AndrewTaylor
21 Mar 2007, 18:42
Since i have been temp banned and can't contact thomasp. I will send you this and you can forward it to him. Since the UK also has laws againts racism and the game as a racist flag the game should therefore be band and soon will. I do not know if you remember a game called Mortyr which is a Nazi theme based game it was BAND. Doing so to this game would not be hard. Thank you for your time.
I'm quite proud of what I did next. Normally I just accept things people say and try to counter them, but recently I've taken to actually checking them, and I'm finding an alarming number of them turn out to be lies.
It isn't possible for a flag to be inherently racist (except perhapsthe old South Park flag). Mortyr is something of a special case. It was banned IN GERMANY for containing Swastikas (and in Greece as part of the blanket ban on all games). The Nazi symbol has been illegal in Germany since the end of WWII, and has only recently been allowed to be reproduced, and then on the condition that its use is unambiguously anti-Nazi. W:A does not include a swastika flag and so would not fall under the same ban. Interestingly, I believe games featuring violence against humans are also illegal in Germany, so Worms is one of few games that ARE allowed there.
The UK has laws against racial hate crime and racial discrimination, but to my knowledge there are no laws here or anywhere else against reproducing symbols used by racist groups other than the Nazis -- heck, we allow the BNP to run for government -- so given that you can't spell the word "banned" (which is probably going to become very ironic very fast), I'm going to have to ignore your legal advice for the time being. And I'm not going to waste Thomas' time by bothering him with this nonsense either.
Now be honest:
Are you Jack Thompson?
No I am not Jack Thompson. Mortyr was banned from almost every country with racism laws. The Rebel flag is also in the same classification and can only be used in educational things and in the privacy of your own home. Since in this case none off those apply, therefore making the game illegal. And as far as legal advice just mentioning Torrents, there is no difference between that and saying p2p because they have the same concept. I did not mention how to use them, where to get them or anything else about it. I also mention that you should check in your country to see if it legal and that you need proof that you originally bought the software such as a reciet. Now if I gave links and/or saying how to use them or names of the programs, then I would accept the infraction points, but since this is also not the case I therefore did not violate any forum rules.
He seems pretty sure of this Mortyr stuff, so I decided to do a bit more checking.
I can't find a single report of Mortyr being banned anywhere other than Greece and Germany -- look, here it is for sale on Amazon http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-7217543-7850465?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mortyr&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 and here's the sequel on play.com http://play.com/Games/PC/4-/509438/-/Product.html?searchstring=mortyr&searchsource=0 -- so if you can, please send me a link. But even if it was, it's hardly comparable to having the confederate flag in W:A, is it?
I assume that's the "rebel flag" you mean? rebel.bmp? The Confederacy's flag from the American civil war? The one that's still part of Mississippi's state flag? It's controversial, but I don't think anyone would ever even try to ban a game for featuring it, especially as an entirely incidental option you don't have to ever see. Especially a decade old game. I'm pretty sure I've seen cartoons with that flag in them. I'm not sure how else I'd have recognised it.
And the fact is that the phrase "no you can download a wa.iso off of a torrent" is discussing illegally obtaining free copies of W:A and that is against the forum rules -- common sense should tell you Team17 wouldn't like you discussing that -- and, if you choose to download such a file, it is also against international copyright law, no matter what misinformation you may have read on warez sites about it being legal if you own the game or it being legal if you delete it within 48 hours. The fact that you could, theoretically, have provided fuller instructions is utterly irrelevant. You told people -- you told a MODERATOR -- how to illegaly obtain W:A for free. That's is not acceptable. You'd have to be insane to think it was acceptable!
If there's a problem, your best bet for sorting it out is simply to wait it out. I don't think me or Thomas have the ability to revoke infractions (if we do I don't know how and can't be bothered to learn), and Team17 are between webmasters at the moment and I doubt the main network administrator has the time to be chasing up petty complaints from annoying forummers. The fact is that you can still post and there are only about three weeks left on those infraction points anyway, after which they will simply vanish and you'll have full posting rights again. (Well, provided you don't clock up any more in the meantime.)
Just let it go.
Andrew
Watch out, subject, you're in for a total changing!
You still never ansered the question about what's the difference between p2p and torrents. they both have the same concept and also p2p is more widely known. so y is it ok for one and not the other.
