Going out with a bang?

[SupSuper]

A random thought Paul and me had. With the whole connundrum going on about the sad state the community has become, which doesn't look like it's leaving this time, what about... giving up the charade?

Tell them about everything. About OD. All that went on here. All the good stuff, all the bad stuff. Forumsville, 17's Company, 72 Ways to Die, fads and various other discussions. All the fun we've always had. Because, think about it, OD is the way the forum should be. The community should be.

Sure it's mostly boring and stale lately, but we never got into any trouble here. All the discussions are friendly and relatively spam free. We've had friendly, serious, silly and intelligent discussions. We started lots of stuff in here because we've always felt the rest of the community could't handle it.

So, since they clearly don't get our point, let's show them. Let's show them what we mean. What is our idea of a proper community. It's not like they're any better not knowing, and what do we have to lose anymore? The whole place's already gone to hell, if they still don't get it after this, then there's nothing more to do.

Discuss.

[Slick]

I'm up for it... if we make another forum thats hidden away from everyone. :p

I doubt it will work. I mean... really. It might be worth a shot.
But I'd hate to see what little we do have, go.

[SomePerson]

I was thinking that too. OD should never EVER be open for them to post in, but when this forum dies I was thinking myself that we should unhide this forum and show them all what was...

However, I don't think this forum is ready to die yet. I don't quite want to abandon ship quite yet. Maybe this idiocy will pass...

Actually, does it even matter what idiocy there is outside of OD? Can't we just stay around in here and ignore the rest? I think our trying to preserve the rest is what has disheartened so many of us. If we just stopped caring about the rest of the forum, what then? I mean, if we move, will any of us still care about fanart and OO anyways?

[bloopy]

Tell them about everything. About OD.

Seems pointless to me. I think the only people who'd care are the ones who'd hold a grudge because they weren't part of it, and there's no reason to do it for them.

[thomasp]

I think this forum still has a bit of life left in it. And opening up OD to "The Others" might well be a bad move - just look at the garbage that builds up in FanArt or Online Orgy when the usermods turn their backs for 5 seconds. All those spam games would suddenly appear in here, and there'd be a whole load of nonsense with said people unable to contain their excitement about finallly having a place to spam.

That would be the final nail in this forum's coffin.

[Paul.Power]

Okay, I'll admit I was depressed last night.

I'm not suggesting actually letting them in, y'understand. But it's hard work trying to tell people what they're missing when a lot of what you want to show them is off limits.

[thomasp]

Trouble is, there will then be a mini-revolt if we reveal that there is an "elitist" secret forum where weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff goes on ;)

We either open OD up for all, or keep it as it is - I don't think there's a Middle Ground (unless we close it to new posts and make it "read only" for all)

[Xinos]

The only possitive effect it could have is that they start behaving better in hopes of being let into OD. So, letting them know there is a hidden forum for 'nice people' might get them to stop spamming. OR there will be an outrage, either way is just as likely :p

[thomasp]

I personally would go with outrage. Especially from some like Plasma.

[SupSuper]

I suppose it's probably not a good idea to just expose it all just like that (I didn't suggest opening up OD to the public, just talking about), but like Paul said, showing them what good we've managed to pull off on our own might be... interesting. We can always resort to ye olde "we came up with it in private" excuse. :p

As an example, there seem to be a lot of people that take Futureworm for a bit of an annoyance because of his rather crude posts outside of OD, so I wonder how they'd react to the card thing.

[FutureWorm]

As an example, there seem to be a lot of people that take Futureworm for a bit of an annoyance because of his rather crude posts outside of OD
which is really quite funny, given how obnoxious everyone else is

[bonz]

Hell no! Don't spoil OD.
It's one of the last few sane parts of the T17 forum. (The other is the announcement forum.)

Let's just ignore the idiots outside and invite a few of the more intelligent and older people every now and then to keep OD going.

