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ruthless1
5 Aug 2008, 00:27
Hello, Im quite new to this community, but some of you might have met me in WormNet. I'd like to show the community what hosts of BungeeRace tourney (and also WO organisers) have done and what in my opinion shouldnt happen at all in a good tourney.
The moderator, Enty, said that the whole tourney will be 1v1v1v1, where 2 first to finish will advance. To prevent from long games he said to set SD timer to 30mins, so then 2 players who were most ahead would advance.
In 2nd round, one of my opponents - Chakkman - accidentally plopped his worm (really unlucky accident, it was hard to plop on this map, but he did it). We rehosted game, giving ourselves 3 worms and 2 worms to him. He advanced through, as I did.
When 8 players left, I was 2nd in my game, therefore advanced to the final. But then, moderator suddenly changed rules of the tourney, because in 2nd semifinal all players tied. He said that we will play 6way semifinal, from which 3 best will advance (3 first finishers or 3 first when SD comes).
As moderator picked unbelievably hard map, with which all of us had problems, it took a long time until we had first finisher - Chakkman (yes the one for who we rehosted earlier). Then it was 15 seconds until SD. It was my turn, and I was 2nd, and was almost sure to go to the final. But I wanted to make it nice, so I made my turn, but had same unfortunate event as Chakkman had - I plopped. Then Wyvern took his turn (still SD didnt come) and overtook me.
When SD came, moderator Enty wanted to resolve that awkward situation. So they said I can take my turn again to determine whether Ill be 3rd or Ill be 3rd with DarkOne (because I could fall down). So they rehosted.
Suddenly I got 3 messages from moderator:
-If I skip - I lose
-If I drown again - I lose
-Even it should be only my turn, I must skip turn so others will take their turns (and then DarkOne overtook me)
-Finally - he changed rules of tourney by saying that we dont play for 3 top players in SD time but 3 top finishers (he apparently said it would be faster. But how, since SD already determined finalists?)
Of course I fell down, so DarkOne was third, but I was now far away considering that map was really hard. Everyone said they made everything to make it "easier" for me to advance, but actually I think moderator obviously wanted DarkOne to advance (since they are good friends).
I quitted the game, as there was no point of playing - it would take me few turns to get back where I was and DarkOne was very close to the finish.
I am very disappointed with that moderators of tourneys are allowed to change rules of game whenever they want to. I am curious what the rest of community can say about that incident (apart from players who were in the game, because they might have opinion already).

KRD
5 Aug 2008, 00:37
Replay please.

ruthless1
5 Aug 2008, 00:42
I had to put them on sendspace, because they were too big.
Here's link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/54jgd1
I don't have a chatlog from between games copied though.

DarkOne
5 Aug 2008, 00:49
Take a look at the replays.
http://mihd.net/1glqu9h
39:24 of the first replay is the situation before his last turn.
Then check the second replay (my first turn is enough).
How can you claim that your position is better than mine if I can actually get further from my spot, while you failed from your position (first by overshooting, then by not having near enough momentum)?
Furthermore, the section was so open that was it was very easy to fall back or drown. if you screw up in such a section there's always a high chance that you have to do a turn over again. Drowning seems to be better than falling back here?
I initially suggested 2 options: 1) you're through, I'm out. Nobody felt like using that one. 2) you try that same jump once time and if you succeeded, you'd have gone through. If you had failed (time runs out, you drown, you fall down, whatever happened), then we both would go through as it's a draw. (basically, you were through to the finals regardless of the result!)
You flat out refused (if you secretly wanted this option, then why the hell didn't you light up? I was the only one that did!).

CyberShadow
5 Aug 2008, 00:50
I don't have a chatlog from between games copied though.
Did you check your User\Logs folder?

ruthless1
5 Aug 2008, 00:56
Take a look at the replays.
http://mihd.net/1glqu9h
39:24 of the first replay is the situation before his last turn.
Then check the second replay (my first turn is enough).
How can you claim that your position is better than mine if I can actually get further from my spot, while you failed from your position (first by overshooting, then by not having near enough momentum)?
Furthermore, the section was so open that was it was very easy to fall back or drown. if you screw up in such a section there's always a high chance that you have to do a turn over again. Drowning seems to be better than falling back here?
I initially suggested 2 options: 1) you're through, I'm out. Nobody felt like using that one. 2) you try that same jump once time and if you succeeded, you'd have gone through. If you had failed (time runs out, you drown, you fall down, whatever happened), then we both would go through as it's a draw. (basically, you were through to the finals regardless of the result!)
You flat out refused (if you secretly wanted this option, then why the hell didn't you light up? I was the only one that did!).
Understand me, please. I don't care if I had chance or not. I care about chaning major rules 3 times since tourney started:
1. After semifinals we went to play another semifinals
2. If I plop I lose
3. Game ends when 3 finish not when SD comes
What next? Let me give you an example: we play final of team17 tourney, where Enty is moderator. Things are pretty even, but you have slight HP advantage over me when SD comes. And then Enty says: "we dont play until end, but until SD, most HP wins". It would be same thing as changing rules in bungeerace from "who went further until SD" into "who finishes first after SD". Not to mention that Enty picked up a scheme which didn't auto-finish game when SD started (which makes it even more suspicious).

