Does TEAM17 look at this board? [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Djoszee
6 Oct 2010, 15:38
Do they? Does it make sense to report bugs here? Do we really have to visit the chaotic steamforums?
An answer from the team17 staff would be appreciated.
tyvm

GranPC
6 Oct 2010, 17:11
yes
10char

Skeeter
6 Oct 2010, 17:32
Well we dont see bill posting here like he does on the steam forums do we. So no i dont think they are too bothered here.

Djoszee
6 Oct 2010, 17:39
my point exacly skeeter. I think this board is just as usefull, so they should look at it...

thomasp
6 Oct 2010, 17:45
There tends to be quite a bit of hostility on here, coupled with negativity and downright rudeness towards Team17's games, and a lot of the staff got fed up by that and left. Unfortunately, it happens on most releases, and a lot of the staff seem to lose the will to post as a result.
That's my take on it at least.

Djoszee
6 Oct 2010, 19:55
My point is: what is the use of posting bugs here, when team17 doesn't look here at all?
I mean: the steamforums are a mess....

_Kilburn
6 Oct 2010, 21:33
There tends to be quite a bit of hostility on here, coupled with negativity and downright rudeness towards Team17's games, and a lot of the staff got fed up by that and left. Unfortunately, it happens on most releases, and a lot of the staff seem to lose the will to post as a result.
That's my take on it at least.
As if this negativity and rudeness have no reason to be. :rolleyes: I mean, yeah maybe we're being mean and everything, but there is certainly a reason for that right? Instead, they go and look for more positive feedback in another place, and that place appears to be the Steam forums, which is very probably filled with people who have never played Worms before.
Get away from old fans, come closer to casuals. I like where the Worms franchise is going.

Thurasiz
6 Oct 2010, 22:21
I don't see the steam Forums being that more polite.
Whiners are everywhere, complaining about just anything they personally don't like on whatever game the Forum is about, not just Worms.
Maybe, instead of insulting them for those points one don't like, or those things that are indeed bugs (which Worms reloaded has, no question about that), maybe the people should argue constructivly with he Developers, and every now and then give a little positive feedback as well.
I mean, it's not like Worms is unplayable like Gothic 3, or Empire: Total war in the first weeks, or almost every EA game, Worms 3 is playable, and it may not be the best worms game ever, but it is, cation here comes my own opinion, still a god and fun game which has a good potential when Team 17 keeps on bugfixing and if they will add Content from Time to Time, without making it DLC to pay for...
Well i got carried away a bit, so let's sum it up:
If you want someone to read what you think at least try being constructive !

Plasma
7 Oct 2010, 01:44
They frequent Facebook more because it's much more direct - forums are generally more for user-to-user conversations, whereas with Facebook the majority of questions/conversations are always to Team17.
I dunno about the Steam Forums, because I don't go on them enough to say anything about what they're like.
Although,
Get away from old fans, come closer to casuals. I like where the Worms franchise is going.
I think ThomAsp hit the nail on the head this time!

BillT17
7 Oct 2010, 10:32
To be honest, I am spread rather thin these days, so I usually need a nudge to come and comment, but I try my best to keep up to everything.

Djoszee
7 Oct 2010, 16:08
To be honest, I am spread rather thin these days, so I usually need a nudge to come and comment, but I try my best to keep up to everything.
It doesn't really matter if you post or not. Just the fact that you see our reported bugs and suggestions, and possibly adding them to your 'to-do-list' is satisfying enough. The steamforums are too overcrowded with newbies and wannabe's

NAiL
8 Oct 2010, 03:59
Team17 couldnt care less about user feedback.
Beta testers report bugs, Team17 reply "as intended".
Community suggests improvement, Team17 dont say anything.
Also my sig.
Im in Bournemouth atm and apparently the guy who originally invented Worms now owns a bar down here, im hoping to meet him and tell him everythings gone tits up!

