View Full Version : manual worms placement
mangeclous
9 Jan 2012, 18:17
i dont find the option to place the worms manually. Maybe i have to buy a DLC or this great option doesn't exist in this version ?
I'm pretty sure T17 are set on not having manual placement now. For whatever reason.
Yeah, I agree that this is pure stupidity, that it isn't in the game from the very creation of the game. I mean it makes the game unbalanced. It's not up to strategy at that point, the game is 30% strategy, the rest is automatic "random" worm placement on match start, and who ever drowns each other's worms the fastest to get a huge advantage over the other player. Seriously guys? Why isn't "manual placement of worms" in the game? This makes no sense to me as to why this shouldn't be in the game, it's a Worms title for Worm God's sake.
I hope you guys in Team17 won't leave the game to die this way. It's a shame really. It makes me depressed to see this game dying that way, I see less and less people playing every day, and it's not long before no one will play the game, believe my words. I don't think anyone wants to play a random match a thousand times every day, I believe a Worms player should respect strategy above unbalanced randomness.
Of course, these are just my opinions- and over a hundred thousand other people's opinion which have played and enjoyed older Worms titles. At least fix the issues with the game if this isn't going to show up, at least you guys could do that. No offense intended by the way, sorry if my posts seem offensive, I'm just a good fan for the Worms titles, and expected "manual placement of worms- (at match start)" when I bought it.
Other than that, I hope this game doesn't die this way, there has already been expansion packs created for the game and unleashed to be bought by your fans. And to add on that, of course that "expands the game experience" - Although it doesn't "justify" the lack of manual worm placement at match start. The game is still unbalanced, keep that in mind please.
How you can actually add "manual worm placement- at match start" for Forts modes:
(Functions Suggestions)
Split the screen "worm placement zone" into two. Player 1 (and possibly Player 2) on the left side on their fort would only be able to place their worms on that side, as the cursor would not be allowed to be moved to the other half of the screen. In this way we would place our worms ONLY on our own fort, in this way the Forts modes would become; (hold your breathe, not too long though) "Balanced" - Yes I said it. Balanced. :eek:
Please, Team17, I beg you- Consider at least giving the Forts modes this ability. Thanks for reading. ;)
Wouldn't manual placements in forts unbalance the scheme even more? Some forts can be very advantagous and also have bad spots for your team to spawn in. In the long run, manual placements on forts will result in there being *the* ultimate fort everyone uses.
No, I for instance am using the pyramide for good reasons.
Manual placements in forts -> not a chance.
Btw the Worms series has always been working with random placements, Worms Armageddon, World Party and 3D are the only exceptions and even there barely anyone uses that mode. Manual placements would certainly be a nice addition to the game but it's not like the gameplay were broken without it.
Luck is part of the game - it's impossible to make Worms a completely even game for there are just too many factors. Starting with it being turn-based thus someone always gets an advantage.
Luck is part of the game - it's impossible to make Worms a completely even game for there are just too many factors. Starting with it being turn-based thus someone always gets an advantage.
Yes, luck is a part of any game that exists actually. But you should agree that it's not fair to have 3 of your worms placed at the edge of your fort at game start, and having your opponent blast all 3 of them into the water, at your own turn you only have one worm left.
This means your opponent only has to worry about one target through the rest of the match. Sure it is likely that you can take out 1 of his worms at your first turn, or even 2 of his worms, but at this point- in my honest opinion, the game has "too much luck". Yes, I said it, too much luck. :eek:
I mean come'on, it's a strategy game. If you could place your worms you would at least have a greater sense of strategy. The strategy cap would go from 30% to 80% which is a lot better in my opinion.
What I'm saying is that I feel the game is too random in this title. I would love to have 80% strategy. I prefer to think about my next move instead of thinking "Oh what the hell- anything could happen so I'll just go to the kitchen and make food while I wait for random to happen..."
Because basically, when your worms are altered close to "none" that easily at the start of the match, without you deciding even where they are positioned, the game does feel too random. It feels like the game is almost playing itself. Like what you really do is just get the crate drops and health drops and "hope" that the next worm of yours which is placed next to a oil drum (100% against your own strategy) won't be blown up by the next player.
Surely you can see the sense in what I'm saying here? There will always be luck in the game, but at this point it's ridiculous. The starting of any match is randomized. To the point where I really don't give a damn about my own strategy, because it's useless to even start thinking until you have one worm left.
And as a side note; I play the Worms titles with strategy, not based purely on dumb luck. You should realize I am very disappointed after reading this. :-/
Squirminator2k
20 Mar 2012, 18:54
That's exactly why were all saying start with giving us our own choice in spawn positioning and giving each player a crate drop if one gets one. That'll deffiantly help the problem of this game being mostly luck.
Wait, wait, hang on - you think that if one player gets a weapon crate... all the players should get one?
Poker is hardly a fair game either. Or Ludo. Or any game using dices, yet many people play and enjoy these or am I mistaken there?
As I said before luck is part of the game and getting a completely fair match is impossible due to the mechanics of Worms. One time you are playing under unlucky circumstances and one time the other player is, but if you are the unlucky one it's time to show your skill. Win against the odds, show you are the smarter one. A skilled player would always win more frequently. It's even possible to win 1 vs 4 if you just know how to.
