Drawing tips for you arty types. [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Luther
5 Apr 2004, 12:14
This was originally posted as a reply on another thread, but I thought it could do with a thread of it's own.
Here's a couple of tips for you.
Draw on paper with pencils. You'll never get the results you want with a mouse. If you can afford it you might like to get a graphics tablet and pen to draw on the computer. Drawing on paper is a skill you'll never regret learning. The artists here always draw their pictures in three stages:
1 Light blue pencil. Use this to rough out the drawing and get everything in place. The artists here use a specific kind of pencil that can be rubbed out. It's the SANFORD COL-ERASE 20068 Light Blue. You may not be able to find it in the shops, so check the internet. Drawing in light blue will enable you to work out the basic shapes that you will be using without making a horrible mess. I can't recommend this enough. Try it and see the quality of your drawings improve instantly.
2 Pencil (HB). Once you have your drawing roughed out in light blue you'll want to commit yourself to some black lines. An HB pencil should do fine. This is the point where you choose the most beautiful lines to use. The light blue rough lines will help you to get the results you want. Take your time and don't be scared to get it wrong. Practice is the only way to master this. A professional artist will do this all day every day. You can tell who has put the hours in.
3 (optional) Scan the image and colour it in with Photoshop using a tablet and pen. This is the expensive bit. It's how images are cleaned up and coloured in here. Your drawing should look perfect on paper before you do this. Don't try to skip stage 1 or 2. Traditional artists will shun the computer alltogether and use a pen (try Rotring or Edding) to ink in the pencil lines. This takes a lot of courage but it looks superb.
Here's a couple of small examples of what this process looks like. I've taken two small sections of concept art from Patrick, since he's better at drawing than me. You should be able to clearly see how he's worked initially in light blue and then in pencil.
http://www.team17.com/forumpics/oldwomansketch.jpg
http://www.team17.com/forumpics/boggysketch.jpg
I hope this helps.
Any questions?

Alien King
5 Apr 2004, 12:20
do we have to use the light blue pencils.
i don't think i can order them over internet

Luther
5 Apr 2004, 12:29
do we have to use the light blue pencils.
i don't think i can order them over internet
They are not hard to find on the internet. Simply do a Google search on the words "sanford col-erase" . I recommend this brand because it rubs out cleanly. You can use any light blue pencil but the results are not so clean with other brands. Have a look in your local art shop if you can't buy on the internet. I'm only pushing this brand because it's the one that we've found gives the best results. If you really can't get one of these pencils then just use any light blue pencil.
Light blue works really well for the rough stage because it doesn't compete with the final black lines. Your eye finds it easy to filter out the blue and just see the black. You can colour over it too.

UnKnown X
5 Apr 2004, 12:45
You mean this (http://www.dickblick.com/zz205/12/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=1267) colour set?
Double Post Edit:
And does Paint Shop Pro 8 work too? I've tried PhotoShop 7 and it's not THAT superior (IMO)

Alien King
5 Apr 2004, 12:50
yeah. does paint shop pro 5 work just as well. or ulead photo express.
well it works for me

Luther
5 Apr 2004, 13:45
You mean this (http://www.dickblick.com/zz205/12/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=1267) colour set?
And does Paint Shop Pro 8 work too? I've tried PhotoShop 7 and it's not THAT superior (IMO)
Yes, that's the set I mean.
Use whatever image software you are most comfortable with. Photoshop is industry standard.
The important part of the process happens on paper.

AndrewTaylor
5 Apr 2004, 13:51
I find the key thing is to use a programme you can understand. I couldn't work PhotoShop at first, but now I use it for anything I consider complex enough to be worth its loading time.
The hardest part of colouring an image on computer is working with the antialiasing - i.e. getting rid of the grey (or light blue) edges of black lines. I'd probably colour on the layer below the outline, and make the outline a greyscale layer with "multiply" blending. I'd up the contrast too if the lines weren't 000 black.

Squirminator2k
5 Apr 2004, 14:12
Most of the time I just draw using a standard gel pen. I scan that in and colour it using PSP7. On some occasions I'll draw and shade using a pencil and then colourise the image in PSP7 by adjusting the brightness and then the RGB value of the area I select (that's what I did for the S-2K image in my Avatar, and for the HQ buttons for the Wormiverse Forum RPG).
All of the concept art I did for ProjectCF3 was created using a SANFORD COL-ERASE 20068 Light Blue and digital inking and colouring. I tend not to use this method for my Fanart, though...

