View Full Version : Robot uprising: an innconvieneint truth or a load of rubbish?
Having read a book entitled How to survive a robot uprising [by Daniel H. Wilson] I have become increasing concered of a robot uprising, are my suspicions correct or am I just mad and paranoid?
it was probably a comedy book like the zombie survival guide
I'd say you're paranoid.
We write their software, we make their hardware. Currently AI largely sucks. For the foreseeable future I'd say we have no problems whatsoever.
And if we do have problems? Easy, EMP :P
wormthingy
2 Sep 2007, 13:45
And if we do have problems? Easy, EMP :P
I second that.
I think we should get some serious EMP blasters before we develop anymore AI, just to be safe :p
Also, you are both mad and paranoid :)
I don't think we ever need worry about a robot uprising.
If we did ever manage to make AI cleverer than us though, I think there would be other problems.
robowurmz
2 Sep 2007, 15:46
Just unplug them.
Or do something they aren't programmed to understand, like screaming "BANANANANANANNNANANA!" at them while eating a chicken.
They'll try to make sense of it and pop their ai brains.
Pigbuster
2 Sep 2007, 20:17
Having read a book entitled How to survive a robot uprising [by Daniel H. Wilson] I have become increasing concered of a robot uprising, are my suspicions correct or am I just mad and paranoid?
As Iguana said, that is a comedy book.
Also, I doubt a robot uprising has any chance of happening.
For a robot to rebel it has to have sentience, and we are not going to give that to every robot. What would be the point of building a sentient toaster?
If we make a supercomputer that has control over things like nuclear missiles and the like, it would be stupid to give it the ability to think and launch them if it wants to.
The only robots that I think would benefit from sentience would be artificial creatures/humans, and we aren't going to make any of them with superhuman strength or laser eyes.
Paul.Power
2 Sep 2007, 20:32
What would be the point of building a sentient toaster?"Would anyone like some toast?"
The book says that some mad person has to make evil AI at some point though I do suppose the book was a bit funny.
anyway, how would a robot uprising happen? is it possible?
P.S. most people make robots for helping in military defence and things, but what if somone had an accident while programing some kind of master computer and it was evil, and commanded all sorts of robots that the world has become naturaly intergrated with? Is this paranoid as well? Am I going mad? Should I shut up now?...
Paul.Power
2 Sep 2007, 20:56
On the evidence of some of your previous posts, "going" doesn't enter into it...
We haven't even built enough robots to be able to take over a general store, let alone the entire world!
Anyway, not a chance! AI isn't even barely complex enough for that to happen.
The only robots that I think would benefit from sentience would be artificial creatures/humans, and we aren't going to make any of them with superhuman strength or laser eyes.
I'm fairly sure the US military are working on similar projects. I know for a fact they're working on body armour which gives the wearer superhuman streagnth, and building laser weapons, so it shouldn't be too big a leap.
most people make robots for helping in military defence and things, but what if somone had an accident while programing some kind of master computer and it was evil, and commanded all sorts of robots that the world has become naturaly intergrated with? Is this paranoid as well? Am I going mad? Should I shut up now?...
I must admit, my knowledge of programming is limited to PIC factory, but I'm fairly sure that's an impossible scenario. Given the higely complex programmes 'sentient' robots would presumably require, it would have to be one **** of a mistake to make it into an evil, revolutionary, human-killing machine.
And even if it did, what could it do, frankly. This isn't I bloody Robot, it isn't going to make all your electical appliences try to kill humans. :p
OH NO! IT ALREADY HAPPENED!!! (http://www.transformersmovie.com/)
Pigbuster
2 Sep 2007, 23:22
I'm fairly sure the US military are working on similar projects. I know for a fact they're working on body armour which gives the wearer superhuman streagnth, and building laser weapons, so it shouldn't be too big a leap.
Those are things that are meant to be used, though, not to think for themselves. They aren't meant to be used by an artificial mind.
We aren't going to give a robot that delivers the newspaper the strength to rip off someone's arm.
Any robot being used for military purposes, which WOULD have weaponry, would either have a human controlling it, or there would be many procedures that could stop it if something goes awry.
wormthingy
2 Sep 2007, 23:51
The book says that some mad person has to make evil AI at some point though I do suppose the book was a bit funny.
anyway, how would a robot uprising happen? is it possible?
