The worms reloaded rope is fine and balanced

[DrMelon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfPiZR3NEw

I'm not kidding.

[SilPho]

Considering the game has been out for under 24 hours, that looks like good progress to me. With a bit of practice these game modes should make a return, some tweaks might be needed but that's fine.

Would be nice if people actually gave themselves a chance to get used to the new physics rather than demand it to be exactly how they want it.

[NikeStyle]

Hi, I have just tried the new game... Everything looks very ok, but I cant play with this kind of rope... It was perfect on WWP, it was ok on W:A... And now, wall x wall game type is going to die for me.

[EvilJolly]

You simply can't do the complex tricks and agile movements that you could before. Sure, you can get around, but it's just not the "fun" rope that it used to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5vlEr_wMQ

Watch that video. A lot of the comments are saying he cheated by running the game in slow-mo, but never the less, it's a good example of the old ninja rope physics.

Now come on, tell me that doesn't look like more fun than the ninja rope you're using now...

[greyze]

I hope Team17 don't give in to the whiney pressure.

The new physics make the game WAAY much more interesting than just another rehash, also its much more realistic with such things as grenades bouncing. Of course it needs a little tweaking but its overall good.

The rope, I would consider a worthy nerf.
The WA Rope was indeed fun, but it was by far the most overpowered item in that game, giving the user the ability to travel the whole landscape, killing worms without even losing a turn etc. Things like that made most items, tactics and stratergys completely useless as the rope was a sure way to win always for example, the teleport.
The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.

If T17 make the rope like WA, the game will immediately turn rubbish and make it feel pointless even creating and/or paying £17 for it.

The only thing the game needs is UI tweaking as many people have expressed.

[DrMelon]

I hope Team17 don't give in to the whiney pressure.

The new physics make the game WAAY much more interesting than just another rehash, also its much more realistic with such things as grenades bouncing. Of course it needs a little tweaking but its overall good.

The rope, I would consider a worthy nerf.
The WA Rope was indeed fun, but it was by far the most overpowered item in that game, giving the user the ability to travel the whole landscape, killing worms without even losing a turn etc. Things like that made most items, tactics and stratergys completely useless as the rope was a sure way to win always for example, the teleport.
The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.

If T17 make the rope like WA, the game will immediately turn rubbish and make it feel pointless even creating and/or paying £17 for it.

The only thing the game needs is UI tweaking as many people have expressed.



This. This is what I wanted to say.

[Shroom!]

I hope Team17 don't give in to the whiney pressure.

The new physics make the game WAAY much more interesting than just another rehash, also its much more realistic with such things as grenades bouncing. Of course it needs a little tweaking but its overall good.

The rope, I would consider a worthy nerf.
The WA Rope was indeed fun, but it was by far the most overpowered item in that game, giving the user the ability to travel the whole landscape, killing worms without even losing a turn etc. Things like that made most items, tactics and stratergys completely useless as the rope was a sure way to win always for example, the teleport.
The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.

If T17 make the rope like WA, the game will immediately turn rubbish and make it feel pointless even creating and/or paying £17 for it.

The only thing the game needs is UI tweaking as many people have expressed.

And that's the whole point of shopper!

[DrMelon]

And that's the whole point of shopper!

Because Shopper = Worms, yeah?

[BetongÅsna]

I love you, this thread.

[Shroom!]

Because Shopper = Worms, yeah?


To many people, yes. Once I started playing Shopper I rarely found myself playing other schemes. That W:A rope is just so addictive!

[Kalan]

To many people, yes. Once I started playing Shopper I rarely found myself playing other schemes. That W:A rope is just so addictive!

Then you and those other people are not playing Worms at it's full capacity.

I play Shopper, Rope Race and Standard, and probably some mixed deathmatch modes.

[Shroom!]

Then you and those other people are not playing Worms at it's full capacity.

I play Shopper, Rope Race and Standard, and probably some mixed deathmatch modes.

I do play rope race sometimes and use to host my own "Normal" but different scheme, before I started having issues hosting without hostingbuddy. Before I started roping I played normal 90% of the time. I will play normal in W:R but I would like to be able to play shopper style games too, with a rope that is capable of doing it. Choice is what is important. This new game should cater for noobs and old school ropers alike. It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.

[andshrew]

Because Shopper = Worms, yeah?

I really don't get your crusade against people who liked the WA rope.

For me and many others Worms = customisation. The ability to create schemes and games tailored around what you and your friends wanted to play, and in this area Reloaded is really lacking which is disappointing given is was touted as being very customizable. They keep telling us what is and isn't fun, rather than that just giving the options to play how we want (more than 4 worms?! That's not fun so you can't do that!).

I don't think it's to much to ask to have the option to enable a 'super' rope like previous games - if you don't like it you don't have to play with it.

Looking at the games files it looks like there's plenty of potential for modifying the weapon and worm parameter files if they let us - which hopefully they will.

[Drury]

It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.
Wait, why did they reused soundtrack from WA, soundbanks from WA, graphics from WA, almost everything from WA? I'm confused.

[Xen]

I do play rope race sometimes and use to host my own "Normal" but different scheme, before I started having issues hosting without hostingbuddy. Before I started roping I played normal 90% of the time. I will play normal in W:R but I would like to be able to play shopper style games too, with a rope that is capable of doing it. Choice is what is important. This new game should cater for noobs and old school ropers alike. It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.

This is how I feel. Options would be nice, but unfortunately seeing as how the beta came and went I don't believe this will happen.

[Grabondall]

I really don't get this rope whining. It's not THAT bad.


Just get used or go back to WA if you are really that sad. The rope doesn't need to be fixed.

[jsgnext]

Hi, I have just tried the new game... Everything looks very ok, but I cant play with this kind of rope... It was perfect on WWP, it was ok on W:A... And now, wall x wall game type is going to die for me.

its funny coz the WA and WWp is the same rope....the difference is that in WWp you can make it larger with wormpot, but thats all...
I think the WR rope is better than I expected....its not as cool as WA/WWp one, that rope will never come back (deal with it), but its cool anyway....
About the Menus....this is a pseudo-ported game....do not expect too much for it....

[EvilJolly]

Branding an opinion as whining is a common tactic for people to try and win arguments. Can we just quit with the childish belittlement already?

I'm sure a lot of the people who say the ninja rope is fine were never into ninja roping like many of the people who think it should be changed.

Look, if I was playing a regular game, sure...ninja ropes would be fine. The thing is, a very large portion of players in Worms2 and WA focused strictly around the rope. I don't understand how a mode of transportation can be considered overpowered if everyone is allowed to use it. You even have the ability to take it out of the game if you want.

Instead of arguing over this, I vote we petition for a "classic rope" option under game settings. I think this would make everyone happy. Look at Tribes2. They completely changed the way that "skiing" worked, and most Tribes1 players hated it, but then they introduced "classic" physics and you never heard another complaint.

I think having an option is the best solution. I want to play games of Worms focused completely around the ninja rope, and the new rope is well...boring and slow.

[DrMelon]

Besides, now that it's direct T17-to-consumer patching now (instead of having to go through THQ then through Microsoft etc) the UI can be modified and patched in easily.

[ForgotWhat]

I really don't get your crusade against people who liked the WA rope.

For me and many others Worms = customisation. The ability to create schemes and games tailored around what you and your friends wanted to play, and in this area Reloaded is really lacking which is disappointing given is was touted as being very customizable. They keep telling us what is and isn't fun, rather than that just giving the options to play how we want (more than 4 worms?! That's not fun so you can't do that!).

I don't think it's to much to ask to have the option to enable a 'super' rope like previous games - if you don't like it you don't have to play with it.

Looking at the games files it looks like there's plenty of potential for modifying the weapon and worm parameter files if they let us - which hopefully they will.

I don't understand why some people are so against something that worked so well in their other games either. I am for the idea of a "super" or "classic" rope option to appease both sides.

Please bring back the rope we know and love Team17, at least as an option. The new rope has completely killed the possibility of having fun games centered completely around the ninja rope.

[MonkeyforaHead]

I approve of this thread.

Seriously, if the rope is going to be tweaked further to make it floatier and yet more like the W:A rope, that should be a separate option, not on by default. Include it for the people who want to do shoppers and rope races -- although I have no idea if it's even possible to tweak the rope to be powerful enough to effectively run rope races on the new engine. The worms themselves are a lot heavier now, and unless the rope can somehow be tweaked to change the physics engine entirely there may not be a lot that can be done about that.

[Akuryou13]

It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

[Esbern]

I approve of this thread.

Seriously, if the rope is going to be tweaked further to make it floatier and yet more like the W:A rope, that should be a separate option, not on by default. Include it for the people who want to do shoppers and rope races -- although I have no idea if it's even possible to tweak the rope to be powerful enough to effectively run rope races on the new engine. The worms themselves are a lot heavier now, and unless the rope can somehow be tweaked to change the physics engine entirely there may not be a lot that can be done about that.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. It would also need a lot of work from the devs...

[Esbern]

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

Reading this made me happy. Thank you.

[lucidry]

Considering the game has been out for under 24 hours, that looks like good progress to me. With a bit of practice these game modes should make a return, some tweaks might be needed but that's fine.

Would be nice if people actually gave themselves a chance to get used to the new physics rather than demand it to be exactly how they want it.


the problem is, the new version doesn't use any sense-driven physics, for roping. I have a couple problems with the way roping has gone. Someone else said this game would be rubbish if they changed it. NO. wrong. There are many different modes of play and just because Worms: Armageddon's rope physics allowed people to become very good at roping and doing different tricks does not mean it ruins it for everyone else, if you don't like "roperacing" or "pro-roper" or "crate shopper" etc, then play "forts" or anything else that doesn't use ropes or uses less of it.

As for the change in the roping, nothing feels right about the way the rope controls any more, your momentum completely dies when you let go , you can't 'spring' or 'toss' yourself with the rope nearly as well as you could in worms armageddon.

Please let the biggest fans of this series have their wish and tailor the rope swinging to the way it was in Worms: Armageddon, those gamers have waited years and hoped and waited for a newer prettier version of worms with that style of roping. I certainly do. If you people who can't get used to the better physics of roping in worms armageddon, perhaps the developer could make different schemes that change the reaction of the rope to tailor to you more novice 'non-fans' of the roping that made W:A so popular.

I really enjoy the look of this new game, but certainly it needs to feel more like a PC game again, it does need that work to be done on it to not feel like a console port. I am not disappointed with the way this game looks or anything like that, But i AM sincerely disappointed in the physics of the way roping works, and people do not want to 'roperace' with the physics the way they are presently in worms reloaded, and for good reason.

[Kalan]

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

I love you.
Please have my babies.

But still, if you host your own intermediate/normal game, people WILL come in. Most of the times that I host an Intermediate with HostingBuddy I get some players...

Last time I got 3 players and 1 spectator...

[AngeloG]

I agree, the rope is perfectly fine!

[Dassassin]

It may be "Balanced", but it's certainly not "Fun".

I think the rope "needed" a nerf, but a new rope with the maneuverability of the one we're used to from W:A would make things much more interesting.

Of course, complaining here isn't the solution -- playing WA is. ;)

[Extremist2]

look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

I love you, except for that last part.

Armageddon & Reloaded use two different physics systems. IMO, this one feature is 50% of what makes WA so amazing. The high-accuracy physics.

Now, from what I've seen of Reloaded so far, the physics have been improved from W2:A. Less floaty throwing weapons, more ground-to-worm friction. But I highly doubt that WA's uber-precision has been duplicated.

What I mean by high-precision is, you KNOW how your worm will land when you jump, everytime. You KNOW how many bounces your grenade will take, everytime. You KNOW how far your worm will slide after being hit, everytime. The same goes for wind, damage, throwing arcs, explosion force, etc.

Compared to that, W2:A feels incredibly random. Funny bounces, slipping-and-sliding, "weird" wind, etc.

I'm sure some will just say "but you learned how to be accurate". When I first played WA, I knew within minutes what to expect when I performed an action. The learning curve comes during fine tuning. With W2:A, however, I have many hours under my belt, and with every action it's 50-50 as to how it's going to turn out. I've tried to predict, but it just doesn't work.

Reloaded appears to be halfway in-between these two. This will allow for some truly competitive play, but close matches could still be decided by an extra grenade bounce or a bit more worm slideage. In other words, there's no way to refine your skills, break away from the pack and declare yourself the very best.

Yes, this could be seen as being too hardcore, but I'd rather have that than #1 only being separated from #150 by luck.

There is probably a balance that can be made. Realistic physics that are hard to master, but are predictable WITH EFFORT, allowing for a larger middle-class of players. Or maybe better weapon balance that helps prevent excessively one-sided matches. But I suspect that this is too hard to do.

It makes more sense from the business side of things to make the game pretty, funny, customizable, feature-filled, but to do some cutting in the balanced gameplay department. Just make it loose and arcadey, requiring less thinking. It's cheaper that way, and will bring in more casual (read: dumb) gamers to boot.

That may be insulting, but the majority of games these days are severely lacking in gameplay depth and are too easy, either from a lack of effort, budget constraints, or what I suspect is the number 1 reason, targeting a larger market.

Take Zelda: Twilight Princess for example. Amazing graphics, story, level design, fun to play, but most of the enemies & bosses are pushovers, hidden treasure is too easy to find, items and health refills are plentiful, etc. It takes a lot of extra work to create a game that makes you think, and is challenging without being frustrating.

Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask had those properties in spades. I suspect that OOT near BURNED OUT its developers, it was so darn well-balanced. MM probably only had similar gameplay depth because it used almost the same engine and some of the same assets as OOT, so they were able to do better work on its (IMO) more important features.

Sorry for going on, but I needed to give some perspective on this issue to prevent my views from being misinterpreted. In short, I don't think that Reloaded is the replacement for WA to me, a somewhat old-school standard gametype lover, because of a lack of gameplay depth and a bit of a luck factor. And hey, the next WA beta update (if it ever arrives), will re-add a feature that's been missing for years now, which I consider to be 25% of the game's charm - high-detail randomly-generated maps! :D

[Shroom!]

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

I used to host normal games on W:A all the time. If you didn't see any normal games then why didn't you host some yourself? They would have filled right up. They always filled up when I hosted. 8 worms each, 5 or 6 teams... classic.

Saying there are never normal games hosted because of ropers taking over is a total lie. I see normals all the time, hysteria too amongst others. There is adequate room for ropers and non ropers alike on WormNet. We should get the same equal treatment on Steam.

[NAiL]

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.


Your an example of an old player who used to play WA for a few years, then stopped playing and instead posted on forums for a few years. What you've said simply isn't true.


Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

Armageddon is played by both people who like to play rope schemes, and just as many who like playing non rope schemes. If you actually played WA, then you'd know that today Intermediate and Hysteria are two of the most played schemes online. Both of these schemes are non roping schemes. Elite, Team17, BnG, and many, MANY other non roping schemes are played daily by wormers either for fun or competatively.

Look, there is an entire league dedicated to the intermediate scheme: www.normalnonoobs.org
As ive said before Intermediate is more popular than its ever been, classic style worming is more popular than its ever been.

Look, there is an entire league dedicated to BnG and there are weekly BnG tournaments hosted every week: http://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tournaments/

Look, there are HUNDREDS OF NONE ROPING SCHEMES being hosted all the time at the Worm Olympics site: http://wormolympics.com/tournaments
Look at this site to see just how many NON ROPING schemes there are being played by hundreds of different players.

Look, this site was created to allow people to create their own challanges and missions for people to complete, both roping and non roping. Unfortunately the site is no longer running, but this video gives you a taste of what it was like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IWY6XqMy7k

So I hope you now realise that non rope schemes play as much a part in WA today as roping schemes do. There are FAR more non rope schemes being played today than when you used to play this game. These days there are more non roping schemes being played than there are roping schemes. What you said in that post isnt true, end of story. Check the links I put up and see for yourself.

The fact of the matter is Team17 have not only made WR worse for people who like to rope, they've also made the game worse for people who dont like to rope. Its a worse game all round, and today there are more non roping players than there are roping players. There are also far more all rounders that play a broad range of schemes than there were before. Check the current all round league and you'll see that non roping schemes are played as much if, not more so than roping schemes: www.tus-wa.com

[MtlAngelus]

I agree with the above, the game is worse in pretty much all respects. T17 seem to have tried too hard to cater to a casual audience, making a game with about as much depth as bowl of cereal. The missions are an absolute chore, even if they are stupidly easy. Up to mission 28, and not one has been clever or fun at all. Quite the opposite in W:A, where I have a lot of missions I remember fondly, even if some were hard as hell. Or how about the supersheep or ninja rope training modes, that required you to last a certain ammount of time to get gold. I spent ages on that to get gold and it was fun as hell, rather disappointed not to see a similar mode here(then again, with the nerfed rope and the harder to control supersheep...). There's Bodycount I guess, but I expected more, something to give more life to the singleplayer aspect. The scheme customization also took a huge hit, and other brilliant additions to W:A have been ignored, particularly the ability to save replays(unless I have missed it?)

Above all, what disappoints me the most is that it's pretty much a port of W2:A. Considering the sweet time they took to bring this to PC, I would have expected a lot of content to improve.

But hey, whatever, the game is fun right? It works, right? It's just sad to see T17 adopt this mentality. In the last ten years worms went from being a brilliant game to just something with the quality of your average shareware. :(

[Akuryou13]

NAiL, I was referring to the times I've logged in over the years. I've completely stopped doing so in the last 2 years. If indeed normal games are more common than ropers, then I can retract my statement about W:A being completely for ropers.

I still maintain that the rope is fine as it is, and all of the ropers coming around to whine just need to sit down and realize they've been playing with a broken weapon all this time and it's finally been balanced correctly.

I agree with the above, the game is worse in pretty much all respects. T17 seem to have tried too hard to cater to a casual audience, making a game with about as much depth as bowl of cereal. The missions are an absolute chore, even if they are stupidly easy. Up to mission 28, and not one has been clever or fun at all. Quite the opposite in W:A, where I have a lot of missions I remember fondly, even if some were hard as hell. Or how about the supersheep or ninja rope training modes, that required you to last a certain ammount of time to get gold. I spent ages on that to get gold and it was fun as hell, rather disappointed not to see a similar mode here(then again, with the nerfed rope and the harder to control supersheep...). There's Bodycount I guess, but I expected more, something to give more life to the singleplayer aspect. The scheme customization also took a huge hit, and other brilliant additions to W:A have been ignored, particularly the ability to save replays(unless I have missed it?)

Above all, what disappoints me the most is that it's pretty much a port of W2:A. Considering the sweet time they took to bring this to PC, I would have expected a lot of content to improve.

But hey, whatever, the game is fun right? It works, right? It's just sad to see T17 adopt this mentality. In the last ten years worms went from being a brilliant game to just something with the quality of your average shareware. :(now this I can entirely agree with. I'm enjoying the simple multiplayer matches, but that is definitely all there is to do. The single player was mundane and dull, the tutorials are uneventful and I actually trudged through them hoping for some practice like we had in armageddon and found nothing.

Team17 used to be a great company with a ton of personality. Where are the teamsters now, anyway? A good chunk of the team used to come through the forum all the time and visit, discussing our advice. Hell, I joined the forums because a staffer had posted a thread asking for weapon suggestions. Now they've released a new game and no one has said a word? It's like all the old members have been fired and the new guys are just riding on past success. The game is definitely suffering from a company filled with apathy towards their fans...

[NAiL]

The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.


This is a very ignorant thing to say, its just not true. Read my post at the top of this page. The SCHEMES that you are talking about are RR, Roper and Shopper schemes. These are a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE of SCHEMES that are actively played on WA today. To say that 99% of schemes require roping for victory is simply, not true.


The rope in WA was basically a free pass to any position on the map if you knew what to do. This is rather unbalanced.


Where do I get off talking to a bunch of incompetent fools like that? Why, by having owned the original on Amiga oh so many years ago.
And it is balanced now because you can't move from one end of a map to the other, make an attack, and return all without being hurt once. That is unbalanced - a player who isn't skilled with the rope cannot stand against one who is. At all.

Can you not see what you both are saying is ridiculous?

