Saying "I used MSPaint" is not an excuse for bad art

[Squirminator2k]

I've seen a number of posters here saying "I maed this art in mspaint so its not very good lolololol". Firstly, that's a relatively (Bullocks - Ed.) sort of statement to make. There is an old saying - "A poor workman always blames his tools" - and while I don't generally hold such a statement to much credence, I think it's very true of a lot of the claims here in the Fan Art forum.

So in future, if you're rubbish, just say "Yes, I'm rubbish, here's some art I did in MSPaint, please dish out the negative criticism so I can either take it on board and try to apply it to future work or, more than likely, ignore it, accuse everyone of flaming me, and leave the forum in the huff only to come back three days later with equally terrible art which I claim has 'improved'."

[Pyramid]

What kind of twisted and horrible world do we live on where people blame this wonderfull tool? :(

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/674/shytypaintjo5.png

[Squirminator2k]

No. Wait. Look. If I can do [this (http://squirminator2k.deviantart.com/art/Worm-with-a-Handgun-19397238)] with MSPaint, then everyone can do better.

Nice shading, though.

[Shadowmoon]

I actually blame my computer for bad art, because i find using a mouse complicated.


drawing is much easier.

[Squirminator2k]

"A poor workman..."

[Shadowmoon]

hell, drawing is much easier on the computer. Pencil drawing, that is.

[_Kilburn]

I actually blame my computer for bad art, because i find using a mouse complicated

...hell, drawing is much easier on the computer. Pencil drawing, that is.

Umm, yeah. Basically, you mean that you suck at both computer drawing, and pencil drawing. :p

[Akuryou13]

perhaps it's time for another paint competition.

but anyway, for further evidence, I submit the MS Paint competition thread of 2005 (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21928&page=1&pp=30)

edit: specifically these posts:
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=354911&postcount=156
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=354987&postcount=161
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=355108&postcount=172
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=354839&postcount=143

[Shadowmoon]

nope, i'm decent at pencil drawing. I'm saying, that i find computer drawing harder.

i got my words mixed up.

[MtlAngelus]

I've seen your pencil drawings. They are not better.

[shadowman]

"A poor workman..."

I remember you using that on me when I first met you guys.
Thanks for that, it helped me along.

[Shadowmoon]

I've seen your pencil drawings. They are not better.

*sighs*


it is not my best

:rolleyes:

[super_frea]

You are trying to be very sarcastic all of a sudden

Surely if you think a certain piece of artwork "is not my best" you shouldn't post it on the forum?

[Shadowmoon]

well, apparently, this forum isn't as 'stricter' as this one, so more freedom is allowed.

[Squirminator2k]

Yeah, but if your art is rubbish be prepared to hear people say "Y'know, this art is rubbish."

That is, unless you're part of the MSPaint Circlejerk of Fan Art posters who all do crappy MSPaint art and pat each other on the back for doing so.

[super_frea]

well, apparently, this forum isn't as 'stricter' as this one, so more freedom is allowed.
That made utterly no sense...
please try again.

[Shadowmoon]

why do you want to know?

well i'm not telling, sorry.

[WormGod]

Man, I love you.
You're the next Eggy. :)

In terms of on-topicness, I made this reasonable picture in Paint a while ago for this school competition. I don't have it with me now; I might edit this post on a computer which does provide me with it.

Nevertheless, here's something: if you can't draw in Paint, you can't draw.

Or, if you're looking for some appropriate advice: if you can't draw in Paint, try making some sprites. Take time on drawing them at first, because you'll be able to knock up stuff pretty quickly once you've got it all drawn out.

[Squirminator2k]

Because even you don't know?

Look, if I see an egg, I'm going to call it an egg. If I see a cat, I'm going to call it a cat. And if I see some Glod-awful art, some terrible drawing wrought from the gnarled hand of an artist whose artistic talent can be measured in the number of hurdles Robbie Coltrane could successfully jump over before he collapsed in a panting heap, I'm going to call it as such.

Edit: He's tried doing sprites. They're just as bad.

[Shadowmoon]

well wormgod, i love you too.


i am good at pencil art!



OKAY!!!!

[robowurmz]

You're right, S2K. Even if he got Flash or Photoshop or something, he would still do terrible art. It's like saying, I can't build with these bricks; they're red.

If they were BLUE you still wouldn't be able to build!


well wormgod, i love you too.


i am good at pencil art!



OKAY!!!!


No, it's not okay. If you're so good at pencil art, prove it for once.

[WormGod]

It is rather annoying, what with returning to a forum where the mood has drastically changed since your last visit, no? :(

Don't kick a man when he's down (in terms of knowledge, in this case), if you please. Unless that man is Shadowmoon.

[Squirminator2k]

I wouldn't object if he (and most of the MSPaint Self-Aggrandizement Brigade) made a conscious attempt to improve their work. As it is, they draw their terrible drawings and then pat each other on the back for it. It's eerily reminiscent of the Modern Art scene.

[super_frea]

i am good at pencil art!



OKAY!!!!

Well if you show us one example of a good piece of artwork you have done then perhaps we will get off your back...

[Shadowmoon]

Okay, i'll say it.

I'm rubbish at art, i suck badly, and my art is the worstest art in the word and it belongs in the trashcan.

There, i said it.

[Pyramid]

Oh...no need to cry ok? :-/

The only true problem with paint is that requires more pacience and that's all

[FutureWorm]

Okay, i'll say it.