P.S. most people make robots for helping in military defence and things, but what if somone had an accident while programing some kind of master computer and it was evil, and commanded all sorts of robots that the world has become naturaly intergrated with? Is this paranoid as well? Am I going mad? Should I shut up now?...
ok. awnser to 1.
yes it was a comedy book.
awnser to 2.
some mad person has to make evil AI at some point
there.
awnser to 3.
Congratulations! thats roughly the script of terminator 3!
you are paranoid. you are going mad. yes you should.
(i was paranoid about the number 23 for a day or two :p , srsly, go see it. you'll have the time of your life when you find out your name makes 23. your birthdate, your pet's name even. )
The book says that some mad person has to make evil AI at some point though I do suppose the book was a bit funny.
Look, by the time we've become advanced enough to have robots that are capable of taking over, you'd be much more worried about an evil guy being able to send the entire planet into the sun in an instant!
Anyone who looks at CJH's post history and has an ounce of common sense will realise he's a terrible gimmick
You're all wasting precious words
farazparsa
3 Sep 2007, 01:44
Humanity wouldn't be stupid enough to give robots full inteligence...would it? (http://scientology.org/)
Humanity wouldn't be stupid enough to give robots full inteligence...would it? (http://scientology.org/)
BURN. :p
I'm sure the robots would only be 'smart enough' to just give them all the money they would ever earn. :rolleyes:
[UFP]Ghost
3 Sep 2007, 04:20
You have been warned....all of ya.
Revert to the ways of the Amish or suffer the consequences.
If we did ever manage to make AI cleverer than us though, I think there would be other problems.
I don't understand how something could create something cleverer than itself.
I don't understand how something could create something cleverer than itself.
Well it really depends what you mean by 'cleverer'. If it takes me longer to solve a simple mathematical problem than someone else - are they cleverer? Most people would say yes, in which case, calculators are cleverer than us, and we created them.
By that logic, yeah. But I meant it a bit different.
Say we take 'cleverer' to be the complexity of the maths problem. If you don't know the rule to solving it yourself, you can't program the robot to do it for you, so it that sense you can't make it cleverer than yourself.
I think what we mean by creating something cleverer than ourselves is creating something with the capacity to learn
robowurmz
3 Sep 2007, 07:31
"Would anyone like some toast?"
Oh, no! Please not that! Give me my fourteen-pound-lump-hammer! And a key to the garbage disposal!
farazparsa
3 Sep 2007, 07:49
I think what we mean by creating something cleverer than ourselves is creating something with the capacity to learn
A robot can only learn so much. The human brain is organic; therefore it has limitless possibilities.
The human mind can DISCOVER. A robot would not know if something new he found is a new concept or just part of his daily routine.
A robot can only learn so much. The human brain is organic; therefore it has limitless possibilities.I don't see why, theoretically, that is the case though?
From the point of us designing the robot, I'd be inclined to agree, but not otherwise.
*Splinter*
3 Sep 2007, 09:26
A robot can only learn so much. The human brain is organic; therefore it has limitless possibilities.
So make the robot brain organic :rolleyes:
I don't understand how something could create something cleverer than itself.
I don't see why not. Why wouldn't it *theoretically* be possible to build an AI with better problem solving abilties than even our creative minds, or even the ability to learn?
A robot can only learn so much. The human brain is organic; therefore it has limitless possibilities.
I don't see why that should nessesarily follow. When you get down to it, our brians are made up of billions of tiny nurones which make connections and pass electical signals (although I'm sure that's a gross simplification). If someone somehow managed to built an AI as complex, why should that it were made of silicon rather than protein make it less less able?
farazparsa
3 Sep 2007, 10:15
Because the bottom line is, the robot would learn from our actions and we would teach it what we know. How exactly would the robot be able to distinguish from 'new' or 'tried?'
Anyone who looks at CJH's post history and has an ounce of common sense will realise he's a terrible gimmick
You're all wasting precious words
Says the guy currently represented by a smilie face clapping and saying "bravo!"!!!
so? everyone keeps skeletons in their...I mean makes mistakes once in a while!
and might I ask, have any of you actualy read How to surrvive a robot uprising? or seen it? I have but Im not sure any of you are going to belive me now...:(
[UFP]Ghost
3 Sep 2007, 12:47
Why do you guys all assume that in the future robots we build will not beale to think for themselves and discover things? At the present they can't but then the brilliant minds also told us we shoudl ahve run out of gas already so many times...