You are talking about ROPER. This is ONE of many, MANY schemes that are played in WA today. You are not talking about WA in general, you are talking about ONE SCHEME. If you don't like ROPER, don't play ROPER...
Read my post at the top of this page to see EVIDENCE of how many schemes played on WA dont even include the ninja rope...

In the most popular default schemes, take elite and intermediate for example, you can only shoot the rope twice. Being a "pro roper" will be of little, if any relevance to the outcome of the game. You cannot rope from one side of the map in 2 swings, unless you go for a risky fly, but this is extremely rare. Some of the best elite and intermediate players aren't that great ropers, that doesnt mean they dont own the DEFAULT schemes.

I find it very silly of you to describe a game of ROPER and claim that this is how 99% of WA games are played... Its clear to anyone with a basic knowledge of how WA is played today, that this is not true.

Also, why do you keep talking about how you played and owned the original Worms? What relevance to anything is the fact you played an offline game all those years ago..? What relevance does that have to do with WA being the most popular Worms title ever? You want kudos for beating the computer? Or for beating your friends when they came round and played it?

[lDarKl]

If my assumption is correct then Melon's point is that even in a game of Intermediate the rope is overpowered and it's "destroying" the normal schemes in W:A. Also, due to many rope fanatics the normal games are dying (or have died). Let me tell you that, as NAiL said, there's a lot of Intermediate going on in WormNET, and the ropes in normal games are limited for a reason. It's clear that there are people who can do almost anything with a rope because they practised a lot, so it's not lame or a cheat or anything to get around a whole map with a rope. Anyone can do it.

All those guys who couldn't use ropes to their full capacity in W:A are celebrating now because the rope in W:R sucks. The irony.

[Extremist2]

Now, I haven't played WA regularly for about 6 months now, so things may have changed on WormNET, but when I was there, 75% of the time that I'd log in, most of currently hosted games would be rope-based, and most of the public chat would be host requests for rope games. The other 25% of the time, I'd find standard schemes.

It doesn't matter how many standard scheme clans there are, or how often something is played in official competitions. It's the total hosted games in the WormNET lobby that really matters.

Observe. (http://stats.worms2d.info/hbschemes.txt) Adding up the HostingBuddy schemes that I know to be rope-based (I'm not familiar with some of those names), the total is 70.61%.

[lDarKl]

HostingBuddy does not represent WormNET, you're well aware of that right? It's used very frequently nowadays, but of the Wormers I know almost none use this service.

And being on WormNET around 6-8 hours a day (mostly snooping though), I see Intermediates or "normal games" hosted very frequently, it's actually rare to see none. There's one right now for example. :p

[Komo]

I'd like to point out 1st of all, WWP and WA roping is NOT the same, it has different gravity, I have played both in-depth.

I'd also like to point out that at this moment, the person on WA who is 1st in the main All-Round league is Random00, and his best scheme is Elite, not rope.

Although I agree the rope in WR isn't as fun as WA, I still think it is good, it's different, it does the job, I personally don't see why people want the rope to be the same as WA, when they can just play WA... The whole point of a new game is supposed to be different, I am personally glad everything is totally different and laid back a bit, because it has huge luck factor, and some events are completely random, like for example, i've been hitting worms about, and they slide and bounce about like a rugby ball, you don't know what's going on lol, it's fun !

The main 2 things I am dissapointed with is the fact we don't have Low Gravity for BnG, and min/max bounce, and the whole concept of a grenade acting like a magnet and sticking to you, is extremely dissapointing for me because I am ridiculously addicted to BnG on WA.

However, i've got BnG on WR down to a tee already, it is nice in a way, but kind of easy and boring, there is NO variety unlike WA BnG.

Anyway back to the question at hand, I have been roping on WA for around 11 years now, I love roping on WA just as much as anyone else, and I am very good at it, and I think it should stay that way, on WA.

We do not need another Worms game thats exactly the same, WR should NOT have the same rope physics as WA, i'll keep playing WA for all the cool rope schemes, and the extremely competitive leagues.

If I hadn't ever played WA, I would probably stick with WR, but because WA is practically part of my childhood, and life for that matter, I will NEVER ever swap Worms games, I will always be on WA, especially with Deadcode and CyberShadow continously making updates and fixes to make it better, and it's about to get even better, people on WA get everything they want, leave WR for the newcomers to the Worms francise to decide what to do with, stop trying to hijack new games just because we're "oldschool".

Let them do what they want with it, and we will stick with WA :)

[Extremist2]

HostingBuddy games still count toward WormNET's hosted game total, and although Intermediates are hosted, it's the ratio that matters. I'd recommend doing a similar survey for rope games.

I'd actually be curious to see that ratio. Like I said, I haven't logged on in half a year. Anything could be happening...

[CakeDoer]

I agree with the above, the game is worse in pretty much all respects. T17 seem to have tried too hard to cater to a casual audience, making a game with about as much depth as bowl of cereal. The missions are an absolute chore, even if they are stupidly easy. Up to mission 28, and not one has been clever or fun at all. Quite the opposite in W:A, where I have a lot of missions I remember fondly, even if some were hard as hell. Or how about the supersheep or ninja rope training modes, that required you to last a certain ammount of time to get gold. I spent ages on that to get gold and it was fun as hell, rather disappointed not to see a similar mode here(then again, with the nerfed rope and the harder to control supersheep...). There's Bodycount I guess, but I expected more, something to give more life to the singleplayer aspect. The scheme customization also took a huge hit, and other brilliant additions to W:A have been ignored, particularly the ability to save replays(unless I have missed it?)

Above all, what disappoints me the most is that it's pretty much a port of W2:A. Considering the sweet time they took to bring this to PC, I would have expected a lot of content to improve.

But hey, whatever, the game is fun right? It works, right? It's just sad to see T17 adopt this mentality. In the last ten years worms went from being a brilliant game to just something with the quality of your average shareware. :(

QFT.

In the end, what I'm going to do is play WA and hope the next PC game is actually optimised for the platform, takes on the good aspects of all of the games so far and improves on every bit, but also standing as an individual Worms release and being original in many ways. I will also hope to see a "super/classic rope" option. :)

Also, the super sheep is not harder but easier to control, as it's slower than in WA.

Can't wait to see what's going to improve in the next beta updates and especially Patch 4.0.

[Extremist2]

and hope the next PC game is actually optimised for the platform

This reminds me. The fact that WR appears to have low gameplay depth is made worse by the fact it's a PC game. The PC game market can hardly be considered casual, with stuff like Sim City, Starcraft, and Unreal Tournament being big sellers.

[DrMelon]

-words-

Ah. You see, I am not talking about an overabundance of roping schemes.

On a normal island terrain, with the normal 3-swing rope, you can still get from one side to the other in less than a few seconds (if you are sufficiently skilled with the rope). This is wrong. The rope should not be able to allow you to pass from one whole side of a map to the other in a scheme not designed to allow that.

As for having the first, that implies I also had all the rest, and indeed I did. Still got my armageddon box right here.
So, the point I am making is - I know this game inside out through all of its PC incarnations. I've been here since the beginning, and I've seen it all right through to today. And in doing so, I can say with complete and total accuracy, the worms reloaded rope is fine and balanced. Whether or not you share that idea is up to you, but as far as I, and many others, are concerned, the rope is just fine. The UI is not. The physics may be a little off. The campaign is a bit dull. But for all intents and purposes, the rope is exactly how the rope was originally planned. It's a transportation device - the next step up is the Jetpack. Jetpacks are supposed to defy gravity - there has to be a reason to use it in a game. Pieces of string are not supposed to defy gravity. Therefore it makes contextual sense.
And so what if roper games aren't possible in WR? Nobody forces you to buy it. Nobody forces you to stop playing Armageddon even if you do buy WR. The point I am making is that in this game, and in this context, it is fine, and it is balanced.

I'm not trying to say this rope is better, or that it's worse. I'm saying that it has struck the balance between useful tool and gravity-defying god rope.

As for |Dark|'s comment ("All those guys who couldn't use ropes to their full capacity in W:A are celebrating now because the rope in W:R sucks. The irony. "), that statement is false. I can compete in a WxW as well as the next roper, and yet I prefer this rope. Why? Because it doesn't make the game easier in normal matches. In fact, it could even be the reverse. Allow me to demonstrate:
All those guys who could only use the ropes in W:A are bawling because the rope in W:R is balanced.

TL;DR:
Read it.

[Komo]

Ah. You see, I am not talking about an overabundance of roping schemes.

On a normal island terrain, with the normal 3-swing rope, you can still get from one side to the other in less than a few seconds (if you are sufficiently skilled with the rope). This is wrong. The rope should not be able to allow you to pass from one whole side of a map to the other in a scheme not designed to allow that.

But the scheme HAS been made to allow this, and whether or not YOU like it doesn't mean it's wrong, make your own scheme with rope missing then if you hate it so much, rope gives it a unique strategy, with Intermediate/Elite schemes, everyone who actually plays these games seriously will agree.

[DrMelon]

But the scheme HAS been made to allow this, and whether or not YOU like it doesn't mean it's wrong, make your own scheme with rope missing then if you hate it so much, rope gives it a unique strategy, with Intermediate/Elite schemes, everyone who actually plays these games seriously will agree.

Actually, the intention of intermediate and/or elite was not to allow one player to mysteriously move anywhere on the map placing grenades at the foot of his enemies. Odd as that may sound, people might actually be playing Worms. SHOCK! HORROR! SOMEONE ACTUALLY PLAYING AN ARTILLERY STRATEGY GAME BY *GASP* FIRING THINGS INTO THE AIR FROM ONE POSITION IN ORDER TO STRIKE HIS ENEMY WHO IS AT ANOTHER POSITION?!


Roper is the scheme made to allow this.

If it was the intention to allow a player to cross all the terrain with just the rope, why is there a jetpack on the same scheme, intermediate? Food for thought - if you're capable of rational thought that is.

It's like talking to a brick wall, honestly. "BUT THE GAME WAS MAAAADE FOR YOU TO GO ANYWHERE ON THE MAP AT ONE TIME HERP DERP"

[lDarKl]

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall just as well. I see your point though, if you're a casual player and don't care about advanced tactics in Intermediate then W:R is indeed the way to go.

[Draconis]

I'm fairly certain I could absolutely thrash the vast majority of people on the original Worms just because of their reliance on the ninja rope and jet packs in the more recent games. My experience so far online with Worms Reloaded is that as soon as your enemy has used up his ninja rope and jetpack, the game is yours because most people are just incapable of playing Worms as originally intended. After they've used their ninja ropes and jetpacks up they will resort to the bunker busters and airstrikes purely because it's an autohit. Pretty sad really, I'd expect ranked matches to be far tighter in the resources they allow.

[lDarKl]

[...] playing Worms as originally intended.

So why do you think Team17 built in the Ninja Rope and the Jetpack? Because it's not 'as originally intended' to move around? I don't get people who come up with stuff like this, it's a part of the game like everything else.

[Komo]

Actually, the intention of intermediate and/or elite was not to allow one player to mysteriously move anywhere on the map placing grenades at the foot of his enemies. Odd as that may sound, people might actually be playing Worms. SHOCK! HORROR! SOMEONE ACTUALLY PLAYING AN ARTILLERY STRATEGY GAME BY *GASP* FIRING THINGS INTO THE AIR FROM ONE POSITION IN ORDER TO STRIKE HIS ENEMY WHO IS AT ANOTHER POSITION?!


Roper is the scheme made to allow this.

If it was the intention to allow a player to cross all the terrain with just the rope, why is there a jetpack on the same scheme, intermediate? Food for thought - if you're capable of rational thought that is.

It's like talking to a brick wall, honestly. "BUT THE GAME WAS MAAAADE FOR YOU TO GO ANYWHERE ON THE MAP AT ONE TIME HERP DERP"


Well considering in Elite, you only get 1 rope swing, and you only have 20s to make your turn, it's not the easiest task, and if you mess that turn up, then chances are you could lose the game, even being it's hard enough to get from one side to another, rope in this scheme adds to the strategy, like it or not.

As for intermediate, I don't play this so I wouldn't know, but i've seen the best players on WNET at intermediate, and it certainly isn't all about just using rope and roping about like you so think, you have to use it tactically.

And how blind are you? Obviously the game WAS made so you can go anywhere on the map or you wouldn't have things like rope/teleport/jetpack.

You don't even play these games properly and take them serious so what makes you Mr. Know it all anyway?

Just because you can't handle it doesn't mean it's wrong, and if it's SOOOOOOOOO WRONG, then why was it put in the game in the 1st place, genius?



And Draconis, you are SOOOO wrong lol, most players are actually defaulters.

I loved the original Worms on the Gameboy, I still play it now and again :)

[bonz]

Shroom, you should have a look at the statistics.
http://stats.worms2d.info/hbschemes.html

More than 50% are rope based schemes.
That justifies the argument that they've "taken over" for me.

[NAiL]

Actually, the intention of intermediate and/or elite was not to allow one player to mysteriously move anywhere on the map placing grenades at the foot of his enemies. Odd as that may sound, people might actually be playing Worms. SHOCK! HORROR! SOMEONE ACTUALLY PLAYING AN ARTILLERY STRATEGY GAME BY *GASP* FIRING THINGS INTO THE AIR FROM ONE POSITION IN ORDER TO STRIKE HIS ENEMY WHO IS AT ANOTHER POSITION?!


Roper is the scheme made to allow this.

If it was the intention to allow a player to cross all the terrain with just the rope, why is there a jetpack on the same scheme, intermediate? Food for thought - if you're capable of rational thought that is.

It's like talking to a brick wall, honestly. "BUT THE GAME WAS MAAAADE FOR YOU TO GO ANYWHERE ON THE MAP AT ONE TIME HERP DERP"

Why do you fail to READ posts properly and instead only go further in demonstrating the lack of knowledge you have about the game.

Taking the example of elite and intermediate. You only have 2 shots of the rope, not 3 shots as you say...

2 shots of the rope is not enough to be able to cross a whole map, and rarely is it even nessecary to cross an entire map. You only have 2 ropes in elite and 5 ropes in intermediate, so you need to use your ropes wisely.

If you had any experience of how default schemes played in WA (which quite clearly you don't), then you'd know that people dont rope from 1 end of the map to the other and then back again in a single turn in default scheme...

I'm fairly certain I could absolutely thrash the vast majority of people on the original Worms just because of their reliance on the ninja rope and jet packs in the more recent games. My experience so far online with Worms Reloaded is that as soon as your enemy has used up his ninja rope and jetpack, the game is yours because most people are just incapable of playing Worms as originally intended. After they've used their ninja ropes and jetpacks up they will resort to the bunker busters and airstrikes purely because it's an autohit. Pretty sad really, I'd expect ranked matches to be far tighter in the resources they allow.

You really have no idea what your talking about... default scheme players dont rely on the ninja rope, they use it when and if it's nessecary. You only have a limited number of ropes, so you can't use them on every turn...

The thing is, by saying the things you do, you and Melon only show yourselves to not know how people play this game. All of the players playing the intermediate league right not will thrash you in a game. You'll see ninja rope skill is only a very small part of the equation, they thrash you at everything because the people on who play that league learn about every single element of the scheme...

Look, heres PROOF: http://nnnclan.freeforums.org/the-worms-guide-t3.html

Why dont you actually go and look at the intermediate league...

www.normalnonoobs.org

Go and watch some games from the league, and then tell me that the rope is over powerful or that the person won because of the ninja rope. If you actually took the time to see what level default schemes are played on these days then you wouldn't say silly things like that, that I repeat are simply not true.

[DrMelon]

Why do you fail to READ posts properly and instead only go further in demonstrating the lack of knowledge you have about the game.

Taking the example of elite and intermediate. You only have 2 shots of the rope, not 3 shots as you say...

2 shots of the rope is not enough to be able to cross a whole map, and rarely is it even nessecary to cross an entire map. You only have 2 ropes in elite and 5 ropes in intermediate, so you need to use your ropes wisely.

If you had any experience of how default schemes played in WA (which quite clearly you don't), then you'd know that people dont rope from 1 end of the map to the other and then back again in a single turn in default scheme...



Yeah, just keep telling yourself I have no experience. As far as I can see, you're just butthurt that the rope is no longer a god-tool. Suck it up and grow a pair. Or, alternatively, re-learn the rope. Create new styles of roping. See it as an opportunity rather than a problem. Instead of trying to use the rope like the old one, make up new tricks, new strategies to use with it.
After all, it's new ground to be explored. Don't you want to be the first to invent a new style of play? After all, people have had years of practice to perfect tricks on the old one - this new one leaves plenty of opportunity to discover new things.

[bonz]

today Intermediate and Hysteria are two of the most played schemes online.
Please stop talking bullcrap! :mad:
http://stats.worms2d.info/hbschemes.html

9% and 5% are nothing compared to 40%.

[Komo]

Yeah, just keep telling yourself I have no experience. As far as I can see, you're just butthurt that the rope is no longer a god-tool. Suck it up and grow a pair. Or, alternatively, re-learn the rope. Create new styles of roping. See it as an opportunity rather than a problem. Instead of trying to use the rope like the old one, make up new tricks, new strategies to use with it.
After all, it's new ground to be explored. Don't you want to be the first to invent a new style of play? After all, people have had years of practice to perfect tricks on the old one - this new one leaves plenty of opportunity to discover new things.

Nail doesn't care about rope on WR, so how could he be butthurt as you so delicately put it? His whole point is proving you wrong on how you see WA, not WR.

So don't change the subject when you are losing the debate.

[Komo]

Please stop talking bullcrap! :mad:
http://stats.worms2d.info/hbschemes.html

9% and 5% are nothing compared to 40%.


That is for HB only.

You seem to be forgetting all the league games on TuS played, and not to mention, the ridiculous amount of Hysterias and Intermediates hosted by everyone else.

[NAiL]

Yeah, just keep telling yourself I have no experience. As far as I can see, you're just butthurt that the rope is no longer a god-tool. Suck it up and grow a pair.

Why don't you respond to the many valid points ive made instead of resorting to pathetic attempts of being witty and insulting me. I enjoy MANY schemes that dont include the ninja rope at all.


On a normal island terrain, with the normal 3-swing rope, you can still get from one side to the other in less than a few seconds (if you are sufficiently skilled with the rope). This is wrong. The rope should not be able to allow you to pass from one whole side of a map to the other in a scheme not designed to allow that.


I question your experience because you say things like this.

Any Worms Armageddon player playing online will be able to tell you that the two main default schemes that include the use of a limited number of ninja ropes (elite and intermediate), can only shoot TWO times. You are wrong about this, as you are on all of the points that I have brought up in this thread.

I cant say much more to you because you do not respond to points made in peoples posts. Instead you post things that are completely irrelevant, avoid answering the question at hand, and then trying to be funny with your "herp derp" phrase you insist on using time n time again.

If you respond, respond to the points ive made. Dont completely avoid everything you've been corrected on.

[DrMelon]

So don't change the subject

The title of this thread is..?
The Worms Reloaded Rope.
Reloaded.

[NAiL]

Please stop talking bullcrap! :mad:
http://stats.worms2d.info/hbschemes.html

9% and 5% are nothing compared to 40%.

As has been said already, what does HB stats have to do with ANYTHING?

Do I really have to repeat myself time and time again...

You have not taken into account the THOUSANDS of none roping schemes hosted by players WITHOUT HB. Nobody uses hosting buddy to host league games.

www.normalnonoobs.org

There are hundreds of intermediate games being hosted without HB every month.

There are hundreds of non roping schemes being hosted WITHOUT HB for Worm Olympics over the past few months. http://wormolympics.com/tournaments

There are hundreds of non roping schemes being hosted WITHOUT HB for tus every week. www.tus-wa.com

The list goes on...

How popular rope schemes are is irellevant to the fact that for both roping AND "normal" schemes, WA is far superior to WR.

[Komo]

The title of this thread is..?
The Worms Reloaded Rope.
Reloaded.


You know fine well I am talking about the debate you are having with Nail, everytime he catches you and proves you wrong on something you change the subject and try and find something else to rant about to him...

[Draconis]

Why do you fail to READ posts properly and instead only go further in demonstrating the lack of knowledge you have about the game.

Taking the example of elite and intermediate. You only have 2 shots of the rope, not 3 shots as you say...

