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Nukemdukem
14 Sep 2007, 17:14
Being a member of a QA department myself I just have to ask, how did the ENTIRE QA team miss the crosshair bug? Projects can go on for months which eventually culminate in seemingly endless overtime hours, surely someone must have noticed it?? Did the devs waive it atleast? Did somebody atleast bug it???
I'll be picking up my DS version. Thanks. I was looking forward to the PSP version, it seemed like a sure winner, but much to my shock, the DS version has prevailed over my beloved PSP. I would in part like to thank the entire QA team for screwing up the PSP game for me, sure the game has it's perks, but a misaligned crosshair is something that I find to be completely inexcusable. Hire some better testers IMO.

Darkspark
14 Sep 2007, 17:26
Does anyone have any pictures of this bug? I can't imagine how it's that bad if it was totally missed by all the bug testers. I just want to see what all the fuss it about really.

Afrohorse
14 Sep 2007, 17:41
The game was bug tested for serveral months and the issue wasn't brought up.
The reason for this is due to the fact that the cursor on the PSP version isn't misaligned by angle, but by a fractional offset position applied to the rope and blow torch. The only way you really tell is if you fired the rope while the cursor was still on screen (which someone has posted up to the forums).
If you look at the screen shot, you'll see that the rope comes from the center of the worm. But the cursor is extended from the worms hand, which isn't always at the center of the worm.
The angle of trajectory is always correct and feels right, but at extreme angles where the worm hand moves the fired weapon would fire from the center of the worm for blow torch and rope, not from the hand position therefore applying a slight offset.
The testers on the project would fire weapons and they would fire at the correct angle given the cursor. The rope is the only case where you can see the positional offset applied and obviously, it wasn't spotted.
It's a shame that this has put you off the PSP version and I wish that you had at least try it out to see that it the positional offset applied really isn't that noticable. You are basing your decision on these forum posts, I suggest you try it out...
If it was a major fault in the game, we would have spotted it and fixed it immediately.

Nukemdukem
14 Sep 2007, 17:42
Does anyone have any pictures of this bug? I can't imagine how it's that bad if it was totally missed by all the bug testers. I just want to see what all the fuss it about really.
This picture made me wanna barf over how a group of people missed an issue like this.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2577/aimofflc4.jpg
To the above poster, I have tried the PSP version and the DS version and did a couple of comparisons of my own, in the end I decided that the DS version was better suited to my likings.

Luther
14 Sep 2007, 17:51
I guess that as a professional QA you must be very sensitive. This issue in no way "screws up" the PSP version. Thats just silly. Its an excellent version and plays really nicely. I'm glad you're enjoying the DS version though.

Nukemdukem
14 Sep 2007, 18:02
I guess that as a professional QA you must be very sensitive. This issue in no way "screws up" the PSP version. Thats just silly. Its an excellent version and plays really nicely. I'm glad you're enjoying the DS version though.
I'm sure some people love their PSP version to death. I'm just saying it screws it up for someone like me. It's as if I picked up a working version of say...Team Fortress 2 and for whatever reason, the crosshairs were off. It's odd.
Oh, and QA is rarely a professional environment, in most cases the QA department for a major publisher is the black sheep of the company. But without QA, they're screwed.

Squirminator2k
14 Sep 2007, 18:33
I've had no problems with the crosshair for anything other than the rope and the Blowtorch, and even then it's hardly been a major inconvenience.

Teuvo
15 Sep 2007, 01:19
Hello I've been playing for 3 days in Infrastructure mode but it still says "You're not on the leaderboard yet". What is the problem? :confused:
PS. My profile nick is TeuvoK

fariswheel
15 Sep 2007, 02:48
Hello I've been playing for 3 days in Infrastructure mode but it still says "You're not on the leaderboard yet". What is the problem? :confused:
PS. My profile nick is TeuvoK
There is a fatal bug in the signing up process that does one of two things to your account:
1) Allows your scores to be updated immediately after finishing a game. Also, the percentage system works and your percentage is saved.
2) Scores are never updated to the server and your percentage always resets to 100 when you log back on.
It's a really big shame, my entire first account was dead due to this.

parsley
15 Sep 2007, 08:51
Fatal? Who died?
I've responded to the other thread you opened about this.