bonz
8 Oct 2010, 10:46
Im in Bournemouth atm and apparently the guy who originally invented Worms now owns a bar down here, im hoping to meet him and tell him everythings gone tits up!
Better ask him about Worms: The Director's Cut and whether he has worked on a new patch/version for that, like he once mentioned to Squirminator2K a few years ago. :D

NAiL
8 Oct 2010, 17:24
Sure!
Im not joking either, been told by a few different people doing a computer games course that he now owns a bar in this area, would love to have a big chat about worms with him! Dont know if he lives here or not, or how often he's at the bar, fingers crossed tho.

bonz
8 Oct 2010, 23:59
Sure!
Im not joking either, been told by a few different people doing a computer games course that he now owns a bar in this area, would love to have a big chat about worms with him! Dont know if he lives here or not, or how often he's at the bar, fingers crossed tho.
http://www.facebook.com/ibar.bournemouth
http://www.myspace.com/ibar
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ibar-map
http://www.facebook.com/ibarmy
You're on a mission now...

Woodbar
9 Oct 2010, 00:53
Hi guys,
Thought I'd chime in here.
Contrary to the opinion expressed on this board, there are a lot of us Teamsters who read this forum. I personally do every night, and I know a lot of my colleagues do as well.
We take in everything that is posted on these boards. From my own experience, I want to know how the community are enjoying the games I contribute to, and I look at every impediment that is holding you back from enjoying the game as it's meant to be played.
There is a lot of love put into our games, and we do sit back and take balance of how the games will be perceived by the wider public.
Unfortunately for us, it is very difficult as developers to take action on everyone's personal gripes. We're all listening to your concerns, but as developers we cannot weigh in and agree to fix every issue, minor or major as they may be, simply because it is not in our remit to do so.
To be fixed, each issue has to be examined, weighed up and committed to by our management team, as it is in any game development company. I'd love to be able to say to you guys that it we will endeavour to fix everything that is raised in this forum. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
All I can do is reassure you that the majority of the teams that work on our products do read the forums and listen to your feedback. We do so because we are passionate about the products we make.
But we cannot promise to something we have no control over. All I can do is assure you that we do take your feedback into account and try to make the best games that we can for you.
Hope this answers some of your questions, and explains why us Teamsters don't get involved in all your discussions. Our community manager speaks on behalf of Team17, but remember that we are all listening! :)
-Woody

Johnnynet
11 Oct 2010, 17:02
Nicely said Woody,
I for one, know that you guys try your best to fix certain issues, and I honestly appreciate the work you guys do for the community, and the players.

Darkspark
13 Oct 2010, 13:56
A major problem with T17 is that their games ship with bugs that should never be in a released product. Just looking at the car crash that is Worms Reloaded will demonstrate that. I have quite frankly NEVER played a game and noticed as many bugs, or ones as obvious as those than shipped in Worms reloaded.
Games normally have one of two big bugs and tons of smaller bugs I never notice/or that affect me but are fixed in subsequent patches. In online games in particular, I've NEVER had a flawless experience. There is ALWAYS some sort of bug preventing me from playing. If I've experienced every type of bug out there, I find it difficult to believe these were not encountered during testing.
Of course you need to release products and ensure cashflow, but trust me, you're harming yourselves in the long term by releasing incomplete products at the expense of the consumer. Sure we want instant gratification, but I'm sure many players would prefer to wait for the game done right than done badly.
Worms Reloaded had the chance to build the game upon an enormous community, by carefully building in community features and a proper multiplayer experience. But by rushing out the game, you may have sold more copies on launch day than W:A for instance, but many will not be burned a second time.

