New program for booting players

[evilworm2]

I made a program which lets you boot players from your host easily.
Even in game!

Wanted to know if there is a general interest for such a thingie.
It is written in Java and i would publish the source code too.

To execute it you need a Java Runtime Environment which is available at:
http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

It does not do evil stuff to anyone but only uses the programs
"route" and "netstat" shipped with every Windows operating system.

It has an inbuild "IP to Country Database", which matches the correct flag
to every ip.

Waiting for comments... =)

[Seita]

I'm currently working on a C++ tool intended to the same purpose, but with a most obvious activation. You have to type something in the game chat, so that every player knows it is an Host boot (To prevent from abuses in clan games for example)

Funny that you make that post at the same time.

[Phat Lewt]

Why are you still using C++? Why not switch to Java?

Downloading...

[bonz]

Why are you still using C++? Why not switch to Java?

Why are you still using English? Why not switch to German?

[Phat Lewt]

Why are you still using English? Why not switch to German?
It works, because i'm taking German II at school.

So stfu.:p

[Seita]

I'm still using C++ when C++ fits most.
I'm still using Java when Java fits most.
I'm still using <Insert language there> when it's better to do so.
And I still learn new languages when the ones I know are not appropriate enough.

[SGorilla]

How would you get the right "Victim" if you are playing people from the same country, i assume the ports but in the command line you might find the ports but still not their name...

EDIT: When are you going to give us a download? Oh, and a nice program, i hate having to download big programs for only one feature from it, i like little java/C++ ect. programs.

[evilworm2]

How would you get the right "Victim" if you are playing people from the same country, i assume the ports but in the command line you might find the ports but still not their name...

This is a problem indeed. No solution found yet. It only works 100% accurate if noob is from country 'x' and all other players are from country 'a', 'b' or 'c' (say: different from 'x').

EDIT: When are you going to give us a download?

EDIT:
Very soon... =)
I need some testing on other computers before.

NO DOWNLOAD AT ALL!

[Seita]

evilworm: You can get IP/Nickname combinations when the players join your host. That's what I'm doing and it works well.

[Mil2]

Dude, that's stupid. Imagine now, this software can be use to drop people in a middle of a league game. More cheating! Please, just let it know when it's a drop from this program and a crashed.

[Flamie]

I agree with Mir, this program is nothing but trouble, if you plan on making this program public, you MUST make sure its detectable, and know when people 'kick' someone from their game. If you dont, I would really be ****ed if this program leaked. The only good use I can see made out of this program is cheating in leagues, if someone is annoying you in game you can just ignore him ;o

[evilworm2]

Dude, that's stupid. Imagine now, this software can be use to drop people in a middle of a league game. More cheating! Please, just let it know when it's a drop from this program and a crashed.

I agree with Mir, this program is nothing but trouble, if you plan on making this program public, you MUST make sure its detectable, and know when people 'kick' someone from their game. If you dont, I would really be ****ed if this program leaked. The only good use I can see made out of this program is cheating in leagues, if someone is annoying you in game you can just ignore him ;o

People can already do this. Without my software. It only simplify matters.
;)

Pseudocode:

get all players connected on port 17011 using "netstat";
match IP2country;
set false route to selected player using "route add";
do (while player has disconnected)
check if disconnected;
loop
delete false route;

[Lex]

They are asking you not to "simplify" cheating. I, also, as a mod of FB, would like you not to release this without detectability, also. (Mir is an FB mod and Flamie is an FB admin, as well.)

[Guardian]

Yeah dude, please, please, make the program so it shows in W:A somehow that a boot was made. Seita's idea of having to type something in is good, or working with Deadcode to log it in W:A would be good. Please, please, please do not make this program available without anti-cheating measures. A boot program is a great idea - it should just have to log the boot somehow!

Like Lex said, people are luckily often too lazy to find other ways to cheat and do this, but if you give this program right to them, anyone with any inclination to cheat will do it.

You may think that releasing the program without these measures will be a service to the community... It won't. One of two things will happen, neither of which you want:

A) Deadcode will find a way to edit it out in the next patch.

-or-

B) People with any slight desire to cheat will now cheat rampantly in FB, and FB will close down, the FB forums may close down, and the competitive, skilled aspect of worms will gradually die. From the look of your program this is exactly you don't want to happen. Releasing this program will destory the major surviving worms league, and unless you want that I wouldn't release the program as is. I don't think I'm exaggurating when I say a program distributed to everyone that lets people cheat so easily will do the exact opposite of what you intend. It won't get rid of 'annoying noobs', it will make them all that is left. It will very likely cause the league to go on in a very reduced form, driving away many of the skilled players.