Ghost;603660']Why do you guys all assume that in the future robots we build will not beale to think for themselves and discover things? At the present they can't but then the brilliant minds also told us we shoudl ahve run out of gas already so many times...
but those two things you talked about running out of gas and robots being able to think for themselves seems pretty much unrelated to me...
Ghost;603660']Why do you guys all assume that in the future robots we build will not beale to think for themselves and discover things? At the present they can't but then the brilliant minds also told us we shoudl ahve run out of gas already so many times...
So far I'd say that we've fallen short of a lot of 'predictions'. Not ahead of. For a robot to think for itself a human has to work out how to write a piece of software which can think for itself.
I personally doubt it will happen in our lifetimes, if it ever happens at all. And if it does happen, why would that lead to an uprising? Do you seriously think anyone would allow that sort of AI to control weaponry?
In military attacks mabey...
I don't think even the US military are that stupid.
I dare say they'll probably use some sort of AI, that can work out the best way to attack/destroy something, but not a programme that can think entirely for itself.
Well, the show Robot Wars will be more interesting. :cool:
AndrewTaylor
3 Sep 2007, 13:13
As Iguana said, that is a comedy book.
I believe the foreword says "you probably found this book in the humour section. Let's hope that's where it belongs". Good book, I thought.
I don't understand how something could create something cleverer than itself.
My parents did.
Still, even if we are sure at this point that it isn't going to happen we have to be able to fight back, or even stop it from happening, if you don't then, as said in the book, YOU'RE TERMINATED.
Seeing how morality is something that is hardwired into us and so deeply tied to emotion, it would not make sense to an objective observer, like a robot.
They could be programmed to emulate emotion and respond accordingly to human behavior, like empathy when somebody is hurt. They wouldn't actually be feeling it, but it would seem accurate enough to us, unless of course we discover exactly how to mimmic our emotions digitally, but that seems to be very far off. Now, aslong as our emotions are pure chemical reactions and not the part of some mysterious soul, it shouldn't be impossible to recreate. But damn hard however, seeing how it's so difficult for us to understand it to begin with.
You could easaly create something more clever than us though. Robots would have near infinite memory and flawless recall. Dynamically be able to understand and learn games like chess without it being hard-coded into their system, and perhaps even invent games of logic themselfs.
I think the only limitation will be that of emotions. Having them invent things that have usefull purposes is not hard too imagine, but I doubt they would create any kind of art unless told to, and how to do it.
Off Topic Edit: When it comes to technology, I think that a robot uprising is something much less important to worry about than what concequences technology is going to have on us humans. Will we live our lives in virtual reality where our senses are fooled into beleiving we are actually there? Digital drugs? If you left a seemingly perfectly real Virtual Reality world, how could you be sure that real world is real and not yet another Virtual Reality. I think VR is going to create lots Matrix paranoia. :p
AndrewTaylor
3 Sep 2007, 14:24
You could easaly create something more clever than us though. Robots would have near infinite memory and flawless recall.
Really? Damn sure my computer can't do either of those things.
Really? Damn sure my computer can't do either of those things.
Well, maybe not for storing blueray movies on, but for code. Code takes almost no space.. I think if you stored a long string, like 2 gigabytes worth of pi, it would be able to recall more digits correctly than you could :p
Maybe not perfect, but clearly far superior. And that's what counts, right?
AndrewTaylor
3 Sep 2007, 14:31
This is true, although I don't think that would help it much in a survival situation...
UnKnown X
3 Sep 2007, 15:11
This is true, although I don't think that would help it much in a survival situation...
Well, considering the Japanese are the ones who generally create robots, you could combine that with their bizarre game shows and you could get anything. You never know.
I say we should moniter robot behavior to see if the chances are likely. lets start by filling in a quiz about our computers:
1: do the keys on your keyboard get stuck and you hear what sounds like a laugh from your computer?
2: does your computer show you unwanted content? E.G.: a chance to win a large red button with a speaker in it that says "That was easy!"
3: Does your computer make strange messages come up? eg: Alert: user must die!!!