Star Worms
5 Apr 2004, 15:34
Thanks for the tips, Luther, that blue pencil tip is great. It's really improved my drawings. At the moment I'm sketching a copy of Patrick's worm and then I'll try other things.
::Edit::
Do you have any tips for drawing definitions? For example the mouth because my drawings always look 2 dimensional. I find it hard to make it stick out.
::Edit 2::
Here's my sketch of the worm:

UnKnown X
5 Apr 2004, 16:19
That's really nifty.

Alien King
5 Apr 2004, 16:41
that is good. i can't seem to get all the details

Luther
5 Apr 2004, 17:21
At the moment I'm sketching a copy of Patrick's worm and then I'll try other things.
Do you have any tips for drawing definitions? For example the mouth because my drawings always look 2 dimensional. I find it hard to make it stick out.
Here's my sketch of the worm:
Good start. Notice how Patrick's pencil lines are very smooth and confident. He uses the blue pencil to work out where he wants his lines and then commits to the best line with a pencil. This is the bit that takes a lot of practice. Patrick has drawn that worm in thousands of different poses. Quality of line only comes out of dedicated practice.
The only useful thing I can say here is to keep drawing. The best kind of practice is life drawing, not making up imaginary characters. Get a small, hardback sketch book and carry it around. Whenever you have a few minutes to spare draw whatever is in front of you. Draw everything. Try not to select the easiest things to draw. It's meant to be challenging.
Once you've got through a few (hundred) sketch books you'll be able to see your skills improving in a meaningful way. The bad news is that there are no shortcuts. The good news is that anyone with enough determination can do it.
I can't recommend many good books. If you want to know how facial expressions work you could invest in Facial Expressions by Gary Faigin. I use this excellent book a lot for reference. The Worm is just a head with a tail, so understanding how faces are constructed is very important. Once you've got a handle on the basic geomentry of the head you'll find it a lot easier to draw convincing, recognisable portraits.
I have to go home now, so I'll stop writing.
Later :}

Alien King
5 Apr 2004, 17:38
ok. thanks for the tips luther
this is what (after about an hour of trying) i've managed to do
i ain't any good at hands or limbs

Run
5 Apr 2004, 18:38
Here's my input, even if it's an obvious point:
If you need to draw a long, smooth curve, put your hand on the inside of that curve and use it as a sort of pivot. I find it essential, even if it means my paper is constantly spinning around as a result.

UnKnown X
5 Apr 2004, 19:06
Yeah, I always do that...

Star Worms
5 Apr 2004, 19:10
On the hand which is behind his back I noticed Patrick did a circle so he could make the bottom edge of the circle the smooth bottom to the hand and the top bits so that where the digits join are equally spaced from the palm. That hand took longer than any part of the worm for me to do.
Try and notice the exact curve. For example the figer which is pointing curves upwards slightly which makes it look a bit bigger at the end.

philby4000
5 Apr 2004, 20:16
i gotta get me some of them blue pencils!

Alien King
6 Apr 2004, 08:14
thx for the tips guys.
i'll do another one with hands later.
and phillby. u don't need blue pencils. they just work better than normal pencils

UnKnown X
6 Apr 2004, 08:23
That's why he needs blue pencils.

HuntaKilla
6 Apr 2004, 12:21
Aaaw, man! And all I thought you needed to do a good pic was a bit of paper and a pencil! Thanx for making me feel like my pics are inferior...I don't have any of that fancy stuff but you guys can't see my hand-drawn pics anyway caus I don't even have a scanner, let alone SANFORD COL-ERASE 20068 Light Blue bloody pencils!

AndrewTaylor
6 Apr 2004, 12:24
I suspect the pencil would be cheaper than the scanner.