I'm rubbish at art, i suck badly, and my art is the worstest art in the word and it belongs in the trashcan.

There, i said it.
thank you for your understanding

[Shadowmoon]

You're right, S2K. Even if he got Flash or Photoshop or something, he would still do terrible art. It's like saying, I can't build with these bricks; they're red.

If they were BLUE you still wouldn't be able to build!

My art IS terrible. You die if you look at it.

[Squirminator2k]

Welcome back!

[Shadowmoon]

I'm not going to leave. I over-reacted.

So now, you know my art is rubbish, the argue has ended, i guess.

[Plasma]

Not really, because you're still going to ignore any suggestions on how to improve your art.

[Shadowmoon]

But... you don't even know what my art looks like!

and i couldn't post a picture, its against the rules.:(

And its against the rules, because my art is bad.

[Plasma]

But... you don't even know what my art looks like!
Yes we do. You did actually draw some pictures, y'know.

and i couldn't post a picture, its against the rules.:(
In what way?

[Shadowmoon]

Its bad art. But fine, i'll post a picture that i did on a forum.


http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3269/shockedbastincx1.png


I'm prepared for any negative comments.

[FutureWorm]

Its bad art. But fine, i'll post a picture that i did on a forum.

I'm prepared for any negative comments.
yes you are terrible, but this has been established already so i don't know if you're just a masochist or what

[Pyramid]

You got to be kidding me..... :confused:

[super_frea]

I'm prepared for any negative comments.

Thank God for that.

[WormGod]

Don't just say he is terrible - HELP him!
To be honest, a few years ago that's how I probably would have drawn in Paint - maybe even worse.

First of all, try and make it a little bit neater. Presentation IS everything. Make the buttons look in line, make the lines' curves smoother, and so on.
Also, if you're going to use outlines, use it for all of the objects in the picture.

[Squirminator2k]

His behavior here is classic - he's waiting for someone to leap in and say, "Y'know, it's not that bad." He's waiting for validation.

[Plasma]

First tip: make the worm worm-coloured, not just pink.
Considering how many times you've been told that, I'd like to see you do it first before offering more advice.

[Squirminator2k]

Shadowmoon, you cowardly weasil, you edited your "I'M LEAVING AND I'M NEVAR COMIGN BAKK!!!11" post. Tch.

[WormGod]

God, it's threads like these that make me leave for a few more months until I repeat my nostalgia - my yearning for the good old days.

Leave him alone. You all used to be newbies, and you all know you used to draw like that. He's about as good as reder8 or agent_luke - and I KNOW you didn't fuss over them as much.

[Shadowmoon]

I'm working on the picture now.

I cannot seem to find the peach colour in paint at all. I'll remove the outlines, and make the head more round, i just can't seem to find peach!

[Plasma]

and I KNOW you didn't fuss over them as much.
Yes, yes we did. Seriously, did you have a brain tumor recently?

I cannot seem to find the peach colour in paint at all.
It's pretty much just pale orange.

[FutureWorm]

His behavior here is classic - he's waiting for someone to leap in and say, "Y'know, it's not that bad." He's waiting for validation.

that much is obvious, and it's utterly pathetic as well

[Shadowmoon]

Shadowmoon, you cowardly weasil, you edited your "I'M LEAVING AND I'M NEVAR COMIGN BAKK!!!11" post. Tch.

Yes i sure did.


The squiggly lines on paint are hard to avoid, due to the fact that its just how the paintbrush is.

So it is really going to take a while to get the hair the right shape.

[Plasma]

The squiggly lines on paint are hard to avoid, due to the fact that its just how the paintbrush is.
Once again: curve tool!

[yakuza]

With the amount of free programs out there to paint, people should really consider banning MS Paint from the Fan Art forum, unless there's a MS Paint contest or something.

[Shadowmoon]

But why? why exactly should it be banned? It isn't the best of paint progammes, but still, its good enough to create a good picture.

Its a decent painting progam, if you know it well.

[Plasma]

But why? why exactly should it be banned?
Because Yakuza's a pessimist.

[_Kilburn]

Once again: curve tool!

I disagree. Curves and lines just suck, they may be useful for underdrawing, but never for the final outlines. They usually give a very linear aspect, which is quite ugly. Just get used to the mouse, it takes some time, but you will eventually get it.

[Plasma]

I disagree. Curves and lines just suck, they may be useful for underdrawing, but never for the final outlines. They usually give a very linear aspect, which is quite ugly. Just get used to the mouse, it takes some time, but you will eventually get it.
MSpaint reference pic:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/594/digital02zw3.png
That's worse than having beginner-grade squiggly lines?

[super_frea]

I agree.
I would advise shadowmoon to use the curve tool, at least for the time being.
Once/if he becomes accustom to that I would advocate moving on to using the mouse more freely.

[Paul.Power]

I'm still waiting to see some of Shadowmoon's pencil stuff that's supposedly very good.

[yakuza]

But why? why exactly should it be banned? It isn't the best of paint progammes, but still, its good enough to create a good picture.

Its a decent painting progam, if you know it well.

Yes, and four wheels stuck on a piece of wood will allow you to travel. There is no reason to use MS Paint as your default painting program, at all. Specially since downloading an alternative free versions takes 5 minutes, and 5 minutes more to adapt to it. I'm sure you can spare 10 minutes of your drawing learning process, you still have a long way, anyway.
I'm not against the use of it, I just don't understand why you would insist on using it exclusively.

