Shopper/WXW Tactics [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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PsychoFrea
19 Aug 2007, 18:57
Share ye tactics here.
I always go for the weakest worm. By slowly picking off the enemies worms, you could end up having an advantage over the other team. This seems to most of the time and I tend to end up with 3 v 1 or 2 v 1.

M3ntal
21 Aug 2007, 17:18
If it's a 2 player game, i find it better to attack their strongest worm as it is advantageous to have less worms than them so you can pile every turn.

walrus
22 Aug 2007, 08:48
since when do you play shoppers mental?

KRD
22 Aug 2007, 15:05
He doesn't! We wouldn't allow that in SFX. :o
He's right, though, of course. That's what people do in serious Shopper games; pile each turn. And it's a lot easier to pull off if you have less worms than your opponent.
The best tactic of WxW is not to play WxW.
Hai there, Wally. :eek:

yakuza
22 Aug 2007, 18:40
The best tactic of WxW is not to play WxW.

Gnork
23 Aug 2007, 12:32
my tactics are top secret :D

Run
23 Aug 2007, 15:49
i find a good tactic is to distract players by asking what music they like and then saying it sucks
they'll become so consumed by typing huge walls of text in defense that any and all concentration on the game will go out of the window
The best tactic of WxW is not to play WxW.
also this

Alien King
23 Aug 2007, 17:28
Don't play WxW is the ultimate advice.
However, I find it best to get yourself into a situation where you cannot be attacked (The ABL rule is very useful), especially at the end of the game when there are more than three players.
This basically means self harming is a virtue. Whenever you attack someone but worry about losing your position in last place, drop yourself from high up to keep your position.
I try to force my opponants to attack each other instead of me.
With this strategy, try to make it so your enemies only have only one worm left and you're in last place. Then wait for one to kill the other and you kill the last.
Obviously this doesn't work in 1v1. For that you just need to be better than your opponant in terms of weapon usage, worm positioning and pile creation.
I always go for the weakest worm.
This has some reasoning behind it. However, it is difficult to create general rules for strategy in any game. I generally shoot whoever I can or whoever is a logical (in my sense of logic) target at the time.
Try to shoot piles of worms as much as possible. Create them if necessary

yakuza
24 Aug 2007, 15:44
Shooting the weakest worm is the most retarded tactic you can ever adopt, basically because you should be doing the exact opposite until you have all enemy worms at one shot from death, then, you finish them off one by one.

Melon
24 Aug 2007, 17:38
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks WxW is a great steaming pile of donkey manure.

Gnork
24 Aug 2007, 19:38
yakuza - ur statement is not true. shooting weakest worms can be very usefull if ur in 2nd position and want to keep it that way. psycho warfare is the best -.-

DerTo
24 Aug 2007, 19:59
I don't play with any tactic :p
I get the crate and attack the leader's worm who is the nearest to my worm, that i don't have to rope so far :)

yakuza
24 Aug 2007, 20:28
yakuza - ur statement is not true. shooting weakest worms can be very usefull if ur in 2nd position and want to keep it that way. psycho warfare is the best -.-
I'm talking about one against one, there is no such a thing as tactic in a multiple person game, unless of course, it's a 2vs2. Even then, an opponent with less worms will always be at an advantage over having more worms.

[UFP]Ghost
24 Aug 2007, 20:46
I've been playing shopper because AF1 has a tournament within the clan and I want some practice. Long story short I play a game with some Brazilians. Anyway they saw fit to talk amongst themselves in another language and together trap both my worms by knocking them in an enclosed area and each arrowing either side. Is that a legal move?

Alien King
24 Aug 2007, 22:00
I'm talking about one against one, there is no such a thing as tactic in a multiple person game, unless of course, it's a 2vs2. Even then, an opponent with less worms will always be at an advantage over having more worms.
Not quite true, but almost.

KRD
24 Aug 2007, 23:54
Ghost;600609']I've been playing shopper because AF1 has a tournament within the clan and I want some practice. Long story short I play a game with some Brazilians. Anyway they saw fit to talk amongst themselves in another language and together trap both my worms by knocking them in an enclosed area and each arrowing either side. Is that a legal move?
It's against Shopper rules, yes, but post the replay anyway so we can have a laugh at your expense. :p

[UFP]Ghost
25 Aug 2007, 00:36
KRD your evil :( but nonetheless get out your popcorn.
http://www.box.net/shared/6t2zyse9gi
Enjoy.

yakuza
25 Aug 2007, 11:49
Not quite true, but almost.
How about, instead of telling me I'm wrong, you actually tell me why I'm wrong, that way, I can then, afterwards, correct you and explain you how I was right all along.