2 shots of the rope is not enough to be able to cross a whole map, and rarely is it even nessecary to cross an entire map. You only have 2 ropes in elite and 5 ropes in intermediate, so you need to use your ropes wisely.

If you had any experience of how default schemes played in WA (which quite clearly you don't), then you'd know that people dont rope from 1 end of the map to the other and then back again in a single turn in default scheme...



You really have no idea what your talking about... default scheme players dont rely on the ninja rope, they use it when and if it's nessecary. You only have a limited number of ropes, so you can't use them on every turn...

The thing is, by saying the things you do, you and Melon only show yourselves to not know how people play this game. All of the players playing the intermediate league right not will thrash you in a game. You'll see ninja rope skill is only a very small part of the equation, they thrash you at everything because the people on who play that league learn about every single element of the scheme...

Look, heres PROOF: http://nnnclan.freeforums.org/the-worms-guide-t3.html

Why dont you actually go and look at the intermediate league...

www.normalnonoobs.org

Go and watch some games from the league, and then tell me that the rope is over powerful or that the person won because of the ninja rope. If you actually took the time to see what level default schemes are played on these days then you wouldn't say silly things like that, that I repeat are simply not true.

Heh, you're right I couldn't care less about watching Worms matches or the Worms leagues in general to be honest. I play Worms with my friends and with the random people I get matched with online and speak only from my own experience of Worms Reloaded so far. But if the ninja rope is a small part of the Worms experience for the community as you're keen to point out, why are people rubbishing the entire game because of the way the new rope works? That's what I have a problem with because it's really unfair. I agree that in an ideal world a Worms game should cater to everyone but it's just one utility that doesn't work as some people think it should. The fact that so many people are condemning the game for that alone suggests that it's a far more important aspect of the game to them than as was intended when the tool was first devised doesn't it?

[NAiL]

Heh, you're right I couldn't care less about watching Worms matches or the Worms leagues in general to be honest. I play Worms with my friends and with the random people I get matched with online and speak only from my own experience of Worms Reloaded so far. But if the ninja rope is a small part of the Worms experience for the community as you're keen to point out, why are people rubbishing the entire game because of the way the new rope works? That's what I have a problem with because it's really unfair. I agree that in an ideal world a Worms game should cater to everyone but it's just one utility that doesn't work as some people think it should. The fact that so many people are condemning the game for that alone suggests that it's a far more important aspect of the game to them than as was intended when the tool was first devised doesn't it?

This discussion is obviously too complicated for you.

In the post you quoted me on I am talking about how DrMelon is wrong about how the ninja rope is "over powered" in WA. Thats Worms Armageddon, NOT Worms Reloaded.

Take time to make sure you actually understand what has been said before posting yet another completely irellevant post. Just incase you didnt understand the previous paragraph ill repeat it again. In the post you quoted me on I was talking about Worms Armageddon, NOT Worms Reloaded.

Do you understand that?

As for rope being the only "problem" with WR, have you checked any of the complaints threads on the forum? The ninja rope physics is the tip of the iceberg. The whole point ive been making is that even for none roping schemes, WA is still far better than WR. Please read properly and make sure you understand what has been said before making another post that bares no relevance to what you have quoted me on...

[Draconis]

This discussion is obviously too complicated for you.

In the post you quoted me on I am talking about how DrMelon is wrong about how the ninja rope is "over powered" in WA. Thats Worms Armageddon, NOT Worms Reloaded.

Take time to make sure you actually understand what has been said before posting yet another completely irellevant post. Just incase you didnt understand the previous paragraph ill repeat it again. In the post you quoted me on I was talking about Worms Armageddon, NOT Worms Reloaded.

Do you understand that?

As for rope being the only "problem" with WR, have you checked any of the complaints threads on the forum? The ninja rope physics is the tip of the iceberg. the whole point ive been making is that even for none roping schemes, WA is still far better than WR. Please read properly and make sure you understand what has been said before making another post that bares no relevance to what you have quoted me on...

Eh... you quoted me first regarding Worms Reloaded and I responded to what you said to me so thanks for being patronising but I hope you understand now. Yes I have read the complaint threads which is precisely why I said what I did. If Worms Reloaded sucks and Worms Armageddon rules, well I guess you'll be sticking to the latter then eh? Or maybe you'll just constantly whine about the former. Hmm I wonder.

[NAiL]

Eh... you quoted me first regarding Worms Reloaded and I responded to what you said to me so thanks for being patronising but I hope you understand now. Yes I have read the complaint threads which is precisely why I said what I did. If Worms Reloaded sucks and Worms Armageddon rules, well I guess you'll be sticking to the latter then eh? Or maybe you'll just constantly whine about the former. Hmm I wonder.

You quoted a post I made about Worms Armageddon, then made points about Worms Reloaded, confusing.

Anyway im not going to repeat myself anymore, ive said all I can say,

[lucidry]

Nail doesn't care about rope on WR, so how could he be butthurt as you so delicately put it? His whole point is proving you wrong on how you see WA, not WR.

So don't change the subject when you are losing the debate.

- amen.

just some trolling going on now.

What I am starting to really hate seeing is the novice players who hate the W:A roping because they never got used to it, claim that the roping in WR is absolutely balanced and fair and perfect... they are out of their minds.
The rope doesn't react in any way that makes any sense, they even put in the scheme 'rope race' yet to race with this rope isn't fun at all, and you can't do any of the fun tricks you could do in WA. People who bought this game and hoped for roperace and shopper to be as fun in WA were disappointed. I certainly am... and instead of arguing that this rope is fair and balanced and everything else, why not just admit that there was a place for that type of physics, and allow the true worms fans to have their piece of the game???

I think the game should allow some schemes or some custom game options that allow the old style of rope. Let the players decide on the game types if they want to play 'W2:A' or 'W:A' (or WWP which is very similar) style rope play in their games.

That will end this silly, redundant flaming argument that this has turned into.

[Draconis]

I certainly am... and instead of arguing that this rope is fair and balanced and everything else, why not just admit that there was a place for that type of physics, and allow the true worms fans to have their piece of the game???


True Worms fans? If that was the case then you wouldn't care less about the ninja rope which was never intended to be the only thing that made the game worth playing. In the original Worms game it was very much as it is now, actually less flexible because Worms was never about a ninja rope, it was about using judgement to land good shots on your enemy. It was basically an update of the Scorched Tanks/Scorched Earth premise. An artillery game in other words.
So this idea that people who have no interest in the ninja rope are not "true Worms fans" is completely untrue, quite the opposite in fact. The game might have been hijacked by a bunch of ropers in the Armageddon days but some of us still appreciate the spirit that made the series what it is.

[DrMelon]

really hate seeing is the novice players who hate the W:A roping because they never got used to it, claim that the roping in WR is absolutely balanced and fair and perfect... they are out of their minds.



There's that assumption again. Getting old now.

[lucidry]

True Worms fans? If that was the case then you wouldn't care less about the ninja rope which was never intended to be the only thing that made the game worth playing. In the original Worms game it was very much as it is now, actually less flexible because Worms was never about a ninja rope, it was about using judgement to land good shots on your enemy. It was basically an update of the Scorched Tanks/Scorched Earth premise. An artillery game in other words.
So this idea that people who have no interest in the ninja rope are not "true Worms fans" is completely untrue, quite the opposite in fact. The game might have been hijacked by a bunch of ropers in the Armageddon days but some of us still appreciate the spirit that made the series what it is.

you're making a very mistaken presumption that the rope has always been as it is , and unnaturally, people came in and 'ruined the game' when WWP and W:A came around, and made something that was never meant to be, a popular part of the game.

WWP and W:A 'enhanced' portions of the mechanic of roping that made playing and practicing with the rope allowed you to do maneuvers that were only possible with that style of gameplay / physics.

Then they went backwards with the Xbox release, made it more playable with a 'game controller' (as opposed to keypad which to rope with skill you need to use to get the proper inputs in quickly) and made it more 'novice style' for gamers on console.
For Worms Reloaded, make it PC physics, and PC game play. We are, after all, playing on PC. not a game console.

[Akuryou13]

What I am starting to really hate seeing is the novice players who hate the W:A roping because they never got used to it, claim that the roping in WR is absolutely balanced and fair and perfect... they are out of their minds. um.....I was playing ropers when they first launched and for years after. I was a roper back when "pro" was added as a prefix to the term. I learned and mastered all the tricks while there was still a highly active online community to practice against. I spent hours and hours online and off practicing my roping skills to perfection, and when I picked up reloaded, I may have been a bit rusty and the physics may have been changed, but I picked it right up and loved it.

not because I never got used to the old rope, or because I didn't like the old roper schemes, but because the new rope feels more tactical than before. It's harder to use and, because of that, facilitates skillful artillery shots instead of just swinging around and dropping weapons where you want them, skilllessly. You can still go from one end to the next of a level, so any arguments disputing that is largely nonsense, but now it's harder to go upwards with the rope. This not only makes the rope less overpowered than it was, but now we have an actual use for the jetpack. the rope lets you play spiderman all day long, but restricts just enough to require thought in your movement. will you have time to swing enough to get over that cliff? if not, will a jetpack be able to do the job with its very limited fuel? is the wind blowing to accommodate a bazooka shell? how about a grenade? perhaps it'd be best to dig in.

before, all you thought was "ok. rope. let's swing over to him and drop a _________ on his head".

[lucidry]

um.....I was playing ropers when they first launched and for years after. I was a roper back when "pro" was added as a prefix to the term. I learned and mastered all the tricks while there was still a highly active online community to practice against. I spent hours and hours online and off practicing my roping skills to perfection, and when I picked up reloaded, I may have been a bit rusty and the physics may have been changed, but I picked it right up and loved it.

not because I never got used to the old rope, or because I didn't like the old roper schemes, but because the new rope feels more tactical than before. It's harder to use and, because of that, facilitates skillful artillery shots instead of just swinging around and dropping weapons where you want them, skilllessly. You can still go from one end to the next of a level, so any arguments disputing that is largely nonsense, but now it's harder to go upwards with the rope. This not only makes the rope less overpowered than it was, but now we have an actual use for the jetpack. the rope lets you play spiderman all day long, but restricts just enough to require thought in your movement. will you have time to swing enough to get over that cliff? if not, will a jetpack be able to do the job with its very limited fuel? is the wind blowing to accommodate a bazooka shell? how about a grenade? perhaps it'd be best to dig in.

before, all you thought was "ok. rope. let's swing over to him and drop a _________ on his head".

again, more of this meandering blather about how the 'new rope makes it so you have to re-learn the other aspects of the game!! yeah!'

there are 2 major contributors to your lack of logic in this argument:
A) Those who know how to use the W:A rope don't 'not' know how to use the other weapons including aiming and shooting.

B) a carryover from A, don't presume just because we want the old physics of the rope back for specific 'schemes' or as an option, doesn't mean people can't play ALL the OTHER schemes ANYWAY.

[avirex]

um.....I was playing ropers when they first launched and for years after. I was a roper back when "pro" was added as a prefix to the term.

lol, thats funny :p im old school, to the old schoolers! lol i was starting to rope shortly after the scheme was invented on worms2.. roping was such a big part of the game, us worms2ers either BNG'd or ROPED... we also invented rope race, and some other fun schemes, such sheep race, and a default game "jake" games.. when w:a was made the took away alot of the scheme option editing possibilites.. which really sucked, but they took into consideration all the things that w2 players really enjoyed.. and the hit the NAiL on the head. when they made wwp.. they did alright, not as good as w:a though... thats why wwp is pretty much dead, and w:a is as strong as ever...

now when they made w:r they obviously had w:a roping fanatics in mind, considering they even incorporated the rope racing scheme.. but, they dropped the ball on it.. (i have not played it yet, and doubt i will) but from what i hear the roping is horrible...

and to say that defaults schemes only rely on rope, and there for are limited on tactics? thats just silly... lol... its much more tactics when u have to petrol them from roping to u, girder them from roping to you..

or maybe SG them down a level, so it forces them to use rope just to attack you (ropes r limited) so there is just so much to the game that you obviously know nothing about... its pretty clear to me that most people posting here are just the newbs that think default games are all about tossing weapons at eachother, and ocasional ropeing to attack... there is much much more to the game.. i can asure you i have put more hours, and years then most anyone on these forums, and w:a.. and yet im still learning tactics, and still appreciate the game :)

one thing is clear, you guyz belong at w:r.

[KRD]

And yet, somehow, all you self-proclaimed experts in what Worms was designed to be like in the first place and how it's supposed to be played completely missed the fact that weapons in the series are supposed to be balanced through their availability, power and delay in any given scheme, not their behaviour and physics. Team17 are equally blind to this, judging by the standard scheme sets that come with Reloaded. Your agreeing with them does not make you right.

Not only do you not understand the beauty of the WA Ninja Rope [in both roping and default schemes], you don't even deserve to have it explained to you.

[Komo]

not because I never got used to the old rope, or because I didn't like the old roper schemes, but because the new rope feels more tactical than before. It's harder to use and, because of that, facilitates skillful artillery shots instead of just swinging around and dropping weapons where you want them, skilllessly. You can still go from one end to the next of a level, so any arguments disputing that is largely nonsense, but now it's harder to go upwards with the rope. This not only makes the rope less overpowered than it was, but now we have an actual use for the jetpack. the rope lets you play spiderman all day long, but restricts just enough to require thought in your movement. will you have time to swing enough to get over that cliff? if not, will a jetpack be able to do the job with its very limited fuel? is the wind blowing to accommodate a bazooka shell? how about a grenade? perhaps it'd be best to dig in.


I agree with this except you are wrong about one thing, it does take skill, and alot of it, to use the rope on WA to it's full potential, swinging around and dropping weapons where you want them takes skill to do it perfect, for example the better you are with rope means you can aim your drop on the head so it pushes the worm somewhere it doesn't want to be, ie, water, or stuck somewhere, onto a mine etc, and once you have made your move if you are fast enough can use the rope to find a very good hide.

I agree with you on everything else though, it's more of a challenge on WR and I like that :)

[NAiL]

True Worms fans? If that was the case then you wouldn't care less about the ninja rope which was never intended to be the only thing that made the game worth playing. In the original Worms game it was very much as it is now, actually less flexible because Worms was never about a ninja rope, it was about using judgement to land good shots on your enemy. It was basically an update of the Scorched Tanks/Scorched Earth premise. An artillery game in other words.
So this idea that people who have no interest in the ninja rope are not "true Worms fans" is completely untrue, quite the opposite in fact. The game might have been hijacked by a bunch of ropers in the Armageddon days but some of us still appreciate the spirit that made the series what it is.

This assumption is wrong.

You have said yourself, your not active in this community, you don't know how this game is regulary played by players. The ninja rope ISNT the only thing people find great about the game, its one of MANY great things.

A whole load of players are ALL ROUNDERS. This means that they are competent in a number of different schemes, both roping and defualt schemes. Why on earth do you assume that because somebody enjoys using the ninja rope, they enjoy no other form of worming... this is ignorance by anyones standards.

Sure theres lots of players who only like to play rope games, but so what? There are just as many people who ONLY enjoy defaults. It appears to me that you are somebody who only enjoys default schemes.

Im an all rounder and enjoy a broad range of schemes, the fact you make assumptions that anyone who enjoys playing a ttrr or roper is incapable of enjoying any other form of worming is simply not true, and if you knew anything about the sorts of players on WA you'd know this.

The point is, as Ive said so many times before... the original worms isnt still massively played by a large number of people as WA is. Worms Armageddon is a 10 year old game thats still actively played, more so than its EVER been before. Would it not make sense to you, to try and please as many WA fans as possible, seeing as WA is the must actively played Worms game of all time?

You wouldnt know this because as you've already said, you "only play with your friends". Now there is nothing wrong with this, I dont care how or who you play with, but when you dont properly understand how the MAJORITY of people playing WA today play and use the game, you cannot make assumptions like that.

Understand that I am not putting you down for the fact you dont play regulary online. The fact of the matter is that if you dont play regulary online, then you don't undersand how the game is regulary played online.

[Komo]

WA is actually over 11 years old :P Which is a good thing :D

[greyze]

This is a very ignorant thing to say, its just not true. Read my post at the top of this page. The SCHEMES that you are talking about are RR, Roper and Shopper schemes. These are a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE of SCHEMES that are actively played on WA today. To say that 99% of schemes require roping for victory is simply, not true.

Actually it's completely true. While what I said represents them certain schemes you mentioned, they are unfortunately the only schemes that are really played online in WA for the past several years. Now obviously not 100% as there are the occasional BnG or normal match... Just because theres like 4 dozen interesting schemes? doesn't mean play play them all the time, rope games are almost always on in WA.
And most of my post wasn't even about the schemes to play online (while that is still a problem). My post is directed to the fact how powerful the rope is, as I said in my post the rope has the capability to do to sooooo much in WA, even in a normal scheme the rope can still be used in ways that makes plenty of other items pointless, and as soon as one person enters that game with some rope skill, I guarantee you will see him using the rope constantly to get the best kills off in that normal match, even against newbies.

The rope was great in WA, very interesting indeed. But this is a new game thats catered to ALL aspects of people, not just rope lovers. And to be honest I would be very anoyed if I were T17.. going through all that effort making a game that has so much potential and then to only see that most of it doesn't matter because all they see is ROPE ROPE ROPE.

[KRD]

Your opinion is such as it is because it is based on years upon years of propaganda that's been spread throughout the non-competitive Worms community so diligently that it has rendered it invisible to all but those who actually play the game online today, at a high enough level. The sort of people who know that if you like to play a scheme, any scheme, you can find people to play it with. In the middle of the night.

Sure, the vast majority of newbies on WormNet1 have had a couple bad experiences playing Intermediate with the type of players who make the rope seem overpowered. But those who dealt with it like proper computer game enthusiasts, sucked it in and learned from it all, were rewarded with the knowledge that you can become infinitely better than those rope happy idiots if you just put your mind to it and practice for a month. There are several layers of strategy and weapon skill to a scheme like Intermediate and the Ninja Rope, reaching difficult places with it and using it to knock your opponent's worms is little more than the cherry on top.

I guess it's everyone's right to blatantly ignore this enormous depth that Worms has, but don't expect us not to try and raise some doubt about it in your minds. This is a series of games we care too much about not to at least try.

[SupSuper]

its all a conspiracy dont you see fight the man

[greyze]

Your opinion is such as it is because it is based on years upon years of propaganda that's been spread throughout the non-competitive Worms community so diligently that it has rendered it invisible to all but those who actually play the game online today, at a high enough level. The sort of people who know that if you like to play a scheme, any scheme, you can find people to play it with. In the middle of the night.

Sure, the vast majority of newbies on WormNet1 have had a couple bad experiences playing Intermediate with the type of players who make the rope seem overpowered. But those who dealt with it like proper computer game enthusiasts, sucked it in and learned from it all, were rewarded with the knowledge that you can become infinitely better than those rope happy idiots if you just put your mind to it and practice for a month. There are several layers of strategy and weapon skill to a scheme like Intermediate and the Ninja Rope, reaching difficult places with it and using it to knock your opponent's worms is little more than the cherry on top.

I guess it's everyone's right to blatantly ignore this enormous depth that Worms has, but don't expect us not to try and raise some doubt about it in your minds. This is a series of games we care too much about not to at least try.

I stand by the opinion that "almost" all WA games online are based on rope and/or various other schemes, even normal! where rope is still heavily used to win the fight. Being a WA vet for several years most of the time playing several hours a day (admittidly not in the past few months though), I see what I see.

And you seem to be missing the fact that this is a new game, that is not meant to be tailored from WA standards. A typical user shouldn't have to go looking for a casual (or any other) match for lengthy times rummaging through rope lobbys.. a player should not have to practice the rope for a month just so he can stand a chance in a match of WA standards.

I already said the WA Rope was great fun and well designed, it done alot of good but it also done alot of stuff that was unforseen and never intended.
This "NEW" game, Team17s goal is to recreate the great worms game they were known for, to bring in new audiences, enforce their original intentions on gameplay and ultimately be a good business. Not to bring in WA v2.0 with HD graphics that only pleases a small majority of people today.

Basically what people need to see is that WA is currently an excellent and functional game that does not need changing or fixing. If people love the rope then they should stay with WA because the goal of WR is to be something much more different and its as simple as that.