Really think about chaning the program before you release it. I don't want you to do something you'll regret and be hated for by most of wormnet.

~Guardian

[evilworm2]

Why is lagging out similar to losing a game?
People lag out all the time.
I would work the rules over. =)

But i will think about it.

[Flamie]

Because its very easy to "lag out" when you're losing.
As we said, if you wish to release the program, its REALLY recommended that its trackable. Seita's idea is to have be typed in the chatbox this way its shown in the replay. Which is good ;]

[evilworm2]

As we said, if you wish to release the program, its REALLY recommended that its trackable.]

Disconnecting players via netstat and route or via eStop or something
which disconnects established connections isn`t trackable.

I bet people already do this.

[kiros]

I agree with my fellow FB staff... It's hard enough to deal with lagouts as it is. Every case is a brainbreaker. A program like this would garantuee unfair decisions on our part, simply because we don't know or can't prove.

Please don't release this, or make it detectable. Something like this could really ruin worms, rather than make it better. (Which, I'm assuming, is what you want)

[Etho]

Disconnecting players via netstat and route or via eStop or something
which disconnects established connections isn`t trackable.

I bet people already do this.

There may be some that do this; but the point being made is that we do not want people doing that. Your program will only make it much easier for people to, thereby making matters worse.

No program like this should ever be released without it being traceable, without having a majority vote system, or without having some sort of a kill switch. Yours has neither of the three.

[Flamie]

Besides, deadcode has been given the idea of implementing that so many times, but if I recall right, he never thought it was worthy of being made. Specially in such a small community.
What I think would be a great program, is a program to log more accuratly how WA.exe was terminated. Which would truely determine who crashed, and who "crashed".

[Lex]

What I think would be a great program, is a program to log more accuratly how WA.exe was terminated. Which would truely determine who crashed, and who "crashed".Ah, yes, that would be good. I'm sure that would be something Deadcode would want to work something like that into Worms if he read this thread. Something that showed exactly what packets Worms sent and received at the end of a game would be perfect, as that would even show if it was a ridiculous packet sent to one's own game to cause a desynch, among other things. It could be added to the shell menu as something like, "Extract Last Network Packets", or it could be in the exported log. Yeah, it might as well be in the log.

This would be extremely useful for FB mods, as we could just check the replay logs to see exactly what went on. However, the packets would have to be well-encrypted in the replays, so they're uneditable. Also, we would have to add a rule to FB saying: "You must use the latest update for FB games." or else they could just force a disconnection/desynch with an older update.

[M3ntal]

It's still easy to "crash" though, there is technically no difference between your internet connection going down, and you pulling the plug out of your modem.

[bonz]

It's still easy to "crash" though, there is technically no difference between your internet connection going down, and you pulling the plug out of your modem.
Or me disabling my VPN connection...

AFAIR, Deadcode has already argued against a kick feature.

If you release such a program, you can be dead sure that everyone will be using it, because it is simplyfied to a one-click effort. This will definitely result in kicking orgies.

If ever, then Deadcode should officially implement a kick feature with voting, to be sure that it is definitely trackable, and also has a consequence for the planned secure ranking.

[evilworm2]

I updated my program.
Now everytime you boot a player a message is typed in automatically:
"/me has activated BootNoob! - Booting player in progress"

Would that help?

[Lex]

It would help if that message is definitely sent to all players involved. If that's just typed as keyboard input, then it could be easily avoided. So, how is that message written and sent?

[evilworm2]

It would help if that message is definitely sent to all players involved. If that's just typed as keyboard input, then it could be easily avoided. So, how is that message written and sent?

I wrote a script by using AutoIt (http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.php) which waits for WA has the focus again and sends:

-pagedown
-the notification
-enter

So it seems like host has typed this.
This script is wrapped in an exe which must not be decompilated.

In addition my program won`t start without this exe.

[TriMat]

Making it detectable by forcing a chat command also has another advantage - you don't have to minimize WA. I was using eStop for a while but eventually gave it up for Worms stability.

edit: and by the way, eStop already does country detection ;)

[Elliott]

I think this shouldn't be released at all. It will ruin a lot of games. Do not release it, I beg you.

[SGorilla]

You should be able to make a voting system somehow, but if you cant release it anyway, as it has the automatic notification.

[Alien King]

i just want to check...

only the host player can use this program in a game right?

i can't really see how something like this would ruin worms

if someone just wanted to boot people because he was losing, people would soon learn not to join that person's games

for the league matches though...

tracing would probably work as mentioned..

[evilworm2]

only the host player can use this program in a game right?

Yes. You get an error message if you are not hosting and try to scan.

i can't really see how something like this would ruin worms

Me neither.

if someone just wanted to boot people because he was losing, people would soon learn not to join that person's games

Right.

