Letter to Team17... or What the online mode needs to survive

[Fnsterbank]

Hello,

I'm Fensterbank, and I started playing the Worms Games with Worms 2, since 2006 I'm playing Worms Armageddon online. I also played it in the ESL (Electronic Sports League).

Here I want to write a few things, which are necessary for the survive of the online-mode of Worms Reloaded:

1) Open Hosting Structure:
We PC players are not like the console players. We have higher requirements to online modes.
We see it on Battlefield or Call of Duty: The console players are accustomed to have no choice.
They join a game, and can't choose the map, can't choose the settings, can't kick players they don't like. They can't host a game.
We PC players want to host our own games, we want to do what we want, and how we want. You can see it in the very old Counter Strike 1.6 and also in Worms Armageddon. It's a PC-typical open hosting structure, and it works great.


2) All Configurable
Only if all things can be configured and manipulated, new game modes can be invented. Yes, it should be like Worms Armageddon, all configurable, transportable schemes and settings, including things, which normally can't configured (Keyword "TestStuff").

3) Replays
Automatically saved replays are important for two things:
- Ladder Games (like in the ESL), where Replays are necessary
- Popularity: Because of Replays, people can make great Worms-Videos, which can be uploaded to YouTube. This also improves the popularity of the game and binds the community.
If you additional insert an video export functionality, it's easier for laity to create their own Worms Videos.

4) Importing own maps
Yes, I read, that the new Worms Game will have a map editor... like all other PC Worms Games before.
But what we really need, is the functionality to use png-maps in the game.
If you don't make it possible to create own maps external (Photoshop, Gimp & Co) and import it to the game, Worms-Schemes like Shopper, Flyshopper, Surfshopper, WxW, Roperace wont get it into Worms Reloaded. And without these schemes, the onlinemode of Worms Reloaded won't make it more than a year.
In the Worms Map Database, there exists thousands of maps for Worms Armageddon. Also I made a Flyshopper-Map for it. So a converter for this huge map archive would also be great.


I hope, you'll read what I wrote, and I think, if you make the online-functionality like this, I'm sure, you can make one of the best Worms-Games ever.
Worms is a Game, which lives and dies with its online mode. So please make the best! :)


Last but not least:
This has nothing to do with the online mode, but you want to release the game in Steam?
Tip1: Release it in a boxed version, pressed on a DVD, with a manual made in paper too!
Tip2: Steam is now released for MacOS... it will surely come for Linux too, I think.
So, you can Release Worms Reloaded for MacOS too... and with this (because of OpenGL), it's easy to release it for Linux too.

I play Worms Armageddon only in Linux...


So, that was all.
Have fun and good luck!
Fensterbank, Germany

[hundreds]

Am I allowed to respond to this? I don't think I can because of the NDA... I think the only response I can give to Fensterbank is... have faith, and don't worry.

I hope Team17 will elaborate on the details of this letter. I would, I just don't know if it would violate anything in the NDA.

[D_Wormkill]

I tell something surely not going against NDA: Team17 takes care of its customers.

[Plasma]

Since Worms Reloaded is heavily based upon Worms 2 Armageddon, it's presumable that the game was made in C++ and uses Microsoft XNA. In other words, it's not gonna get ported to Mac or Linux.


Additionally, no, the game will not get an in-store hard-copy release. Team17 have repeatedly said that it's far more profitable to publish the game themselves through Digital Distribution than it is to have an out-of-house Publisher.

[hundreds]

Since Worms Reloaded is heavily based upon Worms 2 Armageddon, it's presumable that the game was made in C++ and uses Microsoft XNA. In other words, it's not gonna get ported to Mac or Linux.

From the Team17 Facebook Notes:

MAC
We hear all the shouts for a native MAC edition. We have been awaiting a workable digital distribution solution and are hopeful to announce something in due course. The MAC is long overdue a version of WORMS.

I also remember seeing a post on the Team17 facebook that referred to steam being a viable option for Mac distribution. I can't "search" their fb page, so I am having trouble finding that comment.

[Wormetti]

Since Worms Reloaded is heavily based upon Worms 2 Armageddon, it's presumable that the game was made in C++ and uses Microsoft XNA. In other words, it's not gonna get ported to Mac or Linux.

None of Team17's games use XNA. XNA games are written in C#. Companies the size of Team17 don't need to use XNA, they can afford and get approved for proper devkits that allow using C++. Their games also appear on PS3 and that obviously doesn't have XNA.

[vartaxe]

well i actually only want that worms reloaded be worms 2 armageddon with a face lift and coded new up from the ground wich. so if it has all the features like w2armageddon + better graphics it will be obviously a win. not to forget that a new game means it works on windows 7 and now steam being on mac too maybe there's a chance to see worms reloaded on osx later too. but yeah customisation is obviously something not to forget for online play. custom maps, shemes, map editor, big maps support including "vertical" maps, full featured server creator, browser.

btw does the game include portuguese language like old times? i mean real portuguese from portugal not only brazilian portuguese...

[Kel]

I think the only response I can give to Fensterbank is... have faith, and don't worry.
.