And please, take a bow to Cybershadow as he "still" continues to improve WA for them classic players.

[Shroom!]

Actually, players should have to practice for a month to get good at the rope. Just like they should have to practice with every weapon. If you aren't skilled enough to win against ropers then maybe you should practice?

Also, you're telling those of us who are unhappy with W:R to go back to W:A? We paid money for it the same as you did. There are many more people complaining about various aspects of the game than there are those praising it. Several things need fixing besides the rope. Oh but it doesn't matter, we'll chalk the money spent down to a loss and crawl back to W:A shall we?

[Akuryou13]

and to say that defaults schemes only rely on rope, and there for are limited on tactics? thats just silly... lol... its much more tactics when u have to petrol them from roping to u, girder them from roping to you..

or maybe SG them down a level, so it forces them to use rope just to attack you (ropes r limited) so there is just so much to the game that you obviously know nothing about... its pretty clear to me that most people posting here are just the newbs that think default games are all about tossing weapons at eachother, and ocasional ropeing to attack... there is much much more to the game.. i can asure you i have put more hours, and years then most anyone on these forums, and w:a.. and yet im still learning tactics, and still appreciate the game :)

I agree with this except you are wrong about one thing, it does take skill, and alot of it, to use the rope on WA to it's full potentialactually I'll just reply to both of these at once. I didn't say that the armageddon rope required no skill or tactics. I just said that the new rope requires MORE of those 2 things. I spent hours unknown learning to use the armageddon rope, it obviously requires a ton of skill, and the fact that so many people play roper games is a testament to how much it requires tactics as well. now the rope is weaker than it used to be. personally? I like this. it requires more thought to plan out a rope-based attack because it takes time to maneuver yourself if you're needing to go upwards, and thus it gives a usefulness to the jetpack that previously wasn't really there, imo. yes, the rope isn't as useful for roping games the way they were played in armageddon, but I'm sure someone will invent new ways to play those modes that will work just as effectively (or at least, they'll do this once the lack of momentum carrying over is fixed). keep in mind that the rope is pretty much identical to the way it used to be, the only difference is that the worms are heavier now and the momentum doesn't carry over. the momentum thing is a bug that needs to be fixed, and once it is, the rope will act exactly the same, only with heavier worms. it won't take long at all for people to become accustomed to that. that's why all the people complaining right now annoy me so much. It's different, yes, but minus the one fix it needs, it's really not THAT different. give it time.

[NAiL]

My post is directed to the fact how powerful the rope is, as I said in my post the rope has the capability to do to sooooo much in WA, even in a normal scheme the rope can still be used in ways that makes plenty of other items pointless, and as soon as one person enters that game with some rope skill, I guarantee you will see him using the rope constantly to get the best kills off in that normal match, even against newbies.

The ninja rope is only "overpowered" if players allow it to be overpowered.
If you actually played WA actively online with skilled players, you'd know that in the two main defaulting schemes intermediate and elite, the ninja rope is limited to two swings per rope and you only have a limited number of ropes. Obviously playing intermediate with infinite ropes on 5 star power RUINS the scheme. Its not the rope that unbalances things, its the scheme.
If you think that 2 shots is too useful a tool to make for an enjoyable game, then you can adjust the power so that it only shoots once...

If you honestly think that it will be the better roper that will win the match then you are very, very wrong. This really isnt a matter of opinion, this is a case of you not actively playing Worms Armageddon enough to realise the level that schemes are played on.

A newbie will lose to a "pro" player at intermediate regardless of their ninja rope skill. Ninja rope skill is a very tiny part of the whole scheme, yes it plays an important part, but its only a small part of the overal stratgey. Many of the best elite and intermediate players are not very good at rope schemes, they still win defaults though because ROPING IS A SMALL FACTOR IN THE EQUATION.

Actually it's completely true. While what I said represents them certain schemes you mentioned, they are unfortunately the only schemes that are really played online in WA for the past several years.

The only schemes in which having good roping skills are essential, ARE ROPING SCHEMES! Obviously you have to master the basics to be able to use the rope effectively in default games, but nowhere near the level required for roping schemes. People complaining that they lose in defaults because of their inability to use the ninja rope of as well as their opponant are talking complete and utter garbage.

If you dont like roping schemes, don't play roping schemes!
As ive already said, if you actually checked the links ive posted, www.normalnonoobs.org, www.tus-wa.com, http://wormolympics.com/, then you'd realise that there are just as many non roping schemes being played as there are roping schemes. I cant make this any more clear, you saying that "99% of schemes hosted are roping schemes", is absolutely not true.


The rope was great in WA, very interesting indeed. But this is a new game thats catered to ALL aspects of people, not just rope lovers. And to be honest I would be very anoyed if I were T17.. going through all that effort making a game that has so much potential and then to only see that most of it doesn't matter because all they see is ROPE ROPE ROPE.

Again, this is another completely wrong thing to say. Team17 obviously liked the idea of "roping" as they've included roping schemes in their new game...

Its actually the opposite of what you say, WR doesnt "cater to ALL aspects of people" because WR does not cater for the majority of players who enjoy playing rope schemes, OR those who enjoy playing default schemes, OR those who enjoy playing both. The game is worse on all counts in comparisson to WA, everyone gets a raw deal.

The fact is, WA isnt all "ROPE ROPE ROPE" as you say.
Your are clearly oblivious to the fact that there is a very large proportion of worms players who play a broad range of schemes, both roping and non roping actively on WA. Ive already given you links so you can see for yourself just some of the places where this is taking place. This not even including all of the people who play default games for fun.

[Extremist2]

Please shut up , NAiL. Nobody cares about the opinons/observations of someone who can't say a single nice thing about anybody else, and constantly claims to be the foremost expert on Worms roping.

This would be a very interesting debate if it wasn't for the incessant flood of vitriol... :p

Here's my take:

1. BEYOND HostingBuddy, between the time that I first played WA on WormNET (around '02/'03) and stopped (about 6 months ago), the MAJORITY of the games being hosted (about 75 percent) were rope-based. This is only what I personally saw, I wasn't on at all times.

2. Yes, the ropes usefulness is dependent on the scheme. Elite and T17 are good examples of curbing its power. No, you do not need the rope to win a standard scheme. The top members of the NNN clan use normal weapons most of the time, and can consistently beat everyone but their own members. However, limited-rope schemes are not very popular FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, and it's harder to get good at a scheme like BnG than it is Shopper. The rope is a noob magnet, and I'M always seeing tons of players on WormNET I've never heard of, often from countries I didn't even know had the internet.

3. Reloaded is obviously meant not to be a clone of WA. You need to look at the whole game to be able to give an accurate review, not just this one feature (the rope, which is probably the most well known feature of WA). When I look at Reloaded, I see a game that panders to casual gamers (this is the state of the entire game industry, unfortunately), and has way too many random factors in its gameplay to be very competitive. Not only has WA retained it's popularity over a very long period of time, including in tourneys & leagues, I'm pretty that sure it's the most well-reviewed of the series. Team17 has made a HUGE mistake by not releaseing a sequel that improves on its winning formula.

Obviously, NAiL will not be changing his spots anytime soon, which will cause this thread to bottom out. I, therefore, will not participate in the discussion any further, as to avoid the impending carnage. Plus, I've gone on too long anyways (not too many who know when to curb their enthusiasm, eh? ;)).

[NAiL]

Obviously people do care about what I have to say, you obviously care enough to bother telling me what a nasty person I am.

All ive done is point out common misconceptions that people are making about the way WA is played, why should I have a nice word to say to anyone? Can you show me one post in this thread where anybody has said a "nice word" about anyone? No, you cant, so cut this irellevant nonsense out of your text.

Your opinion is such as it is because it is based on years upon years of propaganda that's been spread throughout the non-competitive Worms community so diligently that it has rendered it invisible to all but those who actually play the game online today, at a high enough level. The sort of people who know that if you like to play a scheme, any scheme, you can find people to play it with. In the middle of the night.

Sure, the vast majority of newbies on WormNet1 have had a couple bad experiences playing Intermediate with the type of players who make the rope seem overpowered. But those who dealt with it like proper computer game enthusiasts, sucked it in and learned from it all, were rewarded with the knowledge that you can become infinitely better than those rope happy idiots if you just put your mind to it and practice for a month. There are several layers of strategy and weapon skill to a scheme like Intermediate and the Ninja Rope, reaching difficult places with it and using it to knock your opponent's worms is little more than the cherry on top.

I guess it's everyone's right to blatantly ignore this enormous depth that Worms has, but don't expect us not to try and raise some doubt about it in your minds. This is a series of games we care too much about not to at least try.

Is KRD a nice enough person to warrent his opinion being worthwhile in your eyes?

If you actually read my posts properly you'd see ive not said a bad word to anyone, all ive done is point out the facts.

Please shut up , NAiL. Nobody cares about the opinons/observations of someone who can't say a single nice thing about anybody else, and constantly claims to be the foremost expert on Worms roping.


Why are you making things up about me?

Can you please quote me on when I calimed to ever be the "foremost expert on roping"?

Whats im so dumbfounded by is the fact that everything I have said about roping, is basic common knowledge amongst regular online worms players. We are talking about the 2 swing limit in a default for goodness sake, this is basic stuff most worms players understand...

[MonkeyforaHead]

Hey guys the game updated today and the rope seems to have been tweaked yet closer to the W:A rope, confirm/deny

Actually I may just be getting used to it.

[Komo]

Please shut up , NAiL. Nobody cares about the opinons/observations of someone who can't say a single nice thing about anybody else, and constantly claims to be the foremost expert on Worms roping.

This would be a very interesting debate if it wasn't for the incessant flood of vitriol... :p

Here's my take:

1. BEYOND HostingBuddy, between the time that I first played WA on WormNET (around '02/'03) and stopped (about 6 months ago), the MAJORITY of the games being hosted (about 75 percent) were rope-based. This is only what I personally saw, I wasn't on at all times.

2. Yes, the ropes usefulness is dependent on the scheme. Elite and T17 are good examples of curbing its power. No, you do not need the rope to win a standard scheme. The top members of the NNN clan use normal weapons most of the time, and can consistently beat everyone but their own members. However, limited-rope schemes are not very popular FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, and it's harder to get good at a scheme like BnG than it is Shopper. The rope is a noob magnet, and I'M always seeing tons of players on WormNET I've never heard of, often from countries I didn't even know had the internet.

3. Reloaded is obviously meant not to be a clone of WA. You need to look at the whole game to be able to give an accurate review, not just this one feature (the rope, which is probably the most well known feature of WA). When I look at Reloaded, I see a game that panders to casual gamers (this is the state of the entire game industry, unfortunately), and has way too many random factors in its gameplay to be very competitive. Not only has WA retained it's popularity over a very long period of time, including in tourneys & leagues, I'm pretty that sure it's the most well-reviewed of the series. Team17 has made a HUGE mistake by not releaseing a sequel that improves on its winning formula.

Obviously, NAiL will not be changing his spots anytime soon, which will cause this thread to bottom out. I, therefore, will not participate in the discussion any further, as to avoid the impending carnage. Plus, I've gone on too long anyways (not too many who know when to curb their enthusiasm, eh? ;)).


I agree totally with everything you have said here, except for the 1st paragraph, and the last paragraph.

In terms of number 1, you are actually right, it wasn't until about 1-2 years ago that Hysteria became a ridiculous huge passion for most people (that I seen anyway) and it was about 4 years ago that I started seeing a ridiculous rise in the amount of shoppers played, before this, it was mostly ropers/shoppers, and I am talking all the way back to the middle of 1999.

In 2000, Ropers/Warmers became the most popular schemes without a doubt, a few years later and Elites started getting more popular also, with RopeRaces picking up alot of interest also, a few years even later, Infinite time was added and TTRR was born, This has caused MAJOR interest since and is one of the most successful schemes, around the same time NNN people started spreading out the Intermediate scheme pubicly gaining alot of interest, and shoppers also (that I seen/noticed) and in the last few years, Shoppers, Hysterias and Intermediates have dominated the main channels in terms of funners.

Personally, the random schemes I see the most throughout everyday, in order to the best of my knowledge are Shoppers/Intermediates/Hysterias.

The point is, NONE of these schemes depend on being great with the rope, Hysteria doesn't even have rope in it, even shopper the rope has nothing to do with the difference between winning and losing because it's all about whats in the crates, what you get and what you can do with what you get.

[franpa]

Having not read anything in this thread I will say this: The current implementation is hopeless at vertical travel.

[Komo]

Having not read anything in this thread I will say this: The current implementation is hopeless at vertical travel.

True :) And hi franpa :D

[greyze]

Obviously, NAiL will not be changing his spots anytime soon, which will cause this thread to bottom out. I, therefore, will not participate in the discussion any further, as to avoid the impending carnage. Plus, I've gone on too long anyways (not too many who know when to curb their enthusiasm, eh? ;)).

Well, NAiL seems to have completely ignored what I said and talked about entirely different and random matters.. But I recommend not giving up! constructive critism and reasoned logic is what makes a thread worth while!

[Komo]

Well, NAiL seems to have completely ignored what I said and talked about entirely different and random matters.. But I recommend not giving up! constructive critism and reasoned logic is what makes a thread worth while!

No he hasn't, retrace your steps, you will find he is the defendant, and he is doing a damn good job of it.

[Thurbo]

Anybody know a good recording program? I'd really like to show you how this rope is not that different from WA. I'm able to do a few old, a few new tricks with it, it works different and it's harder, but if you are used to it you are perfectly able to rope from point A to point B of the map, still. Actually this is bad regarding balance, but it takes some time and in most of the cases a jet pack is more useful (This time around it in fact is more powerful than the rope :eek:).

Anyway what I actually like Worms for is the strategy, turn-based gameplay fun. It surprised me a bit how it could turn from this into a "ninja-simulator" in Worms Armageddon, but it's understandable if you look at the abilities rope-based schemes contain. It's something like a whole sub-genre. I think the new rope to be really awesome since it's way more balanced and useful in normal matches.

Of course, Team17 could optionally add a super rope only useable in rope races, but actually you could just keep playing Worms Armageddon since this game already got the rope you want. If you aren't really interested in a strategy game, bought WR and expected it to be a ninja-simulator again then you wasted 20 bucks. Sorry, dudes :p

[Psy-UK]

Having not read anything in this thread I will say this: The current implementation is hopeless at vertical travel.

The truth.

[Thurbo]

A lie.
Works perfectly to me.

[Komo]

The truth.

Are you Psydome? That used to be the man at BnG?

[lDarKl]

Anybody know a good recording program? I'd really like to show you how this rope is not that different from WA. I'm able to do a few old, a few new tricks with it, it works different and it's harder, but if you are used to it you are perfectly able to rope from point A to point B of the map, still. Actually this is bad regarding balance, but it takes some time and in most of the cases a jet pack is more useful (This time around it in fact is more powerful than the rope :eek:).

Anyway what I actually like Worms for is the strategy, turn-based gameplay fun. It surprised me a bit how it could turn from this into a "ninja-simulator" in Worms Armageddon, but it's understandable if you look at the abilities rope-based schemes contain. It's something like a whole sub-genre. I think the new rope to be really awesome since it's way more balanced and useful in normal matches.

Of course, Team17 could optionally add a super rope only useable in rope races, but actually you could just keep playing Worms Armageddon since this game already got the rope you want. If you aren't really interested in a strategy game, bought WR and expected it to be a ninja-simulator again then you wasted 20 bucks. Sorry, dudes :p

About this whole "balance" stuff, I'll be blunt now since I already pointed out why the whole argument is invalid.

All the people who are happy with the current W:R rope are guys who weren't able to do sh*t with the W:A rope and thus lost their beloved default games to those who were skilled in rope usage. The fact that even the skilled guys can't use the W:R rope like they used it in W:A increases the chances for you non-ropers dramatically. That's your whole point from what I could gather from this thread, but your arguments are plain wrong.

[Random00]

First of all, sorry if my english sucks. If you have problems understanding what I mean, then please feel free to ask ;d

And now, lets start :)
I just read all posts here and there were quite a few that made me really angry, because they were just totally wrong (I really dont have another hour to quote everything ;) ), because I really love Worms and I spent so much time playing it. I started playing W:A online in January 2001 and I never had a break that lasted more then 1 month.

So now, lets go to the topic:
A new 2D Worms version for PC. Great! But which features should this new version have to be better then any previous version of worms?
The basic concept should still be the same, sure. Turn-based artillery, fine. There should be some teams of worms that fight each other and the last survivor wins, yup. Thats the basic concepts, but thats not what made W:A that unique and joyful in the past.
It's the detailed physics, the huge amount of different weapons you have and that are easy to use, but so hard to master on very high level. It's the tactical component of the game with using worm advantage, counting the opponents weaponary, etc. It's the amazing variety of Schemes.

And thats where we come to the rope in W:R. It may be better for the Standard Deathmatch Scheme, also known as Intermediate in W:A. But I also doubt that. But its definetly a lot worse for every scheme thats based on roping, like Roper, RopeRace or even Shopper (just to mention a few). So how can you say the rope is balanced when it destroys the fun of so many schemes? Like someone posted, 40% of all games hosted by HostingBuddy on WormNet are Shopper games and you just cant play a proper Shopper with the W:R rope.

Lets come to another point that was mmentioned a few times by the ones liking the W:R rope: "W:A rope is overpowered".

I really thought some minutes about it now. It's all about what you expect from a game.
If you just wanna jump in for 1 or 2 rounds playing online per week looking for some fun shooting bazookas at the other worms' faces and listen to theri funny speeches, then the W:A rope is really overpowered, cause it just adds a lot of skill to the game. And since the rope is the most complex weapon of the whole game, you really need a lot of time to be fairly good at it and you need even more time to kick ass with the rope.
But if you want to play competitive games (maybe even for a league) where in the most cases the better player should win, then the rope is just fine as it is on W:A for the most popular default schemes: Intermediate and Elite.

[Komo]

About this whole "balance" stuff, I'll be blunt now since I already pointed out why the whole argument is invalid.

All the people who are happy with the current W:R rope are guys who weren't able to do sh*t with the W:A rope and thus lost their beloved default games to those who were skilled in rope usage. The fact that even the skilled guys can't use the W:R rope like they used it in W:A increases the chances for you non-ropers dramatically. That's your whole point from what I could gather from this thread, but your arguments are plain wrong.

True, but on the other hand it's vice-versa and ditto.

Like I said on TuS forums:

"It's not worse lol, it's just different to what you are used to...

Everyone's expectations were too high.

I personally think it is pretty damn cool, I think the graphics are better, I like how the fire actually has smoke to it and it looks real, I love the interactive backgrounds, nowadays newcomers to this francise don't want their 1st look at the game to be "I must become the best, everything must be so specific..."

For newcomers it's supposed to look modern and appealing, not the same old...

We have WA for all the roping, seeing as thats the one thing everyone hates the most about it, I really don't understand why people are complaining when they can just as easily play WA again lol, WR is totally different, it actually makes getting around on the rope more challenging, and I personally like that..."

Thats my 2 cents anyway...

And also, hasn't anyone ever considered that T17 DO realise that WA is pretty much perfected the way it is, with it's unique engine, and they want something COMPLETELY different? For something to be different things will be completely new/changed to make it worth all the time and effort...

[greyze]

No he hasn't, retrace your steps, you will find he is the defendant, and he is doing a damn good job of it.

Actually he is not. So far he has shot down mine and several other people's opinions claiming his "opinion" is correct while saying nothing to support it. A good example is that he thinks I don't play WA enough to have a say in this discussion, how the hell would he know? or anyone for that matter. And to reclarify, I have played this for several years (bar the past few months) and I know what I see every single time I logged into wormNET which was almost always rope games, for the sake of this discussion I recently reinstalled WA to see what is on wormNET once more, I saw several shoppers and 1 wxw, nothing else.

And the most important fact of all in this whole discussion, is that WR is a "DIFFERENT" game to WA and is not intended to emulate the old rope. Whether you like it or not it is a fact that the WA Rope was powerful (and no im not talking about noob skills etc) it was powerful to the point that it made other tactics and items available in the game, completely useless such as the teleport.
The current WR rope works, and does it's intended job which is to make it easier for a worm to menuver from one basic area to another,
:"not" to traverse the entire landscape in seconds,
:gain access to awkward or intended difficult spots which should only be done by the teleport,
: or make it easy for a utility item to plop worms while keeping your current turn and accomplishing the above.