_Kilburn
13 Oct 2010, 19:49
There is a lot of love put into our games, and we do sit back and take balance of how the games will be perceived by the wider public.
Those are some nice words and I really wish I could believe them. I felt the amount of love which was put in Worms Blast and Worms 3D, and even though their gameplay was not perfect, their originality is what made me particularly enjoy them because those were true works of art with a lot of effort put into them.
However, I can't see exactly where that love went in Worms Reloaded, unless porting Worms 2: Armageddon to the PC and adapting the netcode so it works with Steam requires colossal efforts. The menus are simply painful to navigate and read, the in-game chat is absolutely ridiculous, you can't even chat between turns, most of the graphics look like they have been the same since Worms Open Warfare 2, and worms lack a falling animation when they walk down a ledge, that last one might seem minor but it looks seriously unprofessional.
The worst part of it is that I've seen people report those issues during beta testing, and any report which did not concern multiplayer was usually ignored. I'd like to know the reason behind this, other than the fact that it does not affect gameplay. But then you could have simply used a command prompt instead of the menu, no need for that fancy animated background, because after all, it does not affect the gameplay, does it?
And most importantly, I honestly fail to see where love has been put in the missions. They all lack the silly scenarios and funny-looking terrains they used to have from Worms Armageddon to Worms 4: Mayhem, they are all ridiculously easy and there is usually almost no skill involved. Now it's just "here, have enemy worms, kill them all, oh and by the way you have lots of jetpacks and powerful weapons so it's totally not obvious you have a gigantic advantage over them from the start".
On the puzzles side, new physics and electromagnets could have made everything a lot more interesting, but the way they are used is just ridiculous, the solution is usually so obvious that completing them gives absolutely no satisfaction at all.
Missions used to be insanely hard and frustrating, and that's what gave that sense of accomplishment when you completed them. Some of them would involve grenade skills coupled with clever girder positioning, others would rely on bazooka skills.
So yeah, since I was expecting to have a good singleplayer time when I bought this game, I'm very disappointed. That's kind of the opposite of the other people, who complain about multiplayer issues. It is a decent game, and actually, I applaud your sound artist(s?) who did an amazing job on the music, sound effects and soundbanks. The physics and AI coding are quite impressive too, but I'm not sure that's relevant to Worms Reloaded, I believe they were the same in Worms 2: Armageddon.
It would have been extremely awesome as a sequel of Worms 2 and Worms Open Warfare 2. Except you guys released Worms Armageddon, Worms World Party, Worms 3D, Worms Forts and Worms 4 Mayhem in between.
Edit: By the way, the Steam Powered User Forums are known for giving terrible suggestions, it's usually not a good idea to attempt to satisfy them, just look at what Team Fortress 2 became because of the people whining over there.

Plasma
13 Oct 2010, 23:59
Missions used to be insanely hard and frustrating, and that's what gave that sense of accomplishment when you completed them. Some of them would involve grenade skills coupled with clever girder positioning, others would rely on bazooka skills.
I AM A FULLY GROWN ADULT WITH SEVERAL YEARS OF PAST EXPERIENCES PLAYING THIS SERIES! THIS CHILDREN'S VIDEOGAME IS TOO EASY!
Edit: By the way, the Steam Powered User Forums are known for giving terrible suggestions, it's usually not a good idea to attempt to satisfy them, just look at what Team Fortress 2 became because of the people whining over there.
Steam Forums
Posts: 5 million
Members: 400 thousand
Can you, say, possibly take that into consideration before generalising literally everyone there into having the same mindframe?

KRD
14 Oct 2010, 01:55
Can you, say, possibly take that into consideration before generalising literally everyone there into having the same mindframe?
Doesn't mean it isn't sound advice.

MtlAngelus
14 Oct 2010, 02:43
I AM A FULLY GROWN ADULT WITH SEVERAL YEARS OF PAST EXPERIENCES PLAYING THIS SERIES! THIS CHILDREN'S VIDEOGAME IS TOO EASY!
Because only children play videogames, right?

Iceworm
14 Oct 2010, 04:13
Because only children play videogames, right?Yup, some series end up becoming easier by the game.