Teuvo
15 Sep 2007, 09:50
Is there going to be patch for the game which fix this issue? I don't want to create new account. (I will lost all my buddies and badges)

Wormetti
15 Sep 2007, 10:19
They are looking into it.
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34167
It should be fixable server side but I don't know for sure.

Teuvo
15 Sep 2007, 10:24
They are looking into it.
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34167
It should be fixable server side but I don't know for sure.
Ok. Thanks.

Luther
15 Sep 2007, 10:29
It should be fixable server side but I don't know for sure.
and this information comes from?

Wormetti
15 Sep 2007, 10:36
and this information comes from?
It was an educated guess. I did say that I don't know for sure but perhaps I shouldn't have posted at all :)
I was referring to the account issue (online stats not saving for some). From experience, the likely culprit is a problem with the server/database but it's possible it could be the client or both.
Obviously the crosshair problem is not fixable server side but that problem is very minor and doesn't bother me.

Teuvo
15 Sep 2007, 12:28
Can't they just create patch? Killzone: liberation created patch which is installed and saved to memorystick. So it's possible to fix this crosshair problem,ranking problem and other problems.
BTW are the ranking infos saved in my memorycard too or only to wormnet? Cos I've played many good rounds and I want them to see in leaderboard after ranking problem is fixed. Or then they must remove all leaderboards after fixing the problem or it's unfair agaist other players who got this annoying bug.
PS. I bought this game for 50 € (69 $) so I want this to work. :-/

parsley
19 Sep 2007, 21:25
Can't they just create patch?
Not our decision: there are, at least, thee different companies invlolved.
BTW are the ranking infos saved in my memorycard too or only to wormnet? Cos I've played many good rounds and I want them to see in leaderboard after ranking problem is fixed. Or then they must remove all leaderboards after fixing the problem or it's unfair agaist other players who got this annoying bug.
You don't let slip which platform (DS/PSP) you're talking about but I guess from "WormNet" you have the PSP version?
If so:
All rankings are network only - there's nothing local to your PSP.
There is a known issue with certain accounts where the scoreboards don't appear to update. We are looking into this issue (with, by the way, great help from Wormetti).

wave
19 Sep 2007, 22:16
This picture made me wanna barf over how a group of people missed an issue like this.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2577/aimofflc4.jpg
To the above poster, I have tried the PSP version and the DS version and did a couple of comparisons of my own, in the end I decided that the DS version was better suited to my likings.
meh, you get over it eventually, not exactly fatal or damage inflicting upon your own worms, i've never had a problem where my progress was hampered by this quirk in the game design.

punkonjunk
20 Sep 2007, 18:44
Hey, don't you guys feel that the whole quitting in the middle of the game is kind of a big gigantic hole in the game that QA shouldn't have missed? I'd love some devs to adress it here or in my thread -
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?p=609701#post609701
I mean, just simply removing that quit button would make it so hard to actually quit. More people would just take the hit, instead of powering down the PSP, booting it again, starting Worms2, and re-logging in. Thats all you need to do, is just lock that quit button.
Please do it, for the love of god. I haven't finished a game yet.

Daz555
20 Sep 2007, 20:32
People could just hit the wireless switch.

wave
22 Sep 2007, 14:28
People could just hit the wireless switch.
still a less attractive chore than going for the quit option provided. You would have to re-connect online etc.

Squirminator2k
22 Sep 2007, 20:18
But people would still do it.

Vader
22 Sep 2007, 21:53
[hit nerve]
Oh, and QA is rarely a professional environment, in most cases the QA department for a major publisher is the black sheep of the company. But without QA, they're screwed.
[/hit nerve]
Have you worked with many companies?
Proper QA done properly is most definitely professional. I take my job very seriously and ensure the utmost quality through professionalism. It's those who are less than professional whom I find cause many of the problems you're insinuating.
Without QA they are indeed screwed, which is exactly why QA absolutely must be professional. They must make judgment calls on whether an issue is worth the developers' time given the severity of other issues, reporting only what is necessary to be fixed within the schedule. That could explain why the issue, as minor as it sounds, was not reported.
You say it screws it up for you but perhaps it didn't screw it up for any of the testers on the project. Perhaps it was and got spotted but went unreported as a result of being instructed to only report B-class or higher.
Who knows? All I know is that QA demands professionalism.