EDIT: Oh hey XRiZUX. Looks like your post just appeared. Did you know Worms is often categorized as an "action" game? It's much more than strategy and that's just the way it is I'm afraid.
Also it's not that random. It's not "anything can happen". You have a number of possibilities you need to consider before making your move, also based on what is more likely. Plus huge skill involved. Someone playing strategic won't have a chance if he couldn't aim and use tools properly.
Example - You could win a Forts game within 6 to 8 turns if you are absolutely perfect at aiming, yet you would sometimes consider to hide rather than to shoot. Why? Certainly not because you COULDN'T shoot and hit the enemy, rather because you are aware of your skills and decide it's a better idea to hide.
So Worms -> not purely a strategy game like Chess, but a combination of Strategy, Action and Luck.
Yes, luck is a part of any game that exists actually. But you should agree that it's not fair to have 3 of your worms placed at the edge of your fort at game start, and having your opponent blast all 3 of them into the water, at your own turn you only have one worm left.
Eh let's be honest there. How often does that actually happen? Maybe 1 in 15 times and personally I haven't seen such a placement in all the forts matches for months. It's not even really possibly since Worms can't group up when being auto-placed, or am I mistaken there?
Squirminator2k
20 Mar 2012, 21:07
Well, if your saying if your opponent gets a weapon crate then yes you should recieve one as well or make no weapon crates available at all. It's not fair to give one player 6-7 crates and you none or just 1-2. Hows that fair? I won't even argue with that but even to say im good enough to beat someone with all the crate drops but doesn't make it easy or fair and makes me very madd.
Worms is a game of chance as much as it is a game of skill. If this is something you genuinely, genuinely have a serious issue with I'd suggest you go back to playing... whatever it is you usually play instead of Worms.
That's exactly why were all saying start with giving us our own choice in spawn positioning and giving each player a crate drop if one gets one. That'll deffiantly help the problem of this game being mostly luck.
I don't know if im getting through to you, but I hope you can understand. Unless your just going against everything to keep it fair to the maximum for both players and if your one of those players who does like always getting unfair games by blowing they're 3 worms into water and picking up 6-7 crates on your base therefore giving you the win and making the opponent suffer the whole game. Which 95% of us would agree to get our own spawn position option and giving each player a crate if your opponent gets one you get one to keep it fair.
Then, your response of replying in nonsense.
Final Destination.
Poker is hardly a fair game either. Or Ludo. Or any game using dices, yet many people play and enjoy these or am I mistaken there?
As I said before luck is part of the game and getting a completely fair match is impossible due to the mechanics of Worms. One time you are playing under unlucky circumstances and one time the other player is, but if you are the unlucky one it's time to show your skill. Win against the odds, show you are the smarter one. A skilled player would always win more frequently. It's even possible to win 1 vs 4 if you just know how to.
EDIT: Oh hey XRiZUX. Looks like your post just appeared. Did you know Worms is often categorized as an "action" game? It's much more than strategy and that's just the way it is I'm afraid.
Also it's not that random. It's not "anything can happen". You have a number of possibilities you need to consider before making your move, also based on what is more likely. Plus huge skill involved. Someone playing strategic won't have a chance if he couldn't aim and use tools properly.
Example - You could win a Forts game within 6 to 8 turns if you are absolutely perfect at aiming, yet you would sometimes consider to hide rather than to shoot. Why? Certainly not because you COULDN'T shoot and hit the enemy, rather because you are aware of your skills and decide it's a better idea to hide.
So Worms -> not purely a strategy game like Chess, but a combination of Strategy, Action and Luck.
Eh let's be honest there. How often does that actually happen? Maybe 1 in 15 times and personally I haven't seen such a placement in all the forts matches for months. It's not even really possibly since Worms can't group up when being auto-placed, or am I mistaken there?
The worms can be spawned almost ontop of each other in Forts modes, and I am talking about the start of the match obviously. I don't disagree about the rest, I am well aware of how the Worms titles are, but this one specifically does not have manual worm placement at the start of a match, this is what I find ridiculous. As I said above it is currently around 30% strategy give or take; because of the automatic random worm placement at game start. If we could place our worms tactically, that would bring the strategy up to around 80%.
Getting your 2 or 3 worms placed right beside two oil drums and a couple of mines at match start is not cool with me. Maybe you "don't care" about this issue, but I do, it has been a pain in the ass when trying to find a good match through PSN.
And yeah, Worms titles require skill as much as strategy, the luck I care less about, because any game has luck. So I wouldn't make my argument "well this game has luck, so who cares, its a luck game" it's not even an argument. This game has strategy, but when you are forced to have your worms placed badly at the start of a match, that's not cool with me, it ruins the strategy (fun) of the game.
Also, if you would compare this to Poker (Texas Hold 'Em) then how would you like to have the dealer decide whether you should bet or fold? - That's what this is about. When I lose 3 worms from oppnent's first turn, I just commit suicide with my last worm, because that's not even funny. If that was Poker (Texas Hold 'Em) you could compare that to having the dealer tell you after you raise that you have to fold. And then you play again and the dealer says "Go ahead, fold your damn cards. You wont win anyways. Do it."
