I'm fed up with it! (aka Gamaking please!)

[SupSuper]

I'm fed up with it! I just am. I'm just fed up that every single game project I start (alone) ends up failing for one reason or another, usually because of some "unexplicable flaw" that I can't figure out so I have to just dump it and move on to my next failure.

Many of you would say that my main flaw is not using "real coding". I've used Klik N Play, The Games Factory, Multimedia Fusion, Flash, AGS, or even Borland Delphi and C++ Builder. I even tried porting X-Com to my TI-86 but ran out of space since I was using the very bulky TI-BASIC.

My problem is, no matter how much I've tried, I can't get into any "real game coding". Most tutorials only cover how things like displaying coloured triangles take a whole lot of lines and they don't put things from an "useful" perspective, if I want to do anything like playing a sound or loading a PNG I have to go around building and linking additional libraries, and even setting up the simplest of things like a menu takes up a whole lot of classes, constructors, pointers and what not. And using pre-built engines doesn't make it much easier, each seeming more complex than the last.

Now, I have no problem using real coding. I like messing around with vars, ifs, arrays, loading files and what not. But I just wish there were easy ways for me to write 2D games, to simply put sprites on the screen, make UIs, handle scrolling and collisions, etc. without having to resort to something extremely easy like MMF but ends up flawed since it's so easy, it takes forever to write tons of conditions for the same thing (no functions or anything) or figure out problems; or something like Flash which gives me a good graphics/coding mix but with movieclips screwing with me every time. I wanna make something that I can finish. That I can be proud of. That others can be proud of. Without ending up with yet another doomed project that just wasted my time. (I'm seriously thinking of releasing all my scrapped

And since there seem to be a fair share of programmers and/or coders around here, I figured I'd ask what would you suggest for me. Preferably something that won't cost me money. :p

[bloopy]

If you've tried The Games Factory and a whole lot of other similar programs and none of them have worked for you, then give up on that idea.

I've found that Flash is yucky for making games. It took a couple of years of object oriented programming at university before I could get my head around programming actionscript and movieclips.

My suggestion to you is to use either C# with VisualStudio, or Java with an IDE such as Eclipse or NetBeans. It's relatively easy to get going with their Graphics classes, and you can be designing an application at the same time, so you can add menus and things. I could give you a head start with a simple example.

Visual C# Express 2005 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/download/) is currently available for free if you want to try that. C#'s a bit nicer to use than Java, ad the Java IDEs tend to run a bit slower.

[Plutonic]

If your moving to actuall languages, you are automatically going to be moving away from automatic colision and graphics rendering etc. Its just something you will have to get used too, as is building and libraries.

If you are tempted by C/C++ I would suggest SDL. It's multiplatform and is very easy to use for sound and 2D graphics. OpenGL and DirectX are realy configured more for 3D.

[bloopy]

SDL is available for C# and Java too.

[SupSuper]

I might as well mention, I have some experience with real coding. Just not real game coding. :p And most people recommend C#, and since I already know C/C++, it seems like the next logical step. I can't get Visual C# Express 2005, due to reasons I can't be bothered to go into, but I have Visual Studio .NET 2003 so that'll have to do.

Also ran into this thingy - http://gpwiki.org/ - which has been quite helpful, and SDL does seem to be the best for my simple needs, so I'll go with that too. Let's hope I'll at least get a Tetris clone out of all of this. :p

Thanks for the help. :)

[AndrewTaylor]

I've had problems with SDL, but I've found for .NET use Tao works very well, at least for OpenGL. Otherwise, using OpenGL explicitly seemed suprisingly easy in Windows native code.

OpenGL is marvellous. It's probably my favourite graphics setup ever. But it doesn't do sound, so it's no good for games on its own. I expect Tao has some sound routines in it somewhere but I've not looked for them as the SudoKube really didn't need them.

[Plutonic]

OpenGL is fantastic for 3D... but 2D? The only way I have found to do it is to make all sprites Polygons and place them at the correct distance from the camera.....

[SupSuper]

I've heard OpenAL is a nice audio library.

[bloopy]

I started making a tetris game in Java but kinda forgot about it soon after. :cool:

I have Visual Studio .NET 2003 so that'll have to do.
Still using that myself actually. I should be getting 2005 at work soon though.

