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matteobin
1 Mar 2011, 12:10
Hi guys of Team17... I have a small question about Worms Reloaded for Macintosh.
The WormNET for the Mac version will be compatible with Windows one? I mean... will the Windows users able to play with the Mac OS X users?

BillT17
1 Mar 2011, 12:22
As it stands right now, the Mac version will not be able to play against the PC version.

matteobin
1 Mar 2011, 12:27
Oh... no! What a shame... :(
But why men? Is it possible to do that?

bonz
1 Mar 2011, 13:30
As it stands right now, the Mac version will not be able to play against the PC version.
Why so?
Isn't it actually easier to achieve OS cross-compatibility with Steam Play and Steamworks?

BillT17
2 Mar 2011, 10:15
I honestly don't know the reasons, I remember hearing something about because it wasn't planned from the start of WR PC development we can't have the same product code for the game which makes life complicated for doing updates on both games at exactly the same time.

matteobin
2 Mar 2011, 11:45
I got it. But I think that a lot of players won't like this. Anyway Worms Reloaded will be always a great game.

Thurbo
2 Mar 2011, 16:52
That really is a shame. I hoped for a few more players online :(

jorwex
20 Mar 2011, 06:59
I was really holding out on this feature. A bunch of my old friends and I played Worms Armageddon years ago and they have switched to Mac.
Is this a definite answer? Maybe we can start a petition... :)

MtlAngelus
22 Mar 2011, 03:53
I honestly don't know the reasons, I remember hearing something about because it wasn't planned from the start of WR PC development we can't have the same product code for the game which makes life complicated for doing updates on both games at exactly the same time.
Wow.
So instead of tackling the challenge to provide a feature that most of the people looking forward to this version of the game expect, y'all just decided to not even bother with it and release two separate versions? No wonder your games are on a steep decline.
How much lazier can you [Team17] get? Getting the same code to run on both OS'S is not impossible, loads of other devs manage it all the time. Why is it that you guys can't? Why even bother releasing the game on MacOS? If the game will be a straight port, and keeps the same name, then you can bet your asses that people are going to take that feature for granted, and you're going to end up with a lot of complaints by people who were expecting to be able to play with their pc-using friends. Are you going to change the title of the game, or at least bother to make it explicitly clear in your game advertising/product page that the feature is not included?

BillT17
22 Mar 2011, 10:02
It will be clear that you can't play PC against Mac. On Steam when we did our research there were only 8 Mac games that could play online vs PC versions so I'm not sure that people will be demanding it especially as it will be clear on the Steam page. :)
The game will share steamworks features such as cloud support for saves, leaderboards and achivements.

Lex
22 Mar 2011, 14:57
So Team17 excuses itself because "only" 8 network-playable Mac games on Steam which also have PC versions have network compatibility with their PC counterparts. That's ridiculous.
[network playable] × [Mac compatible] × [PC compatible] × [Steam-based] = N (or, number of games investigated)
I'm guessing N is close to 8.

MrBunsy
22 Mar 2011, 15:36
So Team17 excuses itself because "only" 8 network-playable Mac games on Steam which also have PC versions have network compatibility with their PC counterparts. That's ridiculous.
[network playable] × [Mac compatible] × [PC compatible] × [Steam-based] = N (or, number of games investigated)
I'm guessing N is close to 8.
*has a look out of curiosity*
Steam fails to list Multiwinia, Defcon, UT2004 and L4D2 as cross-platform multiplayer, despite the fact that they all are are. Defcon and UT2004 were even cross platform with Linux too!

SupSuper
30 Mar 2011, 15:03
*has a look out of curiosity*
Steam fails to list Multiwinia, Defcon, UT2004 and L4D2 as cross-platform multiplayer, despite the fact that they all are are. Defcon and UT2004 were even cross platform with Linux too!
It's kinda weird that L4D isn't listed, though it was a late update though they probably forgot, I'll report it.
The other games aren't listed because they don't use Steam Play, you can only get the Windows version on Steam.

MrBunsy
30 Mar 2011, 15:40
The other games aren't listed because they don't use Steam Play, you can only get the Windows version on Steam.
Ah, that makes some sense from Steam's point of view. Though from the user's point of view there are more games than steam mentions where you can play people playing the game on a mac.

teo
4 Apr 2011, 10:09
really bad news :(

matteobin
4 Apr 2011, 11:47
really bad news :(
I completely agree.

teo
4 Apr 2011, 13:08
Thought I can play with my clan members who use Windows.
And still something. In this case Worms Reloaded Mac can't be used in the ESL Europe :eek:

Lex
4 Apr 2011, 18:21
There are much deeper-seeded issues that cause WR to be unsuitable for online competitive leagues, like the extreme ease of cheating.