You probably can not see this frustration, but I do, every time it happens. And it's not how I enjoy the Worms titles, I always enjoyed placing my worms out specifically in order, making up for the strategy of the next turns. Not the automatic random worm placement which basically dumbs down the strategy of the game.
Sure I still play the game, but it's not much compared to how much I would play it if it had manual worm placement. The multiplayer feels like a Worms demo to me, no kidding. Doesn't feel like a complete multiplayer.
If you find another way to argue about this, I really don't have anything more to say, this is what I think and how I feel. There's no other way to explain the frustration, besides giving details of every 500+ time this has happened. Sure enough it does not happen every match, but it doesn't feel far from it, which is just as bad. If you don't like manual worm placement, I hope Team17 makes it optional, and allows us to host customized game modes for online playing, without having to make them a friend first. :eek: Nah, who am I kidding, this title will most probably die this way... Sad...
Squirminator2k
21 Mar 2012, 01:39
XRiZUX, you are adorable. Seriously. Never, ever change.
I thought that was a valid enough post up there. On WA, the placement algorithm definitely feels less cruel and anyway, we play the default schemes with more worms and/or on more complex maps and/or best of three, so the placement luck evens out a lot quicker. Can't do any of that in the third generation 2D titles.
Well, you could play other games if luck bothers you so much.
I'm not sure what you are on about with three worms killed in the first turn, this cannot possibly happen or is extremely, extremely unlikely since the spawn algorithm doesn't allow objects or other worms spawn near a worm. Unless, of course, I'm mistaken and the spawn algorithm in W2:A is different from Reloaded.
Btw random placements is still random in W:A. Also if your opponent collects a 3x rope crate in a pro deathmatch you are screwed, luck is existent in all incarnations of the series.
I actually prefer the current system. Last night we had a guy trying to decide where to teleport to at the top of the terrain... FOR TWO MINUTES. Not to mention he could've roped there in less than 10 seconds. Can you imagine how long he would've took to manually place four worms?
Well I see now. We are talking about two different games though three posts ago I was sure the mechanics were the same.
Yeah, I was indeed mistaken and remember the facts now... When Worms Reloaded released people complaimed about worms grouping up at the start of the match leading to massive group kills. They fixed that issue in a patch with the new spawn algorithm I explained before and I thought they'd done the same with W2:A. Sorry.
Nontheless Worms is about luck and this will never change. Even if you get the gameplay as even as possible* somone would have to have the first turn and thus be advantaged, no matter if you add manual placements or not.
*To achieve this you'd have to remove crate drops, landscape objects and just remove any random algorithm from the game. It's not possible.
Well I see now. We are talking about two different games though three posts ago I was sure the mechanics were the same.
Yeah, I was indeed mistaken and remember the facts now... When Worms Reloaded released people complaimed about worms grouping up at the start of the match leading to massive group kills. They fixed that issue in a patch with the new spawn algorithm I explained before and I thought they'd done the same with W2:A. Sorry.
Nontheless Worms is about luck and this will never change. Even if you get the gameplay as even as possible* somone would have to have the first turn and thus be advantaged, no matter if you add manual placements or not.
*To achieve this you'd have to remove crate drops, landscape objects and just remove any random algorithm from the game. It's not possible.
Assuming anything does indeed not make your arguments valid to this point. My experience comes directly from "PS3 (Worms 2: Armageddon)" - I know that many things in the Worms titles are randomized. But to see that this game doesn't even have the option of having manual worm placement is a big issue for me, and as you should know; to many other players as well.
If you never used manual worm placement for the Worms titles, I don't see why you would even argue about this, as from my knowledge it was usually "optional". As this is for people being used to it and therefore understanding this issue 100%.
I know that the crate drops are random, however they shouldn't be for the Forts modes, for obvious reasons. It should also have the option for having manual worm placement, for those who think it's totally ridiculous to have the game decide whether you should have a huge advantage at match start or if the other player should by random chance.
There are many other factors that are important in the Worms titles, skill being the number one important factor. How you are able to hit another worm from distance with a grenade, etc.
The luck in this game is not what should be focused on when making an argument.
Quoting your reasoning here:
"somone would have to have the first turn and thus be advantaged"
Of course, it is a turn based game. But if you could manually place your worms at match start, you could avoid having them placed "idioticly". And thus; the game would be a lot better, it would feel more complete. And best of all I would stop "complaining" about it in the forum or anywhere else.
Also, someone above said a guy used a lot of time to decide things. There could be a timer for placing your worms manually as well. If you fail to place it within the 10 seconds, it would be placed random. Giving the next player a decision where to place his worm.
I see no reason at all why people would argue about this, it's clear that everyone would benefit from this if it was optional. Enough said. :eek:
Squirminator2k
21 Mar 2012, 18:39
You guys know manual worm placement wasn't even in the first four Worms games, right? Yet somehow we all managed to get along just fine.