If I get around to it, I'm going to try making a game using Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/) and Tao.

[Pigbuster]

I also have great trouble getting any momentum for my games.
I may have finally thought of a solution to my collision woes, but the quarter is almost over, and my assignments are piling up. I have a long weekend this week, but I'm going to a stupid amount of art college tours and I still have to do my homework.

I get extremely depressed when I can't get the code in my game to work, simply because I have a dream of finishing a game. I have one hell of a story that I want to tell, and I just want it to get out there somehow.

What really sucks is that I usually don't feel like I have the talent for this. I'm damn good at core ideas, but actually making them happen is tough.
I can program somewhat, but it's usually too large and inefficient, and I fear that if I do make a game, it would run too slowly. I have ideas for art stuff, like landscapes and characters, but I'm not sure I'm a good enough artist to pull off what I have in mind. I have composed many core tunes that I would want to use, but I'm not sure if Garageband is a good enough program to pull that music off well.

The thing that I feel like I am best at is plot and dialogue. Every short story I've written eventually winds down to a dialogue between characters. Problem is, I've practically never written any of these things down, they're all in my mind, so I don't know if anyone ELSE thinks that it's any good. I feel like this is one of my greatest talents, but it's the one that I've used the least out of them all. My art is one thing, but my stories are practically a part of me, and I find it impossible to truly post them anywhere for critique or anything.

And note that the game I want to make is not an arcade game, but a full-length thing that'll probably take me years and years to finish, if I ever were to begin. If I were to get a solid engine down and working, I truly feel like I would be able to complete the idea I have in mind, which is rather enormous.

[AndrewTaylor]

You might want to consider getting Help. If you have a great story and good vision and if you can communicate those well then you ought to have little problem getting other people to contribute code and musical arrangements and whatnot.
OpenGL is fantastic for 3D... but 2D? The only way I have found to do it is to make all sprites Polygons and place them at the correct distance from the camera.....

The trick is not to use a 3D prespective matrix. If you use a 2D projection matrix you're good to go. (OpenGL actually operates in 4D, so it really makes very little difference if you drop another dimension. It's desiged to work in 2D and 3D.) You still have to use polygons for everything, but OpenGL will scale things, rotate things and move things for you. It helps if you're good at object-oriented programming. Not because you'll be doing any, but because it's a fairly similar way of thinking.

I too have a few ideas for nasty tricks to pull on gamers -- I think games are too nice lately and want to go back to the days when Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy was released when games hated you and lied to you -- but I don't have any ideas for games to put them in.

[SupSuper]

You might want to consider getting Help. If you have a great story and good vision and if you can communicate those well then you ought to have little problem getting other people to contribute code and musical arrangements and whatnot.You'd be surprised. :p
I too have a few ideas for nasty tricks to pull on gamers -- I think games are too nice lately and want to go back to the days when Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy was released when games hated you and lied to you -- but I don't have any ideas for games to put them in.If it makes you happy, I already find all your games fiendishly hard. :p

[AndrewTaylor]

If it makes you happy, I already find all your games fiendishly hard. :p

Oh, that's just because I don't test them thoroughly enough.

[Pigbuster]

In some Nightmare on Elm Street game, the back of the box proudly proclaims that Freddy cheats in order to kill you. :p

[SupSuper]

Here's my first thing. Every tutorial says you should start with Tetris, so... yeah. 11kb of classic gaming goodness!

Ended up sticking with C++ since:
- I couldn't be bothered to learn a whole new language
- C++ is still the most common language (and SDL comes C++ ready)
- I don't wanna make people download the .NET Framework everytime I make something. :p
Oh and I used VS2005 since I reinstalled my computer, and SDL since it is, in fact, Simple!

So yeah, the game is pretty barebones, since I wanted to make it playable first, since I tend to get distracted making it fancy. Use the arrow keys, and try not to break the game since the rotation's kinda funky. :p

If you don't have SDL.dll, grab it off http://www.libsdl.org/
I couldn't include it in the ZIP or it'd exceed the forum limit.