[SGorilla]

So is it finished then?

[evilworm2]

So is it finished then?

It works on my computer but i didn`t test it on others.

[KRD]

How this would ruin Worms? It's pretty simple, most of the Wormers who are considered to be skilled play league games 90% of their time spent on WA. A good half of them spends a large ammount of time thinking about how to get out of losses.

[[UFP]Ghost]

you've made a great thing but i'm totally against it, give me 3 reasons why you need to kick people?

i can only think of 1, but thats just me.

[Run]

Ghost']give me 3 reasons why you need to kick people?

i can only think of 1, but thats just me.

I love the unintentional implication behind that sentence.

[evilworm2]

Ghost']you've made a great thing but i'm totally against it, give me 3 reasons why you need to kick people?


1. People who **** up game because the do nothing on their turn.
2. People who insult you.
3. I am the master of my computer and may kick everyone connected.

[Lex]

i can't really see how something like this would ruin wormsMe neither.Have you ever been a moderator for a Worms league and had to figure out whether someone who disconnected from a league game forced their disconnection or disconnected accidentally? I can tell you from experience that it's not an easy task. With this program being so readily-available and well-known and easy to use, any player who is afraid they might lose a certain game, or wants to ensure their win if they are leading, could simply force the disconnection of their opponent. By doing this, the mods would be unable to tell if they got disconnected from their opponent against their will or forced their disconnection. They would be inclined to report their win, claiming something like, "I was in the lead and my opponent lagged out." Now, this person may look completely innocent and you'd want to sympathize with them and give them the win, but they may also have forced their opponent's disconnection. With you making this disconnection method so readily-available, devious action like this would become much more commonplace and it would ruin leagues, which are the main source for entertainment of skilled wormers.

Before you retort that it's already available and easy to do: yes, I know that. However, most players presently do not consider the idea because it's not in their general repetoire of Worms knowledge. Your program would increase exposure of this function to many more people than who know about it now.

[bonz]

1. People who **** up game because the do nothing on their turn.
Well, someone has suggested a nice idea in the wishlist thread to remedy that problem:
After a player has done nothing (i.e. not moved his worm) and has not set /AFK, he will automatically set to /AFK the next turn.
2. People who insult you.
You can use the ignore feature.
3. I am the master of my computer and may kick everyone connected.
Yes, but why let them connect in the first place then? ;)
Your program would increase exposure of this function to many more people than who know about it now.
That's the main argument against it, IMO.

[Alien King]

Have you ever been a moderator for a Worms league and had to figure out whether someone who disconnected from a league game forced their disconnection or disconnected accidentally? I can tell you from experience that it's not an easy task. With this program being so readily-available and well-known and easy to use, any player who is afraid they might lose a certain game, or wants to ensure their win if they are leading, could simply force the disconnection of their opponent. By doing this, the mods would be unable to tell if they got disconnected from their opponent against their will or forced their disconnection. They would be inclined to report their win, claiming something like, "I was in the lead and my opponent lagged out." Now, this person may look completely innocent and you'd want to sympathize with them and give them the win, but they may also have forced their opponent's disconnection. With you making this disconnection method so readily-available, devious action like this would become much more commonplace and it would ruin leagues, which are the main source for entertainment of skilled wormers.

Before you retort that it's already available and easy to do: yes, I know that. However, most players presently do not consider the idea because it's not in their general repetoire of Worms knowledge. Your program would increase exposure of this function to many more people than who know about it now.

the league games are an exception to my statement

i did say that the idea of making it tracable would probably work for the league games

[TriMat]

You can use the ignore feature.

Yes, but why let them connect in the first place then? ;)


Because some people only start causing problems when they know they're safely in the game.

You shouldn't have to put up with people who are ruining the game if there's a way around it. I'm all for evil's 3rd reason. MY computer and I'M the host. Yeah sure I could end the game, start over, wait again for more people to join and hope the guy hasn't just changed his name which is extremely easy to do. But why would I want to if I've already got a good game going?

And the whole thing with league games. If the notification works the way he said it does I don't see how that would change the situation. If people use evil's program you'll see it. And if they boot any other way then they'll just be doing what they've already been doing.

The thing I'd like to see in this program is a command to ACTIVATE it, rather than a notification after the action. No worms minimizing!

edit: Since your program currently notifies after the boot, do you still get the message in a 1v1 game (league)? Used in that case, the game ends once they disconnect and you can't send messages.

[MadEwokHerd]

3. I am the master of my computer and may kick everyone connected.

This is tough for me to form an opinion (and no one will care what I think anyway because I rarely play online anymore). Yes, you are, and yes, you can. This does not mean you have to help others do so.