_Kilburn
14 Oct 2010, 08:24
I AM A FULLY GROWN ADULT WITH SEVERAL YEARS OF PAST EXPERIENCES PLAYING THIS SERIES! THIS CHILDREN'S VIDEOGAME IS TOO EASY!
That's the exact state of mind Team17 seems to be having now. And I think that's sad.
Plus your argument is totally irrelevant, Worms Armageddon is still good and its missions are still hard and frustrating, that didn't prevent me from enjoying it when I played it for the first time, I must have been around 10 back then.
And for god's sake, you were even forced to acquire basic bazooka and grenade skills before being able to start the missions, and there were additional training levels to enhance the skills you have acquired while playing the missions.
Now it's nothing else than, "let's learn to move around, here, bazooka does this, grenade does that, but don't bother practicing because they will be useless in the missions since you have plenty of jetpacks and ropes anyway".
Can you, say, possibly take that into consideration before generalising literally everyone there into having the same mindframe?
I've been there, and the majority of members is made of idiotic kids, the kind of "wider public" Team17 seems to be aiming for, actually. Problem is, you might be tempted to satisfy the majority, but it's really not a good idea because they have no idea what's good for them and what isn't, and if you attempt to satisfy them, they will whine about it twice more.
As I said, just look at what they did to Team Fortress 2! Valve made the mistake of taking their suggestions into account, and now the game went from a perfectly balanced and original shooter to a hat-themed war simulating party game.

MrAlBobo
15 Oct 2010, 00:09
As I said, just look at what they did to Team Fortress 2! Valve made the mistake of taking their suggestions into account, and now the game went from a perfectly balanced and original shooter to a hat-themed war simulating party game.
Tf2 has been getting progressively better, there have been some forward and backwards steps sure, but if your trying to make a comparison to a game that has been made worse by community input you have failed.
And for your reference, the most unbalanced things currently in the game are the things that were there since..."vanilla" tf2.
Or, to put it in the frame of your argument..."ive played the game for 980 hours, so my opinion is more valid then yours".
All that said, the steam forums are notorious for being...uhh...not a place for intelligent conversation.

Iceworm
15 Oct 2010, 01:09
I cannot do any comparation with TF2 because I have never played it. Neither have I been to a steam forum. I think the only Valve game I ever played (do play) is Garrys mod. Which is more of a sandbox type of game.

Thurbo
15 Oct 2010, 13:13
I totally agree with _Kilburn (only that I do think Team17 put love into this game :p).
Come on, did anyone of you really enjoy the missions? I guess you didn't even realise you can beat mission 1 - 5 by skipping all your turns (the A.I.s would eventually kill themselves)
I must say I only liked one or two puzzles and the unlockable campaigns which were a little harder than the others. Warzone could potentially have been challenging but guess what? You got a bunch of jet packs and most of the enemies stand next to a mine so all you gotta do in your first turn is flying around and activating all mines - then there are about one or two enemies left, easy to be killed too...
Incredible that there are still people unable to finish the campaigns. No matter if it's because they are empty-headed or just plain lazy, it makes me really, really sad.
My only hope is the new "user-update" giving us some new, challenging single-player stuff.

_Kilburn
15 Oct 2010, 13:34
http://uppix.net/9/2/2/0e6bbc6cb6eb9fb0c586fefa4960f.png
I FEEL the amount of love which was put into this grenade sprite. :cool:
No seriously, I laughed, even though you don't really notice it in-game because it moves and bounces around.
On a more serious note, other than the missions, there are a lot of things which look very unprofessional in the game. As I pointed it out, a lot of the weapon icons would have their place in a fan-game, but definitely not in a professional game because they look like they were badly edited with Photoshop. The way large objects such as magnets rotate looks horribly unnatural too. Worms immediately holstering their gas pump upon shooting, that looks pretty weird too.
And of course the Bunker Buster which really doesn't look like what it should look like. I feel like I'm playing a Fiddler scheme where some projectiles have a horribly unfitting sprite because the creator couldn't find anything better in the default WA sprites.