You guys know manual worm placement wasn't even in the first four Worms games, right? Yet somehow we all managed to get along just fine.
Mhm. And the titles evolved, they became better by having the option of having manual worm placement at match starts.
Of course we didn't care much about it until we started using it. Believe me, it does change the game a lot. And you should know the difference if you have played with it.
The game becomes more strategic because you are able to place the worms how you want at the start of a match.
Obviously, what it does is, it lets you decide where you want your worms to start out when either your opponent(s) or yourself start playing the match. From turn 1 to the ending turn.
Side Note:
Also, the fact that you can't "Continue" playing after you have won the match, or the opponent has won, is stupid. Why should this only be possible when it's a draw? - In my opinion, this game is dumbed down. I mostly hope they fix the issues with it, if it dies like this I won't buy another Team17 game. This one definitely did not amaze me at the least. I liked the expansions, but other than that, the game still has a whole bunch of issues. Another thing I don't like about it, is that you have to invite a friend to be able to play customized modes. It just feels stupid, hope they fix the obvious issues at least. :eek:
I never argued against manual worm placement, just trying to explain Worms isn't purely a strategy game, not even 80% either. Those three main factors, Luck, Skill and Strategy are indivisble, very collateral. As in, you think strategically and move your worm to a position you believe to be safe, however your enemy is skilled enough to hit you anyway. Maybe he was only lucky actually, however you were definetely unlucky - you couldn't know how skilled your opponent really was.
I understand your point though, before that patch for the spawn algorithm Worms were literally stacking so three worms of the same team near a cliff was definitely possible and rather annoying. I don't see why they didn't patch that issue for W2:A as well.
Squirminator2k
21 Mar 2012, 19:52
Also, the fact that you can't "Continue" playing after you have won the match, or the opponent has won, is stupid.
...What?
Also, it sounds like what you basically want is Worms Armageddon. So go buy that.
@Thurbo
That's good that you don't disagree about the manual worm placement being a good thing to be implemented into Worms 2: Armageddon. And also "Worms: Reloaded" for that matter, I suppose that's what you are thinking about, as it is basically the "epic PC upgrade" to Worms 2: Armageddon. Unfortunately I only got to see this AFTER I purchased it for the PS3, I hope I don't have to lose money just because of that.
@Squirminator2k
"...What?"
I am talking about when you play against someone online "PSN" in this matter; if you win the match, or the opponent wins; you are brought back to the main menu screen. You are not welcomed with the option "Continue" in order to play another match with that player, or players for that matter. This "Continue" option only shows up if you get a draw; everyone is dead on the last turn.
Now tell me, is this stupid? Or do you LOVE that it is like this? - In my opinion it's stupid.
"Also ..."
I'm not going to buy "Worms Armageddon" (today) just because I thought Worms Armageddon was dead at the time when I bought "Worms 2: Armageddon" - Make sense much? This game as the title implies, should be better than Worms Armageddon, instead it isn't, it's a total downgrade to it.
Now ask me something important.
@Worms_PRO
I agree to your posts completely, shouldn't be a surprise...
I know I'm in the W2:A forums. W2:A is very similar to Reloaded though. I had no idea about the different spawn algorithm.
I'm only agreeing manual placement would be somewhat a nice option, doesn't mean I'd be going to use it. I find it usually more exciting when it's random.
If they added it I suppose it should be as in Worms Battle Islands; each player gets about 30 seconds to choose his worms' positions without knowing where the enemy places his own.
I know I'm in the W2:A forums. W2:A is very similar to Reloaded though. I had no idea about the different spawn algorithm.
I'm only agreeing manual placement would be somewhat a nice option, doesn't mean I'd be going to use it. I find it usually more exciting when it's random.
If they added it I suppose it should be as in Worms Battle Islands; each player gets about 30 seconds to choose his worms' positions without knowing where the enemy places his own.
Derp...
"If they added it I suppose it should be as in Worms Battle Islands; each player gets about 30 seconds to choose his worms' positions without knowing where the enemy places his own."
I don't want that, then the opponent's worm could be right next to mine when the match starts. The strategic point of view would be "derped" in that way. Because I would have no idea where the opponent would place his worms, in that way it would ALMOST be the same as playing with how it is now; random automatic worm positioning. Which is what I'm against in the Worms titles.
If they were going to make it that way, they would have to make an option within the option, saying something like this:
Manual Spawn [Elite] (Check)
Manual Spawn [Random] (Unchecked)
Because I want the strategy to be turned up a notch, not randomized once again.
Squirminator2k
21 Mar 2012, 22:14
Oh, Lord.
Manual worm placement does not "turn [the strategy] up a notch". It just augments the strategy.
Jesus f***.
Oh, Lord.
Manual worm placement does not "turn [the strategy] up a notch". It just augments the strategy.
Jesus f***.
Derp... Herp... Nerf... Burp... Etc...
"It just augments the strategy."
Yes it does, it makes the strategy better. Not too much, but just enough to make the game more enjoyable.