It's not okay for you to talk about either. Sometimes people discuss one or the other and nobody cares; it's a fairly informal system and sometimes the mods don't notice or decide not to bother with infraction points or whatever, and of course it depends on context. If someone's describing a new way they'd like online play to operate and they use P2P as an example of a clever system or something then obviously that's fine, so there's a certain amount of flexibility. But discussion of either in the context of downloading Team17's games is wrong.
If you've been discussing downloading Worms from P2P networks then please send me a link so I can give you some infraction points for that as well.
I didn't say worms nor T17 i just said software
"Software" includes Worms.
well you can download worms off of p2p also just like anything else so like i said whats the difference. nothing
Alright, look, you've totally lost me now.
So what I'm going to do is, instead of attempting to respond directly to your point (because I don't know what it is and suspect it doesn't exist), is simply to explain the rules as I understand them and then you can tell me which part of them you think you have been unfaily accused of breaking. Okay? I'll number them so that we can refer to the list later, but the numbers are just something for this email and aren't official.
1. Do not insult other members.
2. Donot double post
3. Do ot swear of try to circumvent the word filter.
4. Do not post adverts.
5. Do not Post Details Regarding Hacking/Cracking Games
(Those are different categories of infractions you can get, so they're as official asit gets.) I think any talk of downloading Worms (aside from TryMedia versions) is assumed to fall under the remit of Rule Five and tends to be deleted and/or infracted.
6. Team17 can do what they like.
Rule six is a bit of a wildcard rule.
1. Do not insult other members.
hmmm people have against me on the forums and nothing happened to them, but anyways all evidence has been submitted to the authorities and legal action against T17.
29627
hmmm people have against me on the forums and nothing happened to them, but
Yes, well, after all that stuff abpout WACE that failed to materialise and after you threatening to have WA banned and after this lengthy debale are you really that surprised?
anyways all evidence has been submitted to the authorities and legal action against T17.
What? What evidence? What authorities?
Is this about your being given some infraction points on a privately run internet forum or is this your campaign to have a decade-old game banned because of one 240 pixel image that you have decided to object to, despite the fact that you previously appeared to like this game enough to produce a third-party patch for it?
I mean, I notice that you've apparently chosen not to answer my question. I simply asked you what your grievance is, so that I could better try to address it, and instead you have made vague allusions to legal action which I presume will also fail to materialise.
I think you're trying to waste my time.
Stop it. If you email me again, you'd damn well better say something.
Andrew
So er, yeah. If you guys get sued then that might kinda be my fault. Though I have no idea how or why or what I did.
I'm quite proud of what I did next. Normally I just accept things people say and try to counter them, but recently I've taken to actually checking them, and I'm finding an alarming number of them turn out to be lies.
It isn't possible for a flag to be inherently racist (except perhapsthe old South Park flag). Mortyr is something of a special case. It was banned IN GERMANY for containing Swastikas (and in Greece as part of the blanket ban on all games). The Nazi symbol has been illegal in Germany since the end of WWII, and has only recently been allowed to be reproduced, and then on the condition that its use is unambiguously anti-Nazi. W:A does not include a swastika flag and so would not fall under the same ban. Interestingly, I believe games featuring violence against humans are also illegal in Germany, so Worms is one of few games that ARE allowed there.
The UK has laws against racial hate crime and racial discrimination, but to my knowledge there are no laws here or anywhere else against reproducing symbols used by racist groups other than the Nazis -- heck, we allow the BNP to run for government -- so given that you can't spell the word "banned" (which is probably going to become very ironic very fast), I'm going to have to ignore your legal advice for the time being. And I'm not going to waste Thomas' time by bothering him with this nonsense either.
Now be honest:
Are you Jack Thompson?
No I am not Jack Thompson. Mortyr was banned from almost every country with racism laws. The Rebel flag is also in the same classification and can only be used in educational things and in the privacy of your own home. Since in this case none off those apply, therefore making the game illegal. And as far as legal advice just mentioning Torrents, there is no difference between that and saying p2p because they have the same concept. I did not mention how to use them, where to get them or anything else about it. I also mention that you should check in your country to see if it legal and that you need proof that you originally bought the software such as a reciet. Now if I gave links and/or saying how to use them or names of the programs, then I would accept the infraction points, but since this is also not the case I therefore did not violate any forum rules.
He seems pretty sure of this Mortyr stuff, so I decided to do a bit more checking.