wave
23 Sep 2007, 17:15
But people would still do it.
less people (thats the point, shame you can't grasp it)

Squirminator2k
23 Sep 2007, 18:45
less people (thats the point, shame you can't grasp it)
Don't assume that just because you take away an option to quit that people who want to quit won't use the other methods. That's the point. Change the track, already.
Wave: "Quit option is the cause of all of humanity's woes! Remove it!"
Everyone else: "Ah yes, but you can just as easily switch off the WLAN switch."
Wave: "But people won't use it!"
Everyone else: "Yes they will."
Wave: "Yes, but... not as many people!"
Everyone else: "It's nice that you believe that."
Wave: "QUIT OPTION BAD ABLOO BLOO BLOO"
Everyone else: "Right. Okay. Listen, this has been fun, but visiting hours are over and you have electro-shock treatment scheduled for later today. We don't want to keep you."

wave
23 Sep 2007, 19:36
Don't assume that just because you take away an option to quit that people who want to quit won't use the other methods. That's the point. Change the track, already.
Wave: "Quit option is the cause of all of humanity's woes! Remove it!"
Everyone else: "Ah yes, but you can just as easily switch off the WLAN switch."
Wave: "But people won't use it!"
Everyone else: "Yes they will."
Wave: "Yes, but... not as many people!"
Everyone else: "It's nice that you believe that."
Wave: "QUIT OPTION BAD ABLOO BLOO BLOO"
Everyone else: "Right. Okay. Listen, this has been fun, but visiting hours are over and you have electro-shock treatment scheduled for later today. We don't want to keep you."
my god you really are unbelievable, your the one who keeps bringing this back up! Its not my fault you can't grasp simple human behavioural traits, for example how many people do you think use that quit option provided because they think that it just quits them out and not all the other people playing, ie they think its acceptable to quit that way, presumably primarily because that option is for some reason provided by the games makers.
your the broken record 'but they could just use the wlan switch!' balh-de-blah

Squirminator2k
23 Sep 2007, 20:00
As a matter of fact I do know a little something about human behaviour. Lock the doors and people will try to climb out through the windows. It's perhaps a bit laborious, but the end result is the same. People can still leave the room. If someone really wants out, they'll get out.
I'm not just saying "WLAN switch!" I am pointing out that those who want to quit for whatever reason - if they're sore losers, for example - will quit using whatever method is most readily available to them. The Quit feature makes it easier but removing it just means they'll head for the window instead. I really can't understand how you fail utterly to comprehend this most simple of concepts.
Quite frankly though, I'm done with this conversation. If your behavioural traits have shown me anything it's that... well, you apparently have time to moan about a small, ultimately insignificant option in a game. I have other things to do. I have other sundry items to be be getting on with during my day. If you want to continue locking horns about the "Quit" option with me, by all means drop me a PM. For now though, I consider your stance on the subject markedly ill-informed, based on the precept that simply removing the Quit feature will somehow make sore losers a little more accepting of their fate.

Joel_the_J
23 Sep 2007, 21:00
100% agree that less people would quit without a quit option. Yes people would still quit but less people would. Fine, a room with windows would allow people to quit, but not everyone would. You add a door and everyone does. You like the quit option being there cuz you use it squrim. People that never quit and want an honest game hate it.

wave
23 Sep 2007, 21:12
100% agree that less people would quit without a quit option. Yes people would still quit but less people would. Fine, a room with windows would allow people to quit, but not everyone would. You add a door and everyone does. You like the quit option being there cuz you use it squrim. People that never quit and want an honest game hate it.
see squirm there are people that think the same and if you bothered to properly read my last post you'd see that i WASN'T refering to 'sore losers' ! but rather as one example innocent decent people whom think that using the quit option just quits them out and not everyone involved in the session. Perhaps if they knew otherwise they'd do the decent thing and surrender or stick it out after all there are SOME decent people in the world.
But yes i think it could be argued that so called sore losers on a psychological level may think that its more acceptable to quit as that option is provided in the games make up.