[greyze]

True, but on the other hand it's vice-versa and ditto.

Like I said on TuS forums:

"It's not worse lol, it's just different to what you are used to...

Everyone's expectations were too high.

I personally think it is pretty damn cool, I think the graphics are better, I like how the fire actually has smoke to it and it looks real, I love the interactive backgrounds, nowadays newcomers to this francise don't want their 1st look at the game to be "I must become the best, everything must be so specific..."

For newcomers it's supposed to look modern and appealing, not the same old...

We have WA for all the roping, seeing as thats the one thing everyone hates the most about it, I really don't understand why people are complaining when they can just as easily play WA again lol, WR is totally different, it actually makes getting around on the rope more challenging, and I personally like that..."

Thats my 2 cents anyway...

And also, hasn't anyone ever considered that T17 DO realise that WA is pretty much perfected the way it is, with it's unique engine, and they want something COMPLETELY different? For something to be different things will be completely new/changed to make it worth all the time and effort...

See now thats something I completely agree on, yet you said that Nail made a compelling argument against exactly what I and you have just said.
I think im missing something here.

[Psy-UK]

Are you Psydome? That used to be the man at BnG?

If only. I'm rubbish at BnG. :P

A lie.
Works perfectly to me.

Then you and me must be playing a completely different game.

[DrMelon]

Ropers! Shoppers! WxW-ers! Lend me your ears!

I look at this rope as an opportunity, not a problem. Invent new styles of play using it. Invent new tricks! It's fresh ground to be explored.
The rope just needs practice. It's fully capable of ascending. It just takes a few more re-fires, rather than a quick pump and jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHeNT29TpD8

The game has only been out for a few days. Armageddon has been out for a decade. People just need time to develop new styles.
It may seem odd and difficult at first, but didn't the W:A rope feel the same way when you started all that time ago?

[greyze]

I look at this rope as an opportunity, not a problem. Invent new styles of play using it. Invent new tricks! It's fresh ground to be explored.
The rope just needs practice. It's fully capable of ascending. It just takes a few more re-fires, rather than a quick pump and jump.

win post!

/10char

[Komo]

Ok i'm going to break this down for you once and for all.


Actually he is not. So far he has shot down mine and several other people's opinions claiming his "opinion" is correct while saying nothing to support it.

Yes he is, he is defending in a professional manner by quoting EVERYTHING you say so that on it's own proves he is not ignoring you, 2nd, providing exceedingly vast and spot-on knowledge of the entire WA game which he OBVIOUSLY knows ALOT more than you do, and practically every WA player that has actually tried more than a few different schemes will agree with him.

A good example is that he thinks I don't play WA enough to have a say in this discussion, how the hell would he know? or anyone for that matter.

He never said enough about you don't play enough, what he is saying is you don't pay enough attention.

And to reclarify, I have played this for several years (bar the past few months) and I know what I see every single time I logged into wormNET which was almost always rope games, for the sake of this discussion I recently reinstalled WA to see what is on wormNET once more, I saw several shoppers and 1 wxw, nothing else.

You are just totally and utterly wrong on this, myself being one of the most active players on wormnet, I sit in #AG (where sh*t goes down) for more than 50 hours a week, I am not always in a game, in fact I am mostly talking to people, and even when I AM in a game, I am minimised, checking PM's, see who is hosting what (yes because I am interested, see if any my mates are playing clanners, or funners, or whatever...)

At certain times throughout the day, There are more rope schemes on than defaults/non rope schemes, however, when WNET is at it's peak-time, rope-based schemes are DRASTICALLY low compared to the other schemes, even more so since Worm Olympics started, most of wormnet (from what I see registered in the WO tournaments, over 600 players, maybe 700 now actually) are playing EVERY scheme imaginable and invented from the laid-back wormer, to the ridiculously competitive wormer.

You are SO wrong on this point it is of utter disbelieve that you have in fact played the game as much as you say, and if you do, you obviously don't pay clear attention, you must be seeing what you want to see, either that or you should have gone to specsavers...


And the most important fact of all in this whole discussion, is that WR is a "DIFFERENT" game to WA and is not intended to emulate the old rope.

I totally agree with you on that, I honestly 100% think you and Nail should just shut the **** up on this because EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion and the honest truth is neither of you are right or wrong on this, it's ONLY an opinion and nothing more.


Whether you like it or not it is a fact that the WA Rope was powerful (and no im not talking about noob skills etc) it was powerful to the point that it made other tactics and items available in the game, completely useless such as the teleport.

We know it's powerful, EVERY weapon is powerful if you know how to use them right, and it does NOT make teleport completely useless you have no idea whatsoever and I am starting to believe you haven't even witnessed it being used correctly and tactically let alone can even use it yourself, however it is in no way OVERPOWERED, here is some examples:

Elite: You have 1 worm (Team A), they have 2 worms (Team B), You can use turn advantage here if both there worms are far enough apart, let's say Team B has Worm 1 at 50hp, and worm 2 at 66hp, and your worm has 100hp, Team B have already used BOTH ropes, hoping for a chance of SS (Super Sheep) at the end of the match when SD (Sudden Death) comes, and, Team A has 1 rope left.

Team B (Worm 2) is on right side of map, just took his turn, nothing really happened, Worm 1 (of Team B) is closeby, but cannot reach Worm 2 in enough time to do good damage to that area because no rope left, meanwhile Team A is on the OTHER side of the map, He can't rope over because it's too risky to fly over, and nothing he can attach rope onto to extend over, seeing as he has 100hp, he can use a TELEPORT and pile Team A's Worm 2, now seeing as Team B's Worm 1 can't reach that position anyway the next turn, he can't teleport there because Team A can kill the 66hp worm with a dynomite he's saved, and hide, he can't be killed the next turn with 100hp left, and use his SS the following turn to win the game, all thanks to a teleport, which the Ninja Rope couldn't do.

Intermediate: From what I have seen, the same thing can apply because again you have limited ropes, although with everything else in the scheme, the rope plays an even smaller part, as well as an important part.


The current WR rope works, and does it's intended job which is to make it easier for a worm to menuver from one basic area to another,
:"not" to traverse the entire landscape in seconds,
:gain access to awkward or intended difficult spots which should only be done by the teleport,
: or make it easy for a utility item to plop worms while keeping your current turn and accomplishing the above.

You just contradicted yourself, how can you say it's easier, then immediately say something like ""not" to traverse the entire landscape in seconds." To me this sounds harder.

You cannot traverse ANY landspace in seconds because it takes time to get out your hide, attach to whatever is there, always random, using special manouveres which you have to learn, get to where you are trying to get to, AND make a shot that has to be PERFECT, at least where WA is considered because again, Elite is a perfect example of how much skill it takes to do this, what is the point in using teleport to get there, when the next turn you will be killed, THAT IS STUPID:

Most situations rope is used in an Elite takes an entire turn because of the distance and positions worms are hiding and whatever weapon for whatever situation you are trying, it's the weapon you use that makes rope powerful, not the rope itself, I wish you could understand that...

For example:

Rope+Dyno - Onto a mine, next to a barrel, a plop-shot, a double hit, to push a worm far away from yours so next turn it can't reach you with ease and would have to sacrifice one of their own to even have a chance of attacking you, heck i've even placed a dynomite onto an instant mine, that has flew across half a map to hit a player I didn't have enough time to reach with the rope although I needed a rope to be able to drop the dynomite because if I tried that without it, the mine would blow up on me.

Rope+Skunk - When you have a chance of reaching 2 players with the skunk that are far away but possibly at the risk of losing that worm, if you play the rest of the game correctly, and this even works, it's a perfect show of skill and knowledge/experience - Not overpowered rope.

Rope+Anything - Use your imagination, rope can be used to tactically do ALOT of other things except travel the whole map, you say it's overpowered, no, it's just there to provide extra tactics to the game, which make it so exciting and addictive.

If the rope was SO overpowered, ANYONE could do all this stuff, but the truth is, only people who have dedicated a RIDICULOUS amount of time practising can pull of these moves consistently.

Nails most frustrating point, and alot of other WA players, is that while WR is fun in it's own way, making the rope in W:R nowhere near as useful as WA, takes away ALOT of tactics, fun, and competition, not to mention the integrity of practically every scheme WR has chose as standard with the game...

Trust us, we know what we are talking about, we know the game better than the people who develop it, who do you think gives them the suggestions to perfect it? THE PLAYERS WITH THE IMAGINATION WHO TRY EVERYTHING POSSIBLE !

[Komo]

Ropers! Shoppers! WxW-ers! Lend me your ears!

The game has only been out for a few days. Armageddon has been out for a decade. People just need time to develop new styles.
It may seem odd and difficult at first, but didn't the W:A rope feel the same way when you started all that time ago?

Read my last post please, and hopefully you will understand, you just CAN'T develop new styles with WR's rope because it's too limited, it's fun yes, but restricted in the ways that actually make it worth using.

[Shroom!]

Actually he is not. So far he has shot down mine and several other people's opinions claiming his "opinion" is correct while saying nothing to support it. A good example is that he thinks I don't play WA enough to have a say in this discussion, how the hell would he know? or anyone for that matter. And to reclarify, I have played this for several years (bar the past few months) and I know what I see every single time I logged into wormNET which was almost always rope games, for the sake of this discussion I recently reinstalled WA to see what is on wormNET once more, I saw several shoppers and 1 wxw, nothing else.



I gurantee you that if you host a normal game yourself on WormNet instead of complaining there are none, it will fill up very quickly.

[Psy-UK]

Ropers! Shoppers! WxW-ers! Lend me your ears!

I look at this rope as an opportunity, not a problem. Invent new styles of play using it. Invent new tricks! It's fresh ground to be explored.
The rope just needs practice. It's fully capable of ascending. It just takes a few more re-fires, rather than a quick pump and jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHeNT29TpD8

The game has only been out for a few days. Armageddon has been out for a decade. People just need time to develop new styles.
It may seem odd and difficult at first, but didn't the W:A rope feel the same way when you started all that time ago?

If you have to stop to refire the rope then I'm afraid you can't do many tricks. All I've managed to do so far is a shadow.

[DrMelon]

Trust us, we know what we are talking about, we know the game better than the people who develop it.

Do you? Or do you just know a certain community who play in a certain style better than they do? And in any case, who said they were catering for you anyway? Did they explicitly say "Worms Reloaded is for the roper community of W:A."? No? Then why do you imagine yourself to be entitled to a gamemode that is merely a spinoff? And in any case, if you've spent so long practicing on this game, why play Reloaded? That's like practicing Starcraft and then playing Starcraft 2. They are different games. They do different things.

[DrMelon]

If you have to stop to refire the rope then I'm afraid you can't do many tricks. All I've managed to do so far is a shadow.

This is my point - you may have to invent new tricks instead of using old ones. Some quite plainly won't work as well (if at all) but I am certain there are plenty of new things to do with it.

[Komo]

Do you? Or do you just know a certain community who play in a certain style better than they do? And in any case, who said they were catering for you anyway? Did they explicitly say "Worms Reloaded is for the roper community of W:A."? No? Then why do you imagine yourself to be entitled to a gamemode that is merely a spinoff? And in any case, if you've spent so long practicing on this game, why play Reloaded? That's like practicing Starcraft and then playing Starcraft 2. They are different games. They do different things.

Well for starters, why do you think the most popular edition of worms is WA?

Why is it the ONLY edition of worms with most attention to successful updates and fixes with the most time and effort put into them is WA?

Why IS IT?!? That EVERYONE complaining about WR rope refers to WA?

And yet I continue, WHY !!!!!!! (lol) has T17 already took into account all the complaints about the rope, and are trying to fix it?

Are you seriously even bothered about this? Or are you just trying to annoy people?

"This is my point - you may have to invent new tricks instead of using old ones. Some quite plainly won't work as well (if at all) but I am certain there are plenty of new things to do with it."

And my point is, you can't, what tricks can you actually invent, with a rope that doesn't even allow you to invent anything useful because of it's limitations?

Oh and I can garauntee you, 100% that EVERY trick you can possibly try on WR has already been perfected on WA, you just can't do it on WR, nothing useful anyway.

[Draconis]

And yet I continue, WHY !!!!!!! (lol) has T17 already took into account all the complaints about the rope, and are trying to fix it?



They are? I didn't know this but it makes me sad.

[Komo]

They are? I didn't know this but it makes me sad.

This is only what i've read on these forums, I don't know 100%

But it definately looks like it.

I will be extremely surprised, and they will end up losing ALOT of players and profit probably, if they don't.

[Psy-UK]

This is my point - you may have to invent new tricks instead of using old ones. Some quite plainly won't work as well (if at all) but I am certain there are plenty of new things to do with it.

How? The rope has nowhere near the flexibility that the WA rope offered. There simply isn't any scope to invent new tricks.

[Komo]

How? The rope has nowhere near the flexibility that the WA rope offered. There simply isn't any scope to invent new tricks.

I can't shake your hand, but i'll say "Hiiie 5"

[Draconis]

This is only what i've read on these forums, I don't know 100%

But it definately looks like it.

I will be extremely surprised, and they will end up losing ALOT of players and profit probably, if they don't.

Oh well at least on Pro you only get two ninja ropes so as long as that stays as it is my online experience might not be ruined.

[Komo]

Oh well at least on Pro you only get two ninja ropes so as long as that stays as it is my online experience might not be ruined.

Actually, like I said in my other post, the gameplay is VASTLY improved with proper use of the rope, and actually being able to use it tactically, it's a part of the game, so why would you NOT want to learn it's full capabilities?

[lDarKl]

If you have to stop to refire the rope then I'm afraid you can't do many tricks. All I've managed to do so far is a shadow.

The shadow is the only trick that actually works with W:R's rope, but it's not very helpful because of the lower re-shooting angle.

Melon, everyone who knows how to use W:A's rope well can tell that W:R's rope can't be used to do anything but move from spot A to spot B, even with a lot of practise (which isn't needed anyway as it's only limited so much there's nothing "new" about it to explore).

It's still possible to rope around the map, but an experienced roper feels like a cripple using this new rope.. My point about the rope being sh*t is that it doesn't allow for style roping - it doesn't necessarily have to be like W:A's rope (Team17 managed to create a different but still nice rope once before when they moved from W2 to W:A). Just take a look at this (http://wormtube.worms2d.info/17/wasano_project) and compare it to what Melon posted, can't you see the difference in possibilities? And no, the W:R rope as it is will not allow for any kind of artistic roping, even with practise.

Everything the rope-people are asking for is to give them this kind of freedom also in the new game, even if it's optional to that horrible rope so you default guys (why am I saying you, my favourite scheme is Elite..) won't cry about people roping all over the map and put a dynamite on your head because they know how to use a rope to its maximum efficiency.

[Draconis]

Actually, like I said in my other post, the gameplay is VASTLY improved with proper use of the rope, and actually being able to use it tactically, it's a part of the game, so why would you NOT want to learn it's full capabilities?

Because if my Worms games were dependant on being good with the ninja rope it wouldn't be Worms anymore. Worms to me is about making great shots from a distance, forethought etc. It'd feel like a mod or something and I may as well stick with Worms United which as far as I know has no online community anymore and a terrible AI that often fails to finish a match.

Actually for some reason in the time I took to type that paragraph I suddenly stopped caring. I mean it'd be a shame to ruin the game (for me anyway) but hell, wouldn't be the first time.

[Komo]

That's it dark, after watching that zook shot in that clip, I am making a collaboration(spelt right?? lol) of all my best shots at BnG.

[Komo]

Because if my Worms games were dependant on being good with the ninja rope it wouldn't be Worms anymore. Worms to me is about making great shots from a distance, forethought etc. It'd feel like a mod or something and I may as well stick with Worms United which as far as I know has no online community anymore and a terrible AI that often fails to finish a match.

Actually for some reason in the time I took to type that paragraph I suddenly stopped caring. I mean it'd be a shame to ruin the game (for me anyway) but hell, wouldn't be the first time.

Why can't you see it...

It is NOT depentant on the rope, It never has been and never will be, you haven't even read my posts properly, I just know you haven't, you have flicked through it missing out crucial points, or you would have seen this:

"Most situations rope is used in an Elite takes an entire turn because of the distance and positions worms are hiding and whatever weapon for whatever situation you are trying, it's the weapon you use that makes rope powerful, not the rope itself, I wish you could understand that..."

I must add though, it is still possible to win Elites without even using ANY rope, if you are good enough,

The same goes for EVERY scheme, it's not how good you are with the rope, it's knowing what weapons do that makes it good.

How can you not want to learn one of the most exciting things in the game, you don't even have to get perfect with the rope, just good enough to enjoy these extra perks of the game...

I have beat people MUCH FASTER than me at rope, because I have better knowledge of what to do with weapons rather than the rope.

The rope is a godsend to worms, it makes so much possible, so much fun, so much entertainment, so many laughs, gives you ALOT of pride when you can do it right.

The same thing goes to mastering EVERY weapon.

And if you want to get the most out of Worms, like you say you do, you would realise this, and start singing along...

[yakuza]

I love how rope haters, (also known as people who can't rope) come up with all sorts of arguments to justify a game were the rope offers no learning curve and no depth gameplay. This way, they can ignore learning it alltogether and still be competitive.

Let's face it, most of the people who hate the rope with passion really have very little knowledge to go with their claims other than, "I hate shoppers, ropers, roperaces and all that crap that has made Worms fade away from ground schemes" - well, I'd like to see you try to take on a good Intermediate / Elite player without being able to use the rope properly, and once you do, I wouldn't be able to imagine you not realizing just how much depth, strategy, tactics, creativity and quality match moments it offers.



I will now further analyze why people who can't rope cannot be right:

after making my post, I read a bit of the thread, and it really makes me furious in my anus when people hate on the rope for reasons that have no objetivity whatsoever, weak minded people, who are being taken on by surprise that after having played against their 6 year old brother, with lack of smarts, beating him game after another with the super banana bomb, they gather the necesseray self security to take it on to wormnet. They go there, with their egos full of being able to drop a banana and fly away with a jetpack, and once they're there, in wormnet, and join a game, which happens to be a shoper or a roper, they get destroyed, and they cry, and they go and slap their little 6 year old special brother, and cry some more. In my days, when this happened, you had an urge to learn and compete, because it was something new and exciting, like sex for many people in this thread, or roping... and you started learning, and it was fun, it was fun because there was a learning curve. Because you could compare your skills to others, because there was a difference between practicing and not practicing, because the rope, is an amazing gameplay feature. Now, this clearly doesn't happen anymore, what people do now, is, after crying, they go on about hating the rope for ever, because they took it personal, they think it's unfair they lost, their brain, in full rage, automaticaly starts generating pseudo-arguments, whose only purpose is to auto-convince the person in question.

I believe, the cancer of this world is exactly this, the lack of open mindeness with which people apporach the rope. The lack of self steem people have, and their most inmediate thoughts "****ing lame, I would never be able to do that with the rope", "oh what the **** this is not worms these guys are hacking".

Closing thoughts, dear noobs who can't rope: the rope is not for everyone and that's what she said. Words of a lesbian. Now ask yourself, are you a roper, or a lesbian. Choice is yours.

[Komo]

Lol I seen that last part yakuza :P

[ThorxNLF]

This is unbelievable.

I still love normal schemes, but how can you just ignore a whole community of ropers when we're just saying: "ROPING SHOULD BE AN OPTION, NOT A LIMITATION" (real roping)

Don't speak like we're just a bunch of unsatisfied mmorons. Rope was one of the best tools ever created in worms for a lot of people. As much as you enjoy bazooka and grenade, a massive group of players enjoy roping.

WR isn't a bad game, but just because you're normal-scheme oriented, it doesn't mean you have to spit on the rest of the worms community. You're not disappointed, we are. Then stop being an egotistic idiot, this is a whole new 2D worms game, 10 years after, not masterbation.

[Akuryou13]

This is my point - you may have to invent new tricks instead of using old ones. Some quite plainly won't work as well (if at all) but I am certain there are plenty of new things to do with it.you're half right and half wrong. the lack of momentum carrying over is what's stopped you from doing your tricks in that video. you could've made that jump where you had to stop, if only the rope would allow you to continue to fly with the speed you'd built up from before.