I would say hold off until the patch is more mature. I'm particularly looking at the ability to resume aborted network games. I think this could lessen the adverse effects of your program on leagues/whatever. When actual network errors occur, players will be able to resume the game later. Those who have a lot of network errors and never resume games could be fairly penalized.

I would not say hold off forever. All it does is make more clear what people were already able to do to begin with. People will have to adapt to that, and it will be much better if they face it directly.

Edit: I would also say that notification is NOT helpful if anyone can send it. Are in-game messages secure? Will W:A reject forged messages (i.e. if the host gets a message that claims to be from the host, will that show up?)? Can someone add a fake message from another player to his own replay?

[evilworm2]

Since your program currently notifies after the boot, do you still get the message in a 1v1 game (league)? Used in that case, the game ends once they disconnect and you can't send messages.

1. It notifies before the boot.
2. It is a forced line of chatting. You definitely see this in the replay.

[Djoszee]

There may be some that do this; but the point being made is that we do not want people doing that. Your program will only make it much easier for people to, thereby making matters worse.

No program like this should ever be released without it being traceable, without having a majority vote system, or without having some sort of a kill switch. Yours has neither of the three.
nice statement :)

[[UFP]Ghost]

u can't even thing of reasons for wanting it, other than the 1 valid one which is a mean person who eaither does nothing for turn in a row (but auto /afk after first turn would fix) or possibly if someone is just not follow the rules on purpose. but just cause someone isn't moving doesn't mean u should kick them. so i cannot even thing of 3 reasons myself, as he said i was implying that that arn't 3. This tool is uterly useless if u wanna kick someone kick em before the game. done and done. i'v never wanted to boot anyone from a game myself.

so then unless u can prove this tool would actually have a reason to be used then why even use it.

[evilworm2]

Ghost']i'v never wanted to boot anyone from a game myself.
so then unless u can prove this tool would actually have a reason to be used then why even use it.

I sometimes want to boot people from my game. And there are many more who want this.
This tool has its right to exist.

[Alien King]

Ghost']u can't even thing of reasons for wanting it, other than the 1 valid one which is a mean person who eaither does nothing for turn in a row (but auto /afk after first turn would fix) or possibly if someone is just not follow the rules on purpose. but just cause someone isn't moving doesn't mean u should kick them. so i cannot even thing of 3 reasons myself, as he said i was implying that that arn't 3. This tool is uterly useless if u wanna kick someone kick em before the game. done and done. i'v never wanted to boot anyone from a game myself.

so then unless u can prove this tool would actually have a reason to be used then why even use it.

you probably won't know that someone is going to act completely stupid until you start playing

if someone is not following rules and doesn't know how to chat ingame (which happens a lot), this would prove helpful (especially if you could leave a little pop-up box when you boot someone where you can type a message)

i'm amazed you have never found a reason to want to boot someone

[Run]

I sometimes want to boot people from my game. And there are many more who want this.
This tool has its right to exist.

Of course it does.

But perhaps you should keep it to yourself. That way at least you can know it's not being used for malicious purposes. Nobody's saying you should delete it, the only thing being argued here is whether you should release it.

And given that you only stand the lose reputation, not gain reputation, by releasing it, then the only logical course of action you can take is to keep it to yourself.

[evilworm2]

And given that you only stand the lose reputation, not gain reputation, by releasing it, then the only logical course of action you can take is to keep it to yourself.

I don`t want to gain reputation. I just want to share a tool which fills a gap.

[TriMat]

Originally Posted by Etho
There may be some that do this; but the point being made is that we do not want people doing that. Your program will only make it much easier for people to, thereby making matters worse.

No program like this should ever be released without it being traceable, without having a majority vote system, or without having some sort of a kill switch. Yours has neither of the three.

nice statement :)

I disagree.

You're worried about hosts easily booting people? Guess what, they already can - before the game starts. If given the option of being able to boot either before or during the game, I'll take during the game, when I know who's playing appropriately or not.

"No program like this should ever be released without..."
it being traceable - it is.
a majority vote system - Are you serious? Consider the word "host." If you come to a party at my house and act like a jerk I don't ask everyone if it's ok to kick you out.
a kill switch - see previous statement.

[evilworm2]

A majority vote system - Are you serious? Consider the word "host." If you come to a party at my house and act like a jerk I don't ask everyone if it's ok to kick you out.


That`s the point. I DO want to decide who is connected to my computer and who is not.

[Run]

I don`t want to gain reputation. I just want to share a tool which fills a gap.

You want to help the community, you mean?

Because if so I think I know what you shouldn't do.

[evilworm2]

You want to help the community, you mean?
Because if so I think I know what you shouldn't do.

What?
Fighting with a lion?
Roping in real life?
Eating poisonous mushrooms?

