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Shadowmoon
5 Jun 2008, 19:04
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/963/lemmingwormcv6.png
A Lemming worm, and its an entry for the june FAOTM in the team17.tk forum.
Last time, i overreacted when people gave me help. I won't do it this time.
I use flash for most of my pics, and i draw my worms in flash with the mouse, but in paint i do it with the line tool.
Requests won't be taken right now.
More pics coming soon.;)

Plasma
5 Jun 2008, 19:06
1: Don't use straight line tool.
Now we get to watch you ignore all tips and get the thread locked again!

.JeT
5 Jun 2008, 19:06
Well, as it looks now, the worm is all good besides the tail, which is a little flat. Even though it has a shirt there seems to be no fold present on the tail, too.

Shadowmoon
5 Jun 2008, 19:10
1: Don't use straight line tool.
Now we get to watch you ignore all tips and get the thread locked again!
Last time, i overreacted when people gave me help. I won't do it this time.
I will listen to people this time. Also i forgot the crease on the tail.
Mouse drawn worms with paint always look weird which is why i don't do them.;)

Squirminator2k
5 Jun 2008, 19:13
Heavens. It's actually getting worse.
Okay, here's some constructive criticism. The colours are flat, your expressionless worm is expressionless. The tail shows minor improvement but the eyebrows are worse. Is that hair or a shrubbery? Is that a pick-axe or one of those tiny doctor hammers? Are those eyes or goggles? Remember that straight lines seldom look right or good, and that's more or less where you're getting this wrong.
It is possible to draw good stuff in MSPaint, it's all about technique. Take [this (http://squirminator2k.deviantart.com/art/Worm-with-a-Handgun-19397238)], for example. Or [this (http://squirminator2k.deviantart.com/art/Bazooka-Bert-16125801)]. Or [this (http://squirminator2k.deviantart.com/art/Steve-The-Devil-16125688)]. I drew all of those with a mouse in MSPaint while I was at work a few of years ago. The first one is my favourite - I experimented with different line colours.

Shadowmoon
5 Jun 2008, 19:15
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7505/flamingkatanashadbj6.png
Compare. Tell me which is better, my paint pics or the flash pics.

Plasma
5 Jun 2008, 19:17
Use flash.

Shadowmoon
5 Jun 2008, 19:19
Use flash.
Okay, flash will be my main choice of program.
Most of the criticism in my thread was that the worm looked like a robot and also about the hands and fire.

.JeT
5 Jun 2008, 19:41
I have made a little try into what direction you should go.
First: The tail. This way i would do the bulge seems real, and is easy to do. Just do an upside down U shape at where the bend is. The tail should also have a nice curve.
The head needs more shape and definition, as well as the eyes and eyebrows. The eyebrows are too big, and the head is a bit too square. The eyes are too round and alike, even if his head is watching the right way.
Also, make more poses and expressions. When he works with a pickaxe, maybe he should look tired and uneasy, maybe have a little sweatdrop jump from him like on the picture.
(Sorry for bad quality)
There's just this bit where S2K said, the colors might seem too vivid. Try making them darker, desaturate them.

Squirminator2k
5 Jun 2008, 20:59
Except .JeT's hands and tail-fold on that drawing aren't ideal, but you get the general idea.

Shadowmoon
5 Jun 2008, 21:11
How do i desaturate them?

Melon
5 Jun 2008, 21:46
How do i desaturate them?
What he's basically trying to say is that the colours clash. Lots of bright colours next to each other, especially on a white background, is pretty painful to look at. Try making the colours a bit greyer/darker etc.
Here's some nice advice. Look at the grey shape in this image. It's a rough "underdrawing" sketch that helps when drawing heads. The line across the middle is the eye line, and the one from top to bottom is the centre of the face. By putting this in different places, it can help you draw the face from ANY angle. Note how effective it is for the human face. I've then applied the same technique to the worm, and he looks much more life-like because of it. It might help to practice this technique sometime.
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6571/help01jq1.png

TeDdywoRm
6 Jun 2008, 07:18
I use that technique sometimes... Anyway, there's one more(optional) thing with the eyes:
31471
You can use the elipse tool, but you should erase the lines on the middle. It's pretty much like one of the concept arts in Worms 3D.

Gardy Looo
6 Jun 2008, 09:51
I see you took inspiration by my thread title.
The thing that bothers me the most are the expressions, take a mirror, do an expressions, observe the eyebrows, eyelids, mouth. Implement. Exaggerate. [sp?]
Also, try not to make clothes like they were drawn on simply. They're clothes, not the worm's skin.

Kelster23
6 Jun 2008, 18:49
Eraser tool and redrawing is your friend.

tal05
7 Jun 2008, 11:48
in dont know if anyones asked before but have you ever tried hand-drawn fan-art?

Shadowmoon
7 Jun 2008, 12:05
in dont know if anyones asked before but have you ever tried hand-drawn fan-art?
Yes, i did post one once.

tal05
7 Jun 2008, 14:14
I haven't seen it so can you link it to me please? or tell me what thread?

Shadowmoon
7 Jun 2008, 17:18
I haven't seen it so can you link it to me please? or tell me what thread?
Shadowmoon's art.

AndrewTaylor
7 Jun 2008, 17:34
1: Don't use straight line tool.
I knew a guy once who'd use it exclusively. There were a few angles that were annoying in his pictures, but he'd use lots of short lines, and just used it to get around the problems of using the paintbrush tool -- which were that back then all mice were dreadful. This was before optical mice.
Of course, the ellipse tool is an Abomination unto Steve and should never be used under any circumstance, except perhaps for speech bubbles. Aside from the fact that worms' eyes have never been circular or elliptical, it limits you a lot: you can't do worms at an angle, for example, and you can't be expressive with them. Altering the shape of the eyes is important, and that means changing more than the aspect ratio.
Now we get to watch you ignore all tips and get the thread locked again!
Come on. I think it's only fair to extend some benefit-of-the-doubt here.

Kelster23
7 Jun 2008, 18:32
Hm, question to Shadowmoon: you ever tried scanning/taking pictures of you hand-drawn art, then going over it again in Flash and coloring it?

tal05
7 Jun 2008, 18:34
your hand drawn pictures are better than these pictures and i think you should consider kelster's idea.

Shadowmoon
7 Jun 2008, 19:23
1. I don't have a scanner.
2. I now have a digital camera, but it needs new batteries.

yakuza
7 Jun 2008, 19:37
I thought I told you that the thumb had to be closest finger to the body, generally. But you still drawing the hands wrong. Don't get it.

Shadowmoon
7 Jun 2008, 19:38
I thought I told you that the thumb had to be closest finger to the body, generally. But you still drawing the hands wrong. Don't get it.
I don't get what you mean either, though.

Pigbuster
7 Jun 2008, 19:50
He means that the hand should look like this:
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2394/lemmingwormcv6ja0.png

Shadowmoon
7 Jun 2008, 21:34
I went to my local shop to get some batteries, and here's another hand drawn pic...
(Sorry for bad quality)
EDIT: Image temporarily removed for size maintenance.

Melon
7 Jun 2008, 21:44
Not only is that picture out of focus, it's also absolutely MASSIVE. Try linking to it instead of attaching it as an img tag.
Otherwise, it seems you draw much better on paper. You've still got that awkward "eyes in the middle of the head but mouth to the side" thing going on though.

shadowman
7 Jun 2008, 21:47
And the tail is still completely wonky.

