View Full Version : The almost paridoxical benefit of the Ninja Rope
Sorry for the obscure title, but I felt it'd draw people's attentions to this.
Lately I've been putting almost too much thought into the existance of the Ninja Rope and exactly what good, or vice versa, it's done for the Worms series. You probably think I'm crazy for even daring to think that the Ninja Rope hasn't done Worms any good, but let me explain. This was going to be a really long post describing what the core gameplay of Worms is all about, but I'm not going to insult anybodies intellect and assume you all know what it is anyway.
A very large number of people love fast paced games. You only need to look at the large number of online FPS games being produced to realise this. Playing a battle of reflexes against a large number of other players is exhilarating. Worms on the other hand, is more of a slow paced game. Planning your turns may be necessary, and people take it in turns to move. It's more akin to chess than Halo is, that's for sure. But the Ninja Rope has changed all that. It can turn games into fast paced action blasters, which is kind of ironic considering that only one person can scream around the place at any given time. It's almost like people really want to play something more like Teewars (http://www.teewars.com/) (which is fantastic), and are trying to make do the best they can with the game engine Worms has. This wouldn't be a problem, were it not for it's sheer dominance over the classic way of playing. When Worms on Xbox Live Arcade came out, Team17 changed the ninja rope to prevent it being so powerful, and some people thought that Team17 were purposely trying to ruin the roping games they loved so dearly, but these people also seem to miss the point of Worms entirely.
But despite all my beef over the rope, I can't help but feel that without it, Worms would have gone nowhere. In my view, the irony is almost unbearable. People that play the roping games are keeping the game alive and popular, letting it continue to be supported by updates that benefit everybody. Without it, the community wouldn't be as strong, and entire sites are kept alive by the creation of user-made content that's almost exclusively based around roping. It's almost that by going against the entire purpose of the game, people are continuing to let it prosper.
And I just can't decide if it's the worst thing that's ever happened to Worms, or the greatest thing that's ever happened to Worms.
SgtFusion
19 Jan 2008, 18:01
I don't really think I have an opinion either way on the ninja rope. I mean, it allows for more fast paced games, but then there's no aiming involved when attacking - you just drop a weapon from the rope right next to your enemy. Having said that, I tend to enjoy roper games better than most other kinds of games, because they're (for whatever reason) nearly the only kind of game that people take the trouble to be skilled at. I would say that the rope is a mixed blessing and a mixed curse.
I don't really think I have an opinion either way on the ninja rope. I mean, it allows for more fast paced games, but then there's no aiming involved when attacking - you just drop a weapon from the rope right next to your enemy
There's no aiming per say, but you have to bounce and speed your rope accordingly for most Bazooka shots, and take wind into account too, it's at least harder than a straight bazooka shot from the ground.
nearly the only kind of game that people take the trouble to be skilled at.
People do not take any extra trouble in becoming good at roping than they do in becoming good in BnG, Elite or whatever, in fact, I'd say that nowadays people do not take any kind of trouble to become good in roping and bring it to the next level. However, what you say might be true in the lower level, there's surely more newcomers than go through the hassle of learning the rope basics to be able to play shopper sooner than they get into the ground schemes, if they get there at all.
As I said earlier, I'm sure evolution would have found another way to make our favourite strategy game feel more like an arcade if the rope wasn't in there. It's what your average online game enthusiast is after in these dire times and I guess we can all be happy the shooters and real-time FRP games haven't lured more Wormers away with their instant gratification charms.
That said, I do think more could and should be done about promoting default schemes outside leagues as well. Number one would definitely be finding a way to inform people about the new scheme variations of Elite and Intermediate. Crates have been taken out of the two schemes for league purposes, resulting in a much more balanced experience. No crates means no extra ropes for anyone, meaning you can be certain your opponents will be out of ropes after they've used the 2 or 5 they started with. That's good enough for me as far as default schemes go.
On the other hand I'm very glad Warmers exist. Closest thing to art you can get with just a worm and a string. :o
Edit: Teewars rule. I might regret saying this. My wrist will either way.
So we are just talking in theory, and in theory the rope could be either the bless or the curse of worms, or maybe both of them.
I just want to explain why the rope could be the curse of worms for a reason you haven't mentioned before.
We all agree that first person shooter and mmorpg games are the ones that get the mayority of gamers, and I'd like to point out that most of these games get replaced by a new and very similar game in a very short time, probably because it gets easy to attract the players to a new game since they get tired of the old one quite easily. Except, of course, counter strike, but lets take that as an incredible miracle.