Thurbo
4 Apr 2011, 19:40
There have been more people cheating on me in Worms Armageddon than in Worms Reloaded (actually, I never ran into a cheater in W:R). To be fair, Armageddon is 10 times older than Reloaded, but if anyone would cheat in a competition (like our Mister cheeky cheater dude here) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUXSlt2FxOA), what's the problem with disqualifying them? Competition means fair play, folks.

Lex
4 Apr 2011, 20:24
It's currently impossible to cheat in Worms Armageddon due to its synchronization. I'm not sure what you mean.
Don't derail the thread more though. I know you'll say something like "skipwalking is cheating" or "breaking community-decided rules is cheating" or "there's no official WA league anyway". You don't have to respond.

Thurbo
4 Apr 2011, 21:46
Yes, currently. I'm pretty sure that people used different cheat-hacks on me in the past though. One thing I remember is that I joined a lobby where one of the players used a donkey on me each turn, I still don't know how they did that.
And yea, of course abusing the bugs in W:A is cheating, too.

haggis_
5 Apr 2011, 11:56
It will be clear that you can't play PC against Mac.
The game will share steamworks features such as cloud support for saves, leaderboards and achivements.
Honestly, THIS can't be true. So there will just be a few hundred Mac players and maybe two dozens of them playing online?! Right now, with around 140 beta testers, it's always the same 4 or 5 persons online. No PC vs Mac: it's just like buying one shoe and leaving the other in store...

diz
6 Apr 2011, 10:45
A bit shame I must say.:(

BenFG
31 May 2011, 14:43
I use a mac, I have no-one to play against. Why did you even bother to create a mac version if mac users won't be able to play against most other players.
Do you guys think that Mac and PC rivalry is so high that they wouldn't even play a game against each other?
Please sort this out, and until the game is cross platform, make it MUCH more clear to the buyer, as this is a basic yet very important piece of information for purchasers to know about.
- Dissapointed.

haggis_
6 Jun 2011, 22:05
Maybe, we could arrange some weekly worms session for Mac players?! I will start a new thread to discuss this...

andersbo
11 Jun 2011, 10:59
Maybe, we could arrange some weekly worms session for Mac players?! I will start a new thread to discuss this...
That sounds like a wonderful idea. :)

matteobin
11 Jun 2011, 11:25
Of course it's a good idea, but please Team17 try to solve this problem.
I love Worms and Team17 and I have been a fan of yours since I was a child.
I have bought six times Worms Reloaded: five of these were for my friends. Two of them use Mac OS X and it's very boring that they always have to switch to Windows to play with us.
I don't know anything about porting online multiplayer games on Mac OS X, but I know that it's possible and I know you are a fantastic videogames company too...
So please, make our dreams come true.

Tremor
13 Jun 2011, 09:20
Any plan to solve this then, T17? After finishing the short single player I have nothing to do. It's not like when I was a kid and could just call neighbourhood friend over for a match. Without online play (I find no-one online when I search - I'm on a Mac) the game is severely limited.

NEG
4 Jul 2011, 11:32
I have to say, pretty shocked by this news as well.
I've been a Mac user for 4 years now, and played WA for years before then (checking the forums...still waiting for the fabled 4.0 I see...heh). I still got my Worms fix thanks to XBLA.
I was going to rant, and even wrote alot in this post that I've now deleted. I'm sure Team17 have been told enough about the mistakes of Reloaded judging by other threads on the forum, nonetheless I'll add just one line: A PC version of Worms is always superior to any console version. Put in the effort and do it right, let us have a modern version of Worms with all the bells and whistles, let a whole new generation of gamers have all the complexity of Armageddon, so that then you may have even more fans that stick around and support for another 20 years and beyond.
If Reloaded is continued to be supported, patched and improved on, made into what the current PC players want a modern version of Worms to be, THE title to own if you want to play Worms on a current OS, then great. Rooting for you guys.
So I only learned of the Mac version a couple of days ago, thanks to the Steam sales. For 10-12 bucks I can get the game and all the DLC, and have fun like the good old days....except not thanks to now learning what I did in this thread (something I did not spot in the Steam description, if its written there, my mistake).
If this is the flagship modern OS Worms title, there really is no excuse to make this cross-platform online. Multiplayer is the very essence of Worms, guys.
I really hope the effort is considered in a future patch. As is I don't know if I should get it from the Steam Sales as is. I could do as a sign of support for further continuing to develop the game, but if the servers being separated is permanent...theres not much point longterm. :(
Someday I hope, it'll all be right.

NEG
4 Jul 2011, 21:15
Also, the DLC that has been released, I'd assume is for both operating systems but checking the individual DLC pages...they only list Windows requirements.
EDIT: On the pages on Steam, that is.