Shadowmoon
7 Jun 2008, 22:43
Here's the smaller version.....
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/28O7/shadpencilfv8.png

Kelster23
8 Jun 2008, 07:22
Here's the smaller version.....
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/28O7/shadpencilfv8.png
Definitely smaller; I don't see anything!

Shadowmoon
8 Jun 2008, 09:17
Definitely smaller; I don't see anything!
I don't get what you mean.

Plasma
8 Jun 2008, 10:10
I don't get what you mean.
The image won't load here, and when you go to the link directly you get imageshack's "404 - Not Found" error.
In other words, you need to put it up on imageshack again.

Paul.Power
8 Jun 2008, 11:54
I knew a guy once who'd use it exclusively. There were a few angles that were annoying in his pictures, but he'd use lots of short lines, and just used it to get around the problems of using the paintbrush tool -- which were that back then all mice were dreadful. This was before optical mice.
I use the line tool like this for most of my GIMP drawings.

Shadowmoon
8 Jun 2008, 14:59
Okay, i'll attach it, then.

super_frea
8 Jun 2008, 15:00
Good lord!
That is horribly out of focus D:

Shadowmoon
8 Jun 2008, 15:03
Good lord!
That is horribly out of focus D:
What do you mean by out of focus?

super_frea
8 Jun 2008, 15:07
It's incredibly blurry.
But from what I can make out it is quite good.
You need to try different poses though. You seem to be doing the same picture over and over.
Also with regards to the fire it needs to be long and spirally. I'm not sure how you would do that with your style but it should look more like this:
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/images/fire_meaney.gif
That's not a very good example, but it's the best I could find on Google Images
At the moment it looks more like the sword is furry.

poninja
8 Jun 2008, 15:08
Nice you seem improving the eyes and eyebrows
Edit: damn you Super_Frea 1 minute before me :mad:

thomasp
8 Jun 2008, 15:09
What do you mean by out of focus?
Wikipedia is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_%28optics%29

Shadowmoon
8 Jun 2008, 15:49
Hopefully this is less blurry....
I think it was my shadow that got in the way on that pic.

poninja
8 Jun 2008, 15:52
yes its less blurry :)

.JeT
8 Jun 2008, 16:04
That's better. I can't see the eyebrows though. It's still a good drawing. NOW, DO POSES!

Shadowmoon
8 Jun 2008, 16:09
I didn't do the eyebrows because he's looking at his flaming katana in shock.
I'll do a jumping pose, which will come later.;)

thomasp
8 Jun 2008, 16:21
Hopefully this is less blurry....
I think it was my shadow that got in the way on that pic.
No, it's because of two things:
Camera Shake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_shake)
and
Positioning the camera too close to the object for the camera to focus. Most cameras struggle to focus any closer than a couple of feet unless you enable macro mode.

Kelster23
8 Jun 2008, 17:43
I can see were his eyebrows were, so if you had them there, he still would've looked surprised.

.JeT
8 Jun 2008, 21:42
I didn't do the eyebrows because he's looking at his flaming katana in shock.
I'll do a jumping pose, which will come later.;)
He would still have eyebrows.. Duh.
I can see where you erased them. As Kelster said, if you would draw them there again, they would give a better effect of shock. The eyebrows help give worms a certain personality, and feel. You can do it without, but the eyebrows are a good extra.

Shadowmoon
9 Jun 2008, 18:05
New News!
Just completed a pic of Shadowmoon Jumping into action, and it has eyebrows! comparing the fire with my other pic, i think that the fire looks more like fire, but thats for you to say.
i'll upload it later.

shadowman
9 Jun 2008, 18:13
Well that was anticlimactic.

Shadowmoon
9 Jun 2008, 18:36
Oh, c'mon! it wasn't that long after my previous post!
see?:p
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2472/dsc00319js0.jpg
comments and constructive criticism appreciated.

tal05
9 Jun 2008, 19:58
Not much facial expression
His left hand looks like the upper section of a jellyfish
Pose isn't very effective
EDIT: Tail suddenly bends towards the end

Shadowmoon
9 Jun 2008, 20:05
I don't get what you mean by not effective.
However i'll make him more angry now.
Do you think i should just remove the hand?

Plasma
9 Jun 2008, 20:05
Okay, now the fire is pointing down. That's not an improvement.

tal05
9 Jun 2008, 20:18
I don't get what you mean by not effective.
However i'll make him more angry now.
Do you think i should just remove the hand?
Yeah make him look more angry
I don't think you should remove the hand, just create a fistl like the one holding the sword but reversed
Okay, now the fire is pointing down. That's not an improvement.
yeah but it's not important at this stage, he should just get the basics of the worm right first then move on

Shadowmoon
9 Jun 2008, 20:39
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2927/dsc00332eo9.jpg
made a few edits, also my rubber on my pencil weared down so i can't make anymore edits until i get a new rubber.....
I didn't know HOW to make him more angrier so i instead gave him an evil smile.

.JeT
9 Jun 2008, 21:09
The pose is too stiff. All i can say.

Shadowmoon
9 Jun 2008, 21:19
I'll try that pose again later and make it curve more.....
I'm currently copying in my own style, jets scared pose......

.JeT
9 Jun 2008, 21:22
Let me give you advice here. It isn't really a good idea to copy poses and work on them from another artists. It never worked for me. Instead of taking one picture and gradually increase it, rather just make thousand of random doodles. This was a "technique" that i have used recently, but it makes for good improvement.
But as i said, make a thousand drawings, don't look after other artists, try diffirent things on your worms and stuff.

Kelster23
10 Jun 2008, 04:49
Let me give you advice here. It isn't really a good idea to copy poses and work on them from another artists. It never worked for me. Instead of taking one picture and gradually increase it, rather just make thousand of random doodles. This was a "technique" that i have used recently, but it makes for good improvement.
But as i said, make a thousand drawings, don't look after other artists, try diffirent things on your worms and stuff.
Can use them as reference, but only until you get the hang of it.
For anger, *cougheyelidscough*

super_frea
10 Jun 2008, 08:28
Also I noticed how you've ignored everyone's advise from your last thread.

yakuza
10 Jun 2008, 10:16
You got the hand right this time but you made the mistake of changing the sword's direction.
Type 'PIRATE' in google images and see how a scimitar is supposed to be held.

Xinos
10 Jun 2008, 10:55
1: Don't use straight line tool.
Now we get to watch you ignore all tips and get the thread locked again!
Use flash.
Don't listen to useless tips like this.
No medium or tool is wrong.

Plasma
10 Jun 2008, 12:50
No medium or tool is wrong.
I'm sure that's great and all, but he's still better off not using the line tool and using Flash.

Akuryou13
10 Jun 2008, 13:50
I'm sure that's great and all, but he's still better off not using the line tool and using Flash.he's really not. no tool or medium isn't right for any given person. let him use whatever he's comfortable with.
the sword is bent backwards, the worm is nearly straight except for the tail and that ALMOST works, but still doesn't manage to quite do it. if the expression is supposed to be anger then the eye lids need to point inward.

Plasma
10 Jun 2008, 14:11
he's really not. no tool or medium isn't right for any given person. let him use whatever he's comfortable with.
He uses both. And he asked which one we think he's better with. I don't think it a sin against humanity to suggest that he's better with one program than the other.

