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Akuryou13
3 Oct 2007, 06:03
workin on my entry in giving Paul Power an action scene, and I just barely started the worm and ran into a problem. I don't know how to make the light react below the mouth where the tail and the head meet. right now the shadow ends by going directly towards teh rest of the shadow, but I don't really think that looks right. so what SHOULD the light be doing? I tried looking through some art from other people but most opt to have the light coming from the flat side instead of the side with the tail.

MtlAngelus
3 Oct 2007, 07:35
That looks wrong indeed. I would do something like this:

Akuryou13
3 Oct 2007, 07:54
better, but I still dunno. I'll wait for more suggestions to see if anyone can suggest something that looks more...I don't know, just more something :p

thomasp
3 Oct 2007, 08:26
If I could draw, I'd probably carry the shadow line down towards the ground, like MtlAngelus has done.
But I can't draw, so that's my opinion instantly made worthless :p

Luther
3 Oct 2007, 14:09
I think a small shadow helps, plus I'd go along with MtlAngelus. Then again I can't draw the worm very well either.

bonz
3 Oct 2007, 17:43
Ehrm, I shall point out that Paul.Power (http://forum.team17.co.uk/member.php?u=1204) is wearing laboratory safety goggles (depicted by the nuclear flash goggles from the WA sprite), not a bandana-like eye mask.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4648/pdotprs9.gif

Squirminator2k
3 Oct 2007, 17:45
The colour tone could use tweaking as well. Looks a bit bleek.

SupSuper
3 Oct 2007, 18:05
That's Aku's style.
I hope.

worMatty
3 Oct 2007, 19:38
I think it depends on where the light source is. It's acceptable to have the shadows similar to what you did in your original image if the light source is above and slightly to the right of the worm. But because the worm is looking to the right, that suggests the source of the light might be coming from there. The transition line between shadow and light on the worm is quite sharp rather than blurry, which gives the impression the source is close, and because there's nothing else in the image to confirm or dispel the impression of its direction, it's more difficult to understand its context, what significance it has.
The further away the light source, usually the more blurred the line is. However, in art it's down to the style you want in your work, but without context it's not as obvious. Luther's curves in his shadow help to give an impression of the frontal protrusion of the worm. Also notice that the lip itself casts a shadow beneath it, strengthening the impression of frontal protrusion and an overhead light source, although because there is more light on the side of the worm's body, it looks like the light source is further right.
Be careful not to complicate shadowing, keep it simple. Try to imagine where the light source is and follow its beam down and think about how it reacts with its target. Also consider the 3D aspects of the worm. Shadowing is a good way to emphasize them.
* Clicks Post Quick Reply *

wormthingy
3 Oct 2007, 19:53
well, looks like you got the tail wrong.
Take a look at it, and think "if it were a 3d worm, where would the light on the tail go to?"

AndrewTaylor
3 Oct 2007, 20:19
It's acceptable to have the shadows similar to what you did in your original image if the light source is above and slightly to the right of the worm.
No, it's not. The top of his tail would be lit in that case, as shown in MtlAngelus' and Luter's pictures. But yes, the position of the shading depends on the position of the light source.
The transition line between shadow and light on the worm is quite sharp rather than blurry, which gives the impression the source is close
That's strange, because I've seen that happen in sunlight, and the sun is 93 million miles away.
(The rest is fine.)

worMatty
3 Oct 2007, 22:07
The top of his tail in the first image is lit but he has a shorter neck line so it looks like he's turning left sharply and twisting his body, although perspective doesn't serve the image well here, and it ends up looking too small. The amount of shadow on his tail in the later images is fine if the light source is where we presume.
I originally said the sun was sort of half way between sharp and blurry but I deleted it to prevent anyone picking faults. The sun is massive so I guess it's close in comparison to holding a desk lamp away from a small ball until you get the same sharpness. But I'm no astronomer or physicist.

Akuryou13
4 Oct 2007, 00:37
I think a small shadow helps, plus I'd go along with MtlAngelus. Then again I can't draw the worm very well either.thanks! that looks great.
and worMatty, when I posted that there was absolutely no detail in the image to specify where the light source was. honestly, I don't know if I'm actually going to SHOW the light source at all, I'm just trying out the solid sort of anime-esque shading style, rather than my usual soft-shadowed style.

worMatty
4 Oct 2007, 21:39
I see. The reason I was going on about light sourcing so much is because if you keep it in mind, even if you're not going to have one shown, it makes it easier to think about shadows and how to draw them.

