Asiatic Worms Source Code

[yakuza]

I don't know the story behind this (so any enlightenment would be appreciated), by the way the game plays and feels (WWPAQUA or any of the OnlineWorms) I'm guessing they worked from the worms2 source code. And this game is free. So the source code must have been sold to mgame or whatever the company behind making these clones is.

Could the Worms2 source code be given to the community hypothetically if Team17 wanted to?

[Spadge]

It was licensed and adapted for the Korean market some years ago (4-5). We have none of the source I'm afraid.

[CyberShadow]

Hello Martyn,

Glad to see that someone from Team17 still reads these forums.

There was a discussion (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30266) not long ago about possible license changes of W:A's code - specifically making the code, or at least the parts of the code owned by Team17, open-source, or a similar license (so the code could only be used for improving W:A and not allowed to be copied and used outside of W:A, etc). So far, only one developer (David) has been working on the game (since the 3.0 version), and while his efforts and achievements are not to be underestimated, IMHO a lot more could have been done in the years that have passed (and can still be done) if there were more people working on the project - whether the code is open-source, or just shared between those developers. This is further aggravated by the fact that David lately had, unfortunately, little time to work on the game. He has been working on the game for a few years now, and he still has many things planned for W:A - and, IMHO, he could use a bit of help.

This topic has been discussed numerous times, on this forum and other places. The opinion of a Team17 member would be greatly valued and will be an ultimate answer to these questions.

[Spadge]

Unfortunately it's not quite as clear cut as that.

We initially got Dave on board for a few reasons, notably to unify the 2d worms "older stuff" (WWP and WA) and bring back servers and all that.

It's proved difficult mainly due to fragmentation of Licenses, publishers and versions on sale.

This is something we might look at in the future, but for now we're way too busy with other stuff I'm afraid. It's not something we can give out to the general public and let it self-govern itself.

There's some stuff coming (not yet announced) that will ensure that Worms doesn't go away entirely.This will continue into 2007. In some ways we've had to go backwards to go forwards.

[CyberShadow]

Unfortunately it's not quite as clear cut as that.

We initially got Dave on board for a few reasons, notably to unify the 2d worms "older stuff" (WWP and WA) and bring back servers and all that. And it's still not done - looks like it may be a little more than one man can handle.It's proved difficult mainly due to fragmentation of Licenses, publishers and versions on sale.

This is something we might look at in the future, but for now we're way too busy with other stuff I'm afraid. It's not something we can give out to the general public and let it self-govern itself.What about repeating the same thing that has happened with David with a few other skilled programmers, which David could select? Or does that involve something complicated, like being employed by Team17 directly?There's some stuff coming (not yet announced) that will ensure that Worms doesn't go away entirely.This will continue into 2007. In some ways we've had to go backwards to go forwards.I have little hope that it involves something 2D-ish for the PC platform, and even less hope that I will get an answer, but I'll still ask. :)

[Spadge]

And it's still not done - looks like it may be a little more than one man can handle.What about repeating the same thing that has happened with David with a few other skilled programmers, which David could select? Or does that involve something complicated, like being employed by Team17 directly?I have little hope that it involves something 2D-ish for the PC platform, and even less hope that I will get an answer, but I'll still ask. :)

I can't discuss what we're up to right now, for reasons mentioned elsewhere.

[Run]

Do you have an idea of when we're likely to hear something or is that entirely up to the publishers?

[Lex]

Edit: I'd like to point out that this post starts off sounding negative, but turns out to be positive in the end. Please read it.

Martyn, as much as I respect you and know you are busy with game development much more important to Team17 than poor old Worms Armageddon, I would like to point out that, in my humble opinion, you are not seeing the whole picture.

Now, I'm not attacking you or anything like that. I completely understand that you would much rather move forward with your new game creations, rather than continue updating Worms Armageddon after what seems like many more years than any other game development company would deal with. I would just like to point out a specific person to you which you may not be totally aware of. This person is extremely skilled and willing to work for free, if need-be.

This person is CyberShadow, also known as Vladimir Panteleev, who you have been talking to directly in this thread. He doesn't like too much praise, and I tend to give it to him a lot, but in this particular situation, this praise is real and not exaggerated or out-of-place in any way.