Why is it that these action games get so many players so fast and also lose them all so fast?, it might be worth mentioning other not-so-fast-peaced games like warcraft, starcraft, age of empires, and others (not necesarily RTS) that I surely don't know about, still keep an impressively high amount of players?. Even Worms still has a decent number of active players considering it never was a really popular online game.
Maybe fast peaced games with very poor chess-like strategy and just a few skills to master not only atract players easily, but also easily drive them away after a short time, while the oposite kind of games (a wide variety of skills to learn and a deeper strategical side) tend to stay alive for a very long time. If such thing is possible, then roping could be driving away players from trying the whole game, making them stick to roping and eventually driving them away. And at the same time it could be drastically reducing the number of newcomers that stay in the game, because when someone joins wormnet for the first time and only see these strange ways of playing, (that have nothing in common with what he learned in the missions and deathmatches, and thought was the way of playing Worms) there is a big chance that after getting booted from several games because of not knowing how to play them he will leave wormnet forever.
I think roping has made worms great. I am only referring to worms 2 and worms armageddon since I never really got into wwp. I think you all are underestimating the amount of skill involved in roping. It can take months or years to really get the hang of roping. I wouldn't compare it at all to some fast pace first person shooter that becomes outdated in a number of months. Play worms 2 online and you will see players who have played for 8 years and still enjoy the strategy. They are absolutely amazing. It takes an extreme amount of practice and dedication to really master roping (and other schemes, which I am not devaluing). Most people take long breaks and come back to worms simply because roping is so much fun and requires so much skill. When I come across someone who is awesome at roping, I'm impressed because they've spent many hours practicing and they haven't given up. I used to get destroyed all day in worms 2 when I first bought it, but I kept at it. If you really get into roping you'll realize that it's an extraordinary amount of fun and that is characterized by skill.
The ninja rope is fantastic, but it's not the greatest thing that ever happened to Worms. Team17 is probably the greatest thing that happened to Worms, because there wouldn't be a Worms series like the one we have if it wasn't for them.
The ninja rope accounts for about half of the popular schemes on WA, which means that it doubles the popularity and awesomeness of the game. It has uncanny, impressive physics which inspire other games such as Teewars, and it's great fun to use. I took 4 years to get any good at the ninja rope, but even now I'm still improving.
If the ninja rope didn't exist, WA wouldn't be as popular, but I think it would still be active enough. Along with the "normal" schemes, there'd still be schemes based around bungee, parachute, mole bomb, crates, walking/jumping, and so on, and WA would still be a very cool game.
Why is it that these action games get so many players so fast and also lose them all so fast?
Because in most cases the new games that come along are just as good, if not better. Worms Armageddon is unusual because most of the newer Worms games have been missing all the things that make it so great... map editors, scheme files, online play that doesn't disconnect every second game, and a decent ninja rope which is fun enough on its own. Chances are Team17 will never make another Worms game with the replayability of WA/WWP.
I think roping came around because it's the only consistent utility for rapidly scaling the entire map in one turn. Jetpacks have a lot of potential, but having to land and start it up again repeatedly really ruins the capability there. (Read that, Dead! Infinite jetpack fuel!) Obviously, in a game where the dynamics are determined by the weapons, roping was the ONLY way to get 'outside the box'.
I've played Team17, and let me tell you the pace can be frustrating. When a worm walks left, you know he's going to get a box, you know he's going to succeed, and it's going to take half a minute. That doesn't make Team17 less fun, chute-walking is a lot more interesting to me, but I can see how roping is the premier.
Really I'm impressed at all the subtle ways that roping rules have changed and offered much more variety such as rope racing, but it's absolutely true that roping has become the defining online aspect. That's the bad thing. If you don't know what a shopper is, and can't learn, you'll probably not survive in Wormnet unless you can host. People join any game offered, and most people aren't too retarded to do them, and this is coming from my latest hosting in a week.
Oddly enough fond roping memories drew me back, but I truly miss the old days fighting in the standard scheme for rank. The chess aspect is certainly what is going to make me stay. I hope the new test features can incite some new game types.
My #1 favorite new concept is definitely Hysteria, though. If anyone ever wants to play Hysteria drop me a line :D
robowurmz
20 Jan 2008, 09:23
You've played Team17? I don't quite understand.