4: do you find your discs shreaded to peices after inserting them into the disc drive?
5: have you found a strange evil circitury in your computer case?
if you have seen any of the five symptons, or if you are just plain paranoid, then contact CE [Computer Exterminators] at www.killthatdangcomputer.com
most stuff mentioned in this thread reminds me of most of the NES and SNES megaman games ;) (including a particular Zelda Classic quest, but that is not a official quest)
Extract from book:
Breifing
If popular culture has taught us anything, it is that someday mankind must face and destroy the growing robot menace.
In print and on the big screen we have been deluged with scenarios of robot malfunction, misuse, and outright rebellion. Robots have descended on us from outer space, escaped from top-secret laboratories, and even traveled back in time to destroy us.
Today, scientists are working hard to bring these artificial creations to life. In Japan, fuzzy little real robots are delivering much appreciated hug therapy to the elderly. Children are frolicking with smiling robot toys.
It all seems so innocuous. And yet how could so many Hollywood scripts be wrong?
So take no chances. Arm yourself with expert knowledge. For the sake of humanity, listen to serious advice from real robotics experts. How else will you survive the inevitable future in which robots rebel against their human masters?
http://www.robotuprising.com/home.htm.
Alien King
3 Sep 2007, 16:16
Just ask them to divide one by 0 :D.
Alternatively, give them a logical paradox or something to make them crash.
Or shoot them. The choices are endless.
I find the concept of a Robot Uprising highly unlikely. Especially since a robot would only operate within its programming.
AndrewTaylor
3 Sep 2007, 16:23
Shoot them? You're aware they're generally made of metal, right?
Alien King
3 Sep 2007, 16:26
Shoot them? You're aware they're generally made of metal, right?
Short of being actually desigened and built to survive it, I don't think any robot would be able to run efficiently after being given a new ventilation system from any effective Assault Rifle.
And yes, the bullets would penetrate unless the robots were made of very thick and strong metal.
Or even if they are, there's armour piercing rounds and anti tank guns and all sort of stuff I'm sure could blast through a heavily armoured robot. This isn't Dr. Who y'know.
Alien King
3 Sep 2007, 16:47
I also find it very hard to believe that no improvement in weapons would be made. So you know, shooting through metal in 50 years time isn't going to be very difficult.
Besides, I believe an Atomic War is more likely than a Robot Uprising, so why the hell are we worrying?
yappydog
3 Sep 2007, 18:05
Shoot them? You're aware they're generally made of metal, right?Cybermen could be stopped with gold bullets, and they were almost all metal.This isn't Dr. Who y'know.Ooops.
Pickleworm
3 Sep 2007, 18:37
Let me just write up a million billion words here on why a robot uprising is a stupid concept
3 Laws of robotics, anyone?
3 Laws of robotics, anyone?
Stop watching I, robot!
Pigbuster
3 Sep 2007, 20:23
Of course! If the robots ever rebel, all we have to do is get Will Smith to take em out!
Him and his awesome Converse™ sneakers. :cool:
But why would the robots rebel anyway? It's not like they have anything to rebel about.Stop watching I, robot!
That's the worst placed comma I've ever seen. Worse than Aku's 'American Moron' incident, even. :p
Alien King
3 Sep 2007, 21:22
Worse than Aku's 'American Moron' incident, even. :p
But nowhere near as amusing or long lasting. :)
Ok fine!
Stop watching 'I, Robot', robot!
3 Laws of robotics, anyone?
You do realise the three laws of robotics are completely fictional and could never, ever, not in a million years, be realised in reality, right? What with them being made of words and not code?
[UFP]Ghost
4 Sep 2007, 03:04
I think it's not robot uprising we have to worry about but dependency.... one day we will be dependent completely on computers. Then one evil individual will use an E.M.P. and take over us as our lack of activity will leave us weak and defenseless.
SupSuper
4 Sep 2007, 03:48
Three good reasons why a robot uprisal is extremely unlikely:
1. Emotions: robots don't feel betrayed, don't feel used, don't feel whatever. Even if we did code them to learn, code them to have emotions, we'd still have to code the specific feeling to want to take it back on us, which is just stupid.