DarkOne
5 Aug 2008, 01:06
the small difference being that you actually died. You name examples where the games were replayed, but in my first round, GreeN died and there was no rehost (he didn't want one, granted).
I agree that drowning = loss was harsh.
Actually, the situation you're sketching ("we don't play until end, but until SD, most HP wins") was the way the original rules were.
log: http://privatepaste.com/d31dyMYKoi

ruthless1
5 Aug 2008, 01:08
Actually, the situation you're sketching ("we don't play until end, but until SD, most HP wins") was the way the original rules were.
That's only unfortunate example, it meant that this in t17 would mean same thing that completely reversed situation in bungeerace.

KRD
5 Aug 2008, 01:18
What next? Let me give you an example: we play final of team17 tourney, where Enty is moderator. Things are pretty even, but you have slight HP advantage over me when SD comes. And then Enty says: "we dont play until end, but until SD, most HP wins". It would be same thing as changing rules in bungeerace from "who went further until SD" into "who finishes first after SD". Not to mention that Enty picked up a scheme which didn't auto-finish game when SD started (which makes it even more suspicious).
Nowhere near to being the same thing. In Bungee Race, there's only one correct path; the farther down it you are, the better your position. You can't possibly claim your strategy was to fall behind at first and then make a comeback or that you intentionally played very well until the round time ran out, but are because of that unable to play well afterward. Whether the game ends as decided beforehand or not doesn't objectively alter anything, all it does is give the person who lost something to be upset about. I'm sorry that appears to be you this time around.
I'm not watching the replay right now as it's getting quite late, but I'd just like to point out that tournament hosts often do have to alter the system slightly depending on how long things are taking. So far it just looks to me like Enty did the best he could to keep the progress fluent. But then I'm not exactly an objective bystander either, since I've known DarkOne and Enty both to be prime examples of fair players as well as tournament hosts for many years now.

Mablak
5 Aug 2008, 05:02
I think you guys should've made it more clear as to what you were going by, farthest position or finishing, a rule change requires unanimous agreement. Even though ruthless is being a baby about this, the situation might have been avoided without that confusion, as he might've just skipped. Although if he was really unsure, he should've asked so that part is largely his fault.
Also I didn't understand what happened in the second game, there must have been some confusion there as I don't know why someone wouldn't choose darkone's 2nd proposal. Ruthless refused to accept anything other than a 3 way final or something?

ruthless1
5 Aug 2008, 12:33
In Bungee Race, there's only one correct path;
Not on this particular map as you can see on the replay. All players in game (except me, as I dont talk in game, I rather concentrate on playing) whined about the map, called it "luck-fest".
So far it just looks to me like Enty did the best he could to keep the progress fluent.
Fluent? You say that changing mind after game ended to continue it, makes it more fluent? I don't think so. Also Enty wanted game to last as short as possible, as he wanted to go sleep, so again why he enlarged game?
Actually, after I plopped and SD came, they all said to me that I am 100% in final, and next game will contain only my turn to determine whether I tie with DarkOne or overtake him. In case I skipped they said I would lose.
And then it all happened - I got message that if I plop I lose. Also they asked me to skip, although they kept playing for a while after I plopped (SD didnt end game, bad scheme I guess, another bad thing from moderator). And then DarkOne overtook me and they said we play until 3 finish and my turn won't determine anything and that Im not in final after all.
Now try to be in my situation: if you overshot - you're out, if you fall down you're out (as DarkOne was close to finish now), if you skip you're out (and they said I'll be "Shyguy" or something like that then, whatever that means) and try to play good knowing that moderator is against you. Uncool. Suddenly from being sure to be in final at the end of first game, I was out of the competition at the beginning of second game. No point in staying in game, I left.

GoDxWyvern
5 Aug 2008, 13:00
When 8 players left, I was 2nd in my game, therefore advanced to the final. But then, moderator suddenly changed rules of the tourney, because in 2nd semifinal all players tied. He said that we will play 6way semifinal, from which 3 best will advance (3 first finishers or 3 first when SD comes).
The rules were not changed, because exactly the same thing happened in round 1, and it was handled exactly the same way. That's why there were two 5-way games in round 2.
-Finally - he changed rules of tourney by saying that we dont play for 3 top players in SD time but 3 top finishers (he apparently said it would be faster. But how, since SD already determined finalists?)
No, he did not say that it would be faster. The purpose of this decision was to determine three contestants for the final match, decreasing the risk of a draw game. Apart from that, the decision was made much earlier in the game, when neither of us was past the center of the map yet. As KRD said - and I last night -, a measure like that doesn't have any influence on the gameplay, since either way you are supposed to reach the finish before the rest.
Above all, you should get your facts straight. Making false accusations and by doing so trying to bend things your way doesn't get you anywhere. Not a thing of what happened posed a disadvantage for you. All you can be rightfully upset about is that you failed when your advancing to the finals was on the line.

DarkOne
5 Aug 2008, 18:50
I would've been perfectly happy with the second solution I gave, but ruthless instantly showed he had intention of doing that ("if I skip, I win?"). Even when given the opportunity of 100% certainty, you just had to think of a way to make it better for you. That's what bothered me.
At any rate, the way this tourney was handled wasn't my call, I just gave a few suggestions. I'm just saying what happened. If you hadn't quit right after your first turn, you would've seen that I was having problems with the final jump. You chose not to see it through to the end, regrettably.

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