Anyhoo, I think that the rope is balanced enough IF it doesn't have infinite repeat swings. 3-5 swings are enough, and if you want a challenge, 1-2 swings. I think that Pro-Roper (Proper) matches should have non-infinite swings. Then you can concentrate on skill more than silly tricks.
I suppose quite a large amount of people like the "tricking" aspect of the rope, but I'm not too taken with it.
Alien King
20 Jan 2008, 09:30
You've played Team17? I don't quite understand.
Team17 is a scheme. The games played are highly strategical.
Players are frequently required to collect crates (which are dropped every go like a Shopper game), however each team only has 1 Ninja Rope.
Yeah, Team17 scheme I meant to say, sorry. And I've never been an elite roper, even when the game originally came out. I can do average damage with average roping, shadows well and dragons with luck, but I'll never wow anyone. But I am good enough that everyday shoppers are boring, and without the insanity of WxW there's not much else offered at the moment...
Actually a more skill-based roping is what I'm working on at the moment, given the new options in the latest beta.
I think much of the attraction and the popularity of WA is the possibility of so diverse gameplay. Past paced games as opposed to strategic games, and ABL shoppers somewhere in between there.
Throw being able to express some creativity in map-making in there and WA is all I really need in gaming :)
I think that Pro-Roper (Proper) matches should have non-infinite swings. Then you can concentrate on skill more than silly tricks.
I suppose quite a large amount of people like the "tricking" aspect of the rope, but I'm not too taken with it.
I don't think any serious Roper wastes his time doing tricks* in a serious 1on1 Roper, limiting the rope swings in a Roper would be silly, as there's an infinite amount of rope maps and each require a different amount of rope shots to get from x to y. You'd also destroy the variety of styles and force people to rope with the same approach, no diversity no creativity.
*Unless you mean Shadow, Spikes, Dragons, Warlocks, Kicks or similar, which are all required to be able to be competitive.
The ninja rope accounts for about half of the popular schemes on WA, which means that it doubles the popularity and awesomeness of the game. It has uncanny, impressive physics which inspire other games such as Teewars, and it's great fun to use. I took 4 years to get any good at the ninja rope, but even now I'm still improving.
I don't deny it's awesomeness, because it is awesome :P, but how many of you were originally attracted to worms by a roping scheme?, and how many by a more standard way of playing it?. I just don't know the numbers, but at least in my case and the offline wormers I know (about 15 of them) we all started playing standard games.
If the ninja rope didn't exist, WA wouldn't be as popular, but I think it would still be active enough.
In my experience roping hasn't played a role more important than the dinamite in attracting new players.
Because in most cases the new games that come along are just as good, if not better.
I still think that it is not simply because a new similar game comes out, but because they are already tired of the old game, so any new thing that promises to give you that exitement you miss will be a success. On the other hand, if people aren't tired of the old game they just won't leave it (simply because that is the natural behaviour of people) even if a new and improved one comes out. I can mention starcraft and age of empires 2 as very good examples of this (not worms because the new versions weren't even close to be as good as wa/wwp).
So if the roping aspect of worms has this darkest side in common with fast paced games, then it is surely more a curse than a bless.
I don't deny it's awesomeness, because it is awesome :P, but how many of you were originally attracted to worms by a roping scheme?, and how many by a more standard way of playing it?. I just don't know the numbers, but at least in my case and the offline wormers I know (about 15 of them) we all started playing standard games.
I'd say that 99% got into worms playing the standard way, however, there's a big number of people who stayed with worms for almost a decade because of the rope, people who would've otherwise left the game.
I firmly believe that if it wasn't for the rope Worms wouldn't have developed such a range of competitive leagues, clans et al. I lost count on how many clans had the word "Rope" in their name, or how many competitive clan and single matches back in the day were exclusively based on Rope. Out of all the weapons in the game, the Rope is probably the one Worms owes to the most (something Team17 probably hates :P), as it's the only one people would greatly miss if it was taken out whilst we could probably live without any of the others.