I don`t get it. =)

[Run]

All I'm trying to say is that there is no need to release it. You have nothing to gain. There's no motivation to do so. There's no point. The topic is clouded with controversy and the only way you can appease everyone is by not releasing it.

You've got it for yourself; that's all you need.

If you think releasing it to the community is doing the community a favour, then this thread has shown quite clearly that that's not the case.

To release it after all this would be stupid, careless, and destructive.

That's my final post on this topic because there really isn't anything more to say.

[evilworm2]

All I'm trying to say is that there is no need to release it.

There is the eligibility to release it, because there is no official way to boot people in game.

You have nothing to gain. There's no motivation to do so. There's no point.

I never wanted to gain something. I wanted to share something.

The topic is clouded with controversy

True.

and the only way you can appease everyone is by not releasing it.

This is YOUR opinion.

If you think releasing it to the community is doing the community a favour, then this thread has shown quite clearly that that's not the case.

No, it didn`t.

To release it after all this would be stupid, careless, and destructive.

Hello?
1. People know how to boot.
2. My program is traceable.
3. It makes life easier.

[bonz]

There is the eligibility to release it, because there is no official way to boot people in game.
Team17, a game developer that has been producing computer games since the Amiga days, probably had a reason not to include a kick-function.
1. People know how to boot.
1. Only few people know how to boot, and even fewer actually do it.

[evilworm2]

Team17, a game developer that has been producing computer games since the Amiga days, probably had a reason not to include a kick-function.

I`ve been producing computer games since the Amiga days too.
I have a reason to include this feature.

[Etho]

I stand by my statement.
No program like this should ever be released without it being traceable, without having a majority vote system, or without having some sort of a kill switch. Yours has neither of the three.


1. The program was not made traceable when I made my post. Even now it has potential problems because a system that sends keystrokes isn't perfect.

2. You need to understand that this program is going to cause the most problems for league games. For example, in a 2v2 game the host could choose to disconnect 1 of his opponents so that it becomes a 2v1. How do you deal with this? You could call the game void but then people may do this if their team is losing. This situation would be impossible if a 50%+ boot system was implemented.

Some hosts are just plain morons and may become trigger happy. Somebody accidently forgets to touch both walls in a w2w and boom he's gone. Now all his friends are upset about the boot, so they leave and the game ends. If a host is truly unhappy with a game he will leave anyways.

3. What's wrong with a kill switch? If something goes wrong in the worms community by having such a potentially problematic program, it would be best if you could choose to disable it.

[evilworm2]

Even now it has potential problems because a system that sends keystrokes isn't perfect.


I send you the part of the program which does the notification, if you like to.
If you can manipulate it, i won`t release it.
If not, i will.


Update:
Here is the notifiying part of my program.
Just play W:A, minimize and start the exe by doubleclick.

What it does:
After you went back to game, wait a sec and then the notifier types:
/me Hello i am the notification
in the chat box

Due to the 100kb limit of this forum i had to split the file:

Detailed instructions:
Make a new directory
Copy the two files to this directory
Leave notifier.zip as it is
Rename the notifier2.zip to notifier.z01
Unpack notifier.zip

If you need a good Zip program i recommend:
http://www.powerarchiver.com/

[[UFP]Ghost]

But perhaps you should keep it to yourself. That way at least you can know it's not being used for malicious purposes. Nobody's saying you should delete it, the only thing being argued here is whether you should release it.

all this can really lead to is a lot of unhappy people, an example in a post before about a host being trigger happy, this will only ruin games more, why nto make a program more useful where in stead of kicking it can someone make the players chatbox come down so he can see what ur typing. booting is a waist and not intended for the game.

and like i quoted i'm not against the making of such a program for urself, but against u releasing it, you can't possibly do any good by releasing it and i assure u it will cause harm. like in one of those many movies, people always go with the best of intentions but it don't always come out so good.

[evilworm2]

Ghost']like in one of those many movies, people always go with the best of intentions but it don't always come out so good.

I don`t watch any movies.
Movies only exist in my brain.

[[UFP]Ghost]

lol nice comeback but u know i'm right.

[TriMat]

Trigger happy goes both ways - you already have players who leave on a whim. How often do you come across a host who does the same? Wouldn't you rather have the host kick 1 player than kill the whole game?

[Lex]

I send you the part of the program which does the notification, if you like to.
If you can manipulate it, i won`t release it.
If not, i will.I downloaded and ran it. The only thing I needed to do was run it and not ever maximize WA. That way, the message didn't ever get typed out. This method could easily be used in 1-vs-1 league games, especially because WA automatically maximizes when the game is over, at which point, there would be no opponent to send the message to and no game for the message to be recorded in.