Thurbo
15 Oct 2010, 14:11
They should have taken the sprites from the iPod version... but anyway you wouldn't realise it in-game, as you pointed out... and do the W:A sprites look any better? The grenade is a green oval with some shading. And the cluster is a red oval with some shading. Just wanted to remind you :p

DrMelon
16 Oct 2010, 10:15
I think the only Valve game I ever played (do play) is Garrys mod.
Which, funnily enough, isn't actually a Valve game.
Also, in my opinion, if you have GMod you should at least have played Half-Life 2. I mean, it's a great game, and GMod is based on it.
Or Portal. Come on, you can't tell me you haven't played Portal.

Iceworm
16 Oct 2010, 10:43
Which, funnily enough, isn't actually a Valve game.
Also, in my opinion, if you have GMod you should at least have played Half-Life 2. I mean, it's a great game, and GMod is based on it.
Or Portal. Come on, you can't tell me you haven't played Portal.Nope, never played either. And I don't think I'll ever play hl2. I don't play with zombies or any of those npcs on gmod. And I put a no blood mode on it.
P.S. I don't like bloody fps.

Darkspark
17 Oct 2010, 04:07
You really should play Portal. It's a FPP. First Person Puzzler. If you like Garrys mod and playing around with physics there, you'll love portal.

Iceworm
17 Oct 2010, 07:42
I'm not going to buy the game. But I will try the demo.

CakeDoer
17 Oct 2010, 10:03
You know, you could have gotten it when it was ****ing free.

Iceworm
17 Oct 2010, 10:20
I didn't know it existed then.

Plasma
17 Oct 2010, 10:35
Come on, did anyone of you really enjoy the missions? I guess you didn't even realise you can beat mission 1 - 5 by skipping all your turns (the A.I.s would eventually kill themselves)
The missions were pants, but not because of the reasons Kilburn keeps going on about. They were rubbish because... they were just rubbish - hardly any effort put in at all, even W2's missions were more creative. You could have all the backstory you wanted in, or make it as hard as possible, but they'd still be completely rubbish!

Darkspark
17 Oct 2010, 13:58
The missions were pants, but not because of the reasons Kilburn keeps going on about. They were rubbish because... they were just rubbish - hardly any effort put in at all, even W2's missions were more creative. You could have all the backstory you wanted in, or make it as hard as possible, but they'd still be completely rubbish!
Even the mission structure for Open Warfare 2 had themes and progression. The movies were hilarious and you would be dropped into a particular environment, such as WW2, Space, Pirates etc, which tied in with the movie cutscenes.

_Kilburn
17 Oct 2010, 20:13
The missions were pants, but not because of the reasons Kilburn keeps going on about. They were rubbish because... they were just rubbish - hardly any effort put in at all, even W2's missions were more creative. You could have all the backstory you wanted in, or make it as hard as possible, but they'd still be completely rubbish!
Yeah well, I had to give some "valid" reasons. Actually if I'm going to spit out my general opinion about it, I'll say that the whole game is rubbish, I wouldn't know how to describe it but about everything is wrong with it, from the menus to the general graphics design, from the missions to the online mode. The menus are awful to navigate and horribly poorly designed, the missions are awfully easy, boring and unbalanced, the graphics look like they were put together from various artists, and for god's sake, why does a bunker buster which emits such a jackhammer-like sound look so fat and blunt?
The funniest part is the online mode, after all these efforts, all this testing, it's still buggy and horribly slow after release.

Plasma
18 Oct 2010, 11:28
Actually if I'm going to spit out my general opinion about it
You already did. In this same thread. Literally all your poitns there are repeated from the previous page!
We get it. You don't like the game. You Have valid reasons for not liking the game. But for the love of god, you do not have to repeat yourself every chance you can! We heard you the first time! We're not going to spontaneously forget about why you don't like the game if we don't hear about it every 5 days! Stop being Thurbo!
Especially the Bunker Buster thing. Yes, the Bunker Buster being round doesn't make much sense. We gathered that. It's fairly obvious from the first time it's seen. So why on earth have you been making a big constant charade about it ever since the game's release?