On the other hand, it's true that it does slow the development of new worm prospects. When a new player joins wormnet and is exposed to the Shopper scheme is immediately hooked, and he pretty much ignores the rest of the scheme for months, even other rope games like Roper or Roperace. Because of the fast pace of Shoppers these people can't stand the tempo of an Elite or Intermediate game, and fail to find the fun of said schemes, it's not until they get control of all their arsenal and are able to develop custom strategies that they start to enjoy the ground schemes, and for the most part, that time never comes to newbies, who are overwhelmed by having 100 choices per turn as opposed to roping to the crate and using the crate on the closest enemy.
redwraith
20 Jan 2008, 14:17
It's almost that by going against the entire purpose of the game, people are continuing to let it prosper.
I think it's the same with many other online games. People come up with levels/maps/schemes which don't have much in common with the default game but people love them and that keeps the online community alive. It's the same with DotA in Warcraft 3 (although I hate DotA): It keeps the online community alive but it's no Warcraft 3 anymore. Or with Jazz Jackrabbit 2 online: online games are also mostly heavily "modded" there.
The multitude of schemes concentrating on rope is also a creation of the community, and at the same time most rope games don't have much in common with the classic style of worms.
As long as most people like how a online game developped, it's okay. But if one doesn't like it and would prefer the classic style of playing a game one often has a hard time playing online. For example, if one refuses to play rope-orientated W:A schemes at all, it'll be very hard to find enough hosted games.
PS: Teewars is pretty good.
(...)there's a big number of people who stayed with worms for almost a decade because of the rope, people who would've otherwise left the game.
Or the absence of such a hooking feature (the very same rope but with a simple nerf down as no infinite shots) would have led more players to explore the whole game, and in the end, even if a few left because the game wasn't fast enough for them, the number of players staying for a longer period would be higher. Maybe the fact that these veterans kept worming is due to the rope, or maybe it is because most of these veterans didn't exclusively rope.
I firmly believe that if it wasn't for the rope Worms wouldn't have developed such a range of competitive leagues, clans et al. I lost count on how many clans had the word "Rope" in their name, or how many competitive clan and single matches back in the day were exclusively based on Rope.
How to know that the competitive aspect of the game wouldn't have developed as well (or even better) in ways different than roping if the rope hadn't been there driving away players from standard schemes?.
Out of all the weapons in the game, the Rope is probably the one Worms owes to the most (something Team17 probably hates :P), as it's the only one people would greatly miss if it was taken out whilst we could probably live without any of the others.
Therefore the rope itself is making it really hard to make a new worms game without it being as powerful as it is, and we will probably never have the chance to see how the community of a worms without infinite ropeshots would be like.
Oh wait, isn't the xbox version like this?, I honestly don't know how things are going on there. Would be interesting to see.
Because of the fast pace of Shoppers these people can't stand the tempo of an Elite or Intermediate game, and fail to find the fun of said schemes, it's not until they get control of all their arsenal and are able to develop custom strategies that they start to enjoy the ground schemes, and for the most part, that time never comes to newbies, who are overwhelmed by having 100 choices per turn as opposed to roping to the crate and using the crate on the closest enemy.
Quoted just because I couldn't have said that better.
ThMystrus
20 Jan 2008, 16:20
I, kind of, agree with Melon, ninja roping has made taken the taste of worms off. :confused:
This matter, however, is possible to change, by discussing like this,
making clans that doesn't use ropes, or hosting ropeless games.
I indeed, think that Worms is much better without all the speedy actions.
I am a slower player, can't keep up that much. :eek:
But let's hope that things some day in the near-future turn brighter on us, slower players. :cool:
Most, if not all, of the best BnGers, Eliters and Team17ers have, for the most part, been able to cope with rope games, I'm talking about the highest level though. The stereotype of Ropers not being able to handle themselves in ground or viceversa and developing prejudices due to this differentiation is really silly, and shouldn't be encouraged.
VVV
No one is going to force you to learn or enjoy something you have no interest in, however I don't think a valid opinion can be formed unless you have tried both.
ThMystrus
20 Jan 2008, 16:36
Most, if not all, of the best BnGers, Eliters and Team17ers have, for the most part, been able to cope with rope games, I'm talking about the highest level though. The stereotype of Ropers not being able to handle themselves in ground or viceversa and developing prejudices due to this differentiation is really silly, and shouldn't be encouraged.
Then what can we do? For instance, am not good at all with ropes. :eek:
Just to clear up any doubts, learning to rope is the opposite of instant gratification. Practice offline, play with experienced ropers, ask for help. It may take 6 months or a few years, but roping will come.
ThMystrus
20 Jan 2008, 17:01
Just to clear up any doubts, learning to rope is the opposite of instant gratification. Practice offline, play with experienced ropers, ask for help. It may take 6 months or a few years, but roping will come.