Shadowmoon
10 Jun 2008, 16:20
Also I noticed how you've ignored everyone's advise from your last thread.
What do i do when i'm incredibly bored?
Practice. Behind the forum.

super_frea
10 Jun 2008, 17:58
That wasn't the advice given...

yakuza
10 Jun 2008, 18:00
What do i do when i'm incredibly bored?
Anything that isn't changing your avatar periodically!
Please.

Shadowmoon
10 Jun 2008, 18:00
No. I'm practicing with the advice given. Except the stop doing arts for 3 years, but the reason why i don't want to do that is personal......

super_frea
10 Jun 2008, 18:04
the reason why i don't want to do that is personal......
Being a stubborn testicle isn't a personal reason really. It's more to do with how you are.

Shadowmoon
10 Jun 2008, 18:08
Anything that isn't changing your avatar periodically!
Please.
look at super_frea....
Also super_frea that isn't the reason.

yakuza
10 Jun 2008, 18:14
No. I'm practicing with the advice given. Except the stop doing arts for 3 years, but the reason why i don't want to do that is personal......
No one told you to stop for 3 years, that's the last thing you should do. AFAIK, some people, myself included, told you to keep doing art offline, and post it online when you're ready.

Kelster23
10 Jun 2008, 20:41
No one told you to stop for 3 years, that's the last thing you should do. AFAIK, some people, myself included, told you to keep doing art offline, and post it online when you're ready.
And there's the possibility of that taking 3 years. :cool:

Shadowmoon
11 Jun 2008, 12:29
My sigworms gonna have a redesign......
He'll have thick, black hair, the shirt with the yellow S on it, and he'll have magic gloves that allow him to shoot energy rays.
He'll have a new weapon, The shockjaw, which can crush enemies and electrocute them. I dunno if he'll keep his flaming katana, and the lockjaw will be clipped onto the back of his fingers, meaning you'll only see it when he clenches his fist.

Akuryou13
11 Jun 2008, 14:34
My sigworms gonna have a redesign......
He'll have thick, black hair, the shirt with the yellow S on it, and he'll have magic gloves that allow him to shoot energy rays.
He'll have a new weapon, The shockjaw, which can crush enemies and electrocute them. I dunno if he'll keep his flaming katana, and the lockjaw will be clipped onto the back of his fingers, meaning you'll only see it when he clenches his fist.if he has the sparky glove bits on his hands already why bother with the "magic" gloves? just go with "it's an overcharged version of the electricity which shoots forward in a beam" or something like that. sounds less cheesy.
just my opinion on that anyway.

Shadowmoon
11 Jun 2008, 19:44
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1562/dsc00340uz7.jpg
crap, he's scared again.
Also, thats my thumb on the picture.

Squirminator2k
11 Jun 2008, 19:47
The hands look like Monster Munch, the bloodshot eyes make him look more stoned than scared. Is he having a bad drug-trip?

Shadowmoon
11 Jun 2008, 19:50
Sorry, wrong word there. He's shocked.

tal05
11 Jun 2008, 19:51
Sorry, wrong word there. He's shocked.
Mouth isn't opened wide enough, facial expression over-all isn't wacky enough, liek squirm said, he looks stoned

Shadowmoon
11 Jun 2008, 19:53
What does stoned mean?

McMaster
11 Jun 2008, 20:02
Also change your rubber. Your previous eyebrows are still shown in their previous place.
Or you could edit those pictures on your computer to add color and fix some things. ;)

Shadowmoon
11 Jun 2008, 20:06
Also change your rubber. Your previous eyebrows are still shown in their previous place.
Or you could edit those pictures on your computer to add color and fix some things. ;)
I'm getting a new one soon.
Also, i don't have a scanner, and i don't know how to edit the pictures, if i try to edit it in flash it won't let me.

tal05
11 Jun 2008, 20:18
I'm getting a new one soon.
Also, i don't have a scanner, and i don't know how to edit the pictures, if i try to edit it in flash it won't let me.
thats why you use fireworks ;)

McMaster
11 Jun 2008, 20:20
Try and get a good picture, and then edit it! :rolleyes:

tal05
11 Jun 2008, 20:21
Try and get a good picture, and then edit it! :rolleyes:
flash is wierd, i've tried editing pictures and it doesn't let you unless you convert it or something...

McMaster
11 Jun 2008, 20:23
There are plenty of programs in the web. Flash isn't the only one which exists. :rolleyes:

Shadowmoon
11 Jun 2008, 20:39
There are plenty of programs in the web. Flash isn't the only one which exists. :rolleyes:
Yes, but unfortunately the great ones cost a lot of money.
I am holding on to my money right now, so when i have enough, i will get a scanner.
Also, McMaster, i don't know how i'd edit it. Paint totally sucks if i edit, and flash just doesn't let me.

McMaster
11 Jun 2008, 20:49
Then just try and make neater pictures and get a good shoot with your camera. ;)
But due to your ban, it will take a lot for you to take my advice... :(

Plasma
11 Jun 2008, 21:35
Okay, now that the artist is temporarily banned, I foresee a lot of spam coming from people who aren't shy about saying they hate people when they do. So can I request that a Mod locks this thread until Shadowman waits out his ban status?

Muzer
11 Jun 2008, 21:48
for when you come back: Stoned means drunk or drugged up.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stoned

Metal Alex
11 Jun 2008, 21:58
for when you come back: Stoned means drunk or drugged up.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stoned
I believe it had another funny meaning ;)

thomasp
11 Jun 2008, 22:37
Okay, now that the artist is temporarily banned, I foresee a lot of spam coming from people who aren't shy about saying they hate people when they do. So can I request that a Mod locks this thread until Shadowman waits out his ban status?
Good idea.
Shadowmoon, PM me when you're back and I'll unlock this.
*Thread temporarily closed*
Now shadowmoon's unbanned...
*Thread declosified*

Shadowmoon
25 Jun 2008, 22:03
2 new computer drawings:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/WormExcited2.png
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadfireactionbig.png
Kelster in another forum said, that in the first pic, the tongue looked weird, and the second pic, she said the fire was weird.
Do you agree?

super_frea
25 Jun 2008, 22:10
Yes I agree.
The fire needs to point upwards because it always does. Unless he's caught in a particularly heavy draught. And the tongue looks like it's pointing backwards.
Also the first one is rather fat and the second is very stiff.

Shadowmoon
25 Jun 2008, 22:15
Okay. My next few pics will be of the flaming katana, because i really need to get it right.
Also, for the 2nd pic, i used new types of eyes. Does it look angry now?

.JeT
26 Jun 2008, 11:53
Yes, they give an expression of.. err, angryness.

TeDdywoRm
26 Jun 2008, 12:28
Shadowmoon, you should do something like this:
31622
And I won't help you anymore if you still try to ignore my suggestions.

yakuza
26 Jun 2008, 13:22
Pay attention to Teddy's sword. You never get them right. And I'm talking about the way it's supposed to be held.

Akuryou13
26 Jun 2008, 14:48
Pay attention to Teddy's sword. You never get them right. And I'm talking about the way it's supposed to be held.seconded. the worm looks rather stiff but that's a critique for later down the road. right now, get the shape of the sword right (make it actually pointy, first off, and then make it curve UP rather than down).
the eyes, however, look rather nice!
btw, just noticed, but in the second pic the worm is far too stiff and the sword is far too loose. use the straight, solid lines that you used on the worm to make the sword, and use the curvey, rounded and inconsistent lines you used for the sword to make the worm. that will improve the image quite a bit.
I think that both worms are actually a bit fat. the best way to remedy this is to make the area beneath the mouth noticeably skinnier than the area above the mouth. basically, just move the stomach area to the right about 5-10 pixels or so. doesn't need to be much, just enough to notice.
and one more sword critique: the handle is WAY too long for the blade. if you want to show the handle sticking out the back then you need to make the sword SIGNIFICANTLY longer.

