live up to that online. Online is not rated, and level editor or not, there's going to be profanity. That's online gaming. Every game you play, people can say whatever they want over the mics, name their guys in ways to get around censors, and create custom logos as they please. In Halo you could make profanity using forge. In CoD you could make profanity using symbols/logos. These are 2 of the biggest games, surely Worms is no different.

2. You could make the DLC rated M, to require an adult account in order to download it. So say they can't ship it with the game because it's rated T, they could just as easily release it as free DLC but require an age gate. Keeping kids under 18 from being able to obtain it.

3. You could make it offline/local only. No using custom maps in custom games. Or make it so they're only usable in provate matches. Either or, but the fact is, you can make it so we can still use the editor to play with just our friends, and nobody has to worry about any profanity offending anyone. I'm sure console owners would settle for just a local enabled map editor.

Obviously, it's more due to them not wanting to do what is necessary to get it to their fans. Which is a shame. Once again, console owners get the shaft compared to PC owners in terms of amount of game content and what we get compared to what we pay. So I don't buy into "it's just not an option due to restrictions" one bit, and neither should any of you. That's called a cop-out. Using policies as a scapegoat to hide the real answer "we didn't feel like putting in the extra work for scripting it to be offline only or finding any other way around it, because it's just not worth it to appease console fans".

Any game with a custom editor option is going to far outshine and outlast one without it. So all I have to hope for is people stop playing or caring about this game, even if it's to my disadvantage of not being able to find people online. I just can't stand developers turning their back or keeping a certain part of their fanbase in the dark, when there's ways to make everyone happy.

Agreed with this. For example, on the PS3 one of the best games is little big planet. That game is basically a huge editor, and people DO make giant dicks in levels but it's still not rated 18. Anyway maybe we should be directing our debate at sony and microsoft instead, I don't even know.

[Aggressive]

Agreed with this. For example, on the PS3 one of the best games is little big planet. That game is basically a huge editor, and people DO make giant dicks in levels but it's still not rated 18. Anyway maybe we should be directing our debate at sony and microsoft instead, I don't even know.

That's just it though. Obviously it's NOT Microsoft or Sony that's keeping them from having a level editor. As we have both given examples of games that have features that can be used for profanity. There's no reason why this would restrict it in Worms. Online is not rated. It's as simple as that. I just think they have to go through more hoops to get it to work on consoles, and have Microsoft and Sony approve, yet they don't want to put forth the effort. Pass it off as "M$ and Sony have more restrictions so it wouldn't work" when really they could I'm sure, they just don't want to do what's necessary.

Not only that, but I listed other ways around it. Not allowing them online being one. That can't be that difficult.

[XRiZUX]

I've got to say, it's quite disappointing the level editor isn't on the console version. My brother and friends who love the Worms games, who used to play on PC but now like to just play on consoles, were really hoping for it to be included. It keeps the game fresh and fun, and adds that much more to the game.

The reason give was that Microsoft and Sony have different standards than Steam does. Likely due to profanity etc. being a factor online.

Which makes no sense. Here's why:

1. The whole "online is unrated" warning every game has. Just because a game is rated E, T, or M, does not mean it has to live up to that online. Online is not rated, and level editor or not, there's going to be profanity. That's online gaming. Every game you play, people can say whatever they want over the mics, name their guys in ways to get around censors, and create custom logos as they please. In Halo you could make profanity using forge. In CoD you could make profanity using symbols/logos. These are 2 of the biggest games, surely Worms is no different.

2. You could make the DLC rated M, to require an adult account in order to download it. So say they can't ship it with the game because it's rated T, they could just as easily release it as free DLC but require an age gate. Keeping kids under 18 from being able to obtain it.

3. You could make it offline/local only. No using custom maps in custom games. Or make it so they're only usable in provate matches. Either or, but the fact is, you can make it so we can still use the editor to play with just our friends, and nobody has to worry about any profanity offending anyone. I'm sure console owners would settle for just a local enabled map editor.

Obviously, it's more due to them not wanting to do what is necessary to get it to their fans. Which is a shame. Once again, console owners get the shaft compared to PC owners in terms of amount of game content and what we get compared to what we pay. So I don't buy into "it's just not an option due to restrictions" one bit, and neither should any of you. That's called a cop-out. Using policies as a scapegoat to hide the real answer "we didn't feel like putting in the extra work for scripting it to be offline only or finding any other way around it, because it's just not worth it to appease console fans".

Any game with a custom editor option is going to far outshine and outlast one without it. So all I have to hope for is people stop playing or caring about this game, even if it's to my disadvantage of not being able to find people online. I just can't stand developers turning their back or keeping a certain part of their fanbase in the dark, when there's ways to make everyone happy.

Good points in this post. It makes a lot of sense, and I agree to all of it. Even so I'm afraid the PC will always be the best choice for Worms titles, no matter what we have to say I don't think that will change. I think there will always be some restrictions when releasing to Xbox / PS3 / etc, in which case the price should be lowered when content is left out.

It's not fair in a sense, but that's the reality we are facing.

Buying Worms titles for the PS3 in my experience is mostly a good choice if you are planning to play with friends in the same room, while PC is the best choice if you want the most out of the Worms titles.

[Melon]

I think there will always be some restrictions when releasing to Xbox / PS3 / etc, in which case the price should be lowered when content is left out.
It's funny because this reasoning was exactly why the level editor on PC was originally DLC. The reason given was that it made everyone on all three platforms have an identical base game with PC-only extras costing a bit extra.

Of course people went ape so now it's part of the standard package, and now people are back to arguing that it should be DLC because it's more fair.

[XRiZUX]

It's funny because this reasoning was exactly why the level editor on PC was originally DLC. The reason given was that it made everyone on all three platforms have an identical base game with PC-only extras costing a bit extra.

Of course people went ape so now it's part of the standard package, and now people are back to arguing that it should be DLC because it's more fair.

I agree that the level editor should be a DLC for all platforms though. I'm just thinking; "what if they're not able to make it into a DLC for Xbox & PS3 for whatever reason?"

And I think that's what we all want to know, why it's not possible.

[steviebwoy]

The really frustrating part of it is that Team 17 haven't even bothered to answer why it's not included (aside from a meaningless "compliance issue" generic deflection), or whether it could come as DLC for consoles. Even if it's just for offline games, that would be something. Their generic response doesn't actually make any sense at all, and I don't even think it's true. If it is, how can Little Big Planet, Joe Danger and Trials Evolution (to name a few) all feature perfectly working level editors?

It really does add a lot to the game, and it's a real shame that it's not on there. So much so that I've actually avoided buying the game altogether, in spite of being an active beta tester.

One point I should make, is the fact that 2,100 people have read this thread means that a lot of people care about it! And still we've had nothing of value from someone who can answer our question properly. Same old developer attitude I guess - "as long as enough people buy it, who cares?"

Great work, Team 17!

[BethanyTeam17]

We have answered this numerous times, both in this thread and on Facebook, Twitter etc.

I'm closing this thread as it just keeps looping back around, the original question has been answered.

But thank you for everyones opinions, they've been taken on board.