Linux - help?

[Muzer]

I have decided to get linux, and put it on my 2nd HDD (if that's possible), so my brother can start it with the default option (windows) so he can use the computer exactly as he did before, but I can override the option (preferably easily) on startup so I can use linux.

So, I have some questions:

Where is the best place to download linux. I read something about there being several versions (if not ignore the next bit), so I would like the most user-friendly version, but one that still has many features.
Does wine work with MOST windows games, or only some?
How do I do the thing mentiond in the above paragraph?
More importantly, could someone point me to (or make) an installation tutorial for it (If the installation is not user friendly)?
Is what I am proposing even possible?
Do you think I am making the right decision?


Thanks in advance for replies!

Muzer, possible future owner of Linux.

[evilworm2]

... put it on my 2nd HDD (if that's possible)

It is.

Where is the best place to download linux. I read something about there being several versions (if not ignore the next bit), so I would like the most user-friendly version, but one that still has many features.

There is only ONE linux. The linux kernel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel).
You want the most user-friendly linux distribution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution). There are millions of them. See http://distrowatch.com/.
You can usually download the distribution from the corresponding website.

If you are an absolute linux newbie, i recommend SuSE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suse).
Mandriva (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandriva_Linux) is easy to begin with, too.

Once you get more experienced, you will stop using SuSE or Mandriva, because they actually suck. (Too bloated, too slow, too windows-like)
You will use RedHat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Linux), Gentoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux), Debian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian), Slackware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware) or even build your OWN distribution with Linux from scratch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_From_Scratch)... (I did)

Does wine work with MOST windows games, or only some?

Here is a list of some games (http://www.holarse-linuxgaming.de/h2006/space/Alle+Spiele+nach+Genre) that run with wine. (German site, but you should be able to read the titles of the games. ;))

http://www.winehq.org/
http://www.linux-gamers.net/

Btw.: W:A runs with wine, too. Thanks a lot madewokherd. ;)

How do I do the thing mentiond in the above paragraph?

If you mean that you want to put it on your 2nd HDD, there is no problem, since the installer asks you where it should install the whole stuff.
If not, then ... uhm... ask again. ;)

More importantly, could someone point me to (or make) an installation tutorial for it (If the installation is not user friendly)?

An installation tutorial makes no sense at this point, since i don't know which distribution you'll use in the end.

Is what I am proposing even possible?

Yes.

Do you think I am making the right decision?

YES!

[Muzer]

K, thanks. I'll probably ask a few more questions tomorrow.

For now, I need to do homework.

[Pieboy337]

Im a linux newbie aswell and I have found that pclinuxos was nice and easy and I was told to use suse which I have installed and has been great.

[Muzer]

If you mean that you want to put it on your 2nd HDD, there is no problem, since the installer asks you where it should install the whole stuff.
If not, then ... uhm... ask again. ;)



I mean is it possible to have windows and linux installed, and be able to make windows start up as normal (and you don't have to do anything thay you wouldn't before), but you can press a key (or a combination; doesn't matter unless you have to change 25000 settings every time you start linux) to get it to switch to a linux boot?

[MadEwokHerd]

If you use the grub bootloader (the default for ubuntu, the distribution I prefer), you can configure it so that it shows a boot menu for N seconds and then boots to the os of your choice (windows in this case).

There's also apparently a "hiddenmenu" option where you have to press ESC to see the menu. I haven't tried it so I can't say exactly how it works.

You should expect that windows games will not run as well under wine as they do in windows if they run at all, and you will have to put some effort into learning to use wine properly so you can run them. WA works just well enough that all the features are usable; it's still slow, and the frontend crashes in certain situations (mostly after finishing missions or failing to join a networked game).

[Pieboy337]

I use lilo on my pc to chose the operating system. It worked well but then it one day just broke and I had to repair the windows boot thing. I have been using grub since and it works alot better. So deffinatly use grub.

[wormthingy]

id say, go for ubuntu. the grub loader is very usefull. i got 2 hd in my pc, both with ubuntu(dont ask). when i boot up i can choose wich one i boot from and it just works fine :)
wine doesnt always work for me (e.g. it crashes on wwp) and it mostly slows games down

[Muzer]

But is ubnutu good for noobs?

[evilworm2]

But is ubnutu good for noobs?