MtlAngelus
4 Jul 2011, 21:48
Also, the DLC that has been released, I'd assume is for both operating systems but checking the individual DLC pages...they only list Windows requirements.
EDIT: On the pages on Steam, that is.
The DLC is windows only. A Mac release is still not confirmed. Not that it matters, since buying this game on Mac is a horrible, horrible mistake in the first place, so there's no need for DLC.

Thurbo
5 Jul 2011, 13:38
Using a Mac to play one's games on is a horrible decision anyways

MtlAngelus
5 Jul 2011, 15:53
Using a Mac to play one's games on is a horrible decision anyways
Not if it's the only thing you have. It's a pretty sensible idea when you mac can handle a game and the dev is not lazy enough to leave you without crucial features. Like... I don't know... cross platform on a multiplayer game. That seems important.

NEG
8 Jul 2011, 21:48
...and down to 75% today.
::twiddles thumbs::
Bah :(

darnallt
9 Jul 2011, 08:12
Hi. I just registered on the forums so I could add my voice to the discussion.
I just saw the 75% off deal on Steam and immediately bought the pack with the extra copies which I may now give to friends. Unfortunately, a lot of my friends are using PCs, so there was really no point in making the purchase, since there is no cross-platform support (I use a Mac). I really don't have any interest in playing the game by my self, and from what I've read here, I doubt there is much online play for Mac users anyhow.
This is extremely disappointing. I was really looking forward to using the my mic to talk with friends while playing, like I used to do with Worms Armageddon, but it seems like that won't be possible.
A few quick points:
1. Nowhere in the game description on Steam does it say that there is no cross-platform support. If anything, all the stuff about steam+play convinced me that it would be cross-platform compatible.
2. I assumed that there would be cross-platform support, since many of (maybe all of?) Valve's games have that support, along with other games available from Steam.
3. T17 is way out of touch if it thinks that people won't expect cross-platform support and won't be extremely disappointed by the lack of it.
I hope you guys are more forward with your product information in the future, and I hope you make Worms cross-platform compatible somehow. Otherwise, you've lost another fan.

Willis
9 Jul 2011, 16:09
I run WR primarily on the Mac, and I like it because I don't need a high-end video card to play it. My PC is better for gaming, but I hate turning it on for various reasons, so I'm glad I can fire up Worms on my mac upon a whim.
Having said that, to the preceding post, maybe you could try running it from within a VMware Fusion virtual machine (or Parallels VM). I bet it would run just fine even at the slightly slower speeds of the VM.
Don't forget that buying it through Steam means you can buy it once and play it on either Mac or PC. Still, it would be nice if someday PC and Mac users could play multiplayer together.

matteobin
10 Jul 2011, 10:43
Otherwise, you've lost another fan.
I understand you. A real Team17 fan could be disappointed, but he wouldn't ever leave a fantastic videogames company like this.
It's only an opinion, I don't want to judge anyone.
Nowhere in the game description on Steam does it say that there is no cross-platform support. If anything, all the stuff about steam+play convinced me that it would be cross-platform compatible.
By the way I don't like this thing too, but I trust of Team17...

darnallt
10 Jul 2011, 18:17
I understand you. A real Team17 fan could be disappointed, but he wouldn't ever leave a fantastic videogames company like this.
I've been a fan of theirs for 15-16 years, but if they keep putting out disappointing and poorly put-together products I'm going to stop buying them, and the second that another company creates a game that fills the void T17 are making, I'll buy those products. It's not like I'm suddenly jumping ship, here; I've been continually disappointed by the presentation of their games, their performance and multiplayer capabilities, and the lack of support from T17 post-release.
And I'm only more irritated, seeing that someone from T17 posted in this thread that the lack of cross-platform capability would be clearly known from the product description. Obviously, that is not the case.
Just last night I talked to four of my old buddies who all bought the game themselves, assuming that it had this functionality (all of whom played Armageddon with me back in the day), and all of them were very ****ed that they threw their money away for a feature that isn't there.

Lex
11 Jul 2011, 12:31
I was really looking forward to using the my mic to talk with friends while playing, like I used to do with Worms Armageddon, but it seems like that won't be possible.That's not possible with only Worms Armageddon (http://worms2d.info/Worms_Armageddon). Worms Armageddon requires an external voice chat program like Mumble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumble_%28software%29) or Ventrilo to talk, which could also be used alongside Worms Reloaded. Maybe you're thinking of Worms 2: Armageddon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worms_2:_Armageddon), a later game which stole name elements from Worms 2 and Worms Armageddon in order to trick customers into buying it by leverage from their popularity.