Yep, that's about all we can say right now :)

[Thurbo]

Four things that annoy me anytime I play WA:

*Though there exist great schemes like shoppa, rope race or hysteria, I got the feeling almost nobody is playing Worms anymore like it was actually meant to be. You know: Scheme Intermediate.
Now you'll probably say "Just host yourself", but that leads us to annoying thing number too:
*I'm unable to host. I won't get what I had to configure at my router or something to be able to host anyway. Maybe it also has to do with the fact T17's online codings don't really work, but this combined with my own very sloppy connection makes me almost unable to play at all... annoying thing number three:
*Due to my connection I get kicked very often (custom map loading takes a lot of time, I clicked the bulb but it lights up with a delay of ten seconds etc etc). Most of the players online aren't really patient, too. The constant question "rulez? do ya know the rulz dude"? has to do with annoying thing number four:
*When I bought WA in 2001 (I was a 7-year-old) I couldn't speak English at all thus I got kicked and kicked and kicked because I didn't know the rules of the custom schemes.
Even several years later when my English improved I had to beg for someone very kindly explaining me the rules.

Probably a bit off-topic but I had to say that :p

[SupSuper]

Since Worms Reloaded is heavily based upon Worms 2 Armageddon, it's presumable that the game was made in C++ and uses Microsoft XNA. In other words, it's not gonna get ported to Mac or Linux.Hahaha holy **** how far did you pull that out of your ass???

- XNA is not the 360 devkit.
- XNA doesn't use C++.
- Only a minority of 360 games are made with XNA.
- And how can you even tell if it's made in XNA anyways?
- Not to mention Team17 has been using a similar engine on 360/PS3/Wii and maybe PSP/DS.
- And in the end none of this is really indicative how likely something gets ported since it comes down to a lot more than development cost.
- In short WTF????

[Plasma]

...I... honesly don't even know.


I blame not getting enough sleep!



Edit: Well okay, that's not entirely true. I honestly thought most 360 games did use XNA, even just a little, and I didn't think they used the same engine for ALL the Worms games, but the rest was complete mistakes!

[Esbern]

Four things that annoy me anytime I play WA:

*Though there exist great schemes like shoppa, rope race or hysteria, I got the feeling almost nobody is playing Worms anymore like it was actually meant to be. You know: Scheme Intermediate.



I mostly play intermediate in WWP. So i guess that's where you want to look for those game types.

[hundreds]

Hahaha holy **** how far did you pull that out of your ass???

I don't even know what XNA means (nor do I really care...) but that comment was just hilarious. No offense Plasma....!

[BetongÅsna]

Four things that annoy me anytime I play WA:

*Though there exist great schemes like shoppa, rope race or hysteria, I got the feeling almost nobody is playing Worms anymore like it was actually meant to be. You know: Scheme Intermediate.
Now you'll probably say "Just host yourself", but that leads us to annoying thing number too:
*I'm unable to host. I won't get what I had to configure at my router or something to be able to host anyway. Maybe it also has to do with the fact T17's online codings don't really work, but this combined with my own very sloppy connection makes me almost unable to play at all... annoying thing number three:
*Due to my connection I get kicked very often (custom map loading takes a lot of time, I clicked the bulb but it lights up with a delay of ten seconds etc etc). Most of the players online aren't really patient, too. The constant question "rulez? do ya know the rulz dude"? has to do with annoying thing number four:
*When I bought WA in 2001 (I was a 7-year-old) I couldn't speak English at all thus I got kicked and kicked and kicked because I didn't know the rules of the custom schemes.
Even several years later when my English improved I had to beg for someone very kindly explaining me the rules.

Probably a bit off-topic but I had to say that :pSurely you can use hostingbuddy? Then you can dictate the pace of the game yourself.

Also I disagree - there's still a lot of normal games around. If you sit in the room for a few minutes you can be fairly sure of one popping up.

[Etho.]

I honestly thought most 360 games did use XNA, even just a little, and I didn't think they used the same engine for ALL the Worms games, but the rest was complete mistakes!

All Xbox360 Indie games are made using XNA. A small number of Xbox360 Arcade games were also made using XNA, such as Rocket Riot.

[dobby985]

From the Team17 Facebook Notes:

MAC
We hear all the shouts for a native MAC edition. We have been awaiting a workable digital distribution solution and are hopeful to announce something in due course. The MAC is long overdue a version of WORMS.

I also remember seeing a post on the Team17 facebook that referred to steam being a viable option for Mac distribution. I can't "search" their fb page, so I am having trouble finding that comment.

Steam for Mac.

[Thurbo]

Surely you can use hostingbuddy? Then you can dictate the pace of the game yourself.

First it takes ages and second, because of that, players are leaving my room after a few seconds. Also I can't use own maps.

Also I disagree - there's still a lot of normal games around. If you sit in the room for a few minutes you can be fairly sure of one popping up.

For me it's rare.

[franpa]

For retail distribution Team17 also said they "may" release at a later time a retail version of the game in shops. Depends on how popular the Steam game is I guess. So they maximize profits by starting off as Steam Exclusive then making significantly lesser profits but broadening the player base by getting a publisher for retail distribution.

Sounds like a sound plan to me. As for the OP, I agree with all of what he said.

[BetongÅsna]

For me it's rare.Can't be common for one person and rare for another :/ Maybe I just time my visits extremely well, who knows?