Ubuntu is a live cd. It runs without touching your harddisk.
Good for noobs.

In addition you are able to install Ubuntu to your harddrive.
Good for anyone.

;)

[Muzer]

So... do you have to pay for it? I thought linux was free.

Or is there a Cd image that you can download and burn with NERO?

If it's the latter, where can I get this?

[evilworm2]

So... do you have to pay for it? I thought linux was free.

Ubuntu is free.

Or is there a Cd image that you can download and burn with NERO?

Linux distributions which you can download usually come along as an iso image.

If it's the latter, where can I get this?

By this question you showed that it's better you stay with Window. Linux users can solve problems by themselves. USE GOOGLE.

[wormthingy]

But is ubnutu good for noobs?

yes sir, i went from windows>mac>linux>mac+linux and learnt linux in 1-2 week(s)

[MadEwokHerd]

If it's the latter, where can I get this?

http://www.ubuntu.com/download

[Pieboy337]

dose ubunu use kde?

[MadEwokHerd]

Ubuntu uses GNOME.

Kubuntu is exactly like Ubuntu except that the default desktop is KDE rather than GNOME.

[Pieboy337]

oh, Im not a big fan of GNOME. KDE I have used mostly so I am much more used to it. Also I find KDE to be a nice easy kind of interface.

[Muzer]

By this question you showed that it's better you stay with Window. Linux users can solve problems by themselves. USE GOOGLE.

I was tired then. Not now. But now MadEwokHead has posted a link, I shan't bother to google it (less work!).

[evilworm2]

I was tired then. Not now. But now MadEwokHead has posted a link, I shan't bother to google it (less work!).

No offence... But if you like to use Linux, you will encounter a lot of problems int the first time. The question where to downlad Ubuntu you could have solved easlily by typing 'ubuntu download' in Googles search engine.

Thats how problem soving works...

1. Recognize problem.
2. Understand problem.
3. Looking for an answer to your problem by yourself.
And finally, if you can't solve it by your own:
4. Ask people.

[wormthingy]

No offence... But if you like to use Linux, you will encounter a lot of problems int the first time. The question where to downlad Ubuntu you could have solved easlily by typing 'ubuntu download' in Googles search engine.

Thats how problem soving works...

1. Recognize problem.
2. Understand problem.
3. Looking for an answer to your problem by yourself.
And finally, if you can't solve it by your own:
4. Ask people.

this is very true.. though i do it this way:
1. Ask people.
2. let them recognize problem
3. let them look for an answer
And finally, if they can't solve it:
4. get a mac :p or try and solve it yourself


If it's the latter, where can I get this?
well.. i ordered a box of 45 cd's and go them free.. its pretty cool. the downside of it is that i got 44 ubuntu discs lying around for nothing...

[MadEwokHerd]

There wasn't an option to order a box of 1 ubuntu cd?

[franpa]

which of the ubunto packages should i get? as there are many to choose from. (im after maximum control)

---
system specs
---
Pentium 4 3.00ghz with HT (single core)
asus p5ld2 standard motherboard
2 gig ddr2 ram
200 gig sata2 hdd
cd rom (drive 1)
dvd burner (drive 2)
X-FI Xtreme Music Soundblaster
nvidia geforce 6600gt 128mb pcie (jetway i think)
windows xp home sp2 with latest patches and updates.
latest drivers for everything and the latest direct x 9.0c
---
FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org)
Gentoo Linux (http://www.gentoo.org)
Damn Small Linux (http://www.damnsmalllinux.org)
Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com)
Kubuntu Linux (http://www.kubuntu.org)
Xubuntu Linux (http://www.xubuntu.org)
Edubuntu Linux (http://www.edubuntu.org)
ELX Linux (http://www.elxlinux.com)
Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org)
Red Hat Linux (http://www.redhat.com)
SUSE Linux (http://www.suse.com)

[MadEwokHerd]

Try them all and install the one you like. ;D

Edit: Not Gentoo.

[franpa]

based on my system specs above and these 2 picture below which should i download?

[MadEwokHerd]

The one that says i386.

[franpa]

thank you i will now take a look at this... depending on file size it may take some time to get... (600mb takes approx 4 hours to d/l.)

[Pieboy337]

Try them all and install the one you like. ;D

Edit: Not Gentoo.
whats wrong with gentoo?