Frankly, what do you expect when 12 year old kids post in the fan-art thread?
I'm 26 years old and although I can be childish at times, I don't really have a connection to them anymore.
Most of us are a different generation.

[thomasp]

Hell no! Don't spoil OD.
It's one of the last few sane parts of the T17 forum. (The other is the announcement forum.)

You should see what the Moderation forum's like :p Andrew has recently been winding volcadmin up about how the T17 shop design doesn't fit in with the rest of the site.

[Worm Mad]

Okay, here's what I suggest. I doubt many of you will go for it but it's how I'd suggest going about things.

The Team17 Forum is like a small rural village that slowly developed into a sprawling metropolis. The people in OD are like the original inhabitants who want to go back to the golden days of green fields before the council put in the motorway and all those ugly blocks of flats. Not to mention the pollution and the noise, with all those young hooligans on the street. Of course, a sensible thing for the old inhabitants to do would be to move to another countryside village and leave the city to the new kids on the block. But they'll never do that as their houses are here. Sod the fact that their house is about to be flooded or melted by a giant volcano. They were here first and they intend to be here till the bitter end.

Okay, I'm not sure where I was going with that. The point is - too many people in OD associate THE FORUM with the good times. And yes, it's true, Worms and Team17 are what brought us together. But don't kid yourself. Don't fool yourself for a moment. THE FORUM wasn't what made the good times. WE were. It's like a family who want to leave a house but can't because of "So many memories". It's whether you choose to associate the memories with the house or the people who lived there. Because, you know what, the forum means nothing to me. When I said "You'll never leave", I thought I meant the forum but we all leave the forum. But together, we formed a community, friendships. It's that community that you'll never leave. It's a flame of our shared experiences and we can carry that with us anywhere.

Leave the Team17 Forum behind. It's starting to destroy you. I look at threads and see respected members of our community turning to bitterness and anger and it saddens me. You know why? Not because of all the new people behaving like buffoons but because I know you and you're so much better than that. So, leave the Forum behind. It doesn't mean they've won. At the end of the day, it's just a building. We can find a new one, and I know just the place.

Because Forumsville was more than just a fun collaboration, it symbolised us - as a united community. So, that's what we should call the new forum and it can have various different sections for us to discuss whatever the hell we want. We won't have to live in a cramped space, anymore, we can stretch out as our hearts content. Pineapple juice on tap, people, new furniture! But the surroundings are unimportant. The fact is that we'll all be there and we can make a new start. This time, we won't be brought together by a videogame, we'll be brought together by our combined experiences and our friendship.

And if you want to leave a parting gift, before you leave this old city, we can make one last thread, detailing our achievements but also our mistakes, so that the new inhabitants can learn from us. Whether they choose to follow that advice, though, is up to them. All we can do is offer them the benefit of our wisdom so that they can develop in their own way. Maybe leave them another thread too, so that if they ever need us, they can get in touch. But that's it. We stop babysitting them, we stop telling them what to do. Give them the house keys and let them treat the building as they see fit. Because at the end of the day, all they have is a collection of bricks... what we have, that's a community.

[AndrewTaylor]

You should see what the Moderation forum's like :p Andrew has recently been winding volcadmin up about how the T17 shop design doesn't fit in with the rest of the site.

I think, generally, as what you might call a rule of thumb, winding up the admins is a good idea.

[Zero72]

I'm on the "no drastic moves yet; I'm not calling it quits" train of thought.

[SomePerson]

I'm on the "no drastic moves yet; I'm not calling it quits" train of thought.

I hear ya.

I mean, where would we be without the 100% off-topic thread? We could try to start a new one, but it just wouldn't be the same... I don't see how moving and ignoring this forum is any different at all than just residing in OD and ignoring everything else...

Although if we move we can get K^2 back...

[Slick]

Nicely said WormMad. My only complaint, is, even though it drives me nuts... I think we need the swarming masses of stupidity. Because if it would only be "us", we would get bored rather fast. :p
Personally, that's why I think the Dream17 forum never seems to be... erm... entertaining? If it's just us, we would almost need the "others" to pick on to have something else to talk about.