Alien King
25 Aug 2007, 12:58
How about, instead of telling me I'm wrong, you actually tell me why I'm wrong, that way, I can then, afterwards, correct you and explain you how I was right all along.
I like to avoid those steps :p.
Anyway, let's see how deep a pit I can dig.
In shopper games I find it best to keep yourself in last place but have several worms. I do sometimes harm my own worms deliberatly just to keep myself in last place right up until the end.
Of course, you could just place your worms in really impractical places for your enemy to shoot you at and try to keep the most worms and health for the entire map. It never works for me.

yakuza
25 Aug 2007, 13:11
I like to avoid those steps :p.
Anyway, let's see how deep a pit I can dig.
In shopper games I find it best to keep yourself in last place but have several worms. I do sometimes harm my own worms deliberatly just to keep myself in last place right up until the end.
Of course, you could just place your worms in really impractical places for your enemy to shoot you at and try to keep the most worms and health for the entire map. It never works for me.
This is the second time you said this in this thread, one previous to my post, so I assume you're understimating my ability to read, I took into account what you said when making my claims of there being no tactics in all vs all games, mainly because everyone could adopt this tactic and it would end in nothing. It's not a tactic in my book, it's just a kind of lame way of abusing the ABL rule, a rule that is only there to allow people to play through the whole game and not to enforce the use of strategy. It's not a tactic the way I see things.
Of course, I'm not critizising the use of this abuse, each to their own.

franpa
25 Aug 2007, 14:09
This is the second time you said this in this thread, one previous to my post, so I assume you're understimating my ability to read, I took into account what you said when making my claims of there being no tactics in all vs all games, mainly because everyone could adopt this tactic and it would end in nothing. It's not a tactic in my book, it's just a kind of lame way of abusing the ABL rule, a rule that is only there to allow people to play through the whole game and not to enforce the use of strategy. It's not a tactic because, the way I see things.
Of course, I'm not critizising the use of this abuse, each to their own.
so the world revolves around you?

shadowman
25 Aug 2007, 15:04
I usually stick to shoppa and normal games.
I just go for whoever's near other worms.
Cept lately, there's been this guy, named Matias or something like that, who keeps breaking rules and annoying the crud out of me. He won twice because he cheats.

yakuza
25 Aug 2007, 15:17
so the world revolves around you?
That because shouldn't have been there, either way, yes, it does.
Run: why bother pointing out a grammar mistake? Edited nontheless.

Run
25 Aug 2007, 15:45
shouldn't of
oh no you jus dint

KRD
25 Aug 2007, 16:46
I would just like to stress here how right Yakuza is in saying strategy doesn't matter at all in games with more than two players. You can easily go /away for the entire game, come back to take your last turn and win the game.
Ghost;600657']KRD your evil :( but nonetheless get out your popcorn.
http://www.box.net/shared/6t2zyse9gi
Enjoy.
I did enjoy, hah. Nice work not actually breaking any rules yourself. :p

Alien King
25 Aug 2007, 17:51
This is the second time you said this in this thread, one previous to my post, so I assume you're understimating my ability to read
Without any confirmation, how was I to know you took it into account?
No, I do not doubt your ability to read. It's probably better than mine (I have a tendancy to miss things).

[UFP]Ghost
25 Aug 2007, 19:55
I did enjoy, hah. Nice work not actually breaking any rules yourself. :p
Thats something most people should do...Worms games are business not personal. Two bad things people do. One: They break rules once a rule was broken and damage was done to them. Two: I find when someone makes a mistake, some idiot says KTC and breaks the rules killing this person.

franpa
26 Aug 2007, 06:57
I would just like to stress here how right Yakuza is in saying strategy doesn't matter at all in games with more than two players. You can easily go /away for the entire game, come back to take your last turn and win the game.
I did enjoy, hah. Nice work not actually breaking any rules yourself. :p
thats a strategy albeit a really boring one.