[farazparsa]

Did everyone forget great techniques like dithering and gradients? MSPaint doesn't suck, it's just harder to work with...relatively speaking.

[robowurmz]

MS Paint is does not make your art bad. Likewise, Flash or Paint Shop Pro XII will not make your art good; it all depends on your drawing skill. The colours can come later. Flash and so on are good for producing colouring and blurring effects. Flash does make drawing smoother lines easier, but that's not necessary.

[_Kilburn]

Yes, and four wheels stuck on a piece of wood will allow you to travel. There is no reason to use MS Paint as your default painting program, at all. Specially since downloading an alternative free versions takes 5 minutes, and 5 minutes more to adapt to it. I'm sure you can spare 10 minutes of your drawing learning process, you still have a long way, anyway.
I'm not against the use of it, I just don't understand why you would insist on using it exclusively.

It's called challenge. It's like using grenades against you enemy in WA, even though you have infinite banana bombs in your inventory.

[yakuza]

It's called challenge. It's like using grenades against you enemy in WA, even though you have infinite banana bombs in your inventory.

I used the word "default" to avoid replies like this one. Didn't work it seems.

[Metal Alex]

If you use Paint, put more effort to compensate the lack of tools. If it came out worse, don't blame the program, blame the effort.

[yauhui]

Tried Splapp's worm-drawing tutorial?

[Shadowmoon]

Tried Splapp's worm-drawing tutorial?

Yes, i have.

I've been practicing with it, but on the computer, its hard to get the shape right. On paper i'm getting there, but i keep getting the shape wrong.

[Kelster23]

You are trying to be very sarcastic all of a sudden

Surely if you think a certain piece of artwork "is not my best" you shouldn't post it on the forum?

I just post what I can do. It might not be the best, but it does contain some effort.

So, who remembers my art when I first came here? :(
I vote another ms paint contest!

[Plasma]

So, who remembers my art when I first came here? :(
I do. It was better than most people's first attempt anyway.

[Kelster23]

I do. It was better than most people's first attempt anyway.

Em... thanks?

[Pigbuster]

Yes, yes we did. Seriously, did you have a brain tumor recently?.

http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26656

There is definitely criticism there, but it doesn't seem as venomous as it is nowadays, for some reason.

Ohoho. "Now I will report this thread." Silly me. :p

[Kelster23]

http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26656

There is definitely criticism there, but it doesn't seem as venomous as it is nowadays, for some reason.

Ohoho. "Now I will report this thread." Silly me. :p

Looks like you all had more patience then or something.

[Shadowmoon]

*looks at thread*

I'm gonna say that you were more patient then. Most of you seemed to encourage him more, while others just kept saying: quit it! quit it! quit it!

Yes, he had bad grammar, and his art wasn't very good. But do you think it helps by telling him to quit?

yeah thats going to help, isn't it....

The level of patience now is lower than a couple of years ago, i'd say.:-/

[Squirminator2k]

Probably because the level of artwork has remained consistently cack and everyone has realised that telling people who draw magenta blobs in MSPaint that their art is egeanieuse (http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/ap2/language/lexicon_E.html#egeanieuse) is probably not a good idea because it only results in that person drawing even more tat.

[MtlAngelus]

But do you think it helps by telling him to quit?

Yes.

For example: Imagine a young guy, who wants to be a musician. He drops out of school, and puts all his effort into music. He composes his first song, and shows it to the people in the internet. His song sucks. Instead of encouraging him, people tell him he sucks and he should quit. So he quits. What happens? Does he go to college, graduates and becomes an excellent [insert well paid profession here] and lives happily ever after? No, he becomes a [insert average underpaid labor job] and does the job nobody wants to do for a few bucks per hour and calls it a life, probably commending himself to some deity and expecting that a life of hard work will be vastly repaid in the afterlife. Now everybody is happy, the rich people can enjoy the fruits of his hard work while he gets practically nothing out of it and yet he is happy because he believes that he is scoring points for an inexistent afterlife. :D

On the other hand, if he keeps trying, he might become a mediocre musician, and we already have plenty of those.

[Plasma]

Now everybody is happy, the rich people can enjoy the fruits of his hard work
The flaw in that plan is that it's the 'rich people' that benefit. If any of us were rich, we wouldn't be here right now, would we?
Frankly, I'd prefer a mediocre musician. Mainly because if we have enough of them, my ears mightn't bleed every time I try to watch MTV.

[MtlAngelus]

The flaw in that plan is that it's the 'rich people' that benefit. If any of us were rich, we wouldn't be here right now, would we?
Frankly, I'd prefer a mediocre musician. Mainly because if we have enough of them, my ears mightn't bleed every time I try to watch MTV.
You're richer than you think. And you do benefit from this people's work, anyway.
Also, mediocre musicians are the ones that make your ears bleed.

[yauhui]

Wow.. Agent Luke's comics are amazing.

You know, maybe in 10 year's time, that could probably sell for millions. Because there wouldn't be such a thing called lack-of-antialias-MSPaint in the future.

[Plasma]

You know, maybe in 10 year's time, that could probably sell for millions.
The worst part is that I think you might be right in that sentence! Ever go to a modern art museum?

[Kelster23]

Artists only start making a lot of money after they're dead.

[SupSuper]

Pfft, MSPaint, that's for chumps. Now using Microsoft Word, that's where the real talent's at!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/supsuper/Art/ze_word_worms.png

[FutureWorm]

I do. It was better than most people's first attempt anyway.
how do you even manage to maintain an e-girlfriend

[franpa]

Okay, i'll say it.