Opinions can't be denied, of course, but i don't like roping. :(
but how many of you were originally attracted to worms by a roping scheme?, and how many by a more standard way of playing it?.
It's not like the roping is really advertised, so it's not what attracts people to Worms. However, for a lot of people, it's what keeps them playing the game. I would call those people casual Wormers, because they're not fully into the whole Worms experience.
I still think that it is not simply because a new similar game comes out, but because they are already tired of the old game, so any new thing that promises to give you that exitement you miss will be a success. On the other hand, if people aren't tired of the old game they just won't leave it (simply because that is the natural behaviour of people) even if a new and improved one comes out. I can mention starcraft and age of empires 2 as very good examples of this (not worms because the new versions weren't even close to be as good as wa/wwp).
Well, that's the thing. It's harder to get tired of WA because it's so good. Move onto another Worms game, get bored of it after a month, and go back to WA... I've done that enough times! You asked why all those games lose their players so fast... it's because the majority of games aren't as good as games like WA and Starcraft, so it's easier to get tired of them and they're more easily replaced by the next game.
SgtFusion
21 Jan 2008, 05:30
Well, that's the thing. It's harder to get tired of WA because it's so good. Move onto another Worms game, get bored of it after a month, and go back to WA... I've done that enough times!
Aye, very true. I got WWP a while ago for the features that WA didn't have, but I got tired of it and went back to WA. One thing, of course, that helped to attract me back to WA was all the features that the Beta updates add.
HeroHolger
22 Jan 2008, 18:57
worms is one of the complexest games ever in my mind. you can play tactical-games as a mix of chess and billiard (elite) or you can play actiongames like rope. Also u can play non-agrassive games like rr or battlerace or girderrace and so on.
So i think, ropes just rised the number of gametypes :-)
its just sad, that many players play a single-scheme. in my mind the more you play allround the more you have fun with worms over a long time.
its just sad, that many players play a single-scheme. in my mind the more you play allround the more you have fun with worms over a long time.
Quoted because it cannot be overstated. :)
robowurmz
23 Jan 2008, 06:59
Wrote an essay on it;
MtlAngelus
23 Jan 2008, 10:42
An essay on the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope
To delve deeply into the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope is an exciting adventure. I really, really like the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope. Until recently considered taboo amongst polite society, the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope is featuring more and more in the ideals of the young and upwardly mobile. It still has the power to shock socialists, whom I can say no more about due to legal restrictions. At the heart of the subject are a number of key factors. I plan to examine each of these factors in detail and and asses their importance.
Social Factors
Society is a simple word with a very complex definition. The immortal and indispensable phrase ‘honesty is the best policy’ [1] failed to understand that if one seriously intends to 'not judge a book by its cover', then one must read a lot of books. While deviating from the norm will always cause unrest amongst ones peers, the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope demonstrates a coherent approach, something so lacking in our culture, that it is not recognised by all.
When one is faced with people of today a central theme emerges - the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope is either adored or despised, it leaves no one undecided. It has been said that the one thing in society which could survive a nuclear attack is the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope. This is incorrect, actually cockroaches are the only thing which can survive a nuclear attack.
Economic Factors
Increasingly economic growth and innovation are being attributed to the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope. Of course, the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope fits perfectly into the JTB-Guide-Dog model of economics.
Clearly the graphs demonstrates a strong correlation. Why is this? Obviously the market value of gold cannot sustain this instability for long. The financial press seems unable to make up its mind on these issues which unsettles investors.
Political Factors
Politics, we all agree, is a fact of life. Comparing the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope and much of what has been written of it can be like comparing playing with a puppy and singing with a blackbird.
Let us consider the words of that silver tongued orator, style icon Kuuipo Woodpecker 'Political idealists must ideally deal, for I daily list my ideals politically.' [2] What a fantastic quote. It is a well known 'secret' that what prompted many politicians to first strive for power was the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope.
Is the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope politically correct, in every sense? Each man, woman and to a lesser extent, child, must make up their own mind.
Conclusion
What can we conclude? Well, the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope must not be allowed to get in the way of the bigger question: why are we here? Putting this aside its of great importance. It fills a hole, 'literally' plants seeds for harvest, and always chips in.