Shadowmoon
26 Jun 2008, 15:16
Shadowmoon, you should do something like this:
31622
And I won't help you anymore if you still try to ignore my suggestions.
Okay, i'll take that criticism on board right now.
I'll make some edits to my previous pic, which will be the criticism from Teddyworm and Aku.
Although there are some parts i don't understand from Aku, i'll try and see what i can do.
Anyway, i forgot to add some pencil drawn pictures that i did to my post yesterday.
Here they are:
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4443/wormhappyaq7.jpg
Pencil drawn version of the computer one, (which i did a week ago) i then put together a computer version of this pic.
And the next pic is another pic of Shadowmoon with his new weapon, which he doesn't have anymore....
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/3599/shadwiththeshockjawhd8.jpg
I might do some more pencil drawn pics soon, but for now i'm doing computer drawn ones.
EDIT: Regarding the surprised worm picture i did on the computer, i accidentally deleted the file on flash. Nevertheless i'll start it again. (But for now i'll make some edits to the other one i posted)

Akuryou13
26 Jun 2008, 15:26
Although there are some parts i don't understand from Aku, i'll try and see what i can do.presuming you mean the bits about the line stiffness just ignore that for now. as mentioned earlier in the post that's more a critique for later down the line once you've got the basic shape down pretty well.

Shadowmoon
26 Jun 2008, 17:33
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadinactioncorrected2.png
Here's the new version.
I should make the bottom a little thinner shouldn't i?

yakuza
26 Jun 2008, 18:49
Fire should be more thich on the upper part than below. Fire tends to go up when there is """"""no force"""" applied to it.

shadowman
26 Jun 2008, 18:58
..wait
Did you say katana?
It's got to be much thinner as well as a lot longer.

super_frea
26 Jun 2008, 20:06
The fire is still off. Too blocky.
It also looks too solid. Make it spiral upwards more. Fire is very difficult thought, it's either wrong or it's right. There's no in-between unfortunately.

McMaster
26 Jun 2008, 20:06
Too blocky.
I don't find it blocky. :-/

super_frea
26 Jun 2008, 20:22
Well fire shouldn't seem like a solid object. Yes the shape of the flames can be vastly different depending on the style of drawing (for example I make the flames very curvy and long, seemingly forking out like the branches of a tree, hey in fact that's a rather good thing to base drawing fire on) but that just doesn't look right. I would advise actually looking at an image of a flame as it is very hard to mimic the flowing spiral that is fire. He's got the colour right though because in most cases, such as the burning of organic matter, for example wood (is the sword made out of wood anymore? I forget) produce the familiar red-orange glow the most people associate with fire.

Shadowmoon
26 Jun 2008, 20:59
Its steel.
so do you mean that the lines should look more long and spirally?
I'll make edits to the picture later, (i'm off the PC right now)

super_frea
26 Jun 2008, 22:12
Yeah you could try that. Just to see what it looks like.

Akuryou13
27 Jun 2008, 01:31
my conan patcher is downloading so I'm bored for 30 minutes. in a portion of that time I went and found you some fire tutorials that I feel are within your realm of skill. unfortunately, these are for photoshop and so some of the tools are going to be different, but the idea is the same.
http://shannohnflames1070.deviantart.com/art/Fire-Tutorial-84657758
http://trainerbam.deviantart.com/art/fire-tutorial-82092868
not sure which is more relevant for flash, but I'm almost certain the first is relatively easy within flash.
and if those don't work, I found a good example of some cartoony flames to mimic: http://airdin.deviantart.com/art/I-m-on-fire-44083047

Kelster23
27 Jun 2008, 19:03
Think it's possible to use those fire tutorials on GIMP?

Shadowmoon
27 Jun 2008, 21:39
I'm on my PSP, and i cannot view the tutorials because DA never loads on my PSP.
Here is my attempt on the fire.....
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Firepractice.png

Liketyspli
27 Jun 2008, 23:48
That's a lot better, fits a cartoony style nicely.

Pyramid
28 Jun 2008, 02:16
Finally
A decent cartoony flame
the bodies, eyes and flames was the parts that I most disliked on your drawings
Fixing that would be the true improvement

TeDdywoRm
28 Jun 2008, 06:40
Shadowmoon, when you're drawing a flame/fire, you should start the line at the bottom. It makes it more easier.*
*This technique sometimes doesn't work.

Shadowmoon
28 Jun 2008, 08:43
I've actually been having a look through Splapps art thread, (The Worm Graveyard) to have a look at his expressions, eyes and stuff.
I've got drawn to it though, and i'm on the 20th page.
Next pic will be an edit on the other pic, (the katana one)

Akuryou13
28 Jun 2008, 13:58
nice fire! still could use some tuning, but definitely a HUGE step forward.

Shadowmoon
28 Jun 2008, 15:25
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadfireactionversion3.png
the edited version.

.JeT
28 Jun 2008, 15:28
Pretty cool now. Hand could need some work. Also, instead of making an outline for the light red inner part, just make it light red.

Shadowmoon
28 Jun 2008, 15:40
Pretty cool now. Hand could need some work. Also, instead of making an outline for the light red inner part, just make it light red.
Okay.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadfireaction3therealversion.png
Also, what work does the hand need?
Next pics:
The next pic will probably be a picture of Shadowmoon wearing his clothes not like they are painted on. (like gardy suggested) but before trying that i wanted to get a few stuff done first.

.JeT
28 Jun 2008, 15:51
The fire looks very good now!
Ehm.. Good job. I don't know how i should explain the problems on the hand though.

Akuryou13
28 Jun 2008, 16:15
Pretty cool now. Hand could need some work. Also, instead of making an outline for the light red inner part, just make it light red.I dunno, I prefer it with the outline.
and either way, nice job with the fire there.

Gardy Looo
28 Jun 2008, 16:19
Looks pretty good at the moment. The fire looks okay too. But it seems straight. Make the flames go up a bit, unless the katana is putting a lot of energy that it shoots the flames in a straight line.

Akuryou13
28 Jun 2008, 16:26
Also, what work does the hand need?just noticed this question. I'm personally not entirely sure what it is the hand needs. I think it's mostly fine as it is, but it needs more detail, such as individual fingers and knuckles and what have you. what you've got is a decent work-around but it looks reasonably lazy.
at this point it's something that needs work, but isn't a big priority. at least to me.

Metal Alex
28 Jun 2008, 19:18
I've made my go at that same fire... Well, in my opinion, it should look more or less like this:
31634
I didn't do outlines, but you can do them anyways. Notice how I didn't put "fire spikes" below the sword.

super_frea
29 Jun 2008, 00:02
Yeah that last one was a lot better. But I agree with metal alex the fire needs to point upwards.

Akuryou13
29 Jun 2008, 01:15
just for the record: your fire is colored backwards :p

Metal Alex
29 Jun 2008, 01:20
just for the record: your fire is colored backwards :p
whoopsie...
Oh well, I was focusing in the shape.

Shadowmoon
29 Jun 2008, 19:47
New picture. Its aku conjuring up a fireball. I'm not sure if it looks like he's conjuring up a fireball, so please tell me if it doesn't look like that at all.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Akufirecorrectamundo.png
just for the record: your fire is colored backwards
Lol! i'm glad to know i'm not the only one! and yes, Metal Alex, i'll edit the picture and make it so that the fire points up.