I'm rubbish at art, i suck badly, and my art is the worstest art in the word and it belongs in the trashcan.

There, i said it.

your art is the worst in the world because worstest is not a word >.> so you said your art was incomprehensible gibberish.

[Paul.Power]

Pfft, MSPaint, that's for chumps. Now using Microsoft Word, that's where the real talent's at!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/supsuper/Art/ze_word_worms.pngThis deserves a thumbs up or a high five or something.

[Plasma]

This deserves a thumbs up or a high five or something.
It would, if only BuffaloKid didn't use MSword competently anyway.

[AndrewTaylor]

MSpaint reference pic:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/594/digital02zw3.png
That's worse than having beginner-grade squiggly lines?

It would be better still if it was worm-shaped. That looks like a skull-cap with a head.

[Plasma]

It would be better still if it was worm-shaped. That looks like a skull-cap with a head.
I think it's only fair that a less-than-great picture was used, so that a comparison could be made, and didn't just look like one crap artist versus one great artist.


Umm, yes, that's why it's not very good. And has nothing at all to do with my artistic ability... *ahem*

[Shadowmoon]

Yes.

For example: Imagine a young guy, who wants to be a musician. He drops out of school, and puts all his effort into music. He composes his first song, and shows it to the people in the internet. His song sucks. Instead of encouraging him, people tell him he sucks and he should quit. So he quits. What happens? Does he go to college, graduates and becomes an excellent [insert well paid profession here] and lives happily ever after? No, he becomes a [insert average underpaid labor job] and does the job nobody wants to do for a few bucks per hour and calls it a life, probably commending himself to some deity and expecting that a life of hard work will be vastly repaid in the afterlife. Now everybody is happy, the rich people can enjoy the fruits of his hard work while he gets practically nothing out of it and yet he is happy because he believes that he is scoring points for an inexistent afterlife. :D

On the other hand, if he keeps trying, he might become a mediocre musician, and we already have plenty of those.


So, you think its right to tell him to quit, when he can get better?

Right......

[Paul.Power]

I think it's only fair that a less-than-great picture was used, so that a comparison could be made, and didn't just look like one crap artist versus one great artist.


Umm, yes, that's why it's not very good. And has nothing at all to do with my artistic ability... *ahem*I just want to know why you gave Kelster an incredibly pointy belly. It's a) obviously wrong and b) pretty easy to fix.

[Shadowmoon]

I just want to know why you gave Kelster an incredibly pointy belly. It's a) obviously wrong and b) pretty easy to fix.

It was intended as an example though.

[Paul.Power]

It was intended as an example though.But, as it was an example of "this is what you can achieve in Paint if you use the curve tool", it would have been a better example without the pointy belly.

[Plasma]

I just want to know why you gave Kelster an incredibly pointy belly. It's a) obviously wrong and b) pretty easy to fix.
...so says the man whose worms are a cross between a Tetris block and an uncooked sausage.

i'm not trying to be an artist here, remember.

[Paul.Power]

...so says the man whose worms are a cross between a Tetris block and an uncooked sausage.My worms deviate so far from the conventional model that they can't really be fixed (apart from that one time when Error404 suggested I change the way I draw the tail fold, which I'll admit has helped).

The worm you drew however, was pretty much on-model apart from one error that would be very easily fixed.

Okay, let me put it another way. Ever heard of a phenomenon known as the Uncanny Valley? Basically, it says that if you do something that looks realistic* then that's fine. If you do something that's stylised and unrealistic, then that's fine (so long as people can tell what it is, I guess). But if you do something that's just a bit wrong, you fall smack bang into the Uncanny Valley and you give your readers/viewers nightmares with, e.g., incredibly pointy bellies.

Actually, I think Aku has the same problem here. His work has some slight flaws in it that just rub people like Philby up the wrong way.

* No comments about "But Worms aren't realistic anyway!" please. I am going to define "realistic" here as "the Team 17 model for a Worm" that most of us work from.

[Plasma]

That's greeeeaaat! Done yet? Because I still don't intend on properly drawing worms anytime soon!

I mean, c'mon! Even Shadowmoon understands that it's not intended to be proper fanart!

[AndrewTaylor]

Perhaps we need a special profile field for the Fan Art section that you can select between "I would like to improve my art" and "I don't care what you think; I just want to whore my wares."

And "Please be careful with me; I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way."

[Metal Alex]

Yes.

For example: Imagine a young guy, who wants to be a musician. He drops out of school, and puts all his effort into music. He composes his first song, and shows it to the people in the internet. His song sucks. Instead of encouraging him, people tell him he sucks and he should quit. So he quits. What happens? Does he go to college, graduates and becomes an excellent [insert well paid profession here] and lives happily ever after? No, he becomes a [insert average underpaid labor job] and does the job nobody wants to do for a few bucks per hour and calls it a life, probably commending himself to some deity and expecting that a life of hard work will be vastly repaid in the afterlife. Now everybody is happy, the rich people can enjoy the fruits of his hard work while he gets practically nothing out of it and yet he is happy because he believes that he is scoring points for an inexistent afterlife. :D

On the other hand, if he keeps trying, he might become a mediocre musician, and we already have plenty of those.

The thing is, nobody can predict that. Albert Einstein had the lowest grades on maths in his class. Go figure.

[MtlAngelus]

The thing is, nobody can predict that. Albert Einstein had the lowest grades on maths in his class. Go figure.
I think it's worth the risk.

