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To detect if a CD is virtual or actually a physical CD? I'm getting really ****ed at people openly discussing in games their downloaded ISO of WA. Maybe make it so you have to put the disc in at least once before you can play it with an ISO, so it doesn't stop people who legitimately own the game mounting the CD.
If this is possible, it might be a good idea to implement it into WA 4.0.
But then I'd have to put the CD in every day, which is a pain in the ass
Especially as it's at home and not here
And i'd have to go buy yet another copy, as my battle pack one has had a huge split running from the central hole to about halfway through the disc for the past 2 years.
AndrewTaylor
4 Feb 2007, 16:10
To detect if a CD is virtual or actually a physical CD? I'm getting really ****ed at people openly discussing in games their downloaded ISO of WA.
If they're doing it here, report it.
But there's no way that you can have copy-protection that stops pirates without inconveniencing legitimate owners (aside perhaps from ludicrously low prices), so you either have to plump for one or the other option: forget it and lose a few sales, or use it and probably lose a few other sales.
But then I'd have to put the CD in every day, which is a pain in the ass
Especially as it's at home and not here
Maybe make it so you have to put the disc in at least once before you can play it with an ISO, so it doesn't stop people who legitimately own the game mounting the CD.
. .
That doesn't stop someone borrowing the CD, making an ISO, and then sending it back from whence it came though does it?
Squirminator2k
4 Feb 2007, 22:13
Perhaps not, but it does stop people just distributing an ISO over the Internet and saying "Mount this, fella!". That'd drastically reduce the number of people who play using illegal copies.
M3ntal: WA is only £5, and that includes a copy of W2. If you go to HMV it's even cheaper, as their Sold Out stuff is mostly priced between £2-£4.
Yeah i know, Ben. Currently my ISO backup works fine though. ***** of it is i have perfectly working CD's of W2 and WWP, but i only play W:A.
unless your gonna sell the discs again with the new copy protection on them people will just burn the ISO's that they currently have to a disc and be able to play the game still.
im sure no one would want to be forced to re-purchase a game just so they can put the disc in every time they play.
True, the copy protection used on the W:A CD is easily circumvented/emulated by todays burning/mounting tools.
Differing between a real CD or a virtual drive is impossible, I guess.
Squirminator2k
5 Feb 2007, 13:41
Oh, I'm sure it can be done.
Vercetti
5 Feb 2007, 14:31
If anything, the copy protection will probably be reduced in a patch, not increased. Now something that actually should have it's security increased is the login system.
AndrewTaylor
5 Feb 2007, 14:36
Oh, I'm sure it can be done.
It depends. I mean, look at an Amiga emulator. It can't tell that the mounted images aren't reall floppy disks because as far as the "Amiga"s OS reports to the software, they are. You could do the same with CD drives on a PC and there'd be no way to prove it one way or the other.
You can do clever things to prove it if you can choose what's on the CD, because then you can make it do things that the emulation code isn't expecting to have to do. But in the case of W:A it's a bit late, as the CDs are already out there. That's why some copy-protection breaks emulators, because the disk image just doesn't have a way to store the disks deliberate idiosyncracies -- and disk copying programmes can't duplicate them either, which is why they're used.
Besides which, such a test might fail on a drive like a DVD-ROM or Blu-Ray or HD-DVD or something, which are compatible with the official-standard CDs, but not always with a slightly modified copy-protected version.
Frankly, I think if Team17 want to make money from W:A they'd be far better off distributing the game for free and then setting up pay-to-enter official tournaments and leagues and things, PartyPoker.com style. You could even have prizes.
Squirminator2k
5 Feb 2007, 14:43
That actually sounds like a good idea. Besides anything else, it'd be the only way I'd ever get one of those ultra-rare Worms 2 watches.
Although it could have something in the WA.EXE that "tests" the drive for traits of emulated ones (eg telling the game to eject and reinsert the disk, and if it takes a miniscule time refusing to load).
if this could be done it would have been done (afterall even if such a system were in place, it could be broken much easier). and, after beta 4 is ouyt you can bet your boots, within 6 months there is a no cd patch anyway.
I have real CD. but to be honest I don't understand fuss. WA is a "dead" game with a very large following. If anything letting more people play it will result in more people willing to buy future games.
Squirminator2k
5 Feb 2007, 18:08
I'm sure Sold Out software would have something to say about WA being a "dead" game seeing as it is constantly listed in their "Top Twenty" sales listings.
and that is only because of the community that still enjoys an old game. The idea that a game is still recieving updates this much later was probably not expected by team 17, and if not for the comminity as a whole (those with illegal copies and all), we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But it doesn't matter. I am all for arguing a point worth arguing. The point is , nothing whatsoever can be done to stop the patcher or the copier and downloader. So it is not worth the huge debate imho:rolleyes:
In an ideal world, of course we would all HAVE to pay, everyone would be happy and the world would be bouncing around its orbit ;)
quakerworm
5 Feb 2007, 19:03
To detect if a CD is virtual or actually a physical CD?
in theory, yes, by checking something that isn't part of the standard. for example, one of the things that many copy protection programs will do is check the physical angle between two different sectors. every printed disk will have the same angle. copies made with cd burning hardware will most likely not. virtual disks will either be unable to give you the angle at all, or will report some fictitious number that, most likely, not match the one you are checking.
there are, however, many problems with that. the most basic problem is that there have been many releases of wa, and you have to check each one. some more complicated problems will involve various driver and optical disc incompatibilities. as it was mentioned, it would greatly annoy people.
And there are even ways around that using image files and emulating with certain options in clonecd and alcohol120%.
In the end it just isn't worth the effort and annoyance. Whereas for newer games which implement it from the beginning-theer is atleast some merit.
CaVeFiSH
5 Feb 2007, 22:12
there are, however, many problems with that. the most basic problem is that there have been many releases of wa, and you have to check each one. some more complicated problems will involve various driver and optical disc incompatibilities. as it was mentioned, it would greatly annoy people.
I think the most basic problem is the time and effort: its not interesting implementing this kind of features for a soldout game.
Ok, lets include this wonderful feature, so... how long would take for a cracking patching some bytes? ok ok, lets use our 'well known' cheap and fast commercial PE packer... using a generic unpacker its hard for any cracker? of course not, so... lets code our non generic packer! lets forget some cool features like making WA/WWP compatible, lets claim for more important features such as copy-protection or DRM
You could even have prizes.
I'm thinking of something malty and hoppy right now.
Frankly, I think if Team17 want to make money from W:A they'd be far better off distributing the game for free and then setting up pay-to-enter official tournaments and leagues and things, PartyPoker.com style. You could even have prizes.
Yes you are totally right. Of course I am crap with the rope and game in general. So i won't be applying...just yet :)
Perhaps not, but it does stop people just distributing an ISO over the Internet and saying "Mount this, fella!". That'd drastically reduce the number of people who play using illegal copies.
M3ntal: WA is only £5, and that includes a copy of W2. If you go to HMV it's even cheaper, as their Sold Out stuff is mostly priced between £2-£4.
since alcohol could emulate (to my knowledge) all copy protections that can be applied to the game without the need to re-release the game on a new cd... people would still release images of the disc over the internet... they would most likely change from a nero format tho.
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