I know you had good intentions, but please find another way of encoding the boot into the replay (perhaps by adding something undetectable to the .WAgame file's header at the end of the game).

[evilworm2]

I downloaded and ran it. The only thing I needed to do was run it and not ever maximize WA. That way, the message didn't ever get typed out. This method could easily be used in 1-vs-1 league games, especially because WA automatically maximizes when the game is over, at which point, there would be no opponent to send the message to and no game for the message to be recorded in.

Oh..Ok.. Never thought that people wouldn`t maximize again. First idea was to force maximation after starting this but it wasn`t possible.
I got a black screen when doing this.

I know you had good intentions, but please find another way of encoding the boot into the replay (perhaps by adding something undetectable to the .WAgame file's header at the end of the game).

Ok. Will do. No release until boot is 100% detectable.

[[UFP]Ghost]

Trigger happy goes both ways - you already have players who leave on a whim. How often do you come across a host who does the same? Wouldn't you rather have the host kick 1 player than kill the whole game?

i'm not saying that this thing doesn't have anything good about it, or has no good use, i'm just syaing the bad outways the good. it's not worth all the bad for the little bit of good.

[Lex]

Ok. Will do. No release until boot is 100% detectable.Thank you very much. Your intentions are good. :) Plus, this way, you'll learn a bit more deep programming than sending keystrokes. :)

[Seita]

Triggering it from the game works, just typing "GoobyeBoot <playername>".
That enables it to work even from wwp, since there is no need to minimize the game.

Good point is that it appears in the chat, in both replays.

Bad point is that ingame chat can currently be added / removed / modified from replays, so it doesn't really solve anything, except that booted player knows for sure that he got booted, even if he has no failsafe proof.

No release planned from my side, either.

[KRD]

Just another point I'd like to make.

When you kick someone who doesn't know how to read the chat [another, probably better, idea would be to tell them to get the latest patch before the game], they won't know what happened and may well conclude that the game they've just spent money on isn't working well. This results in direct damage to Team17's reputation.

The person who has released the program that enabled that to happen is held responsible and, against all odds, finds himself going to jail.

[evilworm2]

Just another point I'd like to make.

When you kick someone who doesn't know how to read the chat [another, probably better, idea would be to tell them to get the latest patch before the game], they won't know what happened and may well conclude that the game they've just spent money on isn't working well. This results in direct damage to Team17's reputation.

The person who has released the program that enabled that to happen is held responsible and, against all odds, finds himself going to jail.

lol lol lol lol

Send microsoft to jail then.
Send the guys who invented internet to jail then.
Send the noob himself to jail then.

[TN2003]

Just another point I'd like to make.

When you kick someone who doesn't know how to read the chat [another, probably better, idea would be to tell them to get the latest patch before the game], they won't know what happened and may well conclude that the game they've just spent money on isn't working well. This results in direct damage to Team17's reputation.

The person who has released the program that enabled that to happen is held responsible and, against all odds, finds himself going to jail.

It says "Press page down to read the chat" or something similar at the beginning of the game, so that argument doesn't really count...

[KRD]

Obviously they don't have the latest version of the patch if it doesn't. Then again, I can imagine some people find all the rules you've come up with in your schemes too silly to bother responding to someone calling them a farm animal.

Edit: That's the general version of "you" there.

Evilworm: Okay, it's an unlikely example, but tell my why it doesn't hold water? Team17 doesn't force you to play their game that's based on random people directly connecting to your computer. If you didn't want that happening, you wouldn't play the game in the first place. By disconnecting people [or distributing a tool that lets everyone else do it the easy way], you aren't helping the community, all in all. What everyone should do with people not obeying rules is teach them how to play the scheme properly; that's what I do.

And the percentage of people who know the rules but in the middle of the game start acting like they don't with the intention to spoil your mental health is just so amazingly low it's not worth taking the risk and releasing a tool like that.

Besides, programs like this have been made before and overall people agreed that we'll be just fine waiting for a vote kick option built into the game. Patience.

[Guardian]

Thank you very much. Your intentions are good. :) Plus, this way, you'll learn a bit more deep programming than sending keystrokes. :)

Thank you! :) <3.

~Guardian

[[UFP]Ghost]

Evilworm: Okay, it's an unlikely example, but tell my why it doesn't hold water? Team17 doesn't force you to play their game that's based on random people directly connecting to your computer. If you didn't want that happening, you wouldn't play the game in the first place. By disconnecting people [or distributing a tool that lets everyone else do it the easy way], you aren't helping the community, all in all. What everyone should do with people not obeying rules is teach them how to play the scheme properly; that's what I do.