[Metal Alex]

I think it's worth the risk.

I'm just saying that if you said that to Einstein, the USA wouldn't have used nuclear bombs on Japan...

oh, wait...

[Paul.Power]

The thing is, nobody can predict that. Albert Einstein had the lowest grades on maths in his class. Go figure.It did help that Einstein's school was really quite *expletive deleted*, and as a result he paid it all the attention that he felt it deserved.

It's also worth pointing out that he was working in a low-end job when he published his theories.

And that he was never particularly good at maths, preferring to come up with ideas and let the mathematicians a) work out whether they were feasible and b) actually translate them into formulae and tensors.

[robowurmz]

He also copied exam answers from one of his good friends (who I can't remember the name of, but I think it's Marcel *SOMEBODY*.) and the same friend helped him with the maths of his theories, as he stated "Every step is devilishly hard!". He also suffered from a form of autism.

[Shadowmoon]

Perhaps we need a special profile field for the Fan Art section that you can select between "I would like to improve my art" and "I don't care what you think; I just want to whore my wares."

And "Please be careful with me; I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way."


But i have always been that way. Its just..... me. I get offended a lot.

And it is not going to stop. I've been that way for years, end of.

Perhaps everybody should shut up and just understand that i am SENSITIVE.

Or just read my sig.:p

[Squirminator2k]

So because you are excessively sensitive, we should give you special treatment? No. Just suck it up. Grow up, for smegs sake.

[Shadowmoon]

autism.

and this is one of the reasons why i am sensitive.

also, einstein suffered from aspergers syndrome, which is a form of autism.

[Paul.Power]

Is it me, or has Einstein become a sort of anti-Hitler? His name now gets used as an excuse for all sorts of stuff. "Rubbish at school? Don't worry - so was Einstein! ". "Don't believe in quantum mechanics? Don't worry - Einstein didn't either! ". And so on.

Seems to me that Godwin's Law needs a slight amendment.

(EDIT: It's entirely possible that I've lost the debate because I mentioned Hitler. Oh well)

[Metal Alex]

Is it me, or has Einstein become a sort of anti-Hitler? His name now gets used as an excuse for all sorts of stuff. "Rubbish at school? Don't worry - so was Einstein! ". "Don't believe in quantum mechanics? Don't worry - Einstein didn't either! ". And so on.

Seems to me that Godwin's Law needs a slight amendment.

(EDIT: It's entirely possible that I've lost the debate because I mentioned Hitler. Oh well)

If you have another example, you can say it.

[Paul.Power]

Fair enough

"Don't like socks? - Hey, Einstein hated them too! "

[SupSuper]

and this is one of the reasons why i am sensitive.

also, einstein suffered from aspergers syndrome, which is a form of autism.Oh no let's not go there.

"I suck but that's ok, it's not my fault, it's Autism/Asperger/ADD/etc!"

[philby4000]

also, einstein suffered from aspergers syndrome, which is a form of autism.

No he didn't.

Ass burgers isn't a real syndrome. It's a theoretical milder form of autism that thousands of nerds have latched on to as a convenient excuse for their lack of social skills.

[.JeT]

Ass burgers

:(

That makes me sad

[Squirminator2k]

Why ?

[Gardy Looo]

Correct. MS Paint is not excuse for bad art, nor is Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro an excuse for good art.

No I did not come back just to say this.

[AndrewTaylor]

I don't think you need an excuse for good art. I thought that was the whole point of good art?

[Metal Alex]

I don't think you need an excuse for good art. I thought that was the whole point of good art?

If you include those who say "I used photoshop, my art is good now" while it's the same crap...

[Apocalypse]

Isn't this somewhat related to "It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it"?
Meaning the heavier/professional programs don't necessary have to produce good art, it's how good YOU are with using said programs... right? :-/

[MtlAngelus]

Isn't this somewhat related to "It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it"?

Hey, this is a family forum!

[Kelster23]

Isn't this somewhat related to "It's not the size that counts, it's how you use it"?
Meaning the heavier/professional programs don't necessary have to produce good art, it's how good YOU are with using said programs... right? :-/

Well other than the fact that MTLAngelus just destroyed the top phrase, but I think you're right. You don't need a computer to create amazing pictures. Look at all the surreal paintings that were made before. And Barlowe. Just because he's awesome and I think he only did one using a Painter program.

[shadowman]

for smegs sake.

Thank God there's someone else here that watches Red Dwarf.

Also, you can't blame the paint tool for squibilly lines. It took me some time, but my mouse hand is fairly easy to control now. I am pretty sure FPS games help to improve that as well.

That, or take the Luke Skywalker approach and get your hand replaced with a mechanical one. Art would take forever to do, but after you get over poking holes in your mouse you'll do fine.

[Plasma]

but I think you're right. You don't need a computer to create amazing pictures. Look at all the surreal paintings that were made before. And Barlowe. Just because he's awesome and I think he only did one using a Painter program.
Generally, it's a bit hard to put up any awesome pictures you might've made up in this forum without a computer. Y'know, just a little.

[Kelster23]

Generally, it's a bit hard to put up any awesome pictures you might've made up in this forum without a computer. Y'know, just a little.

I just said that you don't need a computer to do the details and such, not to show them to the world :P

[MtlAngelus]

Generally, it's a bit hard to put up any awesome pictures you might've made up in this forum without a computer. Y'know, just a little.
Nonsense! You can use Pigeons for that.
edit: That, and nothing's impossible with the right amount of alcohol in your bloodstream.