Luther
6 Apr 2004, 13:52
Aaaw, man! And all I thought you needed to do a good pic was a bit of paper and a pencil! Thanx for making me feel like my pics are inferior...I don't have any of that fancy stuff but you guys can't see my hand-drawn pics anyway caus I don't even have a scanner, let alone SANFORD COL-ERASE 20068 Light Blue bloody pencils!
I'm sorry, but I think you've misunderstood me. I did say, repeatedly, that the most important part of the whole process was the part involving the pencil and paper. A Sanford Col-Erase Light Blue is a pencil. It costs the same as a pencil. You use it like a pencil. It's not "fancy stuff". It's a bloody pencil!
I wrote these tips for the "arty types". I'll assume that they have enough interest in drawing to save up and buy a light blue pencil. Last night, while I was at home I managed to produce some very pleasing BoggyB drawings using a light blue pencil from my 5 year old son's pencil case. Do you know a 5 year old that can lend you a pencil?
Many schools and libraries will scan images for you if you ask. Do you have a friend or parent with access to a scanner?
I know you're in NSW, but I'm sure there must be someone with a scanner or digital camera in the area. You obviously have access to a PC.

Alien King
6 Apr 2004, 16:04
i'm finding thos special pencils hard to find.
is it all right if i only use a standerd light blue pencil
that's what i used with my 2 pics up above

philby4000
6 Apr 2004, 16:25
i'm finding thos special pencils hard to find.
is it all right if i only use a standerd light blue pencil
that's what i used with my 2 pics up above
the idea of the special pencils is that you can rub them out.
if yopu'r using a computer program to colour it doessn't matter, but if you colour by hand it's useful to be able to remove the big blue lines.

Luther
6 Apr 2004, 16:46
the idea of the special pencils is that you can rub them out.
if yopu'r using a computer program to colour it doessn't matter, but if you colour by hand it's useful to be able to remove the big blue lines.
Indeed. That's the only reason for me suggesting a specific brand. The blue pencil is used for the initial sketchy working out, before you put down your final black lines. It's handy to be able to rub out a lot of this stuff. You generally don't really want all your mistakes and experiments on the final drawing, although it can look quite funky.

Alien King
6 Apr 2004, 16:56
u could:
do your sketching on a piece of paper.
draw over the lines u want in pen.
then trace onto another peice of paper

Star Worms
6 Apr 2004, 19:12
That's messy and is a complete waste of pencil graphite:p It's more complicated and will take longer. All I used was a standard light blue pencil. Most colour pencils rub out well, just not completely, just do light strokes with the pencil and don't draw hard lines because they won't rub out.

Traxada
7 Apr 2004, 00:43
luthers got a point, the main image is what goes down on paper, all the photoshop stuff and all that dont matter untill you have your image, anywho i really should be listening to ur advice luther but i normally jus draw with any old pencil i find laying about :rolleyes: i even tried to draw with a banana once :eek:

MtlAngelus
7 Apr 2004, 03:42
thanks for the tips Luther :)

Shadow259
7 Apr 2004, 03:59
Aaaw, man! And all I thought you needed to do a good pic was a bit of paper and a pencil! Thanx for making me feel like my pics are inferior...I don't have any of that fancy stuff but you guys can't see my hand-drawn pics anyway caus I don't even have a scanner, let alone SANFORD COL-ERASE 20068 Light Blue bloody pencils!
then get a drawing tablet. those are pretty nice, and usu come with some type of software.

Alien King
7 Apr 2004, 08:39
shadow. it's more helpful if u used more complete words.
took me long enough to see the usu is usually.
u c if u type like dis. pple don't understand wat u r talkin about

HuntaKilla
7 Apr 2004, 09:35
Okay okay...so you're saying you can use any damn pencil, as long as it's blue, and that your drawings instantly look a zillion times better? I've never drawn outlines in blue pencils, only lead ones. Plus, it's harder to rub out blue pencil lines than lead ones. I can't get any of those ones you mentioned, caus I can't order stuff over the net. I've got blue Crayola and Faber-Castell pencils, tho I've never used them as I would use a lead pencil, only for colouring. So you reckon blue is better? I've mentioned to my parents about wanting a scanner, so hopefully we'll get one soon...