Vladimir started playing the Worms series roughly a year ago. He loved it. Eventually, he started to develop incredible things for himself, which he decided would also be wonderful for the whole community to have. He single-handedly programmed his own WormNET server, and an online, dynamic server list to handle the new servers which appear (This is especially good for Team17 because it handles the load of potential complainers when the Team17 server goes down. He could add rankings, too. He's as good with network coding as he is with other coding.). He created an extension framework for WA which allows new features to be added on and called it WormKit. He wrote many modules for WormKit, including an encryption module to help prevent cheating. He made a shell extension to show previews of maps and replays when "Thumbnails" mode is enabled in Windows Explorer. He made a water colour editor entirely on his own in a single night. He started a wiki for Worms, to collect as much data on the second-generation Worms games as possible. He created an extremely well-laid-out plan of what he would do if he had access to the Worms Armageddon source code. He did all of this within the past 8 months. I haven't even mentioned the more advanced things he's done, such as writing out a specific design for optimizing the collision model in Worms Armageddon to help remove in-game lag, and helping David with allowing Fiddler schemes to work in WA. You can ask him more about the details of those projects later. He is a very advanced programmer who could do any programming task asked of him.

His achievements have been the subject of a great deal of discussion in the Worms community. There is no offense intended here, but Vladimir has done much more in the past 8 months without the source code than Deadcode has done in the past year with the source code.

Vladimir has been in deep discussion with David (Deadcode) about improvements to WA. David, recognising Vladimir's advanced programming skills, good nature, and trustworthiness, has been considering asking Team17 to let Vladimir work with him on improving WA for the good of the community. David would probably not want me telling you this as directly as I am right now, but I honestly believe that Vladimir should be, at least, recognised for his efforts.It's not something we can give out to the general public and let it self-govern itself.This is not what Vladimir has been vouching for. He does not want Team17 to simply hand out the WA source code to the entire community and let chaos reign. Vladimir believes, as he has said in the thread he linked (more specifically, this post (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=526564&postcount=6)), that if the source code for WA was contained to a few experienced programmers, that would be good enough to get production rolling at an excellent and exciting pace, for the community and Team17 alike. It would also continue to contain any forking chaos which would attempt to reign.

I'm probably not sounding very clear here. I'm sorry about that. Being a community watcher for 7 years and counting, and also a very good friend of both David and Vladimir, it seems very clear in my mind that Vladimir is the best person for the community who has come along since David.

I sincerely hope you get in contact with Vladimir. He is very responsive and open to intelligent, positive discussion. This would relieve Team17 of the complainers and suchlike, and would be exciting for the WA community, as they would receive wonderful new features and bug fixes.

Let's push things forward.

[Spadge]

I'd suggest that he contacts me by email then - and we'll conduct conversations off this board.

[Lex]

Alright. :) When he comes online tomorrow, I'll tell him about this, then. Well, he'll surely see it on his own.

[Plutonic]

Wow, if this goes ahead I might start getting excited to check the boards again.
Of course, I would love the code myself but CyberShadow is much more the man for the job. Would be awesome to get some of the wormkit modules and other such things including directly, and with more than one person on the jobs there a much higher chance that progress will continue.

[Spadge]

Alright. :) When he comes online tomorrow, I'll tell him about this, then. Well, he'll surely see it on his own.

I'm in contact with him now.

[franpa]

if anything... only good can come from having cybershdw join in the development of Worms Armageddon.

[robowurmz]

Yeah, CyberShdw could be the next Deadcode...

[GoDxWyvern]

They are working together, it's not a replacement. ;)

[Lyndon]

This is the best worms news ive read since Worms 2 came out. Im really excited, I hope they go through with it. Vladimir has proved himself more then worthy to be incalibiration with David.

Thank you Team17 for even considering it. Most companies dont care about the community after a game comes out, its rare few that continue to push updates half a decade past release date.

[Run]

Vladimir has proved himself more then worthy to be incalibiration with David.

You mean "in collaboration", right? ;)

[Lyndon]

You mean "in collaboration", right? ;)

sounds good too