You seem like a cool guy so you should understand. :eek:
I could go in-depth about explaining exactly why, but you also seem lazy, so I will save that for later, if anyone need a in-depth explanation as to why it would make the strategy better; go ahead and ask me. :eek:
Squirminator2k
21 Mar 2012, 22:52
Want manual Worm placement? Buy Worms Armageddon. It's less than half the price of Worms Reloaded, and it's an objectively better game.
Want manual Worm placement? Buy Worms Armageddon. It's less than half the price of Worms Reloaded, and it's an objectively better game.
And then came the next title...
"Worms 3: Armageddon Evolutions of Epic Harmony"
Game includes:
The game plays itself for the most part, but it's a lot of fun, you can still customize your worm teams, with 1000,000 new voices to listen to, the game has never been more fun in Team17 history! - Also exclusively for this title, the forts modes are already in one package! - Now with only one worm in each fort, automatically played by the game for your own great excitement of watching your worm drown in SLOW MOTION REPLAY?! Oh yes, that's just the tip of the iceberg. You can also let the game play by itself online to watch your worms die in every way you sucked at doing last year, the worms now have the red cape from the Super Sheep, and can fly at any upcoming turn! - DO NOT MISS OUT, besides it's only worth 100$. Buy now for the discount! - Next month it will be 200$ !!!
Seriously though... I already bought this game "Worms 2: Armageddon" and I expect it to be like "Worms Reloaded" - Why? Because it's the same damn game, just that "Reloaded" is on the PC, and is updated more often, with fixes.
So at least, Worms 2: Armageddon should be "exactly" like Worms Reloaded. So please fix the issues, you probably are fixing them already, sorry for repeating myself.
The first things you(Team17) should fix:
Fix the placeable turret in team mode;
It shoots the same teamed worms.
Fix the forts issues in customize team for PS3;
I don't even have the Pyramid fort. Seems like I only have the regular forts to be honest, and they are mixed up in the "Forts Pro" selection. Doesn't make sense at all, big issue.
Squirminator2k
22 Mar 2012, 01:56
I already bought this game "Worms 2: Armageddon" and I expect it to be like "Worms Reloaded" - Why? Because it's the same damn game, just that "Reloaded" is on the PC, and is updated more often, with fixes.
Sigh.
I didn't say "Worms 2: Armageddon". I said "Worms Armageddon (http://worms2d.info/Worms_Armageddon)". Do pay attention.
Sigh.
I didn't say "Worms 2: Armageddon". I said "Worms Armageddon (http://worms2d.info/Worms_Armageddon)". Do pay attention.
I am aware that you said "Worms Armageddon" - However that is a older title. And as I've said before, I didn't expect "Worms 2: Armageddon" to be a downgrade when I purchased it, a long- long time ago. To be honest, the only thing which makes it a "downgrade" is the lack of manual worm positioning at match start.
I'm however on this forum in intention of making "Worms 2: Armageddon" a better game, more enjoyable in other words.
And I understand that some people just can't see the reason why manual worm positioning at match start would make the game more enjoyable. Because they haven't used it that much. And telling me to play a older title really does not help the fact that Worms 2: Armageddon has many issues that still hasn't been fixed.
I doubt they will make a manual worm positioning option for this game though, but I'm here to make sure they get the message right; I really don't like that it's gone for this game. It leaves me in the dust. I'm tempted to play Worms Armageddon again though, just because of this. Hope we can get some words from the developer team, to see if they are considering making some changes for Worms 2: Armageddon, if they are going to add manual worm positioning or not.
In the least, they should fix the other issues, there's no reason why the game should be left with a whole bunch of issues until it dies. Considering Worms Reloaded still gets fixed up, it's not good for the company to let this title down, and not good for the fans either.
Squirminator2k
22 Mar 2012, 18:03
Yes. Obviously. Golly gee, you sure got my number.
Look, if an opponent gets a crate, that doesn't automatically give them an advantage. It just means they have one more weapon than you do. Not all weapons can be used in all circumstances, and just because someone collects, say, a Banana Bomb, doesn't mean they're going to be able to use it during the course of a game.
Beating a player with "better" weapons than you? That takes skill. Worms players have been doing it since 1995. It's a pity you seem unwilling or unable to develop that skill.
Yes. Obviously. Golly gee, you sure got my number.
Look, if an opponent gets a crate, that doesn't automatically give them an advantage. It just means they have one more weapon than you do. Not all weapons can be used in all circumstances, and just because someone collects, say, a Banana Bomb, doesn't mean they're going to be able to use it during the course of a game.
Beating a player with "better" weapons than you? That takes skill. Worms players have been doing it since 1995. It's a pity you seem unwilling or unable to develop that skill.
It's worse if the crate he gets is a Bunker Buster, and you have only one worm left with 30 HP, while he has two worms, one worm with 46 HP and one with 73 HP.
In this situation, it's not "fair" in a Forts mode. It becomes lame actually, I don't see why you would enjoy this happening near the ending turns of the match.
And just because this doesn't happen every match, that's not to say it doesn't happen. And it's just as lame every time it does.
In another mode this would be more accepted, but in Forts mode it really is not cool that it is that way, that's my opinion at least.
And I have played the Forts modes for quite a long time, you could imagine over 1000 matches, around half of them, let's say 258, this lame situation happens.
