About unlocking weapons [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Xap
20 Nov 2007, 02:55
For a long time, the only Worms Armageddon I've played was on the N64. Recently, I bought WA for the pc and was delighted at all sorts of options. However, I am confused about one thing at the moment: In WA64, when I unlocked a weapon by completing a mission or deathmatch, it was given to my team exclusively. However, in WApc, upon completing the missions, the weapons just pop up in the weapons options, and you can turn them on/off and whatnot. How come the weapons are available to all teams? What if I just want my team to have the weapons? There doesn't seem to be a point in having any other teams go through missions once another team already has unlocked all the weapons. Is there a way to get my team, only, to get the weapons that they unlock? Also, do deathmatches give you weapons anymore? Or are they more useless than in the N64 version?

CyberShadow
20 Nov 2007, 03:46
Well, as W:A for the PC was created with online play in mind as well, I believe that allowing some players to have weapons which other players don't have access to might be considered as unfair. That's also considering that it's very easy to edit the team file on the PC to unlock all unlockables (several programs have been written just for this purpose, and this feature is also available in most team editors (http://worms2d.info/Software#Team_editors) as well).

Dario
20 Nov 2007, 11:39
The only point of WA missions, trainings and deathmatches is solo entretaining.
Good information about WA in general: http://worms2d.info
A Good page of mission-like challenges for playing alone if you are tired of online gaming: http://www.thechallengebase.com (here you can play "missions" made by other players and then report your results so that everybody else can see them, quite cool site!)

franpa
20 Nov 2007, 14:21
Well, as W:A for the PC was created with online play in mind as well, I believe that allowing some players to have weapons which other players don't have access to might be considered as unfair. That's also considering that it's very easy to edit the team file on the PC to unlock all unlockables (several programs have been written just for this purpose, and this feature is also available in most team editors (http://worms2d.info/Software#Team_editors) as well).
couldn't offline play be changed to work like Xap suggested while retaining the old style for online play? i can easily see how beneficial it could be to tho's with brothers/sisters who don't like cheating ^^ it would give everyone something to strive for instead of just using the one team to unlock everything for everyone... they each have there own "profile/team" so to say... online play would be affected by the team that has unlocked the most stuff of course.

CyberShadow
20 Nov 2007, 15:36
It would be a breaking change with potentially people complaining...
It could get added like some kind of option somewhere, maybe along "team super weapons".

bonz
20 Nov 2007, 16:35
It could get added like some kind of option somewhere, maybe along "team super weapons".
Yay!
I always felt that the "points for weapons" Wormpot mode, which is technically an expanded teamweapon mode, could be expanded even further.

Dario
20 Nov 2007, 18:06
Having an option like that wormpot mode would be really cool as long as the limit of how many weapons a team can "buy" is well set. It could be a really really nice way of adding some extra personalization to online matches, but it will require a lot of work and constant adjustments if we want it to be enjoyable.
In case you are planning to do it, let me suggest that the host should be able to choose how much "money" each team has to buy the weapons. Then you could make a tournament saying something like: "in this tournament you can spend a maximum of 200 worm$ on your weapon stock". With the money limit set each player could go on editing his team and then start the match :D.
Soooo exiting!!, planning all the strategy... omg.

Melon
20 Nov 2007, 18:23
I approve of adding Points for Weapons mode into WA.
The only problem I can forsee is that it would take a while before a match for everyone to make their decisions with a weapon. Maybe you could have it so there were a few pre-defined "levels" to the number of points, and the weapons could then be bought before the matches.
With WWP, it was always 100 points, and these were saved with the team. Maybe you could have the option for 100, 200 or 300 points, and again have these saved in the team.
This is just for speed's sake. I'm aware that some people would love a bit more customization with this, and maybe choosing the weapons before the match is one of the good points about it.
OK hang on, I've changed my mind. How about people are allowed to choose before each round/match, but they only have limited time to do so, once the match has started. Maybe they can look at the map first and then buy the weapons in-game before the round actually begins, possibly even being allowed to buy weapons DURING the game with unspent points by highlighting a slot in the weapon panel and pressing a key or something? Or just by opening the panel when it's not their turn and clicking on a slot ot buy it? Unspent points are carried over to the next round. The possibilities are endless.
Just throwing ideas out here. Discuss.

Dario
20 Nov 2007, 20:22
Hi melon :P.
I totally agree with having saved stocks for different ammount of points.
About taking a look at the map and then choosing the weapons, well you should still be able to do that if you can edit your stock in the same way you can edit your worms names and special weapon while you are in the menu before the match starts.
But being able to buy new weapons during a round doesn't sound good to me, because that would (imho) detract from the tactical aspect of choosing your weapons carefully before the round; just buy what you need when you need it.

yakuza
20 Nov 2007, 20:30
I always thought the points for weapon mode should of been enhanced by a single player death match mode in which you play against CPU forces (which improve in skill and numbers match after match) and receive coins for every match won to buy weapons for the next rounds and so on.

KRD
20 Nov 2007, 20:34
I've never been a fan of the PfW mode, but I know quite a few people who liked it a lot over on WWP, so I won't go on a crusade against it... yet. :p
Just please, no time limits in the pre-game lobby. Wouldn't fit the spirit of the game in my opinion. Neither would raising the maximum amount of points without adjusting the cost of some utilities and weapons first, I believe. Could very quickly unbalance things, make some combinations way too powerful.

yakuza
20 Nov 2007, 20:43
I've never been a fan of the PfW mode, but I know quite a few people who liked it a lot over on WWP, so I won't go on a crusade against it... yet. :p
Just please, no time limits in the pre-game lobby. Wouldn't fit the spirit of the game in my opinion. Neither would raising the maximum amount of points without adjusting the cost of some utilities and weapons first, I believe. Could very quickly unbalance things, make some combinations way too powerful.
In WWP PfW tournaments getting Invisibility, 6 girders, infinite shotguns and bazookas and a couple of ropes/teleports was the way to go.