[evilworm2]

whats wrong with gentoo?

Nothing...
But with Gentoo you have to compile all your programs from source code by yourself.

Disadvantage: You need a fast machine and much, much time.
Advantage: All is super duper mega fast. (in the end);)

[MadEwokHerd]

Other disadvantage: everything breaks if you don't know what you're doing

Edit: why would it be faster than optimized code that someone else compiles?

[evilworm2]

Other disadvantage: everything breaks if you don't know what you're doing

Edit: why would it be faster than optimized code that someone else compiles?

You said it: optimizations for your very special cpu. There are a lot of compiler flags (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.1/gcc/Optimize-Options.html) to set...

[Muzer]

Downloading ubuntu (25%) 1h 20min left

[MadEwokHerd]

You said it: optimizations for your very special cpu. There are a lot of compiler flags (http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.1/gcc/Optimize-Options.html) to set...

*searches for a flag that optimizes for his very special Pentium 4 CPU*

*doesn't find it*

[evilworm2]

*searches for a flag that optimizes for his very special Pentium 4 CPU*

*doesn't find it*

http://gentoo-wiki.com/CFLAGS

Most binarys come along with more general flags enabled

[wormthingy]

There wasn't an option to order a box of 1 ubuntu cd?

mm, i think the minimum was 5 :/ not too sure though...

anyways... good luck with linux and stuff

[Pieboy337]

why is it that the linux community seems to hate windows so much? I mean, I use linux much more than windows now, but I still have windows as my 2nd operating system on my machine for certain games. I dont hate windows though. Im just wondering if anyone knows why.

[MrBunsy]

uhhh, because MICROSOFT HAVE A MONOPOLY... mabye?

[franpa]

i downloaded that and was wandering if when i boot from the dic i can install it to my hdd as the autorun just says that it will allow me to test it without harming my current o/s.

so is it possible to install it to my hdd or was i meant to download something else? cause it would be gay if i do have to download something else.

[wormthingy]

you can install it from the live cd to where ever you want, but be sure you install it on the right drive

[franpa]

define the right drive? can the instllar partition etc? or must i do that from windows? or what? as i only have 1 phisical hard disc drive... (plenty of space free on most of the already existing partitions but to my knowledge linux uses completely different file structure and as such wont recognize fat based partitions.

[evilworm2]

Of course you need a free partition in order to install Ubunto to your harddrive.
You can partition your hdd with a program called 'gparted'

I bet you even did't have had a look in the README:
https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/

How to partition:
https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/partitions-booting.html
But be careful. Don't delete your windows partition.

[franpa]

i know how to partition i just didnt know how to partition for a linux o/s and as such thank you for the link.

[franpa]

sorry for the double post but must i burn to disc and boot from the gpart iso?

[Muzer]

Just when it's finished, my damn brother's on the PC.

[wormthingy]

sorry for the double post but must i burn to disc and boot from the gpart iso?

burn disc > shutdown > boot from disk > ubuntu live > install from ubuntu live (the install givs you the option to install on a partition, thats all i think

[franpa]

lol, ok so since i only got fat partitions i have to use gpart to make a linux one.... thus i think i need to boot to gpart, make part, boot to live disc, install linux.

correct?

does gpart allow me to resize my fat partitions or must i do that from within windows? and is 20 gigs enough to test it out?

[Pieboy337]

Live cd dose not take up space, so you can test it out without having to isntall anything. If that was your question. I am pretty sure you can resize with gpart.

[MadEwokHerd]

gparted can certainly resize yout fat partitions. Linux tends to get along very well with fat.

It doesn't get along so well with ntfs. It's lucky you don't have that.

[franpa]

lawl i meant ntfs...... anyways i partitioned it with gpart then discovered that there is a partitioner provided with ubuntu... anyways after its all done.... i install it to my hdd and it gets to 27% done (during file copy) then just sits there idling......... if i multitask it freezes... and the time remaining jumps to a couple 10,000 minutes.

any help? and what file systems does linux like? fat? fat32? fat64? ext2? ext3? etc. (not sure if it was ext)

edit: the partitions im installing to are not ntfs and are obviously compatible as the installer doesn't let you install to incompatible partitions.