And I think that ruins the "competition" of the Forts mode. Any other mode I really wouldn't care about where the crates drop, because then the territory is for every team.
Conclusion:
The crate drops should equalize in Forts modes, the same crate should drop on each fort (not too close to the worm) OR (dropped right before your turn "when it becomes your turn" so you can pick it up immediately). What this would do is equalize the Forts mode, in such a way that you couldn't say it's unfair, the only thing remaining would be the lack of manual worm positioning before match start.
Squirminator2k
22 Mar 2012, 18:38
And I have played the Forts modes for quite a long time, you could imagine over 1000 matches, around half of them, let's say 258, this lame situation happens.
Might want to double-check your math, there.
Look, luck is a big part of what makes Worms the game it is. It's as much about luck as it is about skill. Sometimes things happen in the game that aren't "fair", but they happen. Random crate drops happen. Deal with it.
Might want to double-check your math, there.
Look, luck is a big part of what makes Worms the game it is. It's as much about luck as it is about skill. Sometimes things happen in the game that aren't "fair", but they happen. Random crate drops happen. Deal with it.
As I said, I wouldn't care about the crate drops in any other mode of Worms. The only one I have a issue about this with is the Forts modes. The reason you ask? - It's because it dumbs down the strategy, once again. If you can just drop a Bunker Buster on your opponent which only has one worm left with 30 HP - It's just not fun nor cool. It feels lame doing it to your opponent as much as it does to end the match this way. And I don't have to check my math, the number is quite on target, it's not far off.
I would like to see the Forts modes more competitive, as the other modes are more random in perspective. I have played this game a lot so I know what I'm talking about. It makes no sense why the Forts modes should be that randomized, when the perspective is about competition. It really makes no sense to me why it is that way.
And before you say anything; what's your reason in arguing about luck? - We all know that luck is a part of the game. This however; is a different value.
Please value the fun parts of the game, and please try to understand that what I'm saying is not about ruining the game experience, it's about improving it to be more enjoyable for every player.
Squirminator2k
22 Mar 2012, 19:23
Here's the thing, though - people have been playing Forts games in Worms for over a decade. You are probably the first person to actively complain about "unfair" crate drops in a Forts match. Nobody, literally nobody else cares. Nobody who's been playing the game for any length of time, anyway.
Here's the thing, though - people have been playing Forts games in Worms for over a decade. You are probably the first person to actively complain about "unfair" crate drops in a Forts match. Nobody, literally nobody else cares. Nobody who's been playing the game for any length of time, anyway.
I thought about "complaining" as you put it so beautifully, the first day I played this game, for the reason that "manual placement of worms before match start" was gone from this title. The crate thing really can't compare in annoyance scale to the fact that "manual placement of worms before match start" is non-existent in this title.
Having said that, I could care less about the changes for the crate drops, so I will drop my crate at that.
The most important fact is that "manual worm placement before match start" is non-existent. That is the very first reason why I came to this forum. And it most probably will be the last reason. It's the only thing that annoys me above all else issues in this title. Just adding that would make me very happy, and probably make my reason for posting here close to non-existent.
I'm not here to argue though, if you can't see my point of view then too bad. I'm not asking for everyone to see the game exactly the same way I do.
Squirminator2k
23 Mar 2012, 04:37
squirminator2k, You are probably oviously the one that is in the trueskill rank of 2000 or probably near there. So why would I care what you say about this game doesn't need this or it does need something....?
Truth be told I don't actually know my TrueSkill™ rank. I can honestly say it's one of the least important things to know about pretty much anybody in the entire world.
For the crate drops it doesn't make it fair at all giving the opponent bananna bomb and let say he gets 6-7 more crates which (75%) it does happen...
75% of all crate drops happen to the other player? In all games? That everybody plays? You realize that's mathematically impossible, right?
But I'm interrupting. Do continue.
...they recieve more good things like earthquake, super bunker buster, bunker buster, super sheep, and a holy hand garnade. Then the opponent only gets MAYBE 1 or 2 crates which are a mine and petrol bomb.
It's all about making it close to fair with the ranked forts giving us spawn positions and crate drop for one base then the turn next also he gets a crate drop off to make it FAIR
You are, I swear to God, the most hilarious person who has ever joined this forum. Please, never ever change.
Shadowmoon
23 Mar 2012, 08:02
Dunno why your ranting on about Trueskill, the games like almost 3 years old now, why would anyone actually care :L
Want manual Worm placement? Buy Worms Armageddon. It's less than half the price of Worms Reloaded, and it's an objectively better game.
What no. As stated before I believe StarCraft is just the game for him. Likewise a strategy title, it's a subjectively objectively better game than Worms Armageddon involving a clickedy lot of micro-management action and barely any luck at all.
Squirminator2k
23 Mar 2012, 16:03
Again, I submit that 75% of all crate drops that every player encounters occurring for the other is mathematically impossible. You are either exaggerating, or falling victim to confirmation bias, or both.
Again, I submit that 75% of all crate drops that every player encounters occurring for the other is mathematically impossible. You are either exaggerating, or falling victim to confirmation bias, or both.