[Metal Alex]

Nonsense! You can use Pigeons for that.
edit: That, and nothing's impossible with the right amount of bloodstream in your alcohol.

There, much better.

[SgtFusion]

Correct. MS Paint is not excuse for bad art, nor is Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro an excuse for good art.

No I did not come back just to say this.
I don't think you need an excuse for good art. I thought that was the whole point of good art?
I think what was meant is that if you make bad art in MS Paint, you probably would even in Photoshop (or whatever program), and if you make good art in Photoshop (or whatever program) you probably could in MS Paint.

[Metal Alex]

if you make good art in Photoshop (or whatever program) you probably could in MS Paint.

I think I dissagree with that part then. If you use the tool on photoshop, you won't on Paint...

[Star Worms]

I'm pretty much awful at drawing full stop. I'm better at drawing by hand, but even that is god-awful. What I'm much better at is technical drawing, but I suppose that's more about maths than drawing.

[Paul.Power]

I'm pretty much awful at drawing full stop. I'm better at drawing by hand, but even that is god-awful. What I'm much better at is technical drawing, but I suppose that's more about maths than drawing.Technical drawing was how I ended up getting into "proper" drawing.

I used to drive my Year 8/Year 9 art teacher crazy by getting my ruler out, measuring my still life pieces, performing scale calculations and marking guidelines out on the paper before I actually began to draw.

[super_frea]

I'm exactly like that with observational drawings and landscapes and such. I can't start unless I know exactly what I'm going to do first.

It's different with cartoons because (obviously) they are an exaggeration of reality, meaning it doesn't matter if I get the proportions slightly wrong. I still sketch them out roughly before-hand however.

[Kelster23]

I have issues drawing things 100% with my tablet. I'm thinking it's the lack of room, as in not being able to stretch out my arm as far as I can. It's just different, but the same, you know?

[[Wormz]]

i've said that, because Painting by pixel makes the thing look crappy, sheesh, see, your not supposed to trust those inner [b word] instincts, they make you posts things like this

[Star Worms]

;643894']i've said that, because Painting by pixel makes the thing look crappyNo, it doesn't. There's tons of great art in Paint. Just take a look at Paul's avatar - drawn by Philby4000 in Paint.

[shadowman]

Exactly Star Worms. Even your avatar, though emulated from the worms' origional style, gets the point across easily.

[Metal Alex]

;643894']i've said that, because Painting by pixel makes the thing look crappy, sheesh, see, your not supposed to trust those inner [b word] instincts, they make you posts things like this

THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU) is, in paint, by far, MUCH better than THIS (http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs25/300W/f/2008/072/1/6/Wormiez_by_interfirecade.jpg), apparently made in flash.

heck, even THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3pz2VgIM7E&feature=user) is better, and he uses BBQ sauce...

[TeDdywoRm]

THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU) is, in paint, by far, MUCH better than THIS (http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs25/300W/f/2008/072/1/6/Wormiez_by_interfirecade.jpg), apparently made in flash.

heck, even THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3pz2VgIM7E&feature=user) is better, and he uses BBQ sauce...
That's quite shoking.:eek: But really, I'm 100% amazed! :D

*Practices using MS Paint*

[shadowman]

Soon as I get that new videocard and I'm back on my own 'puter, I'm gonna try something in paint...

[Kelster23]

I'm going to go for Acrylic Paint. :cool:

[[Wormz]]

THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU) is, in paint, by far, MUCH better than THIS (http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs25/300W/f/2008/072/1/6/Wormiez_by_interfirecade.jpg), apparently made in flash.

heck, even THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3pz2VgIM7E&feature=user) is better, and he uses BBQ sauce...

Made in Flash? are you a 100% idiot? i made that in paint! jebus! ha ha ha! sucker doesn't know anything about flash!!111!! Apparently made in flash! LOL!, this is made in flash:

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs28/f/2008/061/f/a/Reality_Sucks___Step_1_by_Cryoma.jpg

lol...apparently made in flash...lol

[Squirminator2k]

Looks a little too antialiased for an MSPaint job to me. It's easy to make that assumption. Stop being such a douche canoe.

[[Wormz]]

now, i'm not being a douche, and that isn't drawn in paint, it's drwn in flash, it just makes me laugh that my worms painting was made in flash...

lol it still makes me laugh.

i would never guess i was the antagonist of the fight, i'm always trying to stand up for myself. especially against metalalex, he's kinda like the one that gets mad too easy., but me, i don't get mad, at least all too often...yo

[Squirminator2k]

;644309']lol it still makes me laugh.

Y'see this? This qualifies as douchebaggery. Stop it.

[Metal Alex]

;644309']especially against metalalex

If you treat people like idiots, don't expect better from that people.

Specially considering you post pictures that have near to no value, and come here trying to teach us.

By the way, why did you use Paint then, for fanart? didn't you consider it'd look too ugly and pixelated? Why not try EFFORT at it? like the fanart forum suggests?

[[Wormz]]

i've never treated you like an idiot! OMFGLOLNOWAIGFWTFBBQ!

i've harshly ever made conversation with you, but you insult me twice...

[Metal Alex]

;644312']but you insult me twice...

I don't see any insults, just things you did.

