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Von Pepper
12 Sep 2006, 00:24
My friend and I have been experimenting with tunneling by using the shotgun to slowly, cube by cube, blow tunnels through the landscape.
The camara easily bugs out because it's not programmed to look underground, but if you turn it right, you can either look straight down the tunnel you just made, or you can swivel it to see up from inside the ground, which of course, makes it see-through because the textures are one sided.
We've been having a lot of fun doing this, by squeezing small tunnels through different places to make shortcuts.
It takes a long time because of the two shot per turn limit, and is therefore not a good strategy if you're trying to win.
I was thinking that it would be great to re-instate the Blowtorch and Jackhammer into Worms4: Mayhem, and I think it would be rather simple to do.
Firepunch can burrow straight up through any surface so why not make something that goes straight down or sideways?
I thought the blowtorch could operate somewhat like the jetpack, in that it has only so much fuel and you use the directional keys to move while holding down the fire button to activate it.
it may seem complicated because the size of the terrain cubes varies with the type of texture or size of the mountain; this means that while tunneling a perfectly square tunnel through one mountain, you might find that when you run into a new mountain connected to it, the tunnel may become too small to fit into, or be bent or skewed.
This could be fixed by making the blowtorch cover just enough area in front of the worm so that s/he could fit through and making it so that any block in the way will get elmiminated, even if this makes odd hollows or squares of eliminated terrain through the tunnel, like the tunnel suddenly becoming twice as tall because it got just a little to short to fit through.
the jackhammer is simple enough, like the firepunch but upside down, operating the same way that it did in worms:armageddon, after all, 2D or 3D, there is only one way down.
I hope the devs see this and seriously consider making a small update for this idea, I would do it myself but I have no knowledge of scripting and don't have access to the scripting engine anyway.
look into it!
Von Pepper

Plasma
12 Sep 2006, 00:48
The official excuse from Team17 was:
The camara easily bugs out because it's not programmed to look underground,

Von Pepper
12 Sep 2006, 12:37
ah, that's fine though, it might not make it look official or well made if they had included it, but cmon, I don't think anyone here would say that it would ruin the game if they were included, I think that people would actually like it.
I mean, if it takes a poll to get Team 17s attention then I'll set up one.
Besides, they gave us the capability to tunnel using the shotgun, sniper rifle and any other elxplosive or weapon you can make, so any darksiders like me will see what the terrain looks like underground one way or another.
it would just be quicker and more fun if we could have better tools.
if anyone thinks this is a qood idea, than please say so, and if you want to see what I mean, try tunneling for yourself, particularly in "mine all mine".
"nice to siege you" looks like a good candidate too but I havent tried it yet.

robowurmz
12 Sep 2006, 16:56
Feeding Tree-Rex looks very cool when you shoot the ground on the cliff from the tree and make a tunnel through the earth up there, and out of the side of the cliff.
My friend couldn't harm me in my curving downwards tunnel in there! ;)

Von Pepper
12 Sep 2006, 19:24
I am trying to get enough people to agree with me so I can get Team 17s attention and get them to make an update for this.
if you like tunneling and think the blowtorch and jackhammer is a good idea, than please say so, I will continue to try and reach the devs and tell them about my idea.

Plasma
12 Sep 2006, 20:52
ah, that's fine though, it might not make it look official or well made if they had included it, but cmon, I don't think anyone here would say that it would ruin the game if they were included, I think that people would actually like it.
People that buy the game without seeing what it's like without the blowtorch will just think of it as a huge bug and lack of professionalism. Team17 would actually gain more respect without it.
I will continue to try and reach the devs and tell them about my idea.
They already know about your idea, I'm pretty sure they already tried it when making the game.

robowurmz
13 Sep 2006, 21:49
Diggin Tools! We Must Have!
All Your Dig Tools Are Belong To Us!

Von Pepper
14 Sep 2006, 01:32
People that buy the game without seeing what it's like without the blowtorch will just think of it as a huge bug and lack of professionalism. Team17 would actually gain more respect without it.
They already know about your idea, I'm pretty sure they already tried it when making the game.
I hear what you're saying and I agree, but now that the game has pretty much sold out, I think it wouldn't really injure their reputation to make an update containing two unmarketable, yet dearly wanted experiments.
that way, anyone buying the game doesn't even know the blowtorch is available unless they search for it, and once they found it, it's up to them to download it or not.
I think if they set it up on an official downloads page, selling these updates for maybe a buck or two, they could make some money on the side, that's what bethesda softworks does, look at them, they've created one of the most sofisticated and high graphics games ever: Elder scrolls 4: Oblivion.
and they sell mods on their website so that people can browse and see what they'de like to add to the game and the company can make a little pocket cash.
but now I'm getting off topic, I still think it would be a good idea to have SOME sort of digging equipment, even if it's like a really accurate, hand held sentry gun that deals no damage, so you can blast tunnels through anything in sight, I mean, anything could work, just something to dig with!

