Notes about the renderers [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Muzer
19 Dec 2012, 23:14
I thought I'd just list here some info about the renderers and which ones to use.
I'll also say some of this might be wrong, as I've recounted this from memory without much checking. Please point out if I'm wrong.
First, a general note - all the actual rendering is done in software with *all* the renderers, and changing the renderer just changes how the result is drawn to the screen. So it's probably the case that CPU usage will be slightly higher than it was (like in the Steam version), though this hasn't been scientifically tested as far as I know.
Direct3D 9 (shader): This renderer acts most like modern games; this means that things like overlays (eg the Steam overlay, other things that interact directly with DirectX games like screen recorders/streamers, etc.) will work. It uses a GPU shader to perform the conversion from 8-bit paletted graphics, so it should also be as fast as possible (keeping CPU usage down). It requires a GPU with sufficient shader support (Pixel Shader 2.0 according to the readme) - most even vaguely modern systems should support this, and it's the recommended one to use as long as you don't have a very old system and don't experience other problems. Note that a known bug only discovered at the last minute is that this mode doesn't play well with mutliple monitors on Windows 7 (and perhaps Windows 8, this hasn't been tested); to work around this, enable the "Disable desktop composition" option in the compatibility tab in the preferences dialog for WA.exe, or use Direct3D 7.
Direct3D 9 (CPU): As above, but uses the CPU instead of a shader to perform the conversion from 8-bit paletted graphics. It's therefore going to be slightly harder on the CPU, but probably the best option if your GPU is old enough not to support the shaders (or is buggy).
Direct3D 7: Similar to Direct3D 9 (CPU), but uses Direct3D 7 instead. Useful if you're running an older Windows than XP and can't run Direct3D 9 or experience problems with Direct3D 9.
DirectDraw (32-bit): This is pretty much how the first Steam version worked, and I believe the new default. This works in quite a close way to the old game but using software palette conversion, making palette issues a thing of the past even if you still have to use DirectDraw. If you have issues with all the Direct3D modes, this is probably the one to go for.
DirectDraw (8-bit): This is as close as possible (with the software renderer) as to how the old game rendered its graphics. It might well be slightly faster than DirectDraw 32-bit because it might use the graphics card to do palette conversion (though this again hasn't been scientifically tested), but it will have all the old palette issues we all know and hate. If you can't use the Direct3D modes for whatever reason, AND you also can't use DirectDraw 32-bit, go for this one.
Extra options
You will also notice some extra options in advanced options that depend on the renderer.
Wait for vertical sync: Available in all renderers. Enabled, there can be input lag on some systems with some renderers, but disabled there will be screen tearing and a high CPU usage.
Assisted vertical sync: Available in both Direct3D 9 renderers. Enabled, helps alleviate input lag with the "Wait for vertical sync" option enabled on some systems but makes it worse on other systems... This can be enabled without "Wait for vertical sync" where it acts as a frame limiter but does not prevent tearing, so is not likely to be of any use.
Set Windows compatibility flags: Sets a registry key that should help with the DirectDraw modes on Windows 8. Has no effect on other renderers or operating systems.
Use desktop window: Makes the DirectDraw modes work in wine (on Linux) at the expense of ingame minimisation. Sadly wine users still have to use this, as the other renderers still don't work.
Use hardware cursors: Available in all renderers, helps alleviate input lag in the menu by using hardware to draw the cursor. Disable if you experience mouse issues.
Palette fix: The old palette fix option for the old 8-bit DirectDraw mode. Use if you insist on using this for whatever reason, it should work as it always did.

Pac-Man
20 Dec 2012, 17:45
Good to see that... the default option is a horrible choice...

Muzer
20 Dec 2012, 18:01
The main reason the default option is as it is is because the Direct3D modes haven't been widely tested.

Pac-Man
20 Dec 2012, 18:31
And probably to meet the default old minimum system requirements. I bet Team17 said nono to increasing the minimum sysreqs (once again).

StepS
20 Dec 2012, 19:28
at least if the Windows 8 compatibility proposition pop-up enabled Direct3D 9 rather than a registry fix. but i hope it'll be the Steam default

Muzer
20 Dec 2012, 19:42
at least if the Windows 8 compatibility proposition pop-up enabled Direct3D 9 rather than a registry fix. but i hope it'll be the Steam default
Same thing - so few people (relatively speaking) were able to test real-world (not VM) Windows 8 support it was thought to be more likely to work on more systems to use the old tried-and-tested renderer with the registry fix in case there is a major problem with D3D 9. If D3D9 turns out to work flawlessly on every system, perhaps it'll be changed in a later version.

KRD
20 Dec 2012, 21:06
And probably to meet the default old minimum system requirements. I bet Team17 said nono to increasing the minimum sysreqs (once again).
Have you tested this? On my system, CPU usage was lower with the new renderers when I did the comparisons.