DarkOne
27 Aug 2007, 13:12
KRD, what you said is not correct. FFie and I used to play shoppers a lot, but with the ktl rule. With this rule, it is most certainly possible to play tactical! Simply pile your strong worms with teams that are leading.
This way you'll end up with several very weak worms, which means it'll take at least 3 turns or so to kill all your worms off, while your opponents are not allowed to attack you due to ktl.
In 1v1 games, it's best to keep your enemy worms alive as mentioned before cause of piling. But essential in 1v1 is to use the weapons you have the best way you can. A flame thrower can do over 200 damage if you use it well (I think my best is around 170, but I'm not as good with it as FFie)
btw: this of course only applies to shopper. wxw has no form of tactics whatsoever, other than avoid playing it.
And KRD, your tip may serve well in abl games, although I thought of a different tactic there too. Just play really REALLY poorly the whole game. Lose your turns, make it look like you're awful at roping. Collect a few weapons and then lose your turn afterwards, so you'll have a nice arsenal at your disposal. Then at the right time, you strike.
Came to me in a game where people were picking on me, cause I was the only one that was decent at roping. They went for me as soon as I stopped being last.
Also, KTC is the dumbest thing that ever came to worms (even if I count wxw). Since you're playing with ktl (or at least abl, but ktl is much better imo) a cow early on in the game should have no effect whatsoever on the outcome of the game. If it happens in a game where I have anything to say in the rules, the players that cowed don't even have to skip their turn. (except if it's 1v1, of course)

Emanuel556
28 Aug 2007, 02:51
Why do you hate wxw? I think it is fun.

franpa
28 Aug 2007, 05:25
KRD, what you said is not correct. FFie and I used to play shoppers a lot, but with the ktl rule. With this rule, it is most certainly possible to play tactical! Simply pile your strong worms with teams that are leading.
This way you'll end up with several very weak worms, which means it'll take at least 3 turns or so to kill all your worms off, while your opponents are not allowed to attack you due to ktl.
KTL is played where you can attack anyone you want so long as the leader gets hurt by a weapon in your inventory... so piling yourself near the leader is NOT a good strategy at all oO
KTLO (Kill The Leader Only) is what your thinking DarkOne.

Gnork
28 Aug 2007, 09:48
KTL sux and is boring. In the ending situation where 2nd player has 2 worms and 1st payer has 1 worm but is a bit stronger, it's not possible for the 3rd player to attack the 2nd unless he's piled with 1st player. Its just 'eena, meena, mina, mo'. Man... where are the good old classic ABL shoppers with strategic players who knew how to play those properly.....

franpa
28 Aug 2007, 10:37
in ABL you just kill the weakest while keeping yourself last.

PsychoFrea
28 Aug 2007, 13:38
I'll admit that w2w's a bit boring. It's more a case of reaching each wall as quickly as possible and attacking anybody near by with whatever weapon you've got before you run out of time. You don't really get a chance to use your weapons maximum potential.

yakuza
28 Aug 2007, 13:46
KTL is played where you can attack anyone you want so long as the leader gets hurt by a weapon in your inventory... so piling near the leader is NOT a good strategy at all oO
KTLO (Kill The Leader Only) is what your thinking DarkOne.
Wrong.
KTLO is wrong and only exists in your mind.
KTL: Hit the leading team all the time.
ABL: Hit any team except for the last.

DarkOne
28 Aug 2007, 14:11
KTL is played where you can attack anyone you want so long as the leader gets hurt by a weapon in your inventory... so piling near the leader is NOT a good strategy at all oO
KTLO (Kill The Leader Only) is what your thinking DarkOne.
What I'm thinking is that you didn't read the second part of the quote you provided ;) The piling stops when a worm is very low in HP. Try it! I've won quite a lot of shoppers because of what I told you, sir. And people that were playing in the game that didn't use these tactics had a frighteningly low winning percentage (and in fact only won if the people with better tactics had a major screw up at the end)
@ Gnork: if you hate those situations, then you should, you know, <b>prevent</b> it from happening and/or try to be the person with the upper hand there ;)
@ PsychoFrea: that is exactly why I avoid wxw at all cost.