And the percentage of people who know the rules but in the middle of the game start acting like they don't with the intention to spoil your mental health is just so amazingly low it's not worth taking the risk and releasing a tool like that.

Besides, programs like this have been made before and overall people agreed that we'll be just fine waiting for a vote kick option built into the game. Patience.

1. lets just say he read my mind, i don't really like the vote kick just cause i don't wnat kicking but i could live with that. He basically wrote what i would have replied, he knows what hes saying, listen to him!

2. I siad " people always go with the best of intentions but it don't always come out so good." Lex said your intentions are good and i agree with that but wasn't hitlers plan to kill all of us Jews his good intentions of saving his race?

think about it good intent isn't enough to justify if u shoudl release it or not

3. TO: KRD - aside from that: Nice going, it's great when people teach epople how to play as opposed to wish (and later will be bale to, unless he doesn'r release it like i i don't want him to) kick them.

[evilworm2]

Ghost']2. I siad " people always go with the best of intentions but it don't always come out so good." Lex said your intentions are good and i agree with that but wasn't hitlers plan to kill all of us Jews his good intentions of saving his race?

Erm... You want to compare me with Hitler?
Because i wrote this program?

Are you serious?

[[UFP]Ghost]

lol it's just to show that u have good intentions and u shouldn't release it

althoughy it could start ww3 (worms war 3) - u could be the hitler of worms

[bonz]

It says "Press page down to read the chat" or something similar at the beginning of the game, so that argument doesn't really count...
It does only say this in English.
What if people don't understand that language?
It hasn't been translated yet.
Ghost']hitler of worms
This is serious. :eek:
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=445617&postcount=16

[MadEwokHerd]

Edit: quoting a previous post for clarity
Ghost']u could be the hitler of worms

No, he can't. KuFnEr already took that position. ;) (apologies to KuFnEr; it's not his fault the wormnet protocol sucked..or at least wasn't designed for much security)

Seriously, comparisons to Hitler do not belong in this discussion. No one here denies that one's actions can have a negative effect even when the intentions are good. You do not need to hammer in that point.

As for going to jail, I doubt it based on the way (I assume) the program is currently set up. AFAIK it doesn't interact with the worms exe at all except in ways a human could use: forcing connections to close, switching windows, and sending keystrokes. Maybe if it were at a lower level (dealing with the actual machine code for example), but even then I don't know how the law works.

Of course, I still stand by what I said earlier. You might want to hold off releasing this because we aren't as prepared as we will likely be in the future, but DO NOT hold off forever. This is a technical problem that we have to deal with (namely that hosts can kick people out of games, if that's a problem), and it will be much better if we face it straight on instead of ignoring it and hoping no one notices.

[bonz]

KuFnEr
Burn in -Hell! :eek:

('Tis an oldschool hell. ;))

[[UFP]Ghost]

unless one of u guys says something really bad or possibly atleast for a while theres no point in even posting, u all know my strong view and i see no point in further ways to say it, all i really need to say is:

Don't Release It

[evilworm2]

Ghost']Don't Release It

Don`t be afraid, as i said 15 posts before i won`t release it until it is definitely detectable.

I am making a new program anyway. ;)

If WWP supports color maps:
Anyone know where WWP stores its stuff in the registry?
W:A is HKCU\Software\Team17SoftwareLTD\WormsArmageddon.
Since i don`t have WWP it would be nice if someone can tell me.

[GoDxWyvern]

W:A is HKCU\\Software\\Team17SoftwareLTD\\WormsArmageddon
WWP is HKCU\\Software\\Team17SoftwareLTD\\WormsWorldParty ;)

If WWP supports color maps:
Hmm, what do you mean? WWP does not support colour maps.

[Lex]

Ooooh! Perhaps you could get in contact with Annelid and he could help you with the .BIT decoding/encoding.

[Devoluti0n]

Btw, Anne code his programs in Vb6 (net ?) and evilworms2 code his i, java :) .

Btw, What do you use to code it plz ?

[evilworm2]

Btw, Anne code his programs in Vb6 (net ?) and evilworms2 code his i, java :) .

Btw, What do you use to code it plz ?


I'm still using C++ when C++ fits most.
I'm still using Java when Java fits most.
I'm still using <Insert language there> when it's better to do so.
And I still learn new languages when the ones I know are not appropriate enough.

All is said. =)

[Lex]

Btw, Anne code his programs in Vb6 (net ?) and evilworms2 code his i, java :) .Yes. However, Annelid is the wormer, other than Deadcode, who knows most about encoding and decoding .BIT files. It really doesn't matter what language he used to make his BITmonkey, as it uses the same DLLs as WA uses. All Annelid needed to know was how to use those DLLs.