Kelster23
29 Jun 2008, 20:52
I would've left some space in between his hands and the fire ball.

tal05
29 Jun 2008, 23:33
New picture. Its aku conjuring up a fireball. I'm not sure if it looks like he's conjuring up a fireball, so please tell me if it doesn't look like that at all.
Lol! i'm glad to know i'm not the only one! and yes, Metal Alex, i'll edit the picture and make it so that the fire points up.
The teeth look really odd

Squirminator2k
29 Jun 2008, 23:35
The teeth look odd because the lines are too thick. The body is... I don't know, adequate. The straight lines on the tunic and the bandanna look rather jarring.

tal05
29 Jun 2008, 23:41
You should stick to one line thickness through-out your art until you understand how to use different thickness'

super_frea
30 Jun 2008, 00:31
The bandana and and gi are too jagged in comparison to the shape of the body. The end of the bandana looks like it could take someone's eye out and the line down the centre of the gi should reach the bottom as they are robes in the sense that they are wrapped around the body.
The mouth and eyes should have the same line thickness. I think you should have given the mouth a thinner thickness like the eyes and the clothing.
The pose itself doesn't look right to me. Well no it's not wrong but it seems almost robotic. You could have done a lot more with the positioning of the hands and the fire. As opposed to the lemon suspended in jelly. I would work more on the poses though more than anything to make them more natural looking.

Shadowmoon
30 Jun 2008, 07:51
So this is what i'll try and do today.......
1. make the mouth with the same lines as the eyes
2. I think i have an idea on how to do the hands, and i will seperate them.
3. I'll make the bandana and robes thicker
and after i've done those improvements, i'll work on the pose.

Regulator
30 Jun 2008, 18:02
This looks awfully familiar..
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5588/akufirecorrectamundo2qj2.png

Squirminator2k
30 Jun 2008, 18:04
* shudder *

Shadowmoon
30 Jun 2008, 18:23
This looks awfully familiar..
http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5588/akufirecorrectamundo2qj2.png
What do you mean awfully familiar? i haven't copied that from anywhere, i made it myself.
i positioned the hands so that they are apart. Do the hands look right for conjuring up something? an example of what they would look like would help.
Oh, and i'm just showing an example here, before, posting the actual edits on the picture.:)

Squirminator2k
30 Jun 2008, 18:32
The hands look terrible, being honest. They look like over-fed Es.

Plasma
30 Jun 2008, 18:42
What do you mean awfully familiar? i haven't copied that from anywhere, i made it myself.
Never mind Regulator, he's just using perverted in-jokes.

Shadowmoon
30 Jun 2008, 18:47
The hands look terrible, being honest. They look like over-fed Es.
but what can i do to improve them? i searched fire conjuring hands on google, and got nothing. I don't really know what the hands would look like.

Kelster23
30 Jun 2008, 18:54
but what can i do to improve them? i searched fire conjuring hands on google, and got nothing. I don't really know what the hands would look like.
Position your hands the same way, then. Afterwhich, you modify what you saw to fit the cartoony worm hand style.

Shadowmoon
30 Jun 2008, 19:40
A little announcement.........
About an hour ago, i thought: Why don't you try drawing whole with the line tool? because to be honest, certain objects (such as the hands) i find hard to draw with the mouse. So i drew up my sigworm.
Can you comment on the body, does it look less like a robot now? and the expression.
I might go off mouse drawing and try the line tool.

Squirminator2k
30 Jun 2008, 19:50
Now that's much better. The pupils are perhaps still a little too big for my liking, and the hair's a little rigid, but you're improving. It's quite scary, in fact.
Tal05 is now the worst FanArt contributor. You've climbed up a notch or three.

Plasma
30 Jun 2008, 20:06
There's something wrong with that mouth... but I can't tell what it is...

Kelster23
30 Jun 2008, 21:09
There's something wrong with that mouth... but I can't tell what it is...
God damn, you're right.

Shadowmoon
30 Jun 2008, 21:12
Is it the teeth?

Liketyspli
30 Jun 2008, 23:01
Half his lip is in his mouth. :P

Plasma
30 Jun 2008, 23:38
Half his lip is in his mouth. :P
Yeah, that'd be it. Because the teeth are only shown at the corner of his mouth like that, it looks like he's biting his lip.
I mean, it'd be fine if it was a smaller angle, such as in that Aku pic as that makes it look like he just has half his mouth closed, but this one looks like he's biting his lip.

tal05
30 Jun 2008, 23:49
Now that's much better. The pupils are perhaps still a little too big for my liking, and the hair's a little rigid, but you're improving. It's quite scary, in fact.
Tal05 is now the worst FanArt contributor. You've climbed up a notch or three.
Sorry, what did i actually do?
I said "You should stick to one line thickness through-out your art until you understand how to use different thickness" and by the looks of his latest image he's taken the tip on board and has came out with a good peice of fan-art :-/

super_frea
30 Jun 2008, 23:54
Tal05 is now the worst FanArt contributor. You've climbed up a notch or three.
That's not true Tal05's artwork is much better than Shadowmoon's IMO. Tal05 has a much better sense of drawing style where as Shadowmoon just simply draws.

Squirminator2k
1 Jul 2008, 00:03
But Shadowmoon is willing and receptive to criticism whereas Tal is "No this is how I draw I will never change BLARG ABLOO BLOO BLOO", which means as good as he may be with shading now he won't really make many changes or try to shake up his art style.
Shadowmoon has shown true progression over the past few months. Tal has not.

Plasma
1 Jul 2008, 00:05
Nah, Tal05 is pretty good compared to the other active art threads.
If you ask me, the worst three artists currently, from worst to 3rd worst:
Pascal
McMaster
Paul
Pascal and Paul are fine, because they focus on comics rather than art, but McMaster doesn't have much of an excuse other than inexperience.

Akuryou13
1 Jul 2008, 00:18
wow! that last one was actually fairly good! far from perfect or anything, but a definite improvement over your previous stuff!
as others have said, the main problem is with the teeth making it look like he's biting his lip in half. aside from that it's pretty much alright as it is. you still need to work on an actual style but as it is it's good enough.
But Shadowmoon is willing and receptive to criticism whereas Tal is "No this is how I draw I will never change BLARG ABLOO BLOO BLOO", which means as good as he may be with shading now he won't really make many changes or try to shake up his art style.
Shadowmoon has shown true progression over the past few months. Tal has not.even considering that, McMaster beats him for worst artist.

tal05
1 Jul 2008, 00:19
But Shadowmoon is willing and receptive to criticism whereas Tal is "No this is how I draw I will never change BLARG ABLOO BLOO BLOO", which means as good as he may be with shading now he won't really make many changes or try to shake up his art style.
Shadowmoon has shown true progression over the past few months. Tal has not.
Dude, i do accept criticism. Plus that was a one off where a stupid idea was put to paper. And how could i have shown progression when there aren't many aspects of my worms figures (exluding the master chief issue which i regret) that should be changed?
Plus, you should be looking at the actual art itself and not how the artist reacts to criticism.
Edit: Shadowmoon, your last image is pretty good and it does seem like you should lay off the mouse drawings for a while because this is much better.