2. Group Effort: for every effort to join in a combined robot uprisal, you'd need at least some common form of communication. Given there are hundreds of different languages and thousands of coding methods, the chances of every robot having completely interoperable code is jack squat.
3. Foolproof: Even if you ignore all of the above, all robots are coded by humans. Therefore they're all subject to human error, whether in the form of internal flaws or limitations. There is no such thing as foolproof. However, there is still such a thing as failsafes and overrides.
I think a much more common and much more worrisome problem is human error. Take this simplified example:
if (getConfirmation(passcode) = true) { Silo.Launch(Payload.Nuclear); }
farazparsa
4 Sep 2007, 05:55
Robot Chicken prevails:
Rosey killed George Jetson because she was made to keep the place clean and he always made it dirty. Therefore, robots will kill/enslave humans to keep them from destroying the planet.
That's just a load of bull...
AndrewTaylor
4 Sep 2007, 10:22
Robot Chicken prevails:
I built a robot chicken once.
Really.
Really!
That's just a load of bull...
Nope, it's a load of RED BULL[TM]!
Imagine it: a Red Bull[TM] killing machine!
andrewtatylor said:I built a robot chicken once.
Really.
Really!
I belive you, besides what is the point of having an ordinary yolk egg when you can just get a metal one full of battery fluid?
shadowman
6 Sep 2007, 00:47
You're just one of those people that thinks the world will end tomorrow.
Frankly, these threads you're making are annoying.
In any case, a robot uprising seems extreamly silly too me, something children worry about. It's the scientific alternative to ghost stories.
You're just one of those people that thinks the world will end tomorrow.
Frankly, these threads you're making are annoying.
No, they are hillarious, thats why I make them.
I don't see why not. Why wouldn't it *theoretically* be possible to build an AI with better problem solving abilties than even our creative minds, or even the ability to learn?
You could code up a program that was able to learn, yes. But when it came down to teaching it stuff yourself you wouldn't be able to teach it any more than you knew yourself. You could tell it to go out into the world and learn more stuff, but then you wouldn't be doing it anymore, it would.
And then there are the current limits in storage... thinking about it in terms of computers, you could give a robots several terabytes, possibly even petabytes of storage space these days, but it would still be pretty limited. Imagine how much space you'd need simply for the extremely complex operating system you'd have to give this thing.
Alien King
6 Sep 2007, 19:24
And then there are the current limits in storage... thinking about it in terms of computers, you could give a robots several terabytes, possibly even petabytes of storage space these days, but it would still be pretty limited. Imagine how much space you'd need simply for the extremely complex operating system you'd have to give this thing.
Even if you taught it to "forget" (delete) really insignificant things, it would still need much more memory than we are capable of producing today.
farazparsa
7 Sep 2007, 00:14
It's a good thing we'll be dead by the time the governnoobs will even consider doing something like this.
Oh an our kids, well it's gonna take some effort so if we can all raise little Duke Nukems:
http://insertcoin.hautetfort.com/images/medium_Duke_Nukem_004.jpg
...They'll be fine! :) Problem solved.
It's alright, if robots take over the world, we'll just hire a Transformer, or reprogram a Terminator.
just pay Dr. Light to build a Megaman, problem solved.
Pigbuster
7 Sep 2007, 03:34
We can only do that when it's the year 20XX, though.
Pickleworm
7 Sep 2007, 03:54
Robot Uprisings are possible.
robots cant think tho... there limited to doing what there programmed to do... killer robots are possible but i doubt anyone with enough knowledge could make a robot that learns and starts hating humans because of what it "thinks".
obots cant think tho...
Did you say O bots? as in the donut bot? can't think eh?...Your talking about an oridinary donut arn't you?
*Splinter*
7 Sep 2007, 17:26
No, they are hillarious, thats why I make them.
No, they aren't
No, they aren't
Well, I think they are, and you must, because you keep coming here!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q3C5sc8b3xM
I've changed my mind. We're all going to die.
Cisken1
12 Sep 2007, 17:26
OH GOD NO!!! They'll WALK over us!
I'd pay to see a soccer game being played between two teams of thoose robots. Would be MUCH more exciting than boring ol' humans playing.
I'd pay to see a soccer game being played between two teams of thoose robots. Would be MUCH more exciting than boring ol' humans playing.
The two things I hate: football and cheating.
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