MtlAngelus
24 Sep 2007, 07:43
But what of the people who might have a valid reason to use the quit option?

wave
24 Sep 2007, 09:08
But what of the people who might have a valid reason to use the quit option?
well i don't think there is a one, i think me and you have talked about this before. Earthquakes and houses on fire are valid but then i think people would just turn off their console.
I don't understand why using the quit option doesn't trigger a surrender that is a possibility surely? to code for i mean.

MtlAngelus
24 Sep 2007, 09:46
What about if you get in a game with a hacker/cheater, wouldn't you like to be able to just quit and not earn him a victory?
Or what about when you're in a game with someone who is being incredibly obnoxious, perhaps by taking way too long in his turns witouth any reason, just to try to annoy you, that I think qualifies for a valid reason for quiting too. That way you just get out and just join another game.

parsley
24 Sep 2007, 10:26
They'll still be annoying the others.

Joel_the_J
25 Sep 2007, 02:13
But what of the people who might have a valid reason to use the quit option?
If you're gonna play online and join a game then you should stay to the end. If you know you are going to have to leave or stop, do us all a favor and just play a single player game. When you quit it effects everyones %.

Joel_the_J
25 Sep 2007, 02:17
Or what about when you're in a game with someone who is being incredibly obnoxious, perhaps by taking way too long in his turns witouth any reason, just to try to annoy you, that I think qualifies for a valid reason for quiting too. .
Nope it doesn't. Games are not that long, especially if you got some skill. If he's being annoying, beat him. Won't that make you feel better? Not like his taking forever really effects any of your worms. And really, you very seldom run into this kind of player.

Squirminator2k
25 Sep 2007, 02:23
I love this "There's no excuse!" mentality. It basically means that when I'm back in England in November for a week visiting my Mum, I'm not allowed to play the game because my Mum is not the healthiest of people and if something were to happen to her mid-game I would have to tell her, "Er, sorry Mum, I'm in the middle of a wave of Worms Open Warfare 2. Would you mind having your diabetic seizure after I've finished?"

MtlAngelus
25 Sep 2007, 02:28
Nope it doesn't. Games are not that long, especially if you got some skill. If he's being annoying, beat him. Won't that make you feel better? Not like his taking forever really effects any of your worms. And really, you very seldom run into this kind of player.
Depending on the scheme you're playing, there will be some instances in which beating him will indeed take ages. And the thing is that it *does* happen, and some people might want to leave to the lobby and join another game when this happens to them.
The thing is, the quit option is NOT a bad thing, and removing it will also NOT solve the quitters problem, and is extremely unlikely to diminish it. So I don't know why you are still complaining.

Joel_the_J
25 Sep 2007, 04:51
\
The thing is, the quit option is NOT a bad thing, and removing it will also NOT solve the quitters problem, and is extremely unlikely to diminish it. So I don't know why you are still complaining.
Oh not only is it a bad thing, it is THE worst thing. I play worms because I like to play others. I also like playing to win. I once was ranked 9th, now I am 22. Did I lose any games? No.
Why then did I lose so much ranking? Quitters.
Quitters using the quit option because they think that since it is there, it is acceptable to quit.
Remove the quit options and people will still quit, yes, but less people will quit. "People will just hit the wi-fi switch" yes they will, but less people will quit.
"People will just turn off the system" Yes they will, but less people will quit.
You obviously do not play worms alot or very seriously (which is absolutely fine) but for people like me that want to play competively it is unbelievably frustrating when you are about to win and then they quit. Then your ranking goes down.
And yes I know, I know "Then get some players you trust" Riggght because the community is bursting with players right now. Especially non-quiter players. *rolls eyes* As I type this I have a room open and has been open for 20 minutes and the only people that come in are newbs or players with 70% and lower that are ranked 1000 or above.