I shall give the final word to star Beyonce Pfeiffer: 'I wouldn't be where I am today without the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope.' [3]
[1] Traditional - possibly first said by King Arthor... but probably not.
[2] Woodpecker - Serving The Greats - 1990 Palmerston House Publishing
[3] Everything you always wanted to know about the almost paradoxical benefit of the ninja rope, but were afraid to ask. - Issue 287 - QKS Publishing
edit: It's real. :p
robowurmz
23 Jan 2008, 16:50
So, how was my essay?
ThMystrus
23 Jan 2008, 18:10
So, how was my essay?
Overally... english is not my native langauge, so... didn't quite get it.
Otherwise, i wouldn't make it any better, well done. ;)
ThMystrus
24 Jan 2008, 13:48
Now, don't get mad if i say my opinion about roping: Roping is for sissy girls! :rolleyes:
rolf Just like girls doing skipping ropes. ;)
Joking.
CyberShadow
24 Jan 2008, 23:50
(Moderator note: thread cleaned up after a large deviation off topic.)
Paul.Power
25 Jan 2008, 10:10
I've never been a real fan of roping. I mean, I like the rope - something has to be able to get me up tall cliffs or across big gaps. But I play Worms for the strategy and the fact that you have time to think.
That reminds me, I must get into playing games of Team17 at some point.
Is it that hard to understand the topic?.
We'd have ignore all but 2 of the words in Melon's original post (benefit; roping) in order to be confused enough to answer "something has to be able to get me up tall cliffs or across big gaps".
Can this complete lack of comprehensive skills be blamed on the rope and fast paced games?, I hope so, otherwise we are doomed!.
As far as my own opinion goes, it wouldn't cause much of an effect on the regular players. Roperacers generally stick to roping more, and probably wouldn't play the game anymore without it, while regular players wouldn't be affected if it wasn't in.
Is it that hard to understand the topic?.
We'd have ignore all but 2 of the words in Melon's original post (benefit; roping) in order to be confused enough to answer "something has to be able to get me up tall cliffs or across big gaps".
Can this complete lack of comprehensive skills be blamed on the rope and fast paced games?, I hope so, otherwise we are doomed!.
Well, the topic wasn't specifially directed towards rope races, it was directed towards the ninja rope in general.
As far as my own opinion goes, it wouldn't cause much of an effect on the regular players. Roperacers generally stick to roping more, and probably wouldn't play the game anymore without it, while regular players wouldn't be affected if it wasn't in.
Well, the topic wasn't specifially directed towards rope races, it was directed towards the ninja rope in general.
Define regular player? I'm pretty certain you don't mean players who play the game regularly, or the majority of players, I assume you mean players who only play default schemes, which funnily enough, on the top level, are pretty rope dependant, specially in Intermediate and Elite, were the rope is basically your most powerful weapon, and in Team17, were it's more of a game deciding one.
I don't really know why you have started talking about Roperacers, either.
Define regular player?
Anyone who still plays the game on a regular basis.
I don't really know why you have started talking about Roperacers, either.
Oh. I meant any rope-dependant schemes.
Anyone who still plays the game on a regular basis.
But since when? Because the big majority of people who have played WA on a regular basis for more than 2 years on a regular basis will most likely miss the rope greatly.
Also note that the vast majority of games hosted in #AnythingGoes are Shoppers.
?
Oh right, I phrased that post badly. Take 'regulars' as people who don't play roping games.
They'd miss it, but they'd keep playing. That's what I'd say would happen.
ThMystrus
26 Jan 2008, 19:22
In my opinion, Team17 scheme sounds much more better than Shoppers or any scheme that the Ropers play. Opinions can't be denied, right?
Opinions can't be denied, right?
No, but by showing the inability of that particular person to get the point of anything with more than 3 lines makes that opinion meaningless. (2 lines, let's see what happens).
Did I talk specificly about roperaces? :O, I was just making fun of someone (hard to guess who, eh?) since nobody else has really added a thing about the original subject for one week, making this boring. Besides that, droped in a random line about the subject so that my post wouldn't be completely off-topic.
Back to the subject:
I don't think limiting the ropeshots to 3 would completely destroy the game, but we just don't have enoughplayers to afford losing half of them.
..I don't think limiting the ropeshots to 3 would completely destroy the game..
I agree, as a 'roper' myself, that wouldn't destroy the game at all, but give it that much more strategy let's say in an elite. That brings up the problem with wa's weapons editor; it's still too limitless. 6-second grenades and 1-shot shotguns still seem too far in the updated future.