I say the momentum nonsense needs to be fixed. once that's done, THEN we can play with the rope as before. we'll need to invent new stuff like you said, but it should be perfectly viable.

[lDarKl]

you're half right and half wrong. the lack of momentum carrying over is what's stopped you from doing your tricks in that video. you could've made that jump where you had to stop, if only the rope would allow you to continue to fly with the speed you'd built up from before.

I say the momentum nonsense needs to be fixed. once that's done, THEN we can play with the rope as before. we'll need to invent new stuff like you said, but it should be perfectly viable.

QFT. Thank you.

[DrMelon]

I say the momentum nonsense needs to be fixed. once that's done, THEN we can play with the rope as before. we'll need to invent new stuff like you said, but it should be perfectly viable.

I can live with this, certainly. I like the overall heavier feel of the rope, and agree that the momentum conserved is indeed lower than it should be.


I do find myself smirking at some of the various accusations in this thread though.

So far people think:

I can't use the rope.
I hate the rope.
I hate people who use the rope.
I am an egotistic idiot.

When really, I'm just sick of people bawling that the rope is different.

[Orkel]

The rope is now balanced instead of the get-everywhere-you-want overpowered **** that it was in the previous games. They better keep it this way.

[yakuza]

When really, I'm just sick of people bawling that the rope is different.
[/LIST]

I think you try too had to argue on the philosophical plane.

Just because something is different it doesn't make it a worthy alternative.

And you do hate people who use the rope, admit it. Rope hater.

[Draconis]

Why can't you see it...

It is NOT depentant on the rope, It never has been and never will be, you haven't even read my posts properly, I just know you haven't, you have flicked through it missing out crucial points, or you would have seen this:

"Most situations rope is used in an Elite takes an entire turn because of the distance and positions worms are hiding and whatever weapon for whatever situation you are trying, it's the weapon you use that makes rope powerful, not the rope itself, I wish you could understand that..."

I must add though, it is still possible to win Elites without even using ANY rope, if you are good enough,

The same goes for EVERY scheme, it's not how good you are with the rope, it's knowing what weapons do that makes it good.

How can you not want to learn one of the most exciting things in the game, you don't even have to get perfect with the rope, just good enough to enjoy these extra perks of the game...

I have beat people MUCH FASTER than me at rope, because I have better knowledge of what to do with weapons rather than the rope.

The rope is a godsend to worms, it makes so much possible, so much fun, so much entertainment, so many laughs, gives you ALOT of pride when you can do it right.

The same thing goes to mastering EVERY weapon.

And if you want to get the most out of Worms, like you say you do, you would realise this, and start singing along...

Okay forget the word "dependant" and replace it with "overpowered" then. In my personal opinion, the kind of rope you guys want is completely unnecessary with so many other weapons and utilities in Worms. I still think it should be an option so that every taste is catered for. Ultimately though we'll just have to wait and see what Team17 will do. Either one of us will be disappointed or we'll both be happy.

As for the guy who posted after you, is it any coincidence that most of these "ropers" have such an attitude? I'm sick of you lot calling people who don't care about roping "noobs" or implying they aren't real Worms fans. I've been playing Worms since the very first release back in 1994 so I'm definately no "noob" and I still don't give a damn about roping and guess what, you couldn't do your tricks in the original Worms either just like you apparently can't now in Worms Reloaded. You could in Armageddon but that's that. I can't believe some even have the arrogance to claim that they know Worms better than Team17 who created the damn series. I feel sorry for Team17, it's the likes of Creative Assembly who deserve a fanbase like this.

[CakeDoer]

this (http://wormtube.worms2d.info/17/wasano_project)

Boy that s*** is f***ing awesome.

Also, Nail made a point - the rope is not overpowered in the Intermediate, Elite and Pro schemes in Armageddon, because you have a limited supply of it. Though, IMO, Intermediate could do better with 4 or 3 ammo.

Also, we are not asking for the rope to be as powerful as it was in WA in the Default and Pro schemes, but to be as powerful as it it was in WA in the schemes in which it is needed to be powerful (i.e. Shopper, Rope Race and Roper, amongst others).

Maybe it could be done like this - you know WA's Weapon Power adjuster, right? Well, the rope could have its fifth star have infinite swings and proper momentum registering, like in WA. That is, if a proper scheme editor is introduced in Reloaded.

[yakuza]

As for the guy who posted after you, is it any coincidence that most of these "ropers" have such an attitude?

I'm not a roper DUDE, I'm an ALLLLLLLLL----AROUNDER.

AWESOME.

[Komo]

Okay forget the word "dependant" and replace it with "overpowered" then. In my personal opinion, the kind of rope you guys want is completely unnecessary with so many other weapons and utilities in Worms. I still think it should be an option so that every taste is catered for. Ultimately though we'll just have to wait and see what Team17 will do. Either one of us will be disappointed or we'll both be happy.

As for the guy who posted after you, is it any coincidence that most of these "ropers" have such an attitude? I'm sick of you lot calling people who don't care about roping "noobs" or implying they aren't real Worms fans. I've been playing Worms since the very first release back in 1994 so I'm definately no "noob" and I still don't give a damn about roping and guess what, you couldn't do your tricks in the original Worms either just like you apparently can't now in Worms Reloaded. You could in Armageddon but that's that.

We have already gave you enough PROOF, never mind opinion that rope is NOT overpowered, if you can't see this, then I don't care anymore, it's YOUR LOSS, not mine.

I never said you were a noob, either way, whether you are good at the game or bad, goes to show you do not respect it's entirety, you simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND that the ninja rope is in fact, NOT overpowered, you cannot extended it all the way across a map, you have to detach & attach and it takes alot of practise, and yes, I mean ALOT, to master the arrow keys so that you can even use this weapon as an advantage, and even in schemes like Elite/Intermediate, it doesn't matter HOW GOOD you are with the rope, you will STILL lose against a player with more experience with everything else, so if YOU are so good, then you should beat someone at these schemes without using ninja rope, or without using it perfectly.


I can't believe some even have the arrogance to claim that they know Worms better than Team17 who created the damn series. I feel sorry for Team17, it's the likes of Creative Assembly who deserve a fanbase like this.

It's a fact, they program, we play, it's a known fact the players of practically EVERY game EVER made, could whoop the programmers butt hands down, they don't have the time to spend playing it as much as the people who get as addicted as we do, they mostly just test it, in fact, quite alot of the time, they hardly even play it at all... I know for a fact I could beat anyone on the T17 staff at BnG, and this is only because I have spent COUNTLESS hours practising, I have done more or less every type of possible shot, or combination of shot through some luck and mostly skill/determination.

They know more about technical issues, obviously, they fix things, they made the game and for that we obviously REALLY respect them, but when it comes down to playing games, it's obvious it's the players that are better, and know the game better, well cuz, DUH !!!! THEY ARE THE ONES PLAYING IT MOST !


I have personally said I REALLY like WR and I think it's really cool, and that I don't care if the rope changes for what we would think, is better, all I am trying to point out, is that it is inferior, and that your opinion of WA rope being overpowered is pathetic, unjustified and ignorant just because you can't use it properly or to it's full potential, or even understand how tactical and extremely valuable it is to the game, THAT is what is bringing so much attention, no one cares if you can rope good or not, how long you have been playing, it's the fact you are so ignorant as to what we have been blessed with here.

Like I said before, it's YOUR loss, not ours, so whatever lol.

[Komo]

Also, Nail made a point - the rope is not overpowered in the Intermediate, Elite and Pro schemes in Armageddon, because you have a limited supply of it. Though, IMO, Intermediate could do better with 4 or 3 ammo.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that me?

[Komo]

** Sorry for 3 posts in a row **

Also, I am starting to notice other things in the game are very limited, not just rope, read this page, of this thread for an example on Grenade:

http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41888&page=4

[NAiL]

Okay forget the word "dependant" and replace it with "overpowered" then. In my personal opinion, the kind of rope you guys want is completely unnecessary with so many other weapons and utilities in Worms. I still think it should be an option so that every taste is catered for. Ultimately though we'll just have to wait and see what Team17 will do. Either one of us will be disappointed or we'll both be happy.

This is the entire thing you are wrong about. Why do I need to repeat the same things over and over again.

THE ROPE IS NOT OVERPOWERED.

The rope is only over powered in roping schemes, which is to be expected.
In default schemes the rope is limited in its power and ammunition. In many other schemes, the ninja rope isnt even used at all. Having 5 ninja ropes with 2 shots per rope in a game of Intermediate is very balanced. As any expereinced intermediate or elite player will tell you, ALL of the weapons and utilitites are used when they are MOST EFFECTIVE. Any regular Intermediate player will tell you the same as I have.

www.normalnonoobs.com - This is an OPEN INTERMEDIATE LEAGUE, anyone can play in this league. This isnt a league only for NNN members as some of you have wrongly claimed.

If you actually take 5 minutes to watch how Intermediate is played on a high level, you'll see that in most games all of the utilities will be used at some point. The ropes will be used when most effective, the jetpack will be needed when is most effective and the teleports will be used when is most effective. Just as EVERY utility and weapon will be used when and if its required. To say that the ninja rope abloishes the need for any other from of strategy or method of attack, is wrong.
If you played regular games with default players online, you'd know this.

To calrify once more, having the ninja rope in default schemes does not mean that there is no need to use any other utilities, this is a WRONG thing to say. The only schemes in which the ninja rope is "over powered" are roping schemes, which is to be expected.



As for the guy who posted after you, is it any coincidence that most of these "ropers" have such an attitude? I'm sick of you lot calling people who don't care about roping "noobs" or implying they aren't real Worms fans. I've been playing Worms since the very first release back in 1994 so I'm definately no "noob" and I still don't give a damn about roping.

Look, you've just displayed your ignorance once more, why are you calling us "ropers"?

The people who have posted here in relation to what has been said about the ninja rope being "over powered" or unfair, DarK, Komo, KRD, yakuza and myself are ALL ROUNDERS. Yes we enjoy roping schemes, but we also enjoy many other forms of worming just as much. The fact that you, and people like you call us "ropers" only goes to show how little knowledge you actually have about the community in general.



I've been playing Worms since the very first release back in 1994 so I'm definately no "noob" and I still don't give a damn about roping and guess what, you couldn't do your tricks in the original Worms either just like you apparently can't now in Worms Reloaded. You could in Armageddon but that's that. I can't believe some even have the arrogance to claim that they know Worms better than Team17 who created the damn series. I feel sorry for Team17, it's the likes of Creative Assembly who deserve a fanbase like this.

My first point is this, Worms 1 is not still actively played by thousands of players, Worms Armageddon is, over 10 years after it came out. CS and DC along with help from the community we have have helped take this game beyond anything the developers dreamed of. WA stands the test of time for a reason, its the best Worms game there is, fact.

We do not care about Reloaded, we will always have WA. We didnt have high expectations seeing as most of us are aware of the rapid dumbing down of the series ever since WA. We are however, dissapointed with Team17 for ignoring the requests of players of their most played and most popular game. It seems silly, to want to not try and please everyone, to not want improve on the winning formula as has been said before. As dedicated fans of the series we are well within our right to express dissapointment with the game. As ive said many times already, the roping issues are the tip of the iceberg. Check all the complaints thread on this forum, there are a good deal of them.

See what Etho has said:

Don't misunderstand me or those who share the same view as me. We didn't want this game to be Worms Armageddon... we wanted it to be BETTER than Worms Armageddon. We are disappointed because in 10 years of time, with 10 years of community feedback, with 10 years of trial and error, with 10 years of improvements in computer technology... Team17 have finally produced a supposed sequel to W:A, and it is not even as good.

Blizzard used its 10 years to produce a very nice sequel while Team17 was busy cashing in on its Worms remakes and console ports.

As ive already said, I am NOT saying that WR won't be an enjoyable game. 90% of the posts ive made in this thread have been about misconceptions people have with WA, not WR.

The other fact of the matter is that there are more people playing default and non roping schemes on WA, than there are on all of the other Worms games combined. Yes, WA is the home for ropers, but WA is also the home for both classic and default Worms players, and players who like all forms of schemes.

[Komo]

It's true, i'm considered more of an all-rounder these days, although I started out purely roping up until about 2004, and trust me, I was GOOD lol, all i've ever done since about 2004 is BnG.

My best scheme, in compasarion to others, by miles, is BnG, this doesn't even use rope at all lol, but I still respect and love rope and I am good at it :)

[MonkeyforaHead]

All the people who are happy with the current W:R rope are guys who weren't able to do sh*t with the W:A rope and thus lost their beloved default games to those who were skilled in rope usage. The fact that even the skilled guys can't use the W:R rope like they used it in W:A increases the chances for you non-ropers dramatically.

Sounds more to me like you're upset that you can't BnG for crap now that you don't have quite so much freedom to ninja around the landscape and drop dynamite on everyone.

No seriously that argument is stupid and you're stupid. There are some valid arguments against the current rope but that is not one of them.

[Draconis]

Why did I use the term ropers? Simply because it's a simple way to categorise people unhappy with the Worms: Reloaded ninja rope and I used quotation marks on the word to let people know thats what it was.

There's nothing more to say here. The only reason I mentioned Worms 1 was to respond to the accusation that I and others are somehow not "true fans" or are new to the series. While you "ropers" have called yourselves the "true fans" the fact is you aren't so much Worms fans but rather Worms Armageddon fanboys and arguing with fanboys is always pointless (and I include myself when I'm defending Blood or some other MASTERPIECE :p). You say all these things about Armageddon and fine, I believe you and accept it for what its worth. Like you say the "ropers" are actually all rounders who just appreciate the abilities of the Worms: Armageddon rope and okay fine, but then it's still a mystery to me why the state of the ninja rope is such a massive deal breaker for you in a game that has been out for a matter of days and is otherwise perfectly playable despite yes, having other issues. I mean I hope Team17 realise that while it appears by looking at these forums that the Worms community largely hates the game, after the release of any game ever this is always the case. There is always a vocal minority who are heard more than any other because most other people are busy enjoying the game. I saw a comment from a Team17 member of staff on the Steam forums which asked "did anyone actually like the game" which means that either they really think that the response on the forums is reflective of a general consensus or that particular guy was just playing politics or having a laugh. I would imagine that Team17 are ultimately more concerned about the scores received from mainstream publications (rightly or wrongly) because after all thats the kind of promotion thats going to bring in the cash and in that respect Worms: Reloaded is doing very well indeed.

We don't really disagree on anything. You want to defend Worms: Armageddon and its fans and compare Worms: Reloaded negatively to it and that's fine because I've got nothing invested in Worms: Armageddon either way. I just enjoy Worms: Reloaded. I myself will happily talk all day about how Blood II: The Chosen, Seven Kingdoms: Conquest, Soldier of Fortune: Payback, Empire: Total War and Warlords IV: Heroes of Etheria are such awful additions to their respective series that certain offices need burning so I empathise with your frustration in that sense, just not in this particular case. Plus, we both agree that the "ropers" should be catered to one way or another.

I registered on this forum a few months back to see if anyone knew what the problem with Worms World Party was on XP. I eventually figured out that it was certain versions of the NVIDIA drivers causing my issue. When Worms Reloaded was approaching release I began to frequent here more often for the sake of my upcoming review and then as you can tell I got sucked into the debates around here, most of them stemming from misunderstandings of some sort. So unless someone says something particularly stinging to my ego I'm retiring from this discussion now because to be honest the only thing ruining my enjoyment of Worms: Reloaded is reading these forums, like the recent revelation that "rank" is pretty much meaningless. I prefered believing I was awesome to get so far up the ladder.

To sum up my position, ropers should be catered for but not in a way that would unbalance the game for people who just want to have fun without having to earn a degree in roping to have a chance. I think that's as fair a statement as I can make without abandoning my position.

EDIT: Sorry I didn't bother quoting anyone here but it was in response to NAiL.

[Komo]

Why did I use the term ropers? Simply because it's a simple way to categorise people unhappy with the Worms: Reloaded ninja rope and I used quotation marks on the word to let people know thats what it was.

There's nothing more to say here. The only reason I mentioned Worms 1 was to respond to the accusation that I and others are somehow not "true fans" or are new to the series. While you "ropers" have called yourselves the "true fans" the fact is you aren't so much Worms fans but rather [I]Worms Armageddon fanboys

There you go doing it again, we are NOT JUST ROPERS ! We are ALL ROUNDERS, get it right...

And I consider myself more of a BnG'r than anything...

[Draconis]

There you go doing it again, we are NOT JUST ROPERS ! We are ALL ROUNDERS, get it right...

And I consider myself more of a BnG'r than anything...

...

In that very passage you quoted I explained why I used the term and why I used it with quotation marks. A basic grasp of the English language will probably help your blood pressure level.

[TheReaper]

Sounds more to me like you're upset that you can't BnG for crap now that you don't have quite so much freedom to ninja around the landscape and drop dynamite on everyone.

No seriously that argument is stupid and you're stupid. There are some valid arguments against the current rope but that is not one of them.

Sorry but that post made my head hurt :mad:

Nail speaks so much truth his last post just now summed it right up.

[MonkeyforaHead]

Sorry but that post made my head hurt :mad:

Nail speaks so much truth his last post just now summed it right up.

Hey, as long as we're all flinging around inflammatory accusations I didn't want to feel left out.

For clarification, I was good enough at the rope to compete in shoppers (and hell, even flyshoppers). I could make the ninja rope training stage last indefinitely when I wanted to. I somewhat ticked off people who were worse with the rope whenever I'd use it in a traditional match. (I couldn't help it, thing may have been overpowered for regular play but it was too much fun.) I am very happy with the less powerful rope in W:R. It finally feels balanced to me. I fully admit that it probably sucks like hell for people who want to play shoppers and rope races, but as far as its use in regular play goes, I think they hit a sweet spot.

So even if I was misinterpreting DarK's reasoning on the matter, his argument was still inflammatory and stupid. "increases the chances for you non-ropers dramatically"? All that says to me is that he needs to learn how to better use things besides the rope.

[Komo]

...

In that very passage you quoted I explained why I used the term and why I used it with quotation marks. A basic grasp of the English language will probably help your blood pressure level.

I love it when someone tries to correct your grammer yet get it wrong, it makes them look even worse, the fact that you used the quotation marks emphasizes the fact you are branding us ropers, actually.

And yet you are not noticing the fact that if this is truly what you meant when you said this:

"Why did I use the term ropers? Simply because it's a simple way to categorise people unhappy with the Worms: Reloaded ninja rope and I used quotation marks on the word to let people know thats what it was."

You could easily say "All rounders that think Rope is important and use it alot"

But I guess you are not clever enough to think of that huh?

[Thurbo]

About this whole "balance" stuff, I'll be blunt now since I already pointed out why the whole argument is invalid.

All the people who are happy with the current W:R rope are guys who weren't able to do sh*t with the W:A rope and thus lost their beloved default games to those who were skilled in rope usage. The fact that even the skilled guys can't use the W:R rope like they used it in W:A increases the chances for you non-ropers dramatically. That's your whole point from what I could gather from this thread, but your arguments are plain wrong.

Dude, I've been quite a good roper and loved playing rope races, especially tower maps.

I'm also used to the current WR rope after practising a little. Not a problem at all. I can say that it is way more balanced. I like WR because it's apparently a very good strategy/action game right now. If I want to play rope races I simply play Worms Armageddon - What's the problem? It's still got a big community hasn't it?

However - since I WAS able to take out anyone who wasn't used to the rope in WA, I'm aware of the fact it was overpowered - I've always had this god-like feeling, as in schemes like intermediate which contained about 5 ropes (IIRC), everybody who sucked at roping could've given up immidiately. They had not a chance facing pro-ropers. Considering WA was originally meant to be a strategy game rather than a turn-based racing game, I don't think it was on the perfect at all.

[Komo]

However - since I WAS able to take out anyone who wasn't used to the rope in WA, I'm aware of the fact it was overpowered - I've always had this god-like feeling, as in schemes like intermediate which contained about 5 ropes (IIRC), everybody who sucked at roping could've given up immidiately. They had not a chance facing pro-ropers. Considering WA was originally meant to be a strategy game rather than a turn-based racing game, I don't think it was on the perfect at all.