Vader
14 Sep 2006, 02:06
Before I start I feel I should say that I'm not a 3D Worms player. It just never felt right to me. Having said that, I'm all for your idea.
How about a shovel which digs through land... or a pick-axe, Lemmings style?
That way the swing of the shovel could be made to cover the height and width of a worm and suddenly heightened tunnels could be explained away with a comment like "the worm decided the hole was getting small so he dug more out".
With a shovel you'd be able to dig in any direction, including straight down. I guess the problem lies in dealing believable damage.

robowurmz
14 Sep 2006, 08:58
Yeah, the debris effects would look really cool with digging.

Maunem2
14 Sep 2006, 10:08
I too for Blowtorch and Jackhammer!
But I think, that Team17 cannot include them in a patch for Worms 4... But it is possible to be overcome in Worms 5...
In " Speculatoin and Discussion " - " Worms 5, sugesstion " I have already made the offer how to return Jackhammer in following game. To whom not laziness - look (page 5)!

Von Pepper
14 Sep 2006, 14:15
Before I start I feel I should say that I'm not a 3D Worms player. It just never felt right to me. Having said that, I'm all for your idea.
How about a shovel which digs through land... or a pick-axe, Lemmings style?
That way the swing of the shovel could be made to cover the height and width of a worm and suddenly heightened tunnels could be explained away with a comment like "the worm decided the hole was getting small so he dug more out".
With a shovel you'd be able to dig in any direction, including straight down. I guess the problem lies in dealing believable damage.
lol, I agree, I started as a worms: armageddon player, but I got bored of the limited weapons, they never made any new ones and there was no way to make any.
the main reason I disliked the whole 3D worms idea was that the terrain was not destructible, which I though was a huge part of the whole worms series.
but then when I heard of mayhem, I checked it out, and got really enthused about it because not only was it 3Dbut it used destructible terrain and custom weapons, so I became a mayhem nut ever since, under the grounds of
much more interaction, because you could also dress up the worms, which I also found boring about the 2D games.
I like the shovel idea, you could have like, 6 swings per turn, use the Q vision to aim, get close and click to eliminate one block.

Destroyer
20 Sep 2006, 12:13
it be quicker to reinstall kamakazie but the sacrafice is one worm

Plasma
20 Sep 2006, 23:20
Before I start I feel I should say that I'm not a 3D Worms player. It just never felt right to me. Having said that, I'm all for your idea.
How about a shovel which digs through land... or a pick-axe, Lemmings style?
That way the swing of the shovel could be made to cover the height and width of a worm and suddenly heightened tunnels could be explained away with a comment like "the worm decided the hole was getting small so he dug more out".
With a shovel you'd be able to dig in any direction, including straight down. I guess the problem lies in dealing believable damage.
*cough*
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showpost.php?p=531463&postcount=2
it be quicker to reinstall kamakazie but the sacrafice is one worm
They have the Starburst weapon to replace the Kamikaze.

Kelster23
21 Sep 2006, 00:51
One of my weird thoughts that I just got:
What if you could have a boat?
OR WORMS UNDERWATER WARS IN SUBMARINES!
I think I had too much chocolate...

Pieboy337
21 Sep 2006, 19:10
perhaps a nice fresh idea for worms 5 :) wars with subs, aircrafts and tanks!

guyy
22 Sep 2006, 06:42
It's no blowtorch, but after a bit of messing around I came up with a tweaked shotgun that shoots very fast and has an infinite # of bullets (it doesn't do damage or shove worms though ;) ), allowing you to dig some worm-sized holes through things very quickly. Don't expect too much though, I only spent a few minutes on this. :p
If you haven't used a tweak before: find your Worms 4 Mayhem folder and go to Data/Tweak, make a backup of WeapTwk.xml, then put this version in there. DON'T USE THIS ONLINE or you will be banned (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25887); when you want to go online, delete this file and put your backed-up original WeapTwk back in that folder.

Destroyer
23 Sep 2006, 14:31
Starburst is kool but, kamakazie lets you go through landscape. Starburst just blows it up.

Maunem2
24 Sep 2006, 14:10
Starburst is kool but, kamakazie lets you go through landscape. Starburst just blows it up.
It has already been told...
Firepunch can burrow straight up through any surface...
...So, we need only in Blowtorch & in Jackhammer.:cool:

Von Pepper
25 Sep 2006, 01:36
It's no blowtorch, but after a bit of messing around I came up with a tweaked shotgun that shoots very fast and has an infinite # of bullets (it doesn't do damage or shove worms though ;) ), allowing you to dig some worm-sized holes through things very quickly. Don't expect too much though, I only spent a few minutes on this. :p
If you haven't used a tweak before: find your Worms 4 Mayhem folder and go to Data/Tweak, make a backup of WeapTwk.xml, then put this version in there. DON'T USE THIS ONLINE or you will be banned (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=25887); when you want to go online, delete this file and put your backed-up original WeapTwk back in that folder.
ah-ha! someone after my own heart!
does this weapon replace shotgun or fill in that extra slot?
I like shotgun and if that will disappear then I don't think I will be loading it.
I tried to do that but I have no knowledge of scripting, and hoping it would be a more simple script, I was disheartened when I opened the shotgun file, it just looks like a lot of looping to me...