Luther
7 Apr 2004, 09:51
Okay okay...so you're saying you can use any damn pencil, as long as it's blue, and that your drawings instantly look a zillion times better? I've never drawn outlines in blue pencils, only lead ones. Plus, it's harder to rub out blue pencil lines than lead ones. I can't get any of those ones you mentioned, caus I can't order stuff over the net. I've got blue Crayola and Faber-Castell pencils, tho I've never used them as I would use a lead pencil, only for colouring. So you reckon blue is better? I've mentioned to my parents about wanting a scanner, so hopefully we'll get one soon...
Steady on with the enthusiasm! I can't take all this positivity!
I'm not trying to persuade you to do anything. I'm just telling you what the standard professional method is. We don't do it this way for no reason. It works and it's easy.
Maybe you could ask your parents to buy you a nice set of 12 assorted Sanford Col-erase pencils. They cost fifty cents each. What parent would say no to such a request? How about just 2 light blues? One US dollar plus shipping.
You don't even have to use light blue. Experiment with other light colours and see if any work better for you. Light blue is what most artists use but it's not mandatory.
Alien King is correct in suggesting that you could trace your final picture from your working out. This is often how it's done. Here we would use a light box and skip the tracing paper. This method is excellent for producing 2D animations.

Dimworm
7 Apr 2004, 12:46
All I do is use a normal HB pencil (or a B if I can find one), sketch out what I want lightly on paper, then use this really cool graphics pen I 'aqquired' from a friend to put in my final lines. Then I get a rubber and remove all the pencil lines, then scan it in and use photoshop 7 to clean it up a bit. Works for me. But I'll probably try looking for one of those pencils next time I'm in town.

AndrewTaylor
7 Apr 2004, 12:56
I'd have thought am H would be more use for light sketching?

Dimworm
7 Apr 2004, 12:57
Probably, but whenever I buy something (such as a set of pencils), they immediately get lost in the jungle of my bedroom. I tend to use a HB because it's the only one I can find.

Run
7 Apr 2004, 13:09
Alien King is correct in suggesting that you could trace your final picture from your working out. This is often how it's done. Here we would use a light box and skip the tracing paper. This method is excellent for producing 2D animations.
In that you can draw the next frame by tracing the previous frame but not quite exact?
That's a cunning way of doing it actually, I wish i thought of that (not that I would actually do anything with such an idea...far too lazy)

Alien King
7 Apr 2004, 16:03
hey guys.
i tried using the tips to make a hand and im made a complate mess.
can u plz try to explain a little differently
(also can u help me improcve this pic. apart from the jetpack)

Squirminator2k
7 Apr 2004, 16:19
Please note that although this technique can improve the quality of your drawings, it still requires you to have some drawing skill. Using a blue pencil does not automatically transform you into an award-winning sketch artist.

Alien King
7 Apr 2004, 16:22
i know this.
that's why i'm asking u how i can improve it

Luther
7 Apr 2004, 16:41
hey guys.
i tried using the tips to make a hand and im made a complate mess.
can u plz try to explain a little differently
(also can u help me improcve this pic. apart from the jetpack)
OK, BoggyB's hands are very easy to draw when they're open. When you're roughing out the drawing you should place a simple circle for the palm. Around that you place four smaller circles for the fingertips. This stage should look like a puppy's paw print. Now join the smaller circles to the bigger one to make the hand.
The worm's hands are pretty chunky. AK, your worm's hands are quite skinny. Think phatter. You would benefit from spending a little time drawing real hands.
Don't expect to be able to draw like Patrick without putting in the hours that he has. He has done sheets and sheets of worm hand drawings in different positions.
I'm trying to persuade Patrick to do a "How to draw a worm" tutorial. I think a step-by-step guide would be interesting.

Alien King
7 Apr 2004, 17:50
thnx for the advice luther.
a guide would be very interasting.
so how do u do a worms hand and closed?

Shadow259
7 Apr 2004, 18:57
shadow. it's more helpful if u used more complete words.
took me long enough to see the usu is usually.
u c if u type like dis. pple don't understand wat u r talkin about
actually, i understood exactly what u said. It waz pretty easy 2 decifer, + i dont use much of small words. ex. i dont say "dis" i do say this. and i spell out people. besides u evar look at a dictionary, it says usu alot. Get used 2 typical online talk sheesh. If it shaves time 4 me 2 type, then ill type it.
Good drawing Alien king tho on ur drawing, the hands could b bigger, but otherwise it looks pretty good.
I'll post hand drawn pics as soon as i get another printer (that would b like in 3 yrs) or if i find my drawing tablet. :)

xXSpIDerXx
7 Apr 2004, 19:12
A guide you say? That will be neat. Maybe i will finally learn to draw worms properly, not like a 3 year boy...