[bonz]

I don't wanna make people download the .NET Framework everytime I make something.
You only need to download it once. :p
So yeah, the game is pretty barebones, since I wanted to make it playable first, since I tend to get distracted making it fancy. Use the arrow keys, and try not to break the game since the rotation's kinda funky.
Funky, yes. :D
When rotating, the blocks can move outside of black area. Sometimes you can't move them back in then unless you rotate them again.
And once a block moved out of the boundaries and half of it appeared on the opposite side. That's how it stayed when they dropped.

[SupSuper]

You only need to download it once.Well I like to keep it lightweight. If you use DirectX or .NET, you have to ask people to get stuff. If you just stick with OpenGL or any other ready-to-use libraries like SDL, you don't.

Funky, yes. :D
When rotating, the blocks can move outside of black area. Sometimes you can't move them back in then unless you rotate them again.
And once a block moved out of the boundaries and half of it appeared on the opposite side. That's how it stayed when they dropped.Yeah, I was just happy enough that I finally figured out how to make the blocks rotate, so I didn't worry about the rest. Be glad that you didn't crash it. :p

Anyways, I fixed up the rotating, greyed the background a bit (so the white pieces don't blend in) and you can pause the game with P.
Yes I know, why am I stlll working on something that's been done? Well, it keeps me on my toes; I want to actually get it done to a "enjoyable" point, not just "playable"; and it allows me to stick it to Plasma and Faraz that I can code games with real coding. ;)

Download it here! (http://www.freefileupload.net/file.php?file=files/141106/1163529408/Testris.zip)

To cut down the trouble, I sticked the SDL.dll in, so I couldn't attach it. Enjoy the screenshot. :p
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/supsuper/testris.png

[Star Worms]

The download link doesn't work for me - it just brings up an ad about free ipods or something.

[bonz]

greyed the background a bit (so the white pieces don't blend in)
Hmm. You should change the color of the blocks anyway. White isn't a good color.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris

[SupSuper]

The download link doesn't work for me - it just brings up an ad about free ipods or something.Works for me. It does bring up an annoying ad, yeah, but it still gives you the download if you wait.
If you can find a better place to put it, feel free to point me to it.

Hmm. You should change the color of the blocks anyway. White isn't a good color.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TetrisHmm, I might change it later, I was just going with the standard 8-color pallete. But the game's good, right?

Next step is adding text, and with it, the important stuff: scoring and difficulty!

[Star Worms]

Works for me. It does bring up an annoying ad, yeah, but it still gives you the download if you wait.That keeps timing out though:(

How big is the file?

[bonz]

Hmm, I might change it later, I was just going with the standard 8-color pallete. But the game's good, right?

Next step is adding text, and with it, the important stuff: scoring and difficulty!
Yeah, the game looks nice so far.
You could add windowed mode, so the window is only slightly bigger than the play area.
Maybe you can find a free version of the game music. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korobeiniki)
And the ability to move blocks down slowly instead of dropping them all the way to the bottom.
(Necessary for those moves where you put one block under another.)

[Pigbuster]

If there's one thing I like about flash, it's that it's multi-platform.
Because play this, I cannot.

[SupSuper]

If there's one thing I like about flash, it's that it's multi-platform.
Because play this, I cannot.Well SDL is also multi-platform, the only problem is I'd need a Mac to do a Mac build, or get someone with one to build my code with XCode, so... sorry about that.

Anyways, final version of Testris. Yes I know I could add sound, music, fancy graphics, highscores, etc, but I'm just practicing here, not trying to compete with every other clone around.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/supsuper/testris-1.png

If the screenshot isn't clear enough:

Text, yay! Thus the addition of the SDL_ttf library.
Changed colors as per Bonz's request, (although the original DID have white, Bonz :p) they now follow the colors of the Arcade version.
Added key to move down block, as per Bonz's request
Enabled you to still move around the block sideways after dropping it (to do the whole "slide one under another" thing)
Score, yay! (follows the simple Nintendo formula, according to wiki)
Levels, yay! (every 8 lines it goes faster)
You can rotate the blocks counterclockwise
The game now pauses when you lose, so you can point down your score or whatever. You can restart it with P or Enter (same for unpausing the game)
Probably some other minor tweaks and fixes


And since SW keeps complaining about the host, I put it here this time: http://rooms.wurmz.net/Other%20Stuff/Testris.zip

[bonz]

HAHA! :D
I just recognized that you named the game Testris.