Sad as it is, we need them.

[SupSuper]

Well, Dream17 has K^2. That's a start. :p

[Worm Mad]

I'm on the "no drastic moves yet; I'm not calling it quits" train of thought.

Well, I was positive that you wouldn't be quitting. Personally, I can see you staying even if everyone else left. You've always said you'd stay here till the bitter end.

I don't see how moving and ignoring this forum is any different at all than just residing in OD and ignoring everything else...

Doesn't anyone ever feel cramped having to discuss everything in one forum? No? Just me, then. Also, I just feel there's too much bad feeling on the forum. Being on a seperate forum would focus people less on sniping at others and more on the community activities that everyone supposedly misses.

My only complaint, is, even though it drives me nuts... I think we need the swarming masses of stupidity. Because if it would only be "us", we would get bored rather fast.
Personally, that's why I think the Dream17 forum never seems to be... erm... entertaining? If it's just us, we would almost need the "others" to pick on to have something else to talk about.

Sad as it is, we need them.

You know, this is one of the main reasons I left before. I got fed up with the obsession people in OD had with just mocking everyone outside of it (whether or not some of this mocking was justified). It just seems pretty sad to me that you'd all moan about how it was in the old days and how the newcomers ruined it, only to then turn around and admit that you can't entertain yourselves or organise any community projects and the only thing you can do these days is pick on other people.

Because as far as I remember, that wasn't what the old days were all about.

PS: As a side-note, I think the reason Dream17 isn't as successful, is that it still makes the focus Team17. There's no progression there.

[Slick]

I agree with what your saying WM, don't get me wrong. But I was never in the 'olden days'. And the only time I see this forum (OD) actually pull together as more of a community, is when we're messing with other people.
I'm not saying it's right, it's just what I've observed.

[Pickleworm]

Doesn't anyone ever feel cramped having to discuss everything in one forum? No? Just me, then. Also, I just feel there's too much bad feeling on the forum. Being on a seperate forum would focus people less on sniping at others and more on the community activities that everyone supposedly misses.


I don't think discussion is active enough to warrant multiple forums, what would they be? I don't think spreading out OD is a good idea.

The only reason I can think of to move to an offsite forum is so we can invite our other good non-t17 friends to join our community and enrich it that much more. Honestly I haven't seen a soul to leave OD to in a dog's age, the last one being MrBunsy. This is probably because of the state of OO/FA, the two main community-building forums, which aren't really great forums and I don't think they would make the kind of person we are looking for go "MAN! I wanna post in THAT!" We are the only members of the forum with the power and knowledge to change that and if we leave we're leaving the place for dead, I imagine.

I don't know what I think yet. There's just a few more points there to throw around.

[Xinos]

Well, nobody is trying to stop you from comming back too see what's going on here and make the occational post. If we move and someone can't decide, pick both!

Nicely said WormMad. My only complaint, is, even though it drives me nuts... I think we need the swarming masses of stupidity. Because if it would only be "us", we would get bored rather fast. :p
Personally, that's why I think the Dream17 forum never seems to be... erm... entertaining? If it's just us, we would almost need the "others" to pick on to have something else to talk about.

Sad as it is, we need them.

I thought it was the lack of idiots (more so than we were that is) that made the good ol' days so good.

[worMatty]

Carry on the discussion in this thread (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33720)?

[FutureWorm]

Carry on the discussion in this thread (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33720)?
perhaps thomas or andrew could merge them

[AndrewTaylor]

Perhaps. But that does make things needlessly confusing. Much easier to close one.

[FutureWorm]

Perhaps. But that does make things needlessly confusing. Much easier to close one.
there are some damn good posts in this thread that could be merged into the other one without throwing off its flow

[worMatty]

But context would then change. Best to close one and carry on discussion in the other, but post in that one linking to this one, saying it's essential reading. I suggest closing this one because the other one addresses the whole forum, not just OD.