Kelster23
1 Jul 2008, 05:52
What are you talking about Plasma, Paul is the best artist here! :P

Shadowmoon
1 Jul 2008, 16:29
Plus, you should be looking at the actual art itself and not how the artist reacts to criticism.
Actually, you should judge how they look at criticism too. Not much people will help someone who etiher ignores criticism and carrys on drawing how they always do, or just simply asking: Why? every time someone says your art is bad. A good example for someone who does that is McMaster.
Anyway, i was pretty surprised myself when i got all those good comments! I'm not sure what you mean by "biting his lip", but i'll try and see what i can do now, and make some edits on the picture itself.

Muzer
1 Jul 2008, 17:13
He looks like the right of his lip (his right, ie the left side of the picture) is actually inside his mouth and he's biting it.

Shadowmoon
1 Jul 2008, 18:23
He looks like the right of his lip (his right, ie the left side of the picture) is actually inside his mouth and he's biting it.
I think i get what you mean now.
Does this fix it?
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadowmoonfixed.png

Shadowmoon
1 Jul 2008, 18:35
No ...
Image Quoting makes babies cry.
I get what you mean now. What you mean is make the lip a little shorter, and only letting a little of his lip showing and not actually half.
EDIT 2: The pic:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadowmoonfixedagain.png
Also, if i make an edit to the picture, i can produce this expression.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadowmoonangry.png

tal05
1 Jul 2008, 19:10
Image Quoting makes babies cry.
I get what you mean now. What you mean is make the lip a little shorter, and only letting a little of his lip showing and not actually half.
Also, if i make an edit to the picture, i can produce this expression.
Much better much, very nice :D
nice expression aswell...
reminds me of my drawings expression which i "borrowed" of slicks impression

Kelster23
1 Jul 2008, 19:18
Thar you go.

Shadowmoon
1 Jul 2008, 21:41
Much better much, very nice :D
nice expression aswell...
reminds me of my drawings expression which i "borrowed" of slicks impression
Thats because it is the expression. I was editing the lip, and i remembered your picture.....

Squirminator2k
1 Jul 2008, 21:47
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Shadowmoonangry.png
"Give me a kiss, moi moi moi moi."

tal05
1 Jul 2008, 22:26
Thats because it is the expression. I was editing the lip, and i remembered your picture.....
Yeah man, nothing wrong with that, plus it looks good :)

Akuryou13
2 Jul 2008, 04:01
"Give me a kiss, moi moi moi moi."I was thinking that :p
there's something about that expression that seems off. can't decide what would make it feel better to me, but SOMETHING seems off...I'll let ya know if I figure out what it is :p

Shadowmoon
2 Jul 2008, 14:16
Something seems off to me too, but i don't know either.:p
But if i find whats wrong, i'll edit it.
Anyway, this was a picture i did for a FAOTM competition on yauhui's forum. Its the Worm bot 500 (how original:p) and Shadowmoon fighting.
I followed Metal Alex's advice about the fire, i've also decided the katana, will no longer be a katana, it will be known as the flaming sword.
Link to pic because its too big to show here (http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormbot3000VSshadowmoon.png)
It took me almost 2 hours.

Akuryou13
2 Jul 2008, 16:55
HAHA! that worm-bot is hilariously generic/horrible :p
not bad in general. the worms feel stiff, though. try working with some curves. feel free to continue to use the line tool, but look at oft's art to see how he implies curves using only straight lines.

Shadowmoon
2 Jul 2008, 18:56
HAHA! that worm-bot is hilariously generic/horrible
I might add something to make it look more robotic, but might keep it simple because there aren't much artists that will threaten my chance of winning. Except Teddyworm and Kelster23.
feel free to continue to use the line tool, but look at oft's art
I will.
I don't want to make the head look too..... bulb shaped, though.

Metal Alex
2 Jul 2008, 19:10
I love how the sword looks like an extension from the middle finger.

Shadowmoon
2 Jul 2008, 19:15
I love how the sword looks like an extension from the middle finger.
Fixed.
Click me please (http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/FAOTMentyr.png)
I made a little bit of edits to the picture.

super_frea
2 Jul 2008, 19:16
Now it looks like you have a claw.
And that is the only edit i can see.

Shadowmoon
2 Jul 2008, 19:21
Now it looks like you have a claw.
And that is the only edit i can see.
I curved some lines a teeny bit.
Anyway:
Fixed! (http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/FAOTMentryagain.png)

Kelster23
2 Jul 2008, 20:20
You know I`m too lazy to enter any competitions.

Shadowmoon
2 Jul 2008, 20:20
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Worm.png
Another attempt to try to improve my worm shapes.

Plasma
2 Jul 2008, 21:41
That one's better again, but the spike on the forehead is off-putting.

Liketyspli
2 Jul 2008, 22:29
What I think you should do;
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/Bananenworst/Whatithinkyoushoulddo.png
...Well not really, actually I think you should do Worms2-style worms (the different tail), but that's your choice.

Akuryou13
3 Jul 2008, 02:40
I vote for an in-between of what likety said. maybe leave the back head spike thing but lessen the front if not remove it entirely. the stomach should also be more curved. leave the point on the bottom if you want, but move it inward so as to have more of a curve to the stomach.
I think that should make it look a bit better. could be wrong.

Shadowmoon
3 Jul 2008, 10:01
I will do something like likety said.
Also, i may do requests soon.

shadowman
3 Jul 2008, 18:42
Insert obligatory before plasma request here.
I actually agree with Likety, but the complete roundness leaves something to be desired.

Plasma
3 Jul 2008, 19:33
Insert obligatory before plasma request here.
I thought I already did request...

Shadowmoon
4 Jul 2008, 17:49
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormbodypractice.png
New pic in a more curved style. (Btw, my worms won't be that size)
Does it look weird?

tal05
4 Jul 2008, 18:03
New pic in a more curved style. (Btw, my worms won't be that size)
Does it look weird?
Proportion is wrong, body is too big compared to the skull of the worm.

Kelster23
4 Jul 2008, 19:28
Shorten what would be the neck area then it would be better.

Akuryou13
5 Jul 2008, 03:32
I like it as-is.
pick however you like it. people complained about my tails all the time but screw em. I like em how they are. you decide the same and we'll suggest how to help within that shape.

Pigbuster
5 Jul 2008, 04:40
Proportion is wrong, body is too big compared to the skull of the worm.
Ehhh. It's a cartoon. Proportion is probably the least important aspect to worry about.
As long as it looks good, it's okay, and I think it looks good.

Plasma
5 Jul 2008, 10:49
Shorten what would be the neck area then it would be better.
Agreed, the worm is too tall.
pick however you like it. people complained about my tails all the time
I think you mean 'complain'. They still suck.

tal05
5 Jul 2008, 11:46
Ehhh. It's a cartoon. Proportion is probably the least important aspect to worry about.
As long as it looks good, it's okay, and I think it looks good.
Hardly... that looks slightly odd and thats due to proportion.

Shadowmoon
5 Jul 2008, 13:44
I don't know what kelster means by shorten the neck area.