... *Facepalm*
Of course he is exaggerating. But that doesn't change the fact that this does happen in the Forts modes. And just for it happening will need some tweaks in my opinion.
At least remove crate drops from the ending turns, that would help. Because either side at that point could get a Bunker Buster, having a Bunker Buster as the final decision is never cool, never was, never has been. That's all I'll ask for with the crate drops for the Forts modes.
Carry on...
Yes, I do know how?
When they drop 2-3 crates on my opponents base, that basically means he will 75% sure of getting crate drops till the end of the match actually im 100% sure and will give him the advantage with getting wind to parachute over and for me most likely wont give me wind if needed to parachute "Giving him the upperhand till he wins the game" which isn't fair.
NOTE: Meaning I will not mostly likely 75% get any crates if I do might be a mine or petrol bomb.
EXPERIENCED IT MANY MANY GAMES!
I agree to this, has happened to me many times. Although about the '75%' I would disagree, it has happened to me around '30%' of the matches. Even so, it's just as bad.
Because the drops are randomized by chance, everyone will have a different percentage of times it has happened to them. In fact, to one player it could be near '5%' or none at all if he didn't play enough times. (Fact).
Edit:
Oh crap, I made a mistake, you meant 75% it could happen. Well even so, goes for the same...
XRiZUX, Well im going off the percentage of my games within 1000+ games of forts. Once they drop 2-3 crates within 17 minutes of the game they'll drop them constantly through out the rest of the game and I might recieve maybe 1 crate drop or might get lucky with 2 how this even fair though and this is a great percentage of the game I play in forts.
Even my buddies say this so I am not alone on this one FACT.
I play 2vs2 private matches (US/Canada)
I will say once my opponent team gets a crate or two within beginning of the game they'll keep recieving them and I can't really say no more since I see it all the time actually surprise you haven't seen this yet XRiZUX. They'll get them exspecially when im 1000+ game total and if I play a 50 game player, they'll help them out with giving me bad (Spawn positions, least crate drops giving them more crates non-stop) I know this like i said about within 17-18 minutes of the game they'll recieve crate drops till the rest of the game.
Sorry about the long read.
No, I know that you meant that. It's why I agreed, I just confused the percentages. lol sorry.
But yeah, it has happened to me around 30% of the Forts modes matches I've played. To me I can basically say as a fact that it's a big issue.
Well, you are a very lucky person not to experience it...
All in all crate drops arn't needed in forts it's all about skills destroying who base with better hits with bazooka or grenades.
No, I said it has happened to me 30% (times) of all the matches I have played, so I have experienced it quite many times. From 1000 matches, 30% would be 300 matches, to be more specific.
"All in all crate drops arn't needed in forts it's all about skills destroying who base with better hits with bazooka or grenades."
Agree. I prefer skill in this mode, not random luck lol.
LMAO...
Well be ready to hear something from worminator2k or somebody else disagreeing that is probably rank 2000+ trueskill which I don't care because its all unfair luck in this game and being trueskill 500 under in trueskill you gotta be pretty good with all the luck in this game.
lol :D
Well to be honest, I don't care about my ranking, I just play for fun. I will "happily" (Add sarcasm) commit suicide with my worm to give the other player his win, just because of his stupid luck. Although, of course, this doesn't mean I suck at the game, I can hit a worm on the other side of the map (complex tarrain or not) with a grenade. That takes quite a long time of practice to be able to make such good calculated throws with a grenade. You also have to time your grenade between 1 second to 5 seconds for it to be successful in some situations.
Having my skill be next to "not important" in the game, while even having my strategy being "nerfed" you should know why I'm disappointed. My way of fun is for the other player to respect my strategy, and my skill. Although in this case, skill and strategy is nerfed down to the newbie player, for his advantage. It does hurt me personally, it hurts my fun with the game.
And that's why I'm on this forum, I want to "help" with making this game more enjoyable. If anyone cares anyways (mostly administrator or developers). I really think this title needs more support from them, there's too many issues in the game right now, just hope they all get fixed up for everyone to enjoy the game more. :eek:
Squirminator2k
23 Mar 2012, 23:02
There are people higher up the ladder, higher up the leaderboards, higher in the TrueSkill ranking who are evidently able to cope with the idea of a strategy game that is 60-70% skill and 30-40% luck. If you're going to moan about the fact that sometimes worms are placed in unfair positions or that your opponents get crate drops on occasion then, y'know, tough (silt - Ed.).
Squirminator2k
23 Mar 2012, 23:39
Cry me a river. Clearly you just can't handle the full five-course meal that is a Worms 2: Armageddon forts match.
Squirminator2k
24 Mar 2012, 00:02
LOL
Seriously?
Please send me a message and I will go head to head with you on worms.
Hahaha. No. I'm much smarter than to fall for this little trick. See, if I win you'll (bench - Ed.) and moan about how I had unfair advantages - I started first, I had crate drops, my fort was bigger than your fort, that sort of thing. If you win, you'll chalk it up to skill even if you have the perceivably unfair advantages such as, for instance, starting first, having crate drops, having a bigger fort than my fort, that sort of thing.