Shadowmoon
20 Nov 2007, 20:49
If you want your team to have their own set weapons, then try www.blamethepixel.com i think there is a team editor there. I am not saying that is possible but i am pretty sure i saw one.

Melon
20 Nov 2007, 20:51
Hi melon :P.
But being able to buy new weapons during a round doesn't sound good to me, because that would (imho) detract from the tactical aspect of choosing your weapons carefully before the round; just buy what you need when you need it.
Hi Dario :P.
If this were an option, I personally wouldn't use it for the same reasons, although it could be entertaining spread across multiple rounds where the points don't replenish between rounds. Do you buy an HHG to kill a worm by flinging him out of the map with it, or risk saving your points for more weapons later on?
Just please, no time limits in the pre-game lobby. Wouldn't fit the spirit of the game in my opinion. Neither would raising the maximum amount of points without adjusting the cost of some utilities and weapons first, I believe. Could very quickly unbalance things, make some combinations way too powerful.
I wasn't thinking time limit in the pre-game lobby as much as I was being able to choose the weapons AFTER the match has begun, maybe not during the game, but before anyone takes a turn. But you might as well do it in the lobby. In fact, it makes more sense to do that now I think about it, I was imagining the possibility of being able to change the weapons after each round this way.

Run
21 Nov 2007, 09:12
If you want your team to have their own set weapons, then try www.blamethepixel.com i think there is a team editor there. I am not saying that is possible but i am pretty sure i saw one.
yeah well it's not so you didn't

bonz
21 Nov 2007, 10:51
The Fiddler is able to edit single teams'/single worms' weapon sets.
Anyway, I think the PfW mode from WWP has been tested quite some time and is quite balanced out.
Simply increasing the money count would be a bad thing.
Also, you can just easily throw in superweapons, because if they were super-expensive, they would drastically reduce your other weapons, and if they were cheaper, it would practically make the PfW mode useless, as it would be a slightly varied standard scheme only then.
In both cases the PfW would be unbalanced.
My idea:
Combining PfW mode with the team weapon option.
You can choose your team weapon with the classic ammo count and delay and can spend your (slightly reduced) money on the other weapons.
Maybe replacing the classic team weapons with a few superweapons could be feasible.

Shadowmoon
21 Nov 2007, 17:27
yeah well it's not so you didn't
Yeah well there was, but its called the fiddler.

robowurmz
22 Nov 2007, 09:45
Yeah well there was, but its called the fiddler.
Which was said directly above your post.:rolleyes:
I really hope Fiddler Integration is in the next beta. I loved good ol' fiddler. My nail strike...the sheep-to-lots-of-fire-bomb...the recreation of the homing cluster bomb...lots of other hilarious and overpowered weapons...oh, the good times.
Such a pity it only works on 3.0.0.0, because we don't get the bugfixes and new features. Some of my weapons would do really well on a 30,000 x 30,000 map.
So, as far as I can see it, the only way to just have your team have weapons (In W:A) is if DC and CyberShadow implement PfW mode, integrate the fiddler, or you go back to version 3.0.0.0 and use the Fiddler 4.1. There's tutorials everywhere.

bonz
22 Nov 2007, 13:57
Which was said directly above your post.:rolleyes:
Yup.
But it seems that he overlooks many things.
E.g. he missed the R in his nickname.
The R that should be between the two Os. :D
Such a pity it only works on 3.0.0.0, because we don't get the bugfixes and new features. Some of my weapons would do really well on a 30,000 x 30,000 map.
So true.
Seems I need to stay up late at night more and have a talk with Deadcode.

Melon
22 Nov 2007, 14:08
I wonder if it would be possible to mix PfW mode with fiddler support, allowing people to spend points on Fiddler weapons added to the scheme.
On second thoughts, that might not work very well. Never mind.

bonz
22 Nov 2007, 14:16
On second thoughts, that might not work very well. Never mind.
Nope, because I'd spend all my money on my poisonous homing cluster donkey strike.

Run
22 Nov 2007, 21:24
Yup.
But it seems that he overlooks many things.
E.g. he missed the R in his nickname.
The R that should be between the two Os. :D
i already made that joke
tsk tsk pay attention

bonz
23 Nov 2007, 09:08
Another idea about team weapons:
When Fiddler scheme support gets added sometime, what about if you can use one custom weapon as a team weapon, like it is possible in W4M?
It would need certain restrictions, of course, to balance out power, homing, cluster and strike settings.
The way it was done in W4M was quite good in my opinion.

Shadowmoon
23 Nov 2007, 19:54
Yup.
But it seems that he overlooks many things.
E.g. he missed the R in his nickname.
The R that should be between the two Os. :D
So true.
Seems I need to stay up late at night more and have a talk with Deadcode.
I am shadowmoon Bonz.

Plasma
23 Nov 2007, 20:01
I am shadowmoon Bonz.
The 10-letter-limit on nicknames got you too? Okay, I'll call you by that full nickname so.

Xap
3 Dec 2007, 21:13
Good information about WA in general: http://worms2d.info
Thanks! I've been using "SchemeEddy" to get my weapons.

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