matteobin
11 Jul 2011, 12:42
Worms 2: Armageddon[/url], a later game which stole name elements from Worms 2 and Worms Armageddon in order to trick customers into buying it by leverage from their popularity.
Well that's not correct, the number "2" in the title refers on the second episode of Worms for PS3 and Xbox 360.
And the word "Armageddon" it's because this game is more focused on the second 2D generation of Worms games than his predecessor (that one was based on the gameplay of the first Worms game).
Moreover I think Worms 2: Armageddon is a damn good game.

bonz
11 Jul 2011, 13:03
Worms 2: Armageddon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worms_2:_Armageddon), a later game which stole name elements from Worms 2 and Worms Armageddon in order to trick customers into buying it by leverage from their popularity.
Ehrm, "it" stole nothing.
All those games are T17's intellectual property and developed and/or published by them, so they can name them however they want.
T17 have done the same thing years ago, when they named several mobile phone and console games simply "Worms".
I haven't seen you then accusing T17 of trying "to trick customers into buying it by leverage from their popularity". :rolleyes:
This reminds of Apple, thinking they own the rights to anything that has a minuscule "i" in front of its name.
Also, not adding "Armageddon" to Worms 2: Armageddon wouldn't have changed anything for Worms Armageddon or turned back the time 10 years to when were apparently were the Golden Years of Worms gaming... :p
And finally, anyone who buys a game simply by its name, without getting further information and then feels tricked, is a complete and utter fool, who, frankly, doesn't deserve any better.

darnallt
11 Jul 2011, 19:16
That's not possible with only Worms Armageddon (http://worms2d.info/Worms_Armageddon). Worms Armageddon requires an external voice chat program like Mumble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumble_%28software%29) or Ventrilo to talk, which could also be used alongside Worms Reloaded. Maybe you're thinking of Worms 2: Armageddon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worms_2:_Armageddon), a later game which stole name elements from Worms 2 and Worms Armageddon in order to trick customers into buying it by leverage from their popularity.
Sorry, I misspoke. I meant that I was looking forward to playing Worms while talking with friends, like I used to do when my friends and I played in the same physical space. If Worms Reloaded had cross-platform capabilities, with the mic support, then I would've been able to talk and play with friends that no longer live near me.

Lex
12 Jul 2011, 14:49
Ah, that makes sense. Well, now you know Mumble can be used for that purpose with any game. :)

NEG
12 Jul 2011, 22:04
I've been a fan of theirs for 15-16 years, but if they keep putting out disappointing and poorly put-together products I'm going to stop buying them,
This pretty much was what I was trying to convey in my first message.
You can only get by with fan loyalty for so long, or lack thereof already, as folks playing WA era are probably not even buying the newer games judging by feedback from forums/reviews or whatever, at a guess. Whilst fans returning from years gone by (like me)are...well, surprised, to say the least, and left disappointed.
This leaves the casual fans who don't care about specific odds and ends in the Worms games, and it's clear the games are still doing fine sales for T17.
But you can only go for so long with being lazy/not devoted to a proper fleshed out Worms title again. My guess is eventually (if WR doesn't get updates to compensate) T17 will re-release Armageddon and just call it a day, concentrating on iOS and console game development instead.
Which you can't exactly blame them for, business-wise. But it is short-sighted goal if it is the case.
Some would argue so what, 'WA IS TEH BEST!11one' and whatever else. But I'd disagree, theres some great weapons and ideas thrown into the newer titles, let WA have its own space. But let it not be the 'only' space for Worms. That would only smell of defeat to me.
(the closest example I can point to is street fighter, 2/3/4, all appreciated for their own different thing. Imagine if Street Fighter 2 were still considered only the best and no SF games should dare advance the formula.)
Regardless all of this is a different topic, but I wanted to express my frustrations regardless. 12 freaking years, guys. Sheesh.

marcosrv
7 Jun 2012, 09:14
I've just bought the 4-pack to give copies of the game to my friends (2 of them are Mac users) and found out (through the worst way) that I'm unable to play with them.
Why did I think I could do this? Maybe because I already did this before with other Steam games, like Portal 2 and Left 4 Dead.
How Valve managed to do this cross-platforming work? Maybe because they're awesome coders. You guys at Team17 should spend a holiday camp with them, to learn something here and there about how to make a nice working game.
Cheers.

Thurbo
12 Jun 2012, 12:56
You should try spending some time in a holiday camp that teaches you to get informed about products before buying them. Since such a camp most likely doesn't exist, take this as a viable lesson instead.

Aircooled
20 Apr 2013, 09:20
Lets run down this shall we?
*We've got the exact same game
*I personally have NEVER heard of not being able to link together via multiplayer mode due to different operating systems on the same game
*You look at reviews, reviews don't mention this
*You look at steam, steam doesn't mention this
Thanks Team17, waste of my money when I wanted to play a game with a friend halfway around the world.

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