Shadow259
7 Apr 2004, 19:15
hey, yea that would b cool, id use it! definitly if it made my pics better :D

Dimworm
7 Apr 2004, 19:18
Heres a few hand drawn things I've been drawing today. There's three firepunch ones, each one representing each stage I go through when drawing something. Some of them are a bit smudged though, because I can't really be bothered at the minute to go into photoshop and clean them up. Comments?

Shadow259
7 Apr 2004, 19:20
hey those are really good! 4 the fire punch, it needs the flame thing around the hands.
and the bazooka's shadow is 2 dark, and the worms shadow is incomplete. other than that, they are really good, and i couldnt do any better!! keep up the good work! :)

Dimworm
7 Apr 2004, 19:26
Cheers, I'll work on that next time

Alien King
7 Apr 2004, 19:34
Heres a few hand drawn things I've been drawing today. There's three firepunch ones, each one representing each stage I go through when drawing something. Some of them are a bit smudged though, because I can't really be bothered at the minute to go into photoshop and clean them up. Comments?
very good. how on earth do u get the hands to be so good?
my attempt at improving my hands. (to be honest i think that they look worse)

Dimworm
7 Apr 2004, 19:36
very good. how on earth do u get the hands to be so good?
my attempt at improving my hands. (to be honest i think that they look worse)
Whenever there's something I can't draw, I just get a few pictures of what it is I want to draw, then keep on drawing it until I feel confident enough. Try it AK

Shadow259
8 Apr 2004, 07:40
very good. how on earth do u get the hands to be so good?
my attempt at improving my hands. (to be honest i think that they look worse)
i personally shen i draw, i make a stick figure, draw bubbles, then outline. Hands are hard, but keep in mind that u can use a stick bone hand, draw bubbles, outline, erase bubble and skelital lines, add details. have a scanner, but my comp is a desktop, and i cant move it.. ill get my laptop and upload it there, then file share what i mean. hopefully it worx for u. also, get rid of the lines that u have there between fingers and the palm
Double Post Edit:
first worm pic that i drew then scanned is here!
lines didnt come out well, but thank god for good
old fotoshop! :rolleyes:
i just like the hands personally

HuntaKilla
8 Apr 2004, 10:55
Okay okay...so you're saying you can use any damn pencil, as long as it's blue, and that your drawings instantly look a zillion times better?
OMG! I tried it, and it really works! I just used a plain old light-blue crayola pencil, sketched the outline of a worm with it, went over it with a 2B lead pencil, and...WHOAH! :eek: I thought to myself "Did I actually draw that??" I had to look a it a few times and convince myself that I actually did it. I dunno, it just somehow looks more professional, and the lines are cleaner....EVERYONE HAS TO TRY IT!! Just get any damn light blue pencil and do it, you'll see what I mean!

Star Worms
8 Apr 2004, 13:09
very good. how on earth do u get the hands to be so good?
my attempt at improving my hands. (to be honest i think that they look worse)
You did it wrong. draw a large circle for the palm with your blue pencil
Then draw 4 smaller circles where you want the fingertips to be. Then join them up smoothly with your blue pencil and then go over it with your graphite pencil.

Alien King
8 Apr 2004, 15:01
this drawing circles doesn't help me.
i just get a circuler palm and odd fingers

MtlAngelus
8 Apr 2004, 16:44
here's a better explanation
sorry for the bad quality, i'm in the crashy laptop which has a horrible mouse

Alien King
8 Apr 2004, 17:27
my problem is not WHERE to put the fingers
it's the problem that i can't draw fingers. these circles don't help me draw them.

Shadow259
8 Apr 2004, 18:25
use ur own hand as an example. the circles will help u with the fingers, ur hand will help with the pose, and the shape of the fingers. remember that the fingers are shorter and stubbier than urs

Alien King
9 Apr 2004, 15:07
ok.
thanx.

AndrwAnmtn
15 Jun 2004, 19:55
that stuff about using col-erase light blue is right, and they're not hard to find
u can get em here (http://www.currys.com/drymedia/prodinfo1.asp?SubcatID=624&catID=3) or here (http://www.shop-links.net/ppf/aid/1/pcat/1027/product/7145481/pageno/12/productdetail.asp)

thomasp
15 Jun 2004, 20:52
Merged AndrwAnmtn's thread with this one, as it is better here than in a separate thread.
Also, closed and stickied this thread.

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