guyy
25 Sep 2006, 06:57
It does replace the shotgun; there isn't really any other way to do it. But it's not permanent...just put back the original WeapTwk.xml and the shotgun will be back to normal.
This isn't really scripting, it's more like messing with variables. Much of the tweak file is confusing and not very useful, but if you go to the right place it's pretty obvious how it works. Search for:
<GunWeaponPropertiesContainer id='kWeaponShotgun-0'>
...and you should get to a bunch of properties for the shotgun, written in the HTML-style format of "<property name>value</property name again>". Most of the properties are self-explanatory...just make sure to only change the "value" part. :p (And also make sure you have a backup before changing anything!)

Maunem2
25 Sep 2006, 09:52
It does replace the shotgun; there isn't really any other way to do it. But it's not permanent...just put back the original WeapTwk.xml and the shotgun will be back to normal.
This isn't really scripting, it's more like messing with variables. Much of the tweak file is confusing and not very useful, but if you go to the right place it's pretty obvious how it works. Search for:
<GunWeaponPropertiesContainer id='kWeaponShotgun-0'>
...and you should get to a bunch of properties for the shotgun, written in the HTML-style format of "<property name>value</property name again>". Most of the properties are self-explanatory...just make sure to only change the "value" part. :p (And also make sure you have a backup before changing anything!)
Do we need in the special program for work with format XML or we can make it using Word?

Von Pepper
25 Sep 2006, 14:10
Do we need in the special program for work with format XML or we can make it using Word?
actually if you select open with, the best is to choose something called either "editor" or "wordpad"
one or the other I think it's called, but anyway, it's default to my knowledge so anyone with windows xp/2000 should have it.
it's like word but much more simple, and it just allows you to see all the gibberish code that makes the thing you're trying to edit.
btw, couldn't you make a backup copy of shotgun and edit that?
you'd have to find a way to place it in the right folder so it shows up as a utility though, or add more script to it to tell it to occupy the empty slot by the utilities.

Maunem2
25 Sep 2006, 17:44
Thanks!
I know WordPad - it was my 1st text editor... :D
Well, I can transfer a backup on my floppy... :rolleyes:

guyy
26 Sep 2006, 02:45
btw, couldn't you make a backup copy of shotgun and edit that?
Well, it's called "copying" for a reason...:p
Once you've copied it, it doesn't matter whether you change the new one or the old one, as long as you don't change both. The one the game will actually use has to be called "WeapTwk", though.
...Or do you mean just back up the "kWeaponShotgun" block within the file? If so, that will work...but because of the banning issue, it's probably safer to just back up the whole file.

Maunem2
26 Sep 2006, 13:34
It does replace the shotgun; there isn't really any other way to do it. But it's not permanent...just put back the original WeapTwk.xml and the shotgun will be back to normal.
This isn't really scripting, it's more like messing with variables. Much of the tweak file is confusing and not very useful, but if you go to the right place it's pretty obvious how it works. Search for:
<GunWeaponPropertiesContainer id='kWeaponShotgun-0'>
...and you should get to a bunch of properties for the shotgun, written in the HTML-style format of "<property name>value</property name again>". Most of the properties are self-explanatory...just make sure to only change the "value" part. :p (And also make sure you have a backup before changing anything!)
I have found <GunWeaponPropertiesContainer id ='kWeaponShotgun-0 '>, but I could not find <property name> value </property name again>...
Where is it?
I'm not good at scripting...:(

parsley
26 Sep 2006, 13:38
He means that <property name> value </property name again> is a template.
For example, if one wished to change, say, the damage member, look for <damage>1.5</damage>
A worm's name could look like, <WormName>Lancelot</WormName>

Von Pepper
27 Sep 2006, 03:10
Well, it's called "copying" for a reason...:p
Once you've copied it, it doesn't matter whether you change the new one or the old one, as long as you don't change both. The one the game will actually use has to be called "WeapTwk", though.
...Or do you mean just back up the "kWeaponShotgun" block within the file? If so, that will work...but because of the banning issue, it's probably safer to just back up the whole file.
:) lol, I have no idea which would work but I never use online play, always hotseat so the banning thing really doesn't matter to me.
besides, you said it was reversible, if I wanted to play online, I can just delete the tweak.
What I think would work is to do whatever it takes to copy the shotgun so you have a completely independant weapon to work on that's based on the shotgun. how to get it to pop up in the game style ammo list or in the weapons menu is the real challenge.

guyy
27 Sep 2006, 07:03
how to get it to pop up in the game style ammo list or in the weapons menu is the real challenge.
Well, yeah, that's the problem...as far as I know, no one's figured out how to do that, if it's even possible. You probably can't add a new weapon without modifying the game code itself. So, don't spend too much time trying to to that. ;)

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