Of course, by turning you down you can now make a bunch of claims about how I'm not good enough, how I'm all bark and no bite, and so on. But here's the thing: I don't care. Literally no one cares. If you want to think of yourself as better than some guy on the internet at a game that was moderately popular in the late 90s, by all means go for it. But at the end of the day, what do you gain? How does this... well, we'll call it a belief, how does it enhance your life?
It doesn't. Because anyone who places genuine weight on whether or not they are better a game than someone they don't really know online has some seriously messed up priorities.
Squirminator2k
24 Mar 2012, 00:23
If you're disabling crate drops then you're really just proving my point about not being good enough to handle Forts mode in its full glory. In which case, I have already won.
Here is why I couldn't follow your arguments on the placements at first - these screenshots are taken from Worms Reloaded and nothing here seems unfair by any means, or does it?
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595840075015489101/0D71C0B66D6A6DC9DAD8F23F3AFB16833FD486A8/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595840075015485800/92B278112E37E806DAF0B2970B4495E2FCA89D7D/
Squirminator2k
24 Mar 2012, 16:53
You gotta think your good when you pick up a earthquake and shake them all off my base you think that is skill?
I don't have anymore to say to you because you'll just keep argueing over why crate drops arn't unfair to you. But everyone else says crate drops arn't fair when they drop crate after crate for the opponents team.
You are, without a doubt, the single funniest person to join this forum in some time. Please, never ever change.
@Thurbo, No actually that isn't really bad at all is this a 2vs2 game? Because I see 8 worms on one base so im assuming it is.
So no that isn't a unfair spawn i'm talking about when they stick your worms of a stack of 3 next to water or even better yet a 3 stacker right aside of a barrel or mine.
That was what I was referring to. This "stacking" isn't possible in Reloaded, it was fixed in a patch and naturally I believed it was fixed in W:2A as well, but obviously I was mistaken.
Yes, you've mistaking unfortunetly they will have many games where they'll stack 3 worms by a cliff or next to a mine or barrel.
Yesterday, actuallly I got spawned 3 worms in the back of my base which they couldn't get hit but most of all couldn't take shots unless you had 3-4 wind going towards they're base to shoot one back from my base. Which still sucks because since i don't have real shots his 4 worms on his base are just taking massive chunks of my base out while im trying to get to the top for shots meanwhile this happens probably 80% of the time dropping him crates on his base.
Yeah, it happens many times... In fact, enough times that I'm now moving on to Worms Ultimate Mayhem. I still have Worms 3D laying here, filled with dust over the last years. But now it's time for me to move on to the next title, which by the way reminds me too much of Worms 3D (Worms Ultimate Mayhem "Worms 3D clone with extras"), but I'll give it a go anyways.
This game (Worms 2: Armageddon) was worth the price for as long as it lasted, now it's getting too boring though. There's not enough stuff to do in it, not just that, but "manual worm placement before match start" doesn't exist. That's why I'm now leaving this game for a long time, as long as I think it will take for them to fix all the issues within the game. Hopefully they will make a new Worms "2D" title, which has three selection menus for weapons, and much- much- MUCH more stuff to do, A LOT more modes are needed to keep the titles fresh and going for years.
To be honest, I never got tired of "Worms Armageddon" when I played it, the only thing that made me move on from playing it was that it was getting old, people were leaving the game back then, now it seems like there are still people playing it. But I'm not going back to that, to me, that title should be dead, there should be a better Worms "2D" title to come, which is x10 (times) better than "Worms Armageddon". I wonder, will we ever see such a great success? I hope so. Until then I'll try to keep myself entertained with Worms Ultimate Mayhem, and a bunch of other games.
DrMelon
27 Mar 2012, 01:41
opinion before people start jumping down my throat lmfao but personally it's the truth! :)
this sentence doesn't even parse, what are you doing
step away from the keyboard
Squirminator2k
27 Mar 2012, 03:07
He's crap at maths, too. English and Maths. That's two basic skills Worms_PRO is terrible at.
Yes, I and alot of my other friends on worms say the samething like what if they did this and how much better it would be "spawn positions, even crate drops for both teams or none at all, and the weapons from the previous worms game, and I will say it again a 2vs2 ranked format with clans, team leaderboards etc...
I don't like 3D worms the newer game available.
But hoping that they'll bring lots more to Worms 2 Armageddon (XBLA & PS3) and fix bug issues and etc.
2D worms is where it's at! opinion before people start jumping down my throat lmfao but personally it's the truth! :)
I definitely agree with this. I've had a lot more fun with the 2D worms than I had with the 3D worms, even though "those" (if I could even say "those") has had some fun too. It has been a good experience with the 3D worms is what I'm saying. It's just not the same, you know. Team17 has always delivered in some ways more than depressing anyone. Just hope this "Worms 2: Armageddon" gets patched up soon, just like Worms: Reloaded gets patched up.
I don't expect you to reply though, been a long time since I was on this forum lol.
He's crap at maths, too. English and Maths. That's two basic skills Worms_PRO is terrible at.
And this guy, funny as always... I give you that much man lol, you're a cracker. The points you make are always funny.
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