[SupSuper]

My cleverness knows no bounds. :rolleyes:

[Pigbuster]

Well SDL is also multi-platform, the only problem is I'd need a Mac to do a Mac build, or get someone with one to build my code with XCode, so... sorry about that.

I'll just imagine it.
...
YES. I WON.

[bloopy]

Not a bad effort, Mr Super!

[SupSuper]

http://rooms.wurmz.net/Other%20Stuff/Testris.NET.zip

Here's the exact same thing as before, only in C#. Hurrah for peer pressure!
.NET Framework 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=0856EACB-4362-4B0D-8EDD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en) REQURED!

This is merely for you peepz to tell me if there's any difference between both versions. Performance, speed, stuff like that.

[FutureWorm]

Well SDL is also multi-platform, the only problem is I'd need a Mac to do a Mac build, or get someone with one to build my code with XCode
oh hay there

[Plutonic]

I tried emulating Mac to get my code built on it. ha.. hahaha. haha.

Actually I didnt do badly - i got panther running with little problems... buy XCode requires Tiger.

Emulating Tiger is apparently much more of a problem.. sigh

[Pigbuster]

I just discovered that there has been a beta released for Actionscript 3.0.
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5Fflpro9%5Fas3

MIND BLOW.

Honestly... a lot of changes are afoot. The lack of documentation makes things rather difficult. I mean, abolition of _root.? MADNESS.
I should probably try to get my collision detection working properly before I begin the difficult transition to 3.0.
Sigh.
But I KNOW I have to do it. They say it runs around 10 times faster. That'd be worth it, most definitely.
I just have to learn how classes work, and all that jazz.

Could someone explain how I'm supposed to upload a flash file to the internet if I'm using external actionscript files?

[Xinos]

What? They can't remove _root! Are all variables global? If I make a 'speed' variable on my cube movieclip, I still need to access it from cube.speed right? How are do I make a global variable in that case?

I refuse to click the link and read for myself btw..

[SupSuper]

I just discovered that there has been a beta released for Actionscript 3.0.
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5Fflpro9%5Fas3

MIND BLOW.I've heard it about it long ago (since it's been on the front page of Adobe for ages now) but I'm not enough of a power user to jump on something with barely any documentation and support. :p

Honestly... a lot of changes are afoot. The lack of documentation makes things rather difficult. I mean, abolition of _root.? MADNESS.The abolition of _root makes sense, if they did it right. I always got annoyed that I had to refer to pratically everything with the full path to "_root". I'm too used to regular coding. :p

I should probably try to get my collision detection working properly before I begin the difficult transition to 3.0.
Sigh.
But I KNOW I have to do it. They say it runs around 10 times faster. That'd be worth it, most definitely.
I just have to learn how classes work, and all that jazz.Classes are rather simple. It's mainly for reusing code. I made one to allow a movie clip to be selectable to be dragged/rotated/resized/recolored so I don't have to copy+paste it into all the instances.
Could someone explain how I'm supposed to upload a flash file to the internet if I'm using external actionscript files?I think the external files are only needed for the FLA, and all built into the SWF so you can put it anywhere.

[SupSuper]

(Double-post because it looks neater)

Before I forget, here's one of the projects lost in The HDD Incident II. (see NEAO) I'm posting the remains here in case anyone enjoys it. Since it's a in-progress-build, it's bound to be incomplete and buggy.
.NET Framework 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=0856EACB-4362-4B0D-8EDD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en) still required for Windows users.
Mac/Linux users, you might get it going with Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/) (same goes for Testris.NET)
Can Mono run binaries produced by Visual Studio?

Yes, Mono can run binaries produced by Visual Studio, there is no need to recompile.

Mono API coverage is limited to the .NET 1.1 API at this point, with spotty support for 2.0, for more details see our Roadmap.This is pretty cool since it means I don't have to go around switching between OSes to support them. :)

Download:
http://rooms.wurmz.net/Other%20Stuff/sffm(2).zip

Screenshot:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/supsuper/sffm00000000000003.png

Controls:
Player 1 - Movement: Arrow Keys, Action: Right Ctrl, Right Shift
Player 2 - Movement: WSAD, Action: Z, X
F8 - Fullscreen / Windowed mode

Forum oldies are more likely to recognize what this is (was) all about. ;)