Pac-Man
20 Dec 2012, 23:07
yeah but old systems do not have a DX9 compatible graphics card, and the sysreqs also said only a DX7 card is required. and on that systems DX7 is still hw accelerated = less cpu usage, that's what i mean

Muzer
20 Dec 2012, 23:10
yeah but old systems do not have a DX9 compatible graphics card, and the sysreqs also said only a DX7 card is required. and on that systems DX7 is still hw accelerated = less cpu usage, that's what i mean
I find that unlikely considering the game itself installs DX6. Which requirements are these?

Pac-Man
20 Dec 2012, 23:19
than it was even DX6, i dont remember anymore. i just remember cybershadow saying something about "we should try to keep the system requirements like they were in the original release"

CyberShadow
21 Dec 2012, 02:08
I'm glad I didn't make Direct3D the default. Just a few days before the release we discovered that on some systems with Windows 7 and multiple monitors, starting W:A with the Direct3D 9 renderer causes the system to continuously change resolutions and making it very hard to quit W:A. If it were made the default, some people would be unable to start W:A at all after updating... and who knows how many other compatibility problems might be out there that we haven't found in our limited testing!

franpa
21 Dec 2012, 06:09
In any case, you'd probably find yourself limited to 640x480 when running at the original minimum requirements and no hope for large maps.

StepS
21 Dec 2012, 17:08
Windows 7 and multiple monitors
what about Windows 8? That and Steam were the only propositions. The multiple monitors' presence could be checked as well, if it was found before the release, as you're saying.
Rough example: if we compare cons, then it would be like 90% of issues under Windows 8 DirectDraw (still some bad frame drops can occur in-game on some systems even with the registry options, which is why I told you back then that the solution was not final and why the new renderers were needed. I wonder whether any of the new (Direct3D) renderers would be made without our talks), and only minority with mega monitors
but as always that's just my opinion, you don't have to follow it :)

CyberShadow
22 Dec 2012, 02:38
Not being able to play the game at all by default is much worse than getting bad performance by default.
I wonder whether any of the new (Direct3D) renderers would be made without our talksYes. I can't believe you said that! You realize it's not all about Windows 8? I've attempted an OpenGL renderer back in September.

StepS
22 Dec 2012, 10:11
http://forum.team17.co.uk/images/newsmilies/happy.gif

Pac-Man
22 Dec 2012, 15:01
it was an error to put a "thanks to steps" in the readme, now he wants more and more credits for more and more things
that's why the world will end :(
:mad:
:)

StepS
22 Dec 2012, 17:00
also, you said this problem can be fixed by Disabling desktop composition. Keep in mind that the Aero in Windows 8 is truncated and therefore there's no such option at all in the system.
It must be thoroughly tested on Windows 8 and not Windows 7.
It makes it doubtful whether this issue also touches Windows 8, which again was my only target.
now he wants more and more credits for more and more thinks
nope

Pac-Man
22 Dec 2012, 17:37
things*
what the heck did i write

`CaTa`
14 Jan 2013, 16:16
Hi,
When I use Direct3D 9 (CPU), Direct3D 9 (Shader) or Direct3D 7 my computer freeze and I've to use the reset button. Thats annoying because DirectDraw option is clearly slower than Direct3D. Is there a solution to fix that ?
Goog job for that update !!

StepS
14 Jan 2013, 22:10
Hi,
When I use Direct3D 9 (CPU), Direct3D 9 (Shader) or Direct3D 7 my computer freeze and I've to use the reset button. Thats annoying because DirectDraw option is clearly slower than Direct3D. Is there a solution to fix that ?
Goog job for that update !!
what system are you using?

`CaTa`
17 Jan 2013, 21:21
what system are you using?
Hi StepS,
I'm using Windows Seven. I forgot to precise that the screen shutdown 5-10 secs before the computer freeze.
Screen connected by HMDI to DVI adapter on GPU with HDMI.

Obn3g0n
18 Jan 2013, 05:39
CaTa, where does the game freeze? At the first screen/menu? Or does it freeze when you try to start a game?

`CaTa`
18 Jan 2013, 21:13
CaTa, where does the game freeze? At the first screen/menu? Or does it freeze when you try to start a game?
Hi Obn3g0n,
Sorry if I didnt explained my problem with more details. When I host a game there is no problem, people can join the "waiting room". When all lights up, I launch the game by clicking on "Start Game" (of course :p), game loads normally until now. After some minuts of playing, sometimes 2-3 mins, sometimes 5-10 mins, the screen (display, LCD, etc.) turnoff but computer is still running because I can hear the music in the headphones, and 20 secs max. after that the screen (display, LCD, etc.) turned off computer freeze. I've to make a hard reboot by using the reset button. Thats it.
I repeat, this happens only when Direct3D modes are activated. With DirectDraw it doesnt happens but my gameplay is better with Direct3D, thats why I'm asking for a solution :)

Obn3g0n
19 Jan 2013, 00:40
I have no idea... could your computer be overheating?
You can get better performance with DirectDraw by lowering the resolution to 640x480 and turning off the background in-game with the Insert key.

franpa
19 Jan 2013, 10:25
You can also try enabling Vsync to minimize the work your video card has to do. (Rendering 60 frames instead of several hundred/thousand per second)

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