This is a totally unfair example and anyone should know that, taking into consideration it's the same with EVERY game you have to practise it to be good at it, the simple fact stands that if you want to be good, you have to practise in order for this to happen, everyone has the opportunity to learn rope at no extra cost, so it's there own fault for not being open-minded enough to do so.

Stop using excuses, everything about the rope on WA is extremely fair, PERIOD.

[Thurbo]

That's not the point.

The point is: there are - like you WA lovers like to post here a lot - even more weapons/tools than in Reloaded, about 60. But ONLY ONE SINGLE BLOODY TOOL needs to be practised to be an absolute pro in that game, and that's the rope. Do you think this is a good way for a game to work? This is what we call "unbalanced", if you are a good strategist and good at aiming but still constantly lose against people who trained using the rope.

[Komo]

That's not the point.

The point is: there are - like you WA lovers like to post here a lot - even more weapons/tools than in Reloaded, about 60. But ONLY ONE SINGLE BLOODY TOOL needs to be practised to be an absolute pro in that game, and that's the rope. Do you think this is a good way for a game to work? This is what we call "unbalanced", if you are a good strategist and good at aiming but still constantly lose against people who trained using the rope.

IT IS THE POINT !

And stop saying only one tool needs to be practised to be absolute pro ! We have already told you time and time and time and time again over and over and over YOU NEED TO BE GOOD AT EVERYTHING FOR THE ROPE TO EVEN BE USEFUL !!!

You are seriously just being stupid and stubborn now.

You have NO idea what balance is, because you can't even realise the meaning of "all-round" "experienced" "balance".

Honestly man, you are just posting to annoy people, you have no valid arguement WHATSOEVER, except WR is fun, because it is still fun, everything else you say, is disrespectful and unvalid without proper reasoning or knowledge.

And to prove it, we could play ANY scheme WITHOUT rope, and you would still get owned, because we have superior knowledge of everything else as well.

[Draconis]

I love it when someone tries to correct your grammer yet get it wrong, it makes them look even worse, the fact that you used the quotation marks emphasizes the fact you are branding us ropers, actually.

And yet you are not noticing the fact that if this is truly what you meant when you said this:

"Why did I use the term ropers? Simply because it's a simple way to categorise people unhappy with the Worms: Reloaded ninja rope and I used quotation marks on the word to let people know thats what it was."

You could easily say "All rounders that think Rope is important and use it alot"

But I guess you are not clever enough to think of that huh?

Oh. My. God. Are you being serious?

Okay I'll bother to give you one lesson and in simple language. When someone uses quotation marks around a word or a term in a sentence the reason is that it is intended to be understood as a word or term that others use to put it simply. The quotation marks are basically there to say, "as they are known or have been called" and they are often used to specifically seperate the writer from the word usage. For example someone writing an essay on racism will put racial slurs in quotation marks. If they were to write it straight without quotation marks, they would be using the racial slurs themselves.

Why do people use this technique instead of writing laborious sentences everytime like you suggest? The answer is in the question.

[Komo]

Oh. My. God. Are you being serious?

Okay I'll bother to give you one lesson and in simple language. When someone uses quotation marks around a word or a term in a sentence the reason is that it is intended to be understood as a word or term that others use to put it simply. The quotation marks are basically there to say, "as they are known or have been called" and they are often used to specifically seperate the writer from the word usage. For example someone writing an essay on racism will put racial slurs in quotation marks. If they were to write it straight without quotation marks, they would be using the racial slurs themselves.

Why do people use this technique instead of writing laborious sentences everytime like you suggest? The answer is in the question.

Why do you think we have Quote on basically every forum in the world then? Because you are specifically calling someone on something.

And even reading what you just said, you just proved yourself wrong with your OWN words, and if you can't see that, then haha at you..

[Thurbo]

IT IS THE POINT !

And stop saying only one tool needs to be practised to be absolute pro ! We have already told you time and time and time and time again over and over and over YOU NEED TO BE GOOD AT EVERYTHING FOR THE ROPE TO EVEN BE USEFUL !!!

You are seriously just being stupid and stubborn now.

You have NO idea what balance is, because you can't even realise the meaning of "all-round" "experienced" "balance".

Honestly man, you are just posting to annoy people, you have no valid arguement WHATSOEVER, except WR is fun, because it is still fun, everything else you say, is disrespectful and unvalid without proper reasoning or knowledge.

And to prove it, we could play ANY scheme WITHOUT rope, and you would still get owned, because we have superior knowledge of everything else as well.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2427/lolxc.png

[Komo]

Another thing, even if you said, that it is YOUR opinion and that YOU personally THINK the rope is overpowered I would back off, and respect your opinion, instead of trying to execute a proven fact that it is, when most people who actually use the rope to it's maximum capability disagrees with you?

[Komo]

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2427/lolxc.png

Yes, hang your head in shame.

[Draconis]

Why do you think we have Quote on basically every forum in the world then? Because you are specifically calling someone on something.

And even reading what you just said, you just proved yourself wrong with your OWN words, and if you can't see that, then haha at you..

This is comedy gold.

The quote function on internet forums is quite different from how quotation marks are used in the above context. The forum quote function is there to clearly indicate that you are responding to specific points. To use quotation marks around a single word or a term in a sentence is to reference an external usage typically for the sake of convienience. To not do so will result in long and ponderous sentences in almost every lengthy piece of writing ever.

[Komo]

This is comedy gold.

The quote function on internet forums is quite different from how quotation marks are used in the above context. The forum quote function is there to clearly indicate that you are responding to specific points. To use quotation marks around a single word or a term in a sentence is to reference an external usage typically for the sake of convienience. To not do so will result in long and ponderous sentences in almost every lengthy piece of writing ever.

Or, you could just admit you were wrong in the 1st place, and admit you branded us ropers, and then quickly tried to make up an excuse when you realised you were wrong, or still thought you were right but had to come up with some excuse to make it look like you were, when you clearly were not, the proof is there.

And the fact you used the quote "ropers" still inplies that we are all "ropers".

I hope you can see me using your quote, and mine, in the same way as you did, makes you realise how you are wrong.

And the last nail to the coffin, there ARE "ropers" but not the people you have been referring to.

[Thurbo]

The friggin point is that you idiot could simply play WORMS ARMAGEDDON instead of MOANING about a game which wasn't even developed to be a stupid rope racing game! I don't even get what you are actually complaining about. As you are obviously such a successful WA player, I assume you got WA - so there you go, a game that you can perfectly go playing now! We don't hold you back! Just the hell delete WR if you dislike it so much because of a tool that doesn't work exactly as in a game made ten years ago! If you think WA is still the perfect Worms experience - why are you still here?!

[Komo]

The friggin point is that you idiot could simply play WORMS ARMAGEDDON instead of MOANING about a game which wasn't even developed to be a stupid rope racing game! I don't even get what you are actually complaining about. As you are obviously such a successful WA player, I assume you got WA - so there you go, a game that you can perfectly go playing now! We don't hold you back! Just the hell delete WR if you dislike it so much because of a tool that doesn't work exactly as in a game made ten years ago! If you think WA is still the perfect Worms experience - why are you still here?!

Again, I already said, probably about 7 times now, probably more, that I like WR, it is different to me, I have never said they should make WR like WA, that would be pointless.

So that is not the point...

I am personally complaining that people are branding us ropers, saying rope is overpowered, and that they don't know how to use it right.

I also feel you have every right to defend WR, I personally would like you guys to put in your own suggestions without any WA players helping, so you can make it your own thing.

But you do NOT have a right to brand us such things without knowing what we really are, neither do you have the right to say things like WA rope is overpowered as a factual statement rather than an opinion.

[Komo]

Actually, i'll put in a suggestion, this is if you have WA by the way and can play it online, with recent patch updates.

Why don't you come onto WA, and see for yourself what you can do with and without the rope, and knowledge of everything else, I will ask some of the best players to arrange some games so you can spectate just to show you some of this stuff, IF you are interested.

EDIT: Oh, and if we do this, you can see for yourself the points we are trying to make.

[Draconis]

Or, you could just admit you were wrong in the 1st place, and admit you branded us ropers, and then quickly tried to make up an excuse when you realised you were wrong, or still thought you were right but had to come up with some excuse to make it look like you were, when you clearly aren't, the proof is there.

And the fact you used the quotes "ropers" still inplies that we are "ropers".

I hope you can see me using your quote, and mine, in the same way as you did, makes you realise how you are wrong.

I don't believe this. I mean I know the state of education is rubbish in the modern day but I never imagined anything like this. So according to your logic, when the person I mentioned earlier was writing the essay about racism, when they wrote racial slurs in quotation marks it meant that they share the opinion... In that case the author of just about every critical essay ever written contradicts themselves a million times over. To quote something or to reference a term (by using quotation marks), is not to agree with it. If say, an archaologist is writing about the state of the science in the early twentieth century and he writes something like, 'Scientists at the time actually mistook these dinosaur fossils for very large birds. Well these "birds" were ferocious hunters', does that mean the writer is implying that they are in fact birds? No, of course not.

I really don't know what else to say on this matter. It's like someone saying that water is dry or something. I mean, if you think that using quotation marks around a word in a sentence means you yourself hold that opinion... then what the hell do you think it means when someone doesn't use quotation marks? That they don't mean it? What do you think that quotation marks when you're not responding to someone mean? Don't answer those, they're rhetorical questions. For the sake of the world.

I also like how you talk as if I care if I call you "ropers" or not. Like I care if I offend you. Trust me, I don't.

[Komo]

I also like how you talk as if I care if I call you "ropers" or not. Like I care if I offend you. Trust me, I don't.

Then you are admitting you did.

Case closed.

And trust me you couldn't offend me if you tried, you are only human ;)

[Draconis]

Then you are admitting you did.

Case closed.

And trust me you couldn't offend me if you tried, you are only human ;)

You are either a very, very stupid person or a wonderful troll.

[Komo]

You are either a very, very stupid person or a wonderful troll.

I provide facts for the opinions and facts that I am providing, and do not change my excuse EVERY time, desperately trying to win an arguement you lost before we even replied through common sense, and then denying it happened in the 1st place.

You, sir, are the "very, very stupid person or a wonderful troll."

You like the fact I double quoted that?, it's ok to love my genius ;)

Don't be shy.

[Draconis]

I provide facts for the opinions and facts that I am providing, and do not change my excuse EVERY time, desperately trying to win an arguement you lost before we even replied through common sense, and then denying it happened in the 1st place.

You, sir, are the

You like the fact I double quoted that?, it's ok to love my genius ;)

Don't be shy.

I had hope for the world less than an hour ago :(

[Komo]

I had hope for the world less than an hour ago :(

And yet there you are, running away from the debate again, changing the subject, proving my point yet even further, coming out with comments that meet your own demise and not mine haha...

[Draconis]

And yet there you are, running away from the debate again, changing the subject, proving my point yet even further, coming out with comments that meet your own demise and not mine haha...

What was the debate again? You not understanding the English language despite apparently being from the UK? Oh yeah :(

[Komo]

What was the debate again? You not understanding the English language despite apparently being from the UK? Oh yeah :(

No, you forced this off-topic debate yourself by using terms and quotes that were not factual.

We can get back onto the original debate at hand? Or have you gave up yet?

[hundreds]

Someone should just close this.

[Komo]

Someone should just close this.

I think you are right :)

[Draconis]

No, you forced this off-topic debate yourself by using terms and quotes that were not factual.

We can get back onto the original debate at hand? Or have you gave up yet?

Haha, I think I best give up. You're far too witty and intellectual for me. You probably go straight to the sword master without training in Monkey Island and win don't you? You should tell me your Worms Reloaded profile name so that if I ever see it in a match, I'll know to quit the lobby immediately and save myself the embarrassment.

Someone should just close this.

It may have gone off topic somewhat but there is no excess of profanity, insults and no death threats. Besides, if it gets too hot in here Komo can no doubt just ninja rope outta here. As for me I'm off to watch the X-Files because it's Saturday night and I'm out of control like that.

[Thurbo]

I think you are right :)

Now I'm pretty sure his intention was to get it closed...

[NAiL]

To sum up my position, ropers should be catered for but not in a way that would unbalance the game for people who just want to have fun without having to earn a degree in roping to have a chance. I think that's as fair a statement as I can make without abandoning my position.


Out of everything you've said (some of which yes we do agree), the one thing I'd like you to understand is that the ninja rope doesnt create an unbalance in the scheme.

We'd all agree that its important to know the basics of all the weapons in a scheme. The basic training missions are more than enough tutorial to be able to learn the basics of the ninja rope. A basic grasp of the rope is all thats needed in order to win a default game. You don't have to "earn a degree in roping" in order to win a default game, because as we all know, using the rope is a very small factor in the equation.

The rope is only unbalanced if the scheme is unbalanced.

The rope will only be "balanced" in WR, if the SCHEME is balanced.
If you play a game of Intermediate in WA with stupid amounts of rope, then the scheme will be unbalanced. If you play a game of Intermediate in WR with stupid amounts of rope, the scheme will still be unbalanced.

A game of worms (be it in WA or WR), is not made unbalanced by the ninja rope. Balance is entirely dependant on the SCHEME, not the game.

[Draconis]

Agreed. As of now there are four ninja ropes in a Regular game and two in a Pro game which seems right to me.

[Komo]

Haha, I think I best give up. You're far too witty and intellectual for me. You probably go straight to the sword master without training in Monkey Island and win don't you? You should tell me your Worms Reloaded profile name so that if I ever see it in a match, I'll know to quit the lobby immediately and save myself the embarrassment.

I have played and completed that game, but can't remember any of it really so I can't tell you lol, maybe yes, maybe not...

The 2nd part of that was just a pointless comment, had nothing to do with anything we have discussed, you say there is no excess of insults, yet in almost every post you have made in the last page or 2, you have tried to insult me? Theres no need, and for the record, I only retaliated.



It may have gone off topic somewhat but there is no excess of profanity, insults and no death threats. Besides, if it gets too hot in here Komo can no doubt just ninja rope outta here. As for me I'm off to watch the X-Files because it's Saturday night and I'm out of control like that.

You have however thrown the most insults, you proud of that?

Theres nothing wrong with the X-Files :D

Now I'm pretty sure his intention was to get it closed...

What is so wrong with that?

NOW I want it closed, I didn't before because now it's going nowhere, although if it remains open, I will continue to post, I will never back down, until someone says something that I totally agree with and ends it, or someone realises something I said they completely agree with, and ends it, or we agree to disagree.

Agreed. As of now there are four ninja ropes in a Regular game and two in a Pro game which seems right to me.

Draconis, you finally agree with us, thank you :)

[Draconis]

I'm just about the only person who never directly insulted anyone in this thread. You're such an obvious troll.

What NAiL said about schemes is obviously correct. If Team17 for some reason made a direct bazooka hit cause 200 damage then clearly the current schemes would be unbalanced and would need changing. It's just common sense.

[Thurbo]

What NAiL said about schemes is obviously correct. If Team17 for some reason made a direct bazooka hit cause 200 damage then clearly the current schemes would be unbalanced and would need changing. It's just common sense.

Right, I was gonna say that, too. At least youcouldn't use that weapon anymore unless you accept unbalanced schemes.

Draconis, you finally agree with us, thank you :)

Well... actually he said the rope in WR works perfectly, you know? But if you also agree on this, I don't see any reason for this discussion to go on :)

[Komo]

I'm just about the only person who never directly insulted anyone in this thread. You're such an obvious troll.

A basic grasp of the English language will probably help your blood pressure level.

That's an insult directed at me, considering you quoted me.


Like I care if I offend you. Trust me, I don't.

This can be considered an insult, you are blatently admitting you don't care if you offend me, this, is considered insulting.


You are either a very, very stupid person or a wonderful troll.

This is another insult directed at me.

I had hope for the world less than an hour ago

This is yet another insult...


What was the debate again? You not understanding the English language despite apparently being from the UK? Oh yeah

Another one.


You should tell me your Worms Reloaded profile name so that if I ever see it in a match, I'll know to quit the lobby immediately and save myself the embarrassment.


Another...


if it gets too hot in here Komo can no doubt just ninja rope outta here.

Another obvious dig at me, i'm getting bored of this now lol...

Although none of these bother me in the slightest, all of them can still be considered as insulting to someone who can't handle a joke...

Go on, TRY and prove me wrong...


What NAiL said about schemes is obviously correct.

I said the same thing using different words, the whole point we were making about the schemes being balanced, being able to use the weapons correctly not the rope, the scheme has sufficient balance with ninja rope/other weapons...

I even demonstrated plenty of examples...

Either way I am glad someone put it into words that you understand, that is cool with me :)

[Komo]

Well... actually he said the rope in WR works perfectly, you know? But if you also agree on this, I don't see any reason for this discussion to go on :)


I do and I don't, it is and it isn't, it depends how you look at it, and how you personally feel makes a balanced scheme with Rope included.

I like WR rope though, and I like WA rope, although I MUCH prefer WA rope, is all.

[Draconis]

Psst... you ignored the word "direct" which was in italics for a reason... to emphasise it. Oh and you are a troll. That's not an insult, just the truth.

[Komo]

Psst... you ignored the word "direct" which was in italics for a reason... to emphasise it. Oh and you are a troll. That's not an insult, just the truth.

I just showed you directly insulting me, how can you even think about ignoring this, and ignoring your own words, what is wrong with you? You are the one doing it the most actually...

Do you even know what a troll is? It clearly looks like you don't? And no i'm not talking about trolls you see in Fantasy games, or troll dolls, I am talking about forum trolls, because I am not one, I am not going about insulting people and posting pointless posts, EVERYTHING I have been saying has been said with alot of effort and knowledge with the facts and examples to back it up, clearly something you fail to respect, let alone notice.

^^ All you are saying is I am wrong, and have no proof or facts why...

I have tried ending this so many times, I even agree with alot of things you have said and yet you continue to try and offend me, and flame me, it isn't working lol, get over yourself and act like an adult.

If anyone is a troll, it's YOU !

And I didn't ignore the italic style, it just didn't pick it up in the quote for some reason...

[Draconis]

I just showed you directly insulting me, how can you even think about ignoring this, and ignoring your own words, what is wrong with you?

Do you even know what a troll is? It clearly looks like you don't? And no i'm not talking about trolls you see in Fantasy games, or trolls dolls, I am talking about forum trolls, because I am not one, I am not going about insulting people and posting pointless posts, EVERYTHING I have been saying has been said with alot of effort and knowledge, clearly something you fail to respect, let alone notice.

You don't know what a direct insult is although you should:

it's the fact you are so ignorant as to what we have been blessed with here.

That is a direct insult and guess who it was made by... you. Oh my what an amazing surprise. Guess you lied just then eh? Oh no, my mistake, you're just trolling.

[Komo]

I never said I didn't insult you for starters, it's not much of an insult anyway, especially when I have the proof to back that comment up.

If anything that comment is advice for you anyway, open your eyes and try new things, if you don't enjoy them, don't complain about them, unlike you, I have tried, learned and mastered almost everything on WA.

[Draconis]

if you don't enjoy them, don't complain about them,

Take your own advice. I'm the one who is happy with the way Worms: Reloaded exactly as it is.

[Komo]

Take your own advice. I'm the one who is happy with the way Worms: Reloaded exactly as it is.


Funny that, because I just read another post you said you agreed that the petrol bomb does not make enough fire. How ironic... :O

How many times do I have to tell you anyway? I like WR the way it is... I have also pointed out WA players should stick to WA if they like the rope there so much, I love variety, and I have not ONCE said they should change anything about the rope, I have only agreed that it isn't the same as WA, and that in MY opinion, WA roping is better.

I am entitled to my own opinion, just like you are, as long as you are not trying to state that your opinion is correct and everyone elses is wrong, the same goes for me.

The only thing in WR I think they should change, is grenades (so far)

[Draconis]

Funny that, because I just read another post you said you agreed that the petrol bomb does not make enough fire. How ironic... :O



I knew you'd say that. Just because I think that fire should be a bit more widespread than it is doesn't mean I'm going be *****ing about it constantly and it doesn't mean I'm not happy with the game. I am. I'm not so lame as to let one minor aspect of a game ruin the whole thing for me.