[[Wormz]]

what what

what did i possibly do? the chances are theres huge inevitablility of these posts being deleted

i make some mistakes at times, then people are all over it like your mom on a pancake, which is a funny quote not made by me

[Squirminator2k]

;644316']then people are all over it like your mom on a pancake,

If you're going to say abusive things like this then yes, these posts will be deleted. Lawks!

[AndrewTaylor]

;644316']which is a funny quote not made by me
You did post it and it's not funny. Your attitude in this thread is the antithesis of what would be conducive to a civilised discussion forum. Stop it at once.

This 'discussion' ends here.

[TeDdywoRm]

You did post it and it's not funny. Your attitude in this thread is the antithesis of what would be conducive to a civilised discussion forum. Stop it at once.

This 'discussion' ends here.
Yes. Now, let's get back on the topic.

Saying "I used MSPaint" is not an excuse for bad art. Because look, even if you may see that it makes your art look "crappy" or anything, it's your fault. Then, try improving your skills. Heck, you can even make great things with such a simple program. Just look at this one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU)(Metal Alex already posted it) Even if he used MSPaint, he can still create the Mona Lisa using it.:)

[SgtFusion]

The trouble is that most of the people who blame MS Paint for bad art can't be bothered to spend enough time on their art to make it look good.
(I once blamed MS Paint for the maps that I made looking bad, and was shown a map that looked cool that was apparently made in MS Paint. Being shown that, I was forced to acknowledge that MS Paint does not automatically make pictures bad, but I still couldn't be bothered spending 5 hours on one map.)

[Kelster23]

Granted, it does take more time to get a gradual effect. Though mouses should be a handicap type of thing, because they take longer to get used to, and are such a change from pencil and paper. Although Splapp did some great works with one! Just goes to show you need to work around handicaps.
But downloading the free programs, like GIMP or Paint.Net is an easy alternative, so "I can't afford it" isn't an excuse once you know about those two.

[Apocalypse]

I used to drive my Year 8/Year 9 art teacher crazy by getting my ruler out, measuring my still life pieces, performing scale calculations and marking guidelines out on the paper before I actually began to draw.I would be laughing my bum off if someone had actually done that during one of our classes at highschool.. haha!

So you had a sort of 'raw' drawing where you'd stuff the neater lines in between and erase the marking/guidelines? Sounds like a.. uhmm beating-around-the-bush way of drawing :confused:

[Paul.Power]

I would be laughing my bum off if someone had actually done that during one of our classes at highschool.. haha!

So you had a sort of 'raw' drawing where you'd stuff the neater lines in between and erase the marking/guidelines? Sounds like a.. uhmm beating-around-the-bush way of drawing :confused:It's how most professionals draw (not the measurements stuff, but certainly the guidelines part).

I haven't actually drawn with measurements for a while, but here's a series of examples:

http://paulpower.deviantart.com/art/In-Training-Day-1-19043058
http://paulpower.deviantart.com/art/In-Training-Day-2-19102762
http://paulpower.deviantart.com/art/In-Training-19168862

[yauhui]

I was browsing random forums on the Net and found another reason NOT to use:

"I used a 100dpi mouse, thats why my art looks bad."

Srsly, I actually made better art with my dad's 150dpi laptop mouse than my own 1800dpi desktop mouse. People need to stop giving excuses and admit that their art sucks.

[Slick]

http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/5175.jpg




Seriously, whats the point of this thread except to argue?
Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU
Skill and get this, TIME, has to be involved to make something good no matter what you make with whatever you make. Simple as that.
The point has been made. Move on with your lives.

Dinosaurs. :cool:

[TeDdywoRm]

http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/5175.jpg




Seriously, whats the point of this thread except to argue?
Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU
Skill and get this, TIME, has to be involved to make something good no matter what you make with whatever you make. Simple as that.
The point has been made. Move on with your lives.

Dinosaurs. :cool:
OH YES!:D

But still, yeah. You just have to practice, and when you make art using MS Paint, you should spent time with it. Never rush your arts. The only thing blocking it is when you get bored.:p

[Kelster23]

Welcome back, Slick.

[Shadowmoon]

Well, i'd say that if you know MS Paints tools very well, then you will create a decent picture.

And if not, then you don't create a very good picture.

Think about it, awesome drawings on MS paint posted here, and they must be awesome because the user knows the tools of MS paint very well, and is experienced at using them.

[Plasma]

Well, i'd say that if you know MS Paints tools very well, then you will create a decent picture.

And if not, then you don't create a very good picture.

Think about it, awesome drawings on MS paint posted here, and they must be awesome because the user knows the tools of MS paint very well, and is experienced at using them.
What tools? The problem with MSpaint is that it hardly has any tools! The awesome pictures are awesome because the artists have talent!

[AndrewTaylor]

The awesome pictures are awesome because the artists have talent!
This is equally true of Photoshop.

[Star Worms]

This is equally true of Photoshop.
I wouldn't put it quite equally. Photoshop is something where you need to know how to do the nifty techniques in the program, as well as having talent in the first place. There aren't many nifty techniques in Paint.

[SupSuper]

To each artist their own. It is possible for people to excel or suck at MSPaint, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Flash, Illustrator, etc. Much like it's possible for some people to excel or suck at mouse drawing, tracing, using brushes, pencils, crayons, etc. Maybe you're an artist that can master it all, anything works for you. Or maybe you pull off masterpieces with some tools and turds with others. Of course if nothing works for you, you might wanna reconsider your hobby.