Akuryou13
5 Oct 2007, 00:59
I see. The reason I was going on about light sourcing so much is because if you keep it in mind, even if you're not going to have one shown, it makes it easier to think about shadows and how to draw them.yeah, I agree, but I was having trouble imagining how the light would play off of a worm in the position this worm was in. on a human I wouldn't have the trouble, but I don't have much experience with how a worm reacts to light :p at least not when bent and twisted as this one is :p

MtlAngelus
5 Oct 2007, 02:40
You can allways just bend your thumb and base on that, or make a very simple clay worm.

Akuryou13
5 Oct 2007, 02:49
You can allways just bend your thumb and base on that, or make a very simple clay worm.:eek: I hadn't thought of that! the clay isn't something I really keep around, but the thumb thing is genius! god I'm an idiot

Paul.Power
5 Oct 2007, 08:03
:eek: I hadn't thought of that! the clay isn't something I really keep around, but the thumb thing is genius! god I'm an idiot
This is why these people are artists.
Me, I still take the "dark edges, light centre" point of view. It works fairly well, but I appreciate that it lacks dynamism.

bonz
5 Oct 2007, 11:08
I repeat: safety goggles not eye mask!

Akuryou13
5 Oct 2007, 14:05
This is why these people are artists.
Me, I still take the "dark edges, light centre" point of view. It works fairly well, but I appreciate that it lacks dynamism.I'm somewhere between. I'm trying to learn. got the skill, but trying to learn the techniques and mindset of a real artist rather than a wannabe.
I repeat: safety goggles not eye mask!feel free to look back to all of my art that I've ever done. I've ALWAYS done paul with a full face of goggle. the original sprite looks more like a full head-gear rather than a pair of goggles, and while I do exaggerate it a tad, it still looks good enough to me :p get used to it

Melon
19 Oct 2007, 18:00
Don't mind if I steal this thread off of you do you? No? Good.
For this month's FAOTM I decided to colour it in Flash. It all went pretty well, until I came to the shading. But don't worry, I'm not asking for help on shading correctly, I'm asking for advice on the best way to shade in Flash.
Basically, when using the GIMP, I like to create a new layer, give it an alpha value of about 10%, and then draw over the areas I want shaded in black. This has the benefit of allowing me to just change the layer alpha value at the end to increase or decrease the darkness of the shading, and the shaded colours are sort of "chosen" automatically.
I couldn't seem to do a similar thing in Flash. Is it possible?

Pigbuster
19 Oct 2007, 18:53
Depends on what version of Flash you have.
If it's Flash 8 or higher, you can set a movieclip to "multiply", which acts like photoshop. Make a movieclip out of solid black on the areas to be shaded and you can do it that way.
I dont do that too often, though. I just set a regular paint brush to "paint insides only" and color a darker shade in the other area. Since the brush is set to paint only the inside, you can go wild. Pretty sure most versions of Flash can do this.
It's kinda stupid that you can't apply things like multiply to a layer, but whatever.

SupSuper
19 Oct 2007, 20:05
Basically, when using the GIMP, I like to create a new layer, give it an alpha value of about 10%, and then draw over the areas I want shaded in black. This has the benefit of allowing me to just change the layer alpha value at the end to increase or decrease the darkness of the shading, and the shaded colours are sort of "chosen" automatically.
I couldn't seem to do a similar thing in Flash. Is it possible?You can kinda do this in Flash, the difference is you'd change the attributes of the *brush*, since layers have none.
There's plenty of ways to shade in Flash. You can just paint another color yourself, use alpha values with brushes, movieclips, gradients, etc, or use Flash 8+'s new blending options.
My method is to just set up a Shading layer above the rest, pick a brush with white/black (whether I wanna lighten or darken) with 50% alpha, and draw away. If I want to soften the shading, I select it and use Modify > Shape > Soften Fill Edges. If I need to to prevent the shading from leaking, I set up a mask layer over it. You end up with something like this:

Melon
21 Oct 2007, 21:33
Ah OK. I thought I might have to apply it to individual things I draw rather than the layer.
Thanks. I'll try these out.

Xinos
21 Oct 2007, 22:33
workin on my entry in giving Paul Power an action scene, and I just barely started the worm and ran into a problem. I don't know how to make the light react below the mouth where the tail and the head meet. right now the shadow ends by going directly towards teh rest of the shadow, but I don't really think that looks right. so what SHOULD the light be doing? I tried looking through some art from other people but most opt to have the light coming from the flat side instead of the side with the tail.
You are never going to make any progress if you get all worried about every detail like that..