Gnork
28 Aug 2007, 14:16
Wrong.
KTLO is wrong and only exists in your mind.
KTL: Hit the leading team all the time.
ABL: Hit any team except for the last.
no0bs usually do the KTLO stuff, cz they dont know the rules.
KTL: pile leader with the rest, then attack the pile
ABL: pile anybody, then attack the pile
Last player is usually unlucky in my games, he will die anyway in a pile, except when the leader has way more health than the rest of the players and needs sum tickling.
ABL offers room for revenge without having to go for the leader, one of the reasons I never play KTL. Some people deserve to be punished, and with KTL that's only possible if that annoying son of a * is near a leader.
In beginning of game, go for high damage and damage yerself also a lot if yer sewersider. In middle, be sure to take out the weakest worms of leader (just to be sure a no0b won't kill his strong worms, making him tactically advance), so he will still be leader for next turn. Many times, this will do more damage to the leader (since he is attacked twice, first shot kills a worm, next player will do damage to fat healthy worm). Better to leave the leader with 1 bleeding worm as with 2 and putting him into ABL position with those. The game is not about killing a leader, it's about 'managing' the health scores for other worms in a way that will give yerself an advantage. Strategy may vary upon actual gameplay.
Then this other annoying fact of KTL. The whining. Let's say we have 4 players, and 2nd one gets hit by accident fairly in the beginning of a game, while it won't mean any important difference to the health bars. Immediately all no0bs begin to cry about this, while in fact the attack made no real difference. Bah. Play instead of whine. You're supposed to d!E anyway, so stfu ;)
Then KTC. It's a nice rule, but should be used with care. Everybody makes mistakes once in a while, its human. So don't bother. Unless... the cow doesn't obey the rules and cows again without skipping a turn... and again, etc. Then the KTC rule wil end this nonsense. No0bs should be expained the rules tho, before deciding to go nuts on his worms. If the player knows he was wrong and follows rules normally next turns, its ok. But some ppl... well... hehehe. ;)

PsychoFrea
28 Aug 2007, 14:56
I forgive people who abuse the KTL rule by accident especially if I only lose a small amount of damage.
I don't see why other people get so ****ed off about it to be honest.

franpa
29 Aug 2007, 03:20
yea, why did you guys repeat what i said KTL was?

Emanuel556
29 Aug 2007, 05:11
nobody answered my question :'(
why do you people generally speaking don't like wxw?

yakuza
29 Aug 2007, 09:40
nobody answered my question :'(
why do you people generally speaking don't like wxw?
Because it adds nothing to the game. It's highly dependant on the map, 99% of the WxW maps suck because authors are WxWers, and WxWers aren't very intelligent people. It's a bad excuse of a scheme, imagine I came up with a map that was half a RR and half a BR, and made a scheme for it and called something stupid like HomerSimpson,

Gnork
29 Aug 2007, 09:48
question answered :) it's just rope show off, nothing more. no tactics whatsoever. I get bored from only looking at a wxw game already.

DarkOne
29 Aug 2007, 11:06
I'd like to point out that PsychoFrea already mentioned his reason for disliking it while I completely agreed with him, so at least 2 people answered your question;) And then these last 2 excellent answers make at least 4!

PsychoFrea
29 Aug 2007, 13:27
This thread is now about general tactics. Discuss.

Gnork
29 Aug 2007, 16:22
This thread is now about general tactics. Discuss.
I've said my words already about it and am not gonna reply to this anymore without adding more discussion points. Oh, wait, I just did :)

[UFP]Ghost
29 Aug 2007, 19:06
in ABL you just kill the weakest while keeping yourself last.
I disagree...there is no set person to hit. It all depends on who's playing and their health.
Edit: Also as much as I hate KTC, when you guys do it do you follow the rules? When I play in games and it happens they attack the cow for cheating but are cheating as they do it. Hypocrites.

yakuza
29 Aug 2007, 20:49
Ghost;602013']I disagree...there is no set person to hit. It all depends on who's playing and their health.
Edit: Also as much as I hate KTC, when you guys do it do you follow the rules? When I play in games and it happens they attack the cow for cheating but are cheating as they do it. Hypocrites.
Hm, so, if you take the freedom of someone by killing him, is the law hypocrital for taking out the freedom from you and putting you in jail?

Gnork
29 Aug 2007, 21:42
execution of KTC depends on desire for punishment per case. There are times when I pile the cow every single turn with others and follow all rules but still KTC. That's when it's more like bugging the person a bit and making sure he dies sooner than the rest anyway. Then there are times where an arrogant ******* needs to be killed - no other possible options. Then it's about sparing others, killing the cow only, and continuing the game after he died. Maybe there are also combinations of both *evil grinn*

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