Joel_the_J
25 Sep 2007, 04:58
I love this "There's no excuse!" mentality. It basically means that when I'm back in England in November for a week visiting my Mum, I'm not allowed to play the game because my Mum is not the healthiest of people and if something were to happen to her mid-game I would have to tell her, "Er, sorry Mum, I'm in the middle of a wave of Worms Open Warfare 2. Would you mind having your diabetic seizure after I've finished?"
Yes because this happens so often! More like "Oh I forgot to change my team and all the players look like pirates and I accidently drop a dynamite next to my own player. I'm gonna quit, but it's ok because I send a message that says "sorry, gotta go." and since I send that message it is ok for me to quit. Because I have a life, and that's why I'm quitting not because I'm about to lose."
Riiiggghtt. No doubt things come up, but com'on a game of worms takes about 10 to 15 minutes. If you are gonna play online, you gotta know that's about how long it will take.
You got bad starting postions, sucks, don't quit. You forgot to set your team, sucks, don't quit. You killed your own worm, sucks, don't quit. Your mom is having a diabetic seizure, sucks, quit.

wave
25 Sep 2007, 10:11
I say get rid of the quit option, really it serves no purpose except for sore losers and people who dislike challenges to have any easy way out. Tell me are your worms as yellow as you?

Squirminator2k
25 Sep 2007, 15:35
Yes because this happens so often! More like "Oh I forgot to change my team and all the players look like pirates and I accidently drop a dynamite next to my own player. I'm gonna quit, but it's ok because I send a message that says "sorry, gotta go." and since I send that message it is ok for me to quit. Because I have a life, and that's why I'm quitting not because I'm about to lose."
Riiiggghtt. No doubt things come up, but com'on a game of worms takes about 10 to 15 minutes. If you are gonna play online, you gotta know that's about how long it will take.
You got bad starting postions, sucks, don't quit. You forgot to set your team, sucks, don't quit. You killed your own worm, sucks, don't quit. Your mom is having a diabetic seizure, sucks, quit.
A round of Worms takes 10-15 minutes. A full game can take up to and over an hour. And I wouldn't quit because of bad positioning (ISWYDT, incidentally). If the person I'm playing with is being a complete and utter knobbler, sending abusive messages and whatknot, then I'm not going to give him the satisfaction of a Victory by surrendering. Similarly, I'm not going to continue playing him while he's sending abusive messages. If any wants any further reason as to why I quit that one game, you are invited to PM me. I am not going to plaster my family's personal business on the internet.
People are saying that there's no valid reason to quit, which is utter shash. The example with my Mum may not be a common example, but people are saying "Don't start a game if you think you won't be able to finish it" which, with my situation, means I wouldn't be able to play Worms at all when I'm at hers. Again, I won't go into further details about my family's personal business, but suffice to say the nature of the argument against the Quit option here is exceptionally narrow-minded and, being honest, it's a crock of ****.
Simply saying "There's no valid reason to quit EVAR!!11!1" is a flat-out rubbish statement, as is saying "Remove teh quit options lololol" because, as we've already established, there are not one but two further methods of quitting the game that people would use were the built-in option in the pause menu taken away. And don't say "People wouldn't use them!" because despite the fact that your average online gamer has more teeth than braincells, if they really want to quit because their house of on fire, or their worms are in a bad position, or they realised that they don't like the PSP or whatever, they're going to quit. They're going to flick the WLAN switch or turn the console off, because the bloody developer didn't put a quit option in why is there no quit option i want 2 b able 2 quit but dey didn at teh opton wtf taem17.
Really. This entire discussion is not only redundant, but it's becoming exceptionally comical.

wave
25 Sep 2007, 17:31
:D:Dcomical and yet not:confused:, you say there is a valid reason to quit, and which in your example is the abusive chat. I have a solution; don't go into the chat option and read the chat, i rarely do. The other example you gave for valid quitting, mother ill or some family member or house on fire if you like, hell it could be the end of the world; the solution power button switched to off. Not hard is it, or you could do your favourite just flick that wlan switch.
but in most other cases i beleive the surrender method should be used eg if you are a sore loser or moreover if you have some other more important business to attend to, indeed i wish the quit option triggered a surrender, that would make everyone happy i think.
Ok i think i've said everything i need on the quit option motion, i just like to say thanks to everyone whose supported me over these last days but its time to move on, its been fun but alas its becoming boring. Remember don't quit!