Akuryou13
5 Jul 2008, 13:54
Agreed, the worm is too tall.
I think you mean 'complain'. They still suck.exactly. see, shadowmoon? if plasma's opinion can still be wrong about MY art don't expect him to be right about yours :p
Hardly... that looks slightly odd and thats due to proportion. odd isn't a problem. cartoons typically look odd, but people just accept their style even if it DOES suck. in this case, the worms have small heads. that's not that big a deal. you can't legally complain about that in regards to shadowmoon unless you complain about paul's art :p
I don't know what kelster means by shorten the neck area.she means the head is too small, which is what I was talking about in the rest of this post, so just ignore her :p

Kelster23
6 Jul 2008, 07:54
exactly. see, shadowmoon? if plasma's opinion can still be wrong about MY art don't expect him to be right about yours :p
odd isn't a problem. cartoons typically look odd, but people just accept their style even if it DOES suck. in this case, the worms have small heads. that's not that big a deal. you can't legally complain about that in regards to shadowmoon unless you complain about paul's art :p
she means the head is too small, which is what I was talking about in the rest of this post, so just ignore her :p
No no, the head is fine. The neck is just a little long for my liking.

Shadowmoon
6 Jul 2008, 15:19
I'll recreate it again, then, but make it smaller.

Akuryou13
6 Jul 2008, 15:43
I'll recreate it again, then, but make it smaller.I see what's kelster's saying, now. try not to make it TOO short.
also, kester, I hate your name now. I keep wanting to type Kelsier (the main character in the book I just finished)

Pigbuster
6 Jul 2008, 18:32
Hardly... that looks slightly odd and thats due to proportion.
Bah. It looks fine to me.
This may be because I was drawing the tallest worms ever drawn by human hands a while ago. :p

tal05
6 Jul 2008, 19:02
I edited it slightly to get tid of a bit of height and width.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/9493/wallsballsrb2.png
Needs a bit more shortened from the neck i think.

AndrewTaylor
6 Jul 2008, 19:06
I don't think it's too tall so much as the proportion is off -- I'd move the mouth down rather than changing the height.
(Also put some eyes on.)

Shadowmoon
6 Jul 2008, 19:11
I don't think it's too tall so much as the proportion is off -- I'd move the mouth down rather than changing the height.
(Also put some eyes on.)
I didn't bother because it was only for the shape.
I'll put some eyes on in the next pic.

tal05
6 Jul 2008, 19:14
I don't think it's too tall so much as the proportion is off -- I'd move the mouth down rather than changing the height.
(Also put some eyes on.)
Actually, that would work
Good job A.T

Metal Alex
6 Jul 2008, 20:48
I see what's kelster's saying, now. try not to make it TOO short.
also, kester, I hate your name now. I keep wanting to type Kelsier (the main character in the book I just finished)
Yeah, you even proved that you need to put more effort on that.
I HAD to write this. I didn't even want to. :(

shadowman
7 Jul 2008, 02:20
It looks like it's choking on something.
Though it's probably enjoying it.

Shadowmoon
7 Jul 2008, 17:27
I've got a question about Shading.
Is there a special tool to do it with? how would you know where to add Shading?
In short: I get stuck on how to do it.

tal05
7 Jul 2008, 17:31
I've got a question about Shading.
Is there a special tool to do it with? how would you know where to add Shading?
In short: I get stuck on how to do it.
Q, Is there a special tool to do it with?
A, There is a burn tool on Fireworks and Photoshop but if your using paint you'll just have to use the line/curve tool and the paint bucket.
Q, how would you know where to add Shading?
A, Well, first you have to locate the source of light in the picture, so if the light source is coming from the left, the left hand side of the worm should be lighter and get darker gradually towards the right hand side.

Akuryou13
7 Jul 2008, 17:31
I've got a question about Shading.
Is there a special tool to do it with? how would you know where to add Shading?
In short: I get stuck on how to do it.the most common tool for shading is Burn, but it only works with certain types of coloring. in general, I think the people here tend to just draw a shape along one side of the worm that's a darker color than the rest.
edit: http://yondaime-sama.deviantart.com/art/Cell-Shade-Coloring-Tutorial-43032432
there's a basic shading tutorial. I didn't actually read it but it seems fairly basic to do. if that doesn't work for ya, search for coloring tutorials in flash on dA. lots of the tutorials on dA are crap but there are plenty that are actually quite good.

Kelster23
7 Jul 2008, 22:35
It's a skill worth learning, that comes through observation. (Does that make sense?)

Pigbuster
7 Jul 2008, 22:38
A, There is a burn tool on Fireworks and Photoshop but if your using paint you'll just have to use the line/curve tool and the paint bucket.
GHGHGHHG NO BURN TOOL. :mad:
Burning actually modifies the color layer, so if you realize after a number of saves and edits that you made a major mistake in the universal lighting, OH NO, you have to re-shade AND re-color everything. You cannot properly remove any of the shaded area, either.
I could go on about how the burn tool should never be used for a major job like shading. Burn/dodge are for touching up.
A semitransparent layer above the color is the best way to go, SO SAYS PIGBUSTER.

Kelster23
7 Jul 2008, 22:41
GHGHGHHG NO BURN TOOL. :mad:
Burning actually modifies the color layer, so if you realize after a number of saves and edits that you made a mistake in the shading direction, OH NO, you have to recolor everything. You also cannot actually remove any of the burned area, either.
I could go on about how the burn tool should never be used for a major job like shading. It's for touching up.
A semitransparent layer above the color is the best way to go, SO SAYS PIGBUSTER.
Well not everything, just that one part.

super_frea
7 Jul 2008, 22:42
If you just look at anything and look how the shadows form in relation to the object, that way when you create your own characters and stuff you kind of can work out where the shading should go.

Akuryou13
8 Jul 2008, 03:57
GHGHGHHG NO BURN TOOL. :mad:
Burning actually modifies the color layer, so if you realize after a number of saves and edits that you made a major mistake in the universal lighting, OH NO, you have to re-shade AND re-color everything. You cannot properly remove any of the shaded area, either.
I could go on about how the burn tool should never be used for a major job like shading. Burn/dodge are for touching up.
A semitransparent layer above the color is the best way to go, SO SAYS PIGBUSTER.ew! that would majorly suck! fireworks allows you to do the burning on a seperate layer. I assumed flash would've been similar.

Shadowmoon
16 Jul 2008, 18:35
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Newwormstyle.png
My new style. Enjoy.

tal05
16 Jul 2008, 18:40
My new style. Enjoy.
Yes, much better but still needs a bit of improvement as some of the lines join unevenly and create a point like on the right cheek or the right hand side of the head but that is not a major problem.
Good job

poninja
16 Jul 2008, 18:46
reminds me of teddyworm

super_frea
16 Jul 2008, 18:58
I would advise you to add eyes and a mouth otherwise it's more difficult tell if it's better or not D:

Plasma
16 Jul 2008, 19:01
The tail is much too flat though.

Shadowmoon
16 Jul 2008, 19:27
Yes, much better but still needs a bit of improvement as some of the lines join unevenly and create a point like on the right cheek or the right hand side of the head but that is not a major problem.
Good job
Thanks, and yeah, i'll do it now.:)
I would advise you to add eyes and a mouth otherwise it's more difficult tell if it's better or not D:
Okay, i'll add some now.
The tail is much too flat though.
Hmmmm.......
because only you have said that, i am unsure. I'll do it, but if someone tells me your wrong i'll kill you.:cool:
EDIT: Pic edited:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormsad.png
That will be my eye type style. Unless i'm doing angry eyes, those will be the eyes often.

poninja
16 Jul 2008, 19:59
as Basti@n say the pupils are weird

super_frea
16 Jul 2008, 20:06
Yeah they look like buttons.

Shadowmoon
16 Jul 2008, 20:17
Okay.
Basti@n also said the mouth looked wrong. Who agrees?