Akuryou13
22 Oct 2007, 01:38
You are never going to make any progress if you get all worried about every detail like that..yes, I am. in fact, I'm not going to make any progress if I DON'T worry about every detail like that. art is all about details. if I'm ever going to make any art that DOESN'T suck, then I have to pay attention to details.
hell, shading isn't even a MINOR detail. it's one of the biggest, most important things on a piece of artwork. leaving that worm with the shading of the original image I posted would've been the difference between a completely crap finished product and a decent finished product.

philby4000
22 Oct 2007, 23:37
You need to change the way you think about drawing.
you should draw in 3 dimensions. The question isn't 'how should the shading look', but 'which areas are facing the light source'.

Akuryou13
23 Oct 2007, 05:10
You need to change the way you think about drawing.
you should draw in 3 dimensions. The question isn't 'how should the shading look', but 'which areas are facing the light source'. I half do think like that and half don't. hence the knowing something was wrong but not quite being able to figure out what.
with humans I know what areas to shade and such, because I know how light reacts to the human body. up until the thumb trick, though, I had trouble wrapping my head around the unique bends of a worm.

AndrewTaylor
25 Oct 2007, 13:19
If only there was some computer program that showed the worms in 3D...

Akuryou13
25 Oct 2007, 14:55
If only there was some computer program that showed the worms in 3D...har dee har har :p
besides, I've got vista, none of the games work in vista to my knowledge.

HuntaKilla
3 Nov 2007, 07:49
:eek: I hadn't thought of that! the clay isn't something I really keep around, but the thumb thing is genius! god I'm an idiot
You don't need clay, just use a glob of blu-tack and shape it into a worm. It works just as good, and it doesn't dry out so you can make new poses whenever you want. You could use one of those desk lamps with a moveable neck to get the lighting on it.

Akuryou13
3 Nov 2007, 13:21
You don't need clay, just use a glob of blu-tack and shape it into a worm. It works just as good, and it doesn't dry out so you can make new poses whenever you want. You could use one of those desk lamps with a moveable neck to get the lighting on it.interesting idea. might take that to heart when I need help again.

Cyclaws
3 Nov 2007, 20:54
besides, I've got vista, none of the games work in vista to my knowledge.
They all work fine.

Xinos
3 Nov 2007, 21:16
yes, I am. in fact, I'm not going to make any progress if I DON'T worry about every detail like that. art is all about details. if I'm ever going to make any art that DOESN'T suck, then I have to pay attention to details..
I didn't say you should ignore detail. Paying attention to it is very important as you say, but what I meant was that you won't get much work done if you have to ask the community about every little problem you run in to. Quality will come with practice..
Also, draw other things than just worms. Draw things from life, even if they're boring objects, it's good practice.

Akuryou13
4 Nov 2007, 03:09
They all work fine.really? I thought I read that W4 didn't work.......ah well...
I didn't say you should ignore detail. Paying attention to it is very important as you say, but what I meant was that you won't get much work done if you have to ask the community about every little problem you run in to. Quality will come with practice.. which is why I DON'T come to the community for all my problems. in fact, I'm fairly sure this is one of the only problems I've ever come to the community with. I don't know what you've been on recently, but I think you're hallucinating threads :p
Also, draw other things than just worms. Draw things from life, even if they're boring objects, it's good practice. I have a sketch pad at work that I use occassionally, but I use that to draw people from art books and such. I don't finish things I'm not interested in most of the time, and I'm not interested in plants and the like, so I can't motivate myself to draw them. I do however, have a ton of art that's not posted anywhere, cause it's not finished, but it did help me get the idea down, most of the time.

Xinos
5 Nov 2007, 15:52
I don't know what you've been on recently, but I think you're hallucinating threads :p
Yes. This is true. Now please remove all those threads about pink marshmallow monsters that you created in my bathroom, they scare me. :eek:
Ah well, sorry for assuming stuff at random. ;P

Akuryou13
5 Nov 2007, 16:25
Yes. This is true. Now please remove all those threads about pink marshmallow monsters that you created in my bathroom, they scare me. :eek:
Ah well, sorry for assuming stuff at random. ;Plol, forgiven based on the fact that that was just great :p

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