[Komo]

I knew you'd say that. Just because I think that fire should be a bit more widespread than it is doesn't mean I'm going be *****ing about it constantly and it doesn't mean I'm not happy with the game. I am. I'm not so lame as to let one minor aspect of a game ruin the whole thing for me.

Yeah I know, and I totally agree with you, and I feel exactly the same, so why can't you feel how we feel about rope in WR, the way we see it, you could do so much more in WR if the Rope was capable enough, personally I would just like to be able to swing it up vertically and extend a bit easier, but I still like it the way it is, with the new weapons available I think this would be extremely exciting to learn new tactics in schemes like pro with the new weapons available, but I guess that is just how I see it, and I understand you do not feel the same way...

Also I have been mostly talking about the way you and some others feel about the Rope on WA, I have not complained about WR rope.

[MonkeyforaHead]

http://a.imagehost.org/0849/angryaboutworms.png

[Thurbo]

That worm's got a nose! :eek:

[Draconis]

That worm's got a nose! :eek:

It's a mutant :(

[Akuryou13]

That worm's got a nose! :eek:yes. Munkee drew it. he draws them with noses. and arms, usually.

[DarkOne]

W:R played awkwardly for me. Physics were really unpredictable for me, both on and off the rope, though the off-rope physics are probably just a point of getting used to it (I did lob a perfect 3 sec nade in the training once, but the bouncing physics are just weird)

I'm guessing T17 was going for a more realistic physics engine for the rope, but there are these random instances where your worm just fails around wildly, even while I never wanted it to do that (ie not using the arrow keys excessively).

Perhaps this was just the first impression, but being on top of the map is too important in WR, especially if there are no air strikes and such. Sure, it played a role in WA, but in WA you had more options for fighting back.

And then there's customizability. There's not a whole lot of it compared to WA.
I get that they didn't want to make another WA, but the fact is that WA has way more options. You can have more teams, you can set the time limits better (ever played hysteria? It's a hilarious scheme, especially when played with 6 people! And even better: no rope involved ;) It's pretty popular on WA too, so all you non-ropers "have a home").

I'll definitely give WR more chances to impress me/change my mind about it, but so far, it's a bit of a letdown.
That said, I still would've bought it regardless, cause of the endless entertainment WA brought me :)

[DrMelon]

To be honest, I prefer the new grenade physics. It's like that WormKit module pisto made for W:A, where the grenades followed an averaged path along the pixels (whereas before, grenades bounced off the side of pixels instead of rolling up slopes).

I love making shots that bounce off of angled things realistically, and slide around slopes as I'd expect a ball of explosives to do.

[MtlAngelus]

To be honest, I prefer the new grenade physics. It's like that WormKit module pisto made for W:A, where the grenades followed an averaged path along the pixels (whereas before, grenades bounced off the side of pixels instead of rolling up slopes).

I love making shots that bounce off of angled things realistically, and slide around slopes as I'd expect a ball of explosives to do.

Except it almost allways doesn't bounce the way you would expect it to, instead it just gets stuck where it landed.

[Komo]

Except it almost allways doesn't bounce the way you would expect it to, instead it just gets stuck where it landed.


Not to mention you can't realistically bank a grenade, by this I mean throw it off a wall and it goes straight up, it doesn't go off at an angle like it should if it was realistic.

[Thurbo]

Except it almost allways doesn't bounce the way you would expect it to, instead it just gets stuck where it landed.

I don't know, whenever I try this stuff it actually works.

What's this amount of complains about the grenade about, btw? The nade never stucks at places I didn't expect it to...

[MtlAngelus]

I don't know, whenever I try this stuff it actually works.

What's this amount of complains about the grenade about, btw? The nade never stucks at places I didn't expect it to...

Then you are playing a different game.

I made this shot in a fort match, for instance, and instead of bouncing on the girder the grenade just rolled to the right and stuck right next to the worm.

[GrimOswald]

Then you are playing a different game.

I made this shot in a fort match, for instance, and instead of bouncing on the girder the grenade just rolled to the right and stuck right next to the worm.

What's wrong with that? That's far more realistic than W:A's physics. Grenades aren't bouncy balls.

Whether that kind of physics is good for the game is debatable, but I don't see why it's unexpected. Unless you mean unexpected in comparison to what would happen in W:A.

[lDarKl]

What's wrong with that? That's far more realistic than W:A's physics. Grenades aren't bouncy balls.

Whether that kind of physics is good for the game is debatable, but I don't see why it's unexpected. Unless you mean unexpected in comparison to what would happen in W:A.

You're absolutely right about this, but when did Team17 start to think that a game of Worms shooting with military weapons needs a realistic physics engine? It was way more fun before when it was more bouncy IMO.

My point is still that they're taking away all the freedom which gave W:A so much depth that people have been playing it for 11 years.

[Komo]

Actually I don't think that it's more realistic, I think it should have at least SOME bounce to it if it were to be more realistic, and also as I have said already, banking a grenade doesn't work realistically either.

Throwing a 3s grenade to hit on impact, works like a dream I think though...

But thats like, the only shot to me that actually looks good...

[Pino]

I see it being mentioned in the topic a few times about the rope and other weapons... realism is not an argument in video games and most certainly NOT in worms

[Thurbo]

Then you are playing a different game.

Or I'm just way more used to the physics than you are :cool:

[Komo]

Awwww don't start this again lol !

[MtlAngelus]

What's wrong with that? That's far more realistic than W:A's physics. Grenades aren't bouncy balls.

Whether that kind of physics is good for the game is debatable, but I don't see why it's unexpected. Unless you mean unexpected in comparison to what would happen in W:A.Unexpected because other times it does appear to bounce.

Or I'm just way more used to the physics than you are :cool:
No.

[Draconis]

The only time I wonder about grenades is when they're in the hands of the AI. Even the supposedly bad opponents in the early campaign missions I've never seen miss with a grenade and the AI at the hardest levels on custom games is capable of the kind of trick shots that seem to put the laws of physics on hold. I'm talking about over a hill and making a u-turn to travel a distance up a passage in the opposite direction kind of stuff haha. Against human opponents though the weapon seems fine to me, I haven't noticed the "magnet" effect that others talk about.

[Thurbo]

No.

I'm not having those "wtf-moments" like you do thus it's likely you don't know how to use grenades properly yet.

[Komo]

The only time I wonder about grenades is when they're in the hands of the AI. Even the supposedly bad opponents in the early campaign missions I've never seen miss with a grenade and the AI at the hardest levels on custom games is capable of the kind of trick shots that seem to put the laws of physics on hold. I'm talking about over a hill and making a u-turn to travel a distance up a passage in the opposite direction kind of stuff haha. Against human opponents though the weapon seems fine to me, I haven't noticed the "magnet" effect that others talk about.

I consider myself to be the most passionate BnG'r on WA, by this I mean I play it ridiculously more than anyone else on WA does, I have pulled off the most impossible looking shots that WA allows you to do at BnG, and by this I don't mean luck, I mean actually meaning to do them, and I could bet ALOT of players on WA would back me up on this.

The point is, I totally 110% agree with you, I was on one of the campaigns were the AI threw a grenade off the wall behind him, it rolled straight up, right a little, bounced of land that should have made it go the opposite way, but instead rolled way down, hit off another bit that should have went the other way but instead, again, went in my direction, rolled up hole that had been made by another grenade, into a tunnel and hit me perfectly for 45hp.

There is NO way in my life, I could be capable of doing this shot no matter how hard I tried, there is no way you could guess that exact course of the grenade, and to me that is completely ridiculous and far-fetched as I do see myself as being one of the most creative, imaginative and consistent BnG'rs ever to have played WA, obviously it is possible, or the AI would not have been able to do that, but how are we supposed to learn how to do that, the chance of you even being able to pull shots like this off at a 5% rate are close to nothing...

Bottom line, it is ridiculous that the AI can do these shots, everytime the AI does this do me I automatically and cannot help but say "No ****ing way!!!" everytime... We have no chance of beating AI in a head on BnG like this...

[Komo]

I will, at some point, seriously experiment with the BnG on WR and eventually either try to master it and try create a balanced and fun scheme (if possible) or give up if it doesn't have the potential.

It was the main reason why I got WR anyway, was to try the BnG, yes, I like BnG THAT much lol...

[Psy-UK]

Good luck but be aware that there is no way to place your worm manually unless you edit the landscape file.

[Komo]

Good luck but be aware that there is no way to place your worm manually unless you edit the landscape file.

Unfortunately, i've already realised that lol...

Which brings me to my next point:

We should DEFINATELY have manual placement !

This obviously creates a whole new spectrum of gameplay.

[Komo]

Also, so far what I have done is create a BnG scheme based of what I use on WA, and seeing as you can't manually place your worms before the game starts, I just take both 1st turns teleporting to desired positions.

If they don't add manual placement into WR, you could always make this a rule.

[Akuryou13]

What's wrong with that? That's far more realistic than W:A's physics. Grenades aren't bouncy balls.

Whether that kind of physics is good for the game is debatable, but I don't see why it's unexpected. Unless you mean unexpected in comparison to what would happen in W:A.I agree that the heavier grenade is nice and interesting and all, but half the time it DOES just stick to where it landed. it doesn't roll, it doesn't bounce, it just sticks like glue. that is NOT realistic or better for gameplay.

I overall agree that the new grenade physics are better, but the sticking thing Angelus mentions really is just dumb.

[DrMelon]

It is rather annoying when it sticks to worms too. Sometimes I need to bounce the grenade off of a worm (even a friendly one) to reach certain points.

[Akuryou13]

It is rather annoying when it sticks to worms too. Sometimes I need to bounce the grenade off of a worm (even a friendly one) to reach certain points.lol, that works in armageddon?! that seems a little silly either way. I'd expect the grenade not to bounce off of flesh very much at all, but also not to stick to it.

[MtlAngelus]

I'm not having those "wtf-moments" like you do thus it's likely you don't know how to use grenades properly yet.

That's extremely retarded logic right there, not unexpected from you tho.

[Komo]

Since when do grenades in real lifeever stick to a person, or an object when you throw it?

This is NOT counting Sticky Grenades, I am talking about a normal grenade.

[yakuza]

Since when do grenades in real lifeever stick to a person, or an object when you throw it?

This is NOT counting Sticky Grenades, I am talking about a normal grenade.

Well, grenades in real life don't really bounce that much, they basically just roll on the floor.

[Komo]

Well, grenades in real life don't really bounce that much, they basically just roll on the floor.

I'd say they bounce similar to how they do with min bounce on WA, as it depends on what power and angle you use.

In WR this counts for nothing though...

[RatScabies]

you're making a very mistaken presumption that the rope has always been as it is , and unnaturally, people came in and 'ruined the game' when WWP and W:A came around, and made something that was never meant to be, a popular part of the game.

WWP and W:A 'enhanced' portions of the mechanic of roping that made playing and practicing with the rope allowed you to do maneuvers that were only possible with that style of gameplay / physics.

Then they went backwards with the Xbox release, made it more playable with a 'game controller' (as opposed to keypad which to rope with skill you need to use to get the proper inputs in quickly) and made it more 'novice style' for gamers on console.
For Worms Reloaded, make it PC physics, and PC game play. We are, after all, playing on PC. not a game console.

To me, this posts nails it. Obviously, the rope was nerfed to make the game easier to play with a joystick. Try and plug in a 360 controller and map the analog stick to your arrow keys in W:A. You'll find it's pretty impossible to rope. Now try it in W:R. Works fine. The mystery is solved... We PC gamers just got an uninspired console port that retained those physics. I even noticed that the weapon menu graphics are jagged and low res compared to the 3d engine stuff, a sure fire sign of lazy development.

[yakuza]

To me, this posts nails it. Obviously, the rope was nerfed to make the game easier to play with a joystick. Try and plug in a 360 controller and map the analog stick to your arrow keys in W:A. You'll find it's pretty impossible to rope.

There's been countless proof of the opposite since WA was launched. A few people have mastered joypad roping, and it's even easier to do some things, like tapping at very fast speeds.

[Komo]

you're making a very mistaken presumption that the rope has always been as it is , and unnaturally, people came in and 'ruined the game' when WWP and W:A came around, and made something that was never meant to be, a popular part of the game.

We never said it's always been like it is in WA, we obviously know this, which is why we said that in our opinions, the rope is best on WA.

You can't argue with numbers, and these show WA is the most popular and competitive edition in the francise with the Ninja Rope in WA being a big reason for this.

No one ruined the game, you like it the way you do, we like it the way we do, this makes the whole worms genre perfect in my opinion, it offers something for everyone...

[Akuryou13]

I'd say they bounce similar to how they do with min bounce on WA, as it depends on what power and angle you use. grenades are heavy. surprisingly so. they don't bounce pretty much at all no matter what you do to them short of using a grenade launcher (I would imagine, as I've not actually used a grenade launcher before).

[albe182]

I didn't know where to post, someone know how to pass campaign level 21? >_>

[RatScabies]

There's been countless proof of the opposite since WA was launched. A few people have mastered joypad roping, and it's even easier to do some things, like tapping at very fast speeds.

Yeah I'm sure this is the case, but this is intentionally missing my point. I didn't really mean it's LITERALLY impossible, just not preferable. To put it another way, I think a newcomer will have a much easier time roping with WR than WA if a 360 controller is used. They obviously changed the feel of the rope to accommodate playing with one. WR is a 360 game ported to Steam, thus we get the same joypad centered roping...

[MtlAngelus]

I didn't know where to post, someone know how to pass campaign level 21? >_>

Jump to the right, perform two backflips, take out your bazooka, aim straight up and fire at half power.

[Husk]

grenades are heavy. surprisingly so. they don't bounce pretty much at all no matter what you do to them short of using a grenade launcher (I would imagine, as I've not actually used a grenade launcher before).

this is a game, where worms are using banana bombs to kill each other.
i dun think they tried to make some of the weapons act like they would in rea life, they just messed up the physics.

[MtlAngelus]

So anyway, after playing this game for a while I have come to the conclusions that you all that say the new rope is more balanced are IDIOTS. From my perspective, it is as "overpowered" as ever, you can still get anywhere and effortlesly place X weapon on worms heads in whatever scheme includes it. The only drawback in the new rope is that it's pants for showing off. So now we still have the "overpowered" problem you all seem to have suffered so much from in W:A, but with a boring rope that cannot be used for rope-based schemes. So you can all take that argument and shove it WHERE YOUR POOP COMES OUT.

Thank you for your valuable time.

[Mablak]

From my perspective, it is as "overpowered" as ever, you can still get anywhere and effortlesly place X weapon on worms heads in whatever scheme includes it. The only drawback in the new rope is that it's pants for showing off. So now we still have the "overpowered" problem you all seem to have suffered so much from in W:A, but with a boring rope that cannot be used for rope-based schemes. So you can all take that argument and shove it WHERE YOUR POOP COMES OUT.

Thank you for your valuable time.

I'd have to agree with this from what I've seen of the WR rope, at least for any remotely default schemes. The rope can still be used to get you almost anywhere. It's only less 'overpowered' in rope-based schemes where speed matters (not sure if this would even include shopper), and this is silly because only people who want to get proficient at rope play those schemes much anyway.

The dumbing down of the rope does at least prevent newbies from getting intimidated by ropers and dropping the game, but there are better ways to achieve this without sacrificing gameplay.

[Akuryou13]

So anyway, after playing this game for a while I have come to the conclusions that you all that say the new rope is more balanced are IDIOTS. From my perspective, it is as "overpowered" as ever, you can still get anywhere and effortlesly place X weapon on worms heads in whatever scheme includes it. The only drawback in the new rope is that it's pants for showing off. So now we still have the "overpowered" problem you all seem to have suffered so much from in W:A, but with a boring rope that cannot be used for rope-based schemes. So you can all take that argument and shove it WHERE YOUR POOP COMES OUT.

Thank you for your valuable time.after watching the way you use the rope, yes. the new rope is completely pants. it's just as easy to maneuver with once you know what you're doing, and it stops you from showing off, just as you said. completely pointless alteration indeed.

[franpa]

lol, that works in armageddon?! that seems a little silly either way. I'd expect the grenade not to bounce off of flesh very much at all, but also not to stick to it.

Cnosidering the worms have hands, I would think they would NOT hold onto live grenades and would try batting them away so unless they get buried deep into the worms exoskeleton, they shouldn't get stuck.

[Thurbo]

Having not read anything in this thread I will say this: The current implementation is hopeless at vertical travel.

Had to be done (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrax46bC10)

[Akuryou13]

Had to be done (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrax46bC10)lol, thank you! maybe one day the crotchety roper purists will learn.

[bottle]

Had to be done (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrax46bC10)

sure it's possible. getting up under the circumstances in the video is really simple (because the surface je bounces against has a little slope). but if you want to do these extension on a fully orthogonal surface it's impossible (for me at the moment. with the technique the guy in the video used)

[Akuryou13]

sure it's possible. getting up under the circumstances in the video is really simple (because the surface je bounces against has a little slope). but if you want to do these extension on a fully orthogonal surface it's impossible (for me at the moment. with the technique the guy in the video used)which is why the jetpack exists.

[Thurbo]

sure it's possible. getting up under the circumstances in the video is really simple (because the surface je bounces against has a little slope). but if you want to do these extension on a fully orthogonal surface it's impossible (for me at the moment. with the technique the guy in the video used)

If you mean something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qltb-ac43ss) - well, here you go. It wasn't really difficult I tell you. And yep you can also use the jet pack if you wish.

[bottle]

If you mean something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qltb-ac43ss) - well, here you go. It wasn't really difficult I tell you. And yep you can also use the jet pack if you wish.

ok, good one. i have to figure it out. but seriously climbing up a wall with this speed, makes interesting and attractive rope-scheme-games impossible. keeping in mind that T17 put a race-scheme in the game, they did something wrong. your video proofs that the rope is pretty good for default-style games though, good job. but at this moment there won't exist a scheme like elite, because the actions you do with the rope are too slow, besides random placement.

btw i think this game is actually good. i'll for patches, but i'm not very hopeful for the near future.

[Thurbo]

Well in my first video I got there within 20 seconds and with exactly two re-shots (number in a pro game). From the very bottom to the top. I think that should be enough even for a pro game, I mean, that's a hugely advantaging move-in-your-position.

Alright, in the second video I needed a little more time but the landscape generator usually doesn't create big rectangular blocks of land :rolleyes:

[Akuryou13]

ok, good one. i have to figure it out. but seriously climbing up a wall with this speed, makes interesting and attractive rope-scheme-games impossible. keeping in mind that T17 put a race-scheme in the game, they did something wrong. your video proofs that the rope is pretty good for default-style games though, good job. but at this moment there won't exist a scheme like elite, because the actions you do with the rope are too slow, besides random placement.

btw i think this game is actually good. i'll for patches, but i'm not very hopeful for the near future.the rope needs a little tweaking, but largely it gets easier and easier as time goes along. I'm already pretty used to it myself, and people like MtlAngelus and, apparently, Thurbo have already pretty much mastered it. give us all a few months and we'll be moving with this new rope at the same speeds we used to, or close enough to that anyway.

[MtlAngelus]

the rope needs a little tweaking, but largely it gets easier and easier as time goes along. I'm already pretty used to it myself, and people like MtlAngelus and, apparently, Thurbo have already pretty much mastered it. give us all a few months and we'll be moving with this new rope at the same speeds we used to, or close enough to that anyway.

Nope. While it is about as usable as before for standard schemes, I don't think it'll ever be as versatile as the old rope in terms of unique rope-based schemes, which really is a shame.

Also, don't make me out to be a pro at the rope. I'm not. I just abused the fact that it's easier to push yourself up if you fire it directly at the ground next to you to surmount large obstacles in island based maps. :P

[Akuryou13]

Also, don't make me out to be a pro at the rope. I'm not. I just abused the fact that it's easier to push yourself up if you fire it directly at the ground next to you to surmount large obstacles in island based maps. :Pwhich, at this point in time, makes you about as much a pro as anyone is :p the competition for the title of "pro" is pretty bleak right now.

[bonz]

Also, don't make me out to be a pro at the rope. I'm not.
But you surely can do a... Mexi.
*ta-ta-toosh*
:D