Squirminator2k
25 Sep 2007, 17:42
:D:Dcomical and yet not:confused:, you say there is a valid reason to quit, and which in your example is the abusive chat. I have a solution; don't go into the chat option and read the chat, i rarely do. The other example you gave for valid quitting, mother ill or some family member or house on fire if you like, hell it could be the end of the world; the solution power button switched to off. Not hard is it, or you could do your favourite just flick that wlan switch.
I love how much you've been Not Reading my Posts Properly™. I said these are valid reasons ti quit a game, not reasons why the Quit option is necessary. I am saying that removing the Quit option is moot because people can still sue the WLAN or the Power switch to quit. I'm not saying "Oh no, my sister's head has exploded... right, Start, Quit, Yes. It's loading. Hurry up! Right, menu. Disconnect from Infrastructure... yes... right. Now turn it off."
I love how you referred to the WLAN switch as "my favourite", incidentally. Nicely done. If you want to make me look like a Serial Quitter after I quit one game because of a) a jerk, and b) a personal matter (again, do feel free to PM me if you want the specifics) then by all means do so. But I'm sure there are a fair few people on the DS version of the game who would disagree with you - I've never dropped out of a game once there, as oppsoed to my horrendous one dropped game on the PSP. Oh, the humanity!
but in most other cases i beleive the surrender method should be used eg if you are a sore loser or moreover if you have some other more important business to attend to, indeed i wish the quit option triggered a surrender, that would make everyone happy i think.
Sore losers should surrender, but I'm not going to surrender to someone being a f***wit sneding abusive or offensive messages. That's not condusive to a good online experience and, again, i'm not going to send the message to other players that being a jerk on WormNet will earn you a victory.
And more improtant business...? "Oh no, my sister's head has exploded... right, Start, Quit..."

wave
25 Sep 2007, 17:49
What? just re-read my post i'm not trying to bash you. I'm saying there very few VALID reasons to quit if any and therefore the quit option in the menu is redundant, any real reason to cease a game of online worms can be done by other methods which we have all established, power button.

Squirminator2k
25 Sep 2007, 17:57
And so for that reason, the Quit button should be removed...?

wave
25 Sep 2007, 18:54
And so for that reason, the Quit button should be removed...?
er yes, congratulations.

Squirminator2k
25 Sep 2007, 19:01
So... let me get this straight: You think the Quit button should be removed because removing the quit button will have little to no impact whatsoever? Isn't that then just... y'know... pointless?

wave
25 Sep 2007, 19:34
So... let me get this straight: You think the Quit button should be removed because removing the quit button will have little to no impact whatsoever? Isn't that then just... y'know... pointless?
er no thats not whats been said by anyone. But I do think the quit option in menu is pointless, just like this debate with you. Could a moderator lock this now perhaps?

Vader
25 Sep 2007, 19:35
So... let me get this straight: You think the Quit button should be removed because removing the quit button will have little to no impact whatsoever? Isn't that then just... y'know... pointless?
That's check and mate.
gg

Squirminator2k
25 Sep 2007, 20:09
er no thats not whats been said by anyone.
Oh.
But I do think the quit option in menu is pointless...
And you've also said that it should be removed. A = B, B = C, A = C.
just like this debate with you. Could a moderator lock this now perhaps?
Y'know what else is pointless? Backseat modding. D'oh!

wave
25 Sep 2007, 22:38
without a quit option there would be less quitters because the quit option provided promotes quitting. Because there is no valid reasons to quit there is no reason to include the quit option furthermore because there are other less obvious ways to duck out of an online game it makes the quit option in menu unesscessary. These are the things you need to know mr squirminator.
Of course these things should be scientifically tested to be ceratin that they are true, but i am fairly confident they are given the obviousness of the case. But as i understand it the DS version of the game has no quit option (i may be wrong haven't seen for myself) and with it reportedly less quitters if true this points to this theory being corect.

thomasp
25 Sep 2007, 22:52
If you want a thread locked, please use the "Post Report" facility - it is quite wonderful. Do not post in a thread "Could a mod lock this plz" as the mods are not psychic.
So:
*Thread locked*

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