I can't find a single report of Mortyr being banned anywhere other than Greece and Germany -- look, here it is for sale on Amazon http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-7217543-7850465?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mortyr&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 and here's the sequel on play.com http://play.com/Games/PC/4-/509438/-/Product.html?searchstring=mortyr&searchsource=0 -- so if you can, please send me a link. But even if it was, it's hardly comparable to having the confederate flag in W:A, is it?
I assume that's the "rebel flag" you mean? rebel.bmp? The Confederacy's flag from the American civil war? The one that's still part of Mississippi's state flag? It's controversial, but I don't think anyone would ever even try to ban a game for featuring it, especially as an entirely incidental option you don't have to ever see. Especially a decade old game. I'm pretty sure I've seen cartoons with that flag in them. I'm not sure how else I'd have recognised it.
And the fact is that the phrase "no you can download a wa.iso off of a torrent" is discussing illegally obtaining free copies of W:A and that is against the forum rules -- common sense should tell you Team17 wouldn't like you discussing that -- and, if you choose to download such a file, it is also against international copyright law, no matter what misinformation you may have read on warez sites about it being legal if you own the game or it being legal if you delete it within 48 hours. The fact that you could, theoretically, have provided fuller instructions is utterly irrelevant. You told people -- you told a MODERATOR -- how to illegaly obtain W:A for free. That's is not acceptable. You'd have to be insane to think it was acceptable!
If there's a problem, your best bet for sorting it out is simply to wait it out. I don't think me or Thomas have the ability to revoke infractions (if we do I don't know how and can't be bothered to learn), and Team17 are between webmasters at the moment and I doubt the main network administrator has the time to be chasing up petty complaints from annoying forummers. The fact is that you can still post and there are only about three weeks left on those infraction points anyway, after which they will simply vanish and you'll have full posting rights again. (Well, provided you don't clock up any more in the meantime.)
Just let it go.
Andrew
Watch out, subject, you're in for a total changing!
You still never ansered the question about what's the difference between p2p and torrents. they both have the same concept and also p2p is more widely known. so y is it ok for one and not the other.
It's not okay for you to talk about either. Sometimes people discuss one or the other and nobody cares; it's a fairly informal system and sometimes the mods don't notice or decide not to bother with infraction points or whatever, and of course it depends on context. If someone's describing a new way they'd like online play to operate and they use P2P as an example of a clever system or something then obviously that's fine, so there's a certain amount of flexibility. But discussion of either in the context of downloading Team17's games is wrong.
If you've been discussing downloading Worms from P2P networks then please send me a link so I can give you some infraction points for that as well.
I didn't say worms nor T17 i just said software
"Software" includes Worms.
well you can download worms off of p2p also just like anything else so like i said whats the difference. nothing
Alright, look, you've totally lost me now.
So what I'm going to do is, instead of attempting to respond directly to your point (because I don't know what it is and suspect it doesn't exist), is simply to explain the rules as I understand them and then you can tell me which part of them you think you have been unfaily accused of breaking. Okay? I'll number them so that we can refer to the list later, but the numbers are just something for this email and aren't official.
1. Do not insult other members.
2. Donot double post
3. Do ot swear of try to circumvent the word filter.
4. Do not post adverts.
5. Do not Post Details Regarding Hacking/Cracking Games
(Those are different categories of infractions you can get, so they're as official asit gets.) I think any talk of downloading Worms (aside from TryMedia versions) is assumed to fall under the remit of Rule Five and tends to be deleted and/or infracted.
6. Team17 can do what they like.
Rule six is a bit of a wildcard rule.
1. Do not insult other members.
hmmm people have against me on the forums and nothing happened to them, but anyways all evidence has been submitted to the authorities and legal action against T17.
29627
hmmm people have against me on the forums and nothing happened to them, but
Yes, well, after all that stuff abpout WACE that failed to materialise and after you threatening to have WA banned and after this lengthy debale are you really that surprised?
anyways all evidence has been submitted to the authorities and legal action against T17.
What? What evidence? What authorities?
Is this about your being given some infraction points on a privately run internet forum or is this your campaign to have a decade-old game banned because of one 240 pixel image that you have decided to object to, despite the fact that you previously appeared to like this game enough to produce a third-party patch for it?
I mean, I notice that you've apparently chosen not to answer my question. I simply asked you what your grievance is, so that I could better try to address it, and instead you have made vague allusions to legal action which I presume will also fail to materialise.
I think you're trying to waste my time.
Stop it. If you email me again, you'd damn well better say something.
Andrew
So er, yeah. If you guys get sued then that might kinda be my fault. Though I have no idea how or why or what I did.