But obviously, you can't just blame the tool or the method. It doesn't matter whether it's by hand, mouse, pixel, vector, whatever. If it doesn't work for you, you should know better and try something else. A proper artist will find the right tool, the one he/she can learn and understand, the one that fits with his method and style. They'll learn all its quirks and features, learn how to pull off what they want, fake great effects with the right methods. They'll master it until it becomes a third arm to them.

So no, there is no excuse for bad art but yourself. As a popular saying goes, "a computer will only do what you tell it to do".

[Kelster23]

To each artist their own. It is possible for people to excel or suck at MSPaint, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Flash, Illustrator, etc. Much like it's possible for some people to excel or suck at mouse drawing, tracing, using brushes, pencils, crayons, etc. Maybe you're an artist that can master it all, anything works for you. Or maybe you pull off masterpieces with some tools and turds with others. Of course if nothing works for you, you might wanna reconsider your hobby.

But obviously, you can't just blame the tool or the method. It doesn't matter whether it's by hand, mouse, pixel, vector, whatever. If it doesn't work for you, you should know better and try something else. A proper artist will find the right tool, the one he/she can learn and understand, the one that fits with his method and style. They'll learn all its quirks and features, learn how to pull off what they want, fake great effects with the right methods. They'll master it until it becomes a third arm to them.

So no, there is no excuse for bad art but yourself. As a popular saying goes, "a computer will only do what you tell it to do".

A proper artist also works with what they have. Even if it's just charcoal and construction paper (Which is very fun!)

[SgtFusion]

No kidding. I once drew a fairly good-looking humanoid dragon just using an orange coloured ballpoint pen (and correction fluid to correct my mistakes) on lined paper.

[Shadowmoon]

What tools? The problem with MSpaint is that it hardly has any tools! The awesome pictures are awesome because the artists have talent!

But if they didn't know how to use much of the tools very well, they wouldn't create great pictures.

And there are MS Paint tools, but not a lot. Y'know, the curve tool, paintbrush, circle tool, square tool, triangle tool, eraser, paintbrush, pencil....

[Plasma]

But if they didn't know how to use much of the tools very well, they wouldn't create great pictures.
If they didn't know how to use much of the MSpaint tools, it means that they already died and their brain has completely finished decomposing. There's no other way that someone wouldn't know how to use much of the MSpaint tools!

[Kelster23]

But if they didn't know how to use much of the tools very well, they wouldn't create great pictures.

And there are MS Paint tools, but not a lot. Y'know, the curve tool, paintbrush, circle tool, square tool, triangle tool, eraser, paintbrush, pencil....

My MS Paint doesn't have a triangle tool! It also doesn't have to paintbrush tools.

[yauhui]

there's no triangle tool, but there's certainly a polygon tool to create any shape you want.

[Star Worms]

But if they didn't know how to use much of the tools very well, they wouldn't create great pictures.

And there are MS Paint tools, but not a lot. Y'know, the curve tool, paintbrush, circle tool, square tool, triangle tool, eraser, paintbrush, pencil....

Chances are, if they don't know how to use those tools, then they won't know how to turn the computer on, let alone open Paint.

[AndrewTaylor]

If you need anything other than two brush sizes and the eraser then you can't draw. Everything else is for touching up and for diagramming.

[Kelster23]

If you need anything other than two brush sizes and the eraser then you can't draw. Everything else is for touching up and for diagramming.

Forget the brushes, you should be able to do it with the Pencil tool and the Eraser.

And on other programs, can someone tell me what the Pen Tool does? It confuses me.

[TeDdywoRm]

Forget the brushes, you should be able to do it with the Pencil tool and the Eraser.

And on other programs, can someone tell me what the Pen Tool does? It confuses me.
You can ink your pencil arts using it. Seriously.

Here's my proof! (http://teddyworm.deviantart.com/art/New-Look-inked-82986754)
If you wanna know how to use it, search it in DA. (Type paths on the search box.)

[Plasma]

You can ink your pencil arts using it. Seriously.

Here's my proof! (http://teddyworm.deviantart.com/art/New-Look-inked-82986754)
If you wanna know how to use it, search it in DA. (Type paths on the search box.)
Wow, you really seem to like drawing me!

[Kelster23]

So it fills or what does it do. I tried it on flash and I got green lines with dots. =/

[Pigbuster]

The pen tool is used to make precise, clean lines. Click somewhere, and then click somewhere else and a line will be drawn between those spots. If you click and hold, you can change the curvature of that line.

Once you make a shape and click on the first point, it should draw the whole line (instead of just being a green preview line).

Hopefully that made some kind of sense.

[Kelster23]

I'll experiment with it then, thanks guys.

[yauhui]

http://www.swmoore.com/ultimatepaint.html

MSPaint really IS wonderful.

[Shadowmoon]

Yes, from dog 96's worms gallery thread.

That picture is unbelievable.

[Metal Alex]

http://www.swmoore.com/ultimatepaint.html

MSPaint really IS wonderful.

wow, epic.

[.JeT]

http://www.swmoore.com/ultimatepaint.html

MSPaint really IS wonderful.

Old as the internet itself.

But, very very awesome nevertheless. Has always been a piece of awesome in time.

[Pigbuster]

http://www.swmoore.com/ultimatepaint.html

MSPaint really IS wonderful.

Woah, what the hell happened with the picture quality at the bottom?

Or is my computer just screwing with me...

[.JeT]

Woah, what the hell happened with the picture quality at the bottom?

Or is my computer just screwing with me...

Your computer is definately screwing with you. It might have stopped loading when it reached around the bottom...