.JeT
16 Jul 2008, 20:37
I think it looks okay, but it kind of implies he has fat cheeks. (The sides)

Shadowmoon
16 Jul 2008, 20:41
So what is better? the old style or new one.
I'll make the cheeks shorter.

poninja
16 Jul 2008, 21:10
kinda prefer the old

super_frea
16 Jul 2008, 23:43
Yeah I agree.

Kelster23
17 Jul 2008, 00:30
Good to see you're experimenting with different styles.

Akuryou13
17 Jul 2008, 00:52
The tail is much too flat though.ignore him :p
personally, I think this style is fine. the puffy cheeks look a little funny, but if that's not what you'd intended just lessen the one on the right and lower the mouth to make the "cheek" on the left look more like a lip. aside from that I don't see any problems myself.
the pointy line thing that was mentioned is a minor issue, but it's not even something I would've commented on save for the other person already doing so.

Shadowmoon
17 Jul 2008, 18:52
My old style, edited to become my style. Enjoy.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormshockedyeah.png
Also, how do you know where does the shading go? i know Tal said use a light source, but i don't know what he means.

Kelster23
17 Jul 2008, 21:50
My old style, edited to become my style. Enjoy.
[IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Wormshockedyeah.png[IMG]
Also, how do you know where does the shading go? i know Tal said use a light source, but i don't know what he means.
Light source would be like the sun, a candle, fire, or a lamp. Anything that gives off light.

Shadowmoon
17 Jul 2008, 21:53
So that is the only way i can find out. Isn't their a tool to find out where to shade?

Kelster23
17 Jul 2008, 21:56
There's a tool that can darken color for you, but seeing how your drawing isn't an actual 3-D model, there is no tool to tell you where to shade. You think shading is hard? Try fabric folds in clothing. :mad:

shadowman
17 Jul 2008, 23:32
He's licking the inside of his cheek.

Shadowmoon
18 Jul 2008, 07:38
He's licking the inside of his cheek.
What do you propose it looks like then?
please edit the pic and correct the tongue.

super_frea
18 Jul 2008, 12:04
*Crappily edits in Paint*
There you go...
It's quite a simple edit really.
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6259/wormshockedyeahxp1.png

McMaster
18 Jul 2008, 12:43
So that is the only way i can find out. Isn't their a tool to find out where to shade?
I don't know if there's a tool for shading, but you can do it yourself! Can't you figure out how to shade?
Look for the shading in Splapp's tutorial. That's where I learnt to shade.
Use that for your first shading pictures, and then try to make shading like .JeT's example in my thread.

Akuryou13
18 Jul 2008, 14:22
So that is the only way i can find out. Isn't their a tool to find out where to shade?there can't be and doesn't need to be a tool to shade something. light comes in from one side, darkness would be on the other. you're jsut using the simplistic comic shading, so it's literally just a bar of one color on one side and another on the other side. you can't possibly get any simpler than that. even if they had classes for that, this style of shading would only be mentioned for at most 2 minutes.

Pigbuster
18 Jul 2008, 14:50
So that is the only way i can find out. Isn't their a tool to find out where to shade?
Stay away from shading until you have a decent knowledge of how 3D objects work in a 2D space. Basically, if you want your shading to be half decent, you have to draw the worm like it has actual depth. Rather than drawing it as a flat object, you have to draw the worm like it's 3-dimensional.
Practice shading on cubes and spheres and cylinders and stuff like that. Even with cel-shading it's not a bad idea to know how it works.
You could do a planar analysis of a worm after a while, but not even I've done that. To be honest, I just fake it. :p
If you don't get what I just said, I suppose I could reiterate...

Akuryou13
18 Jul 2008, 15:17
go to the store and buy some play-do for like a dollar. mold that playdo into a tube. bend the tube and set it standing up like it's a worm standing with it's tail. take a big flashlight (torch if you're not american with our stupid words for stuff), shine it next to the worm at whatever angle you like. the parts with a ton of light should be where you put the bar of lighter color for your shading. the opposite side should be where the darker shading will be. the shading is just a bar that follows the edge.

Shadowmoon
18 Jul 2008, 15:42
I don't know if there's a tool for shading, but you can do it yourself! Can't you figure out how to shade?
Look for the shading in Splapp's tutorial. That's where I learnt to shade.
Use that for your first shading pictures, and then try to make shading like .JeT's example in my thread.
Look, i want to know where to shade, not just on a worm.
I'll miss shading out for now.

Kelster23
18 Jul 2008, 18:47
Look, i want to know where to shade, not just on a worm.
I'll miss shading out for now.
Where shadows go all depend on the angle (and perhaps strength) of your light.

yakuza
18 Jul 2008, 18:52
Try making two white colored circles for the pupils. One on the top slightly to the left/right, and another one smaller below slightly to the opposite side, covering most of the black pupil area. Just an idea, they might look good.

McMaster
18 Jul 2008, 18:54
Look, i want to know where to shade, not just on a worm.
I'll miss shading out for now.
Then take advice from the two posts above that one I'm quoting right now that I'm writing to you.

Shadowmoon
21 Jul 2008, 08:03
Little announcement to make.....
no art will be posted for a while. There might even be no art until next year! I'm going to practice, and when i go to my local library, i'll get a good how to draw cartoons book. I've finally realised the best thing i can do, is practice for a while.
Or a Long While.

Akuryou13
21 Jul 2008, 13:59
I MAJORLY suggest you look up ACTION! Cartooning. it's an amazing guide that doesn't try to stick you to a single style or technique and explains WHY drawing things differently makes the result the way it does. very, ridiculously helpful.

Shadowmoon
21 Jul 2008, 14:29
I MAJORLY suggest you look up ACTION! Cartooning. it's an amazing guide that doesn't try to stick you to a single style or technique and explains WHY drawing things differently makes the result the way it does. very, ridiculously helpful.
Ermmmmm... that name sounds familiar...... could i have seen that book before?
i'll check for it next time i go.
EDIT: Searched on google, so i now know what the cover looks like.

McMaster
21 Jul 2008, 17:26
What is the name of that book? Action?

Plasma
21 Jul 2008, 17:51
What is the name of that book? Action?
"ACTION! Cartooning"

McMaster
21 Jul 2008, 18:11
"ACTION! Cartooning"
Thx. ;););)

Shadowmoon
4 Aug 2008, 16:28
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Newstyleworm.png
Yeah, another new style. I haven't had the chance to look up that book, btw.
For some reason, i really like this style.

Squirminator2k
4 Aug 2008, 16:34
Yes. For some reason. No reason I can work out, of course, because it's ruddy awful, but hey, what do I know?
And, because you won't accept my criticism without some kind of reasoning, here it is: It's lifeless and it looks like you drew this incredibly quickly in MSPaint.

Shadowmoon
4 Aug 2008, 16:44
Noooo! i forgot to add the shading!
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Shad13_album/Newstyleworm-1.png
Please tell me if the shading is better than my first attempt.
Squirminator: Just saw your post. Kay i'll change it back to my old style i've mostly done in this thread.
EDIT: Shall i stay with the old style? i'm trying to find a new style but i'm not ready yet i don't think.

McMaster
4 Aug 2008, 17:00
I think you're going backwards. Some older pictures of you are better.

Shadowmoon
4 Aug 2008, 17:05
I think you're going backwards. Some older pictures of you are better.
Fair enough.
I'll stick with my old style then.

Kelster23
5 Aug 2008, 06:49
I commented on this in Piezone.

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