ThMystrus
31 Jan 2008, 17:47
..I don't think limiting the ropeshots to 3 would completely destroy the game..
I agree, as a 'roper' myself, that wouldn't destroy the game at all, but give it that much more strategy let's say in an elite.
I agree, it would only make it better. :cool:
Well, as a roper that you are you clearly have no idea about playing Elite. To the guy who agreed with you, he simply cannot use the rope effectively and therefore agrees. Taking the rope out of the Elite scheme would not add strategy, it would remove a whole level of it, Rope managing is extremy tactic and important as is defending yourself from it.
Well, as a roper that you are you clearly have no idea about playing Elite. To the guy who agreed with you, he simply cannot use the rope effectively and therefore agrees. Taking the rope out of the Elite scheme would not add strategy, it would remove a whole level of it, Rope managing is extremy tactic and important as is defending yourself from it.
Who are you talking to? I didn't see anyone talk about taking the rope out of the Elite scheme.
Those people think the rope has infinite repeat swings in Elite. It doesn't. It has one [1]. The scheme is perfectly balanced the way it is now. Perfectly!
Those people think the rope has infinite repeat swings in Elite. It doesn't. It has one [1]. The scheme is perfectly balanced the way it is now. Perfectly!
Well, some donkeys and MB bombs are never wrong in any scheme. :rolleyes:
You forgot the laser beam, bonz.
Cueshark
1 Feb 2008, 13:41
If you go into AG and try and have a nice strategic game with someone you will either have a quitter or someone who just doesn't understand the etiquette.
For instance trying to host a mole shoppa ( mole war I name it ) is pointless. 9/10 games someone will quit and quitting ruins the flow of a strategy game.
Unless you are playing with friends who you know won't quit and upset the game then rope games are safer as you don't need to depend on 3 other people all staying in the game and playing by the rules to have fun.
Of course this begs the question as to why the patience levels have diminished in wormnet. Perhaps it is due to the influence of rope games.
:<
Cueshark ima have to disagree with you there man. I've been playing lotsa Moles lately and yes, there are those ppl who just join any host they see, not knowing what game it is. All you have to do is ask if they know the game and/or ask for the rules. Obviously there arent any in a mole, but they don't know that if they dont know the game ;) . So thats what I do and I would say I have about the same amount of ppl quitting as in any other game I play (wich are mostly shoppers).
oh and btw: any time you see me on WN, i'm up for a mole :)
Those people think the rope has infinite repeat swings in Elite. It doesn't. It has one [1]. The scheme is perfectly balanced the way it is now. Perfectly!
I guess an I'm idiot. Could anybody tell me when I said anything about taking the rope away from elite? And krd, I play alot of elite now - and I realize how many repeat swings it has. I was stating that being able to change that to 1, 2, etc not INFINITE could add to the scheme.
How would you ever be able to change it to 2 when it's already on 2? And how would limiting the ropeshots to 3 add more strategy to ANY of the schemes that have the rope?
How would you ever be able to change it to 2 when it's already on 2? And how would limiting the ropeshots to 3 add more strategy to ANY of the schemes that have the rope?
I meant 1-2-3 as in you can change it easily; somewhere in the weapons settings like with a shift+button. Elite? Normal? Your saying that changing the repeat swing from 2 to 1 or 3 or 4 wouldn't add anything?
It would add as much as it would take away, so tell me, how does that add to the strategy? I'm still waiting for an explanation...
Sorry for the obscure title, but I felt it'd draw people's attentions to this.
Actually, the spelling error drew my attention. :rolleyes:
Could a mod please correct it?
I am not quite sure of what knkn wants to say, but I just want to point out one thing:
You can change the number of ropeshots by changing the power of the weapon in the weapon settings simply by clicking, don't even need to hold down shift, did you know that knkn?.
And back to the topic:
I don't think that limiting the number of ropeshots would make a difference in any of the standard schemes (except T17). I just think that without infinite ropeshots roping games wouldn't be as exciting as they are, hence everything else (that means everything but roping games) would become more popular.
Besides that, I believe that limited ropeshots is much better than any other way of nerfing down the rope because it wouldn't only benefit non-roping schemes, but it would also open the door to ways of roping even ropers themselves haven't explored as much as they explored fast-tapping techniques.
vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.