[Muzer]

Is the program actually RELEASED...
/me is confused

[Lex]

Which program? You'd probably know the answer to your question if you read the thread.

[Muzer]

I have but I got confused...

[evilworm2]

No release until boot is 100% detectable.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[Elliott]

I promise that if you release it, I will find away around the message and abuse it as much as I can. That will teach you that people will abuse it.

[Devoluti0n]

I promise that if you release it, I will find away around the message and abuse it as much as I can. That will teach you that people will abuse it.
Wtf, I never saw anything as sad as you said ...
We all arn't like you ...
Indeed, If everybody was like you, Worms Will be a very sad game... Try to think before post !

You have nothing to learn to Anyone ! And if you have some freetime to lose You could stop to come on this forum ...

[Alien King]

I promise that if you release it, I will find away around the message and abuse it as much as I can. That will teach you that people will abuse it.

people will quickly learn not to join your games

[evilworm2]

I promise that if you release it, I will find away around the message and abuse it as much as I can.

That will proof that you are a noob since real men don`t need my tool to boot players. =)

[Elliott]

You've just shown why you don't need to release it.

[TriMat]

You've just shown why you don't need to release it.Whoever said he needed to?

[[UFP]Ghost]

i'm sorry i didn't want to post about it cause u knwo my view but i have to say, man that is one loser :p

[bonz]

Indeed.
If there were no people like Elliot, there wouldn't be any abuse.
And no need to boot people in the first place.

[Etho]

I don't believe Elliott was being serious when he made that post. He was just proving his point in a stylish fashon. No need to insult him.

[[UFP]Ghost]

there are people like that so u never know

[evilworm2]

He was just proving his point in a stylish fashon

Stylish? Inconsiderately!

[Alien King]

I don't believe Elliott was being serious when he made that post. He was just proving his point in a stylish fashon. No need to insult him.

not really

he was proving how desperate he is to prove his point though

[[UFP]Ghost]

did we win? was it ever released?

[evilworm2]

Ghost']did we win? was it ever released?
no




The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

[bonz]

Hey, evilworm2, if this is ever going to be released, how about making it a module for CyberShdw's Wormkit?

[evilworm2]

Hey, evilworm2, if this is ever going to be released, how about making it a module for CyberShdw's Wormkit?

nice idea but the problem is:
people don`t want that this software will be released.

[Alien King]

i'm in favour of this being released

[bonz]

people don`t want that this software will be released.
Actually, I don't care anymore.
If you don't release your tool, someone else will make one sooner or later.

[[UFP]Ghost]

hes right.... we may have won the battle but i doubt we'll win the war.

[evilworm2]

a poll for clarity?

[[UFP]Ghost]

ok, sure go for it.

[BADAZZ]

i think you should make the program..:D :cool:

[evilworm2]

a poll for clarity?

Here`s the official poll:
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28771

[KRD]

Actually, I don't care anymore.
If you don't release your tool, someone else will make one sooner or later.

However that someone might keep it to himself. Better than every irresponsible, easy-to-upset, self-confident 11-year-old kicking people ouf of games for whatever reason it may be.

And I still think explaining people how a scheme works does the job better than getting rid of them.

[evilworm2]

And I still think explaining people how a scheme works does the job better than getting rid of them.

True.
But imagine this (it happened to me):

You host a game and everything`s fine but a player cows repeatedly.
You tell him: Hey you that is against the rules which are:
*rulefoo*
You ask him if he understood. He reaffirms over and over again that he
understood. But (you guessed it) he keeps on cowing (due to weird ulterior motives).

And now?

[Alien King]

However that someone might keep it to himself. Better than every irresponsible, easy-to-upset, self-confident 11-year-old kicking people ouf of games for whatever reason it may be.

And I still think explaining people how a scheme works does the job better than getting rid of them.

if there was a message you could leave behind, explaining the rules and why he was kicked, then it would be good

[KRD]

The cases of people intentionally messing up games do happen, yeh. But they're rare and from my experience kicking those people out of the game will normally result in them getting even more annoyed at the fact that they couldn't fit in last game that they won't bother trying again. Ever. Or start flaming you in #AG after the game with low-imagination curse words.

On the other hand if you just politely tell them to try and see if they can do about what everyone else in the game is doing and somehow persuade them not to give up, some of them will actually find it enjoyable after they start getting it right.

Okay this may be sociology and psychology, but in most ocasions I've witnessed that was the case.

And a message after you've kicked someone is definetley a good idea. But somehow I feel not everyone would bother with encouraging notes after someone has ruined a game for them. I suppose it is better than just cutting them off, though.

[LeBronimo]

_R_E_L_E_A_S_E_ it please^^

[Coolio145]

If he does not release it, he can still use it for himself since hes the only one who will have it...:-/