[wormthingy]

lawl i meant ntfs...... anyways i partitioned it with gpart then discovered that there is a partitioner provided with ubuntu... anyways after its all done.... i install it to my hdd and it gets to 27% done (during file copy) then just sits there idling......... if i multitask it freezes... and the time remaining jumps to a couple 10,000 minutes.

any help? and what file systems does linux like? fat? fat32? fat64? ext2? ext3? etc. (not sure if it was ext)

edit: the partitions im installing to are not ntfs and are obviously compatible as the installer doesn't let you install to incompatible partitions.

this page should help you out http://linux.org.mt/article/filesystems

[franpa]

but why does it freeze/halt/lag at 27% ?

[MadEwokHerd]

If you do anything with ntfs from linux, including resizing, moving, or writing to it, there is a very good chance that you will ruin the partition. Supposedly Linux has gotten better at supporting ntfs, but I don't know how much better. So please, if you're going to make any changes at all to an ntfs partition from within Linux, BACK UP YOUR DATA FIRST.

Linux can generally handle those operations (resizing, moving, writing) fine with fat. It's still a good idea to back things up, but you're not taking nearly as much of a risk with fat as you are with ntfs.

If you want to install Linux, your best bet is to leave unpartitioned space and then let the installer for the Linux distro you want to set up decide what to do with that space (making sure, of course, that it doesn't decide to delete your windows partition or something). It cannot be installed to ntfs or fat.

Edit: I know nothing about the freezing. :(

[evilworm2]

but why does it freeze/halt/lag at 27% ?

Try different boot parameters...
http://ftp.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/ch05s02.html

[franpa]

the partition wizard included with ubuntu linux was ironicaly gpartd...... and it appears to have worked fine at its job... dunno how good it was at making the linux partitions cause i cant install linux to begin with... but it resized my ntfs partitions fine... i can see the results with windows and windows did do a scan disc on the resized drives and reported no errors.

thanks evilworm2 im checking it out now.

edit: none of tho's parameters seem that helpful to my prob.... as the prob occurs during the install - file copy process..... not during detection of anything.

[franpa]

how do i access log files for when the install fails etc.?

[wormthingy]

could it be that your cd is damaged? it happend to me when i first tried to install it

[MadEwokHerd]

Now that you mention it, that happened to me too. Huh..

[franpa]

glad its not just me... i have ordered a free disc yesterday... so i expect it in 4 - 6 eweks. (yes i tried re-installing/re-formatting/re-partitioning etc. etc. and it wont go past 27% during install)

[franpa]

ok - nvidia dont list x86 compliant nor ubuntu compliant video drivers... where do i go to get these? (geforce 6600gt pcie 128mb)

the alsa/creative website's dont list on there sight drivers for soudblaster xtreme music s/c.

----

i got ubuntu linux yesterday :)

[franpa]

dont worry, no need to panic, keep moving, dont stop.

i got someone to help me...

[Plasma]

ZOMG TRIPLE POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!11!!sixty-nine
You die now kthxbye

[franpa]

lols didnt realize it was a triple post, sorry... but i am still having trouble with linux and so far no one has offfered some decent help on what i want to do...

i want to install nvidia display drivers on linux... HOW THE BLOODY HELL do i do this? it cant be rocket science... and don't assume anything except that im knowledgable on linux when posting instructions on how to do this task.

[evilworm2]

i want to install nvidia display drivers on linux... HOW THE BLOODY HELL do i do this? it cant be rocket science... and don't assume anything except that im knowledgable on linux when posting instructions on how to do this task.

It's simple.

1. Download NVidia driver
2. Press CTRL + ALT + F2 to switch to tty2
3. Stop gdm by entering "sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop"
4. Install driver by "sudo sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7184-pkg1.run" (or whatever your driver file is called).
5. Change the driver in your /etc/X11/xorg.conf, too. (from 'nv' to 'nvidia')

[franpa]

oooh, sorry, someone nice on the ubuntu forums actually helped me! i have them installed.

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Dapper#How_to_install_Graphics_Driver_.28NVIDIA.29

[MadEwokHerd]

it cant be rocket science...

Yes it can.

Proprietary drivers for ati and nvidia tend to be a bit harder to get set up for some reason than other drivers (which tend to just work).

[franpa]

no, i was trying to install stuff i got from nvidia website... there was no need in doing that... i just had to do what is said in that link above.