Thurbo
18 Oct 2010, 14:09
and for god's sake, why does a bunker buster which emits such a jackhammer-like sound look so fat and blunt?
I don't see why you are so upset about the bunker buster for such a silly reason!
See, real bunker busters work like this - they got a case-hardened steel sheath to be able to cut through earth, and an inbuilt clockwork bomb thus they explode after a certain amount of time. I'd say that's pretty close to how they work in Worms.
And about the jackhammer sound? Well this is Worms. In cartoons you sometimes add jackhammer sounds to objects that dig, even though they aren't akin to jackhammers at all. Even actors searching for a treasure equipped with a shovel sometimes make this noise if they live in a bloody cartoon! Please stop whining about this - it really makes no sense at all. :p

_Kilburn
18 Oct 2010, 20:52
But it's fat! And blunt! And ugly! :mad: No, seriously I really don't see how it can penetrate rock if it's shaped like that, and the sound is just silly. You'd expect it to be some kind of mini-nuke or something, but definitely not a digging bomb.
And I know I'm probably annoying, but I'd simply like Team17 to stop pretending WR is a masterpiece, and just stop murdering the Worms franchise in general. Give it a break or something, I see gimmicky console ports and cellphone games being released every 6 months, it's starting to become a meme more than anything. I hope WR was released just for casual PC gamers, so they can get a taste of the "fourth generation games", and that it will be the last one to be released for that purpose.
Maybe give more love to those neat Worms spinoffs, I'd love to see a good sequel to Worms Blast on Steam, with online multiplayer support, or another Worms Forts, or even Worms Battle Rally, it looked quite promising.
I guess budget management always gets in the way, and it's definitely not as easy as it sounds, but heck, there must be a solution! :( That's mainly why I bought WR in the first place, I knew it wasn't going to be exceptional since the beginning, but still, I had faith in the singleplayer mode and it was a massive disappointment.

MtlAngelus
18 Oct 2010, 23:10
Worms Battle Rally, it looked quite promising.
There was like, one single screenshot, how could it look promising? :p

_Kilburn
19 Oct 2010, 07:00
But it looked pretty good already. And there were 3 screenshots, if I remember correctly.

MtlAngelus
19 Oct 2010, 07:41
But it looked pretty good already. And there were 3 screenshots, if I remember correctly.
Yeah but you can't really judge anything but the graphics from three screenshots.

Iceworm
19 Oct 2010, 08:11
And there were 3 screenshots, if I remember correctly.Lets see. 2 are on dream 17, and the 3rd one is located..?

_Kilburn
19 Oct 2010, 09:25
Lets see. 2 are on dream 17, and the 3rd one is located..?
What, last time I checked, there were 3 screenies on Dream 17, or maybe I just imagined it. Also, the game looked decent, and new, and I welcome anything that is Worms, looks good, and is new. We haven't been getting new stuff since Worms Forts. Or Worms 4 Mayhem, to a certain extent, at least it kept some people busy because weapon tweak files were more accessible.
Talking about customizability, I'd really like it if Team17 stopped thinking their community is 100% brain deficient children, there should be more room for creativity and something else than a super advanced map editor, heck, Warioware DIY completely revolved around a "script" editor which could have been really complex for people who don't know the basics of programming. And yet it became rather popular and successful, and you can find quite a lot of creative minigames on Youtube.

Plasma
19 Oct 2010, 10:09
No, seriously I really don't see how it can penetrate rock if it's shaped like that.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Tall_Boy_Bombe.jpg/180px-Tall_Boy_Bombe.jpg
FAKE! FAAAKE!
there should be more room for creativity and something else than a super advanced map editor, heck, Warioware DIY completely revolved around a "script" editor which could have been really complex for people who don't know the basics of programming. And yet it became rather popular and successful, and you can find quite a lot of creative minigames on Youtube.
I, too, wish that Team17 had the same customisation complexity as a Nintendo game based entirely around customisation! Why on earth do you think they in any way have the budget to do something like that?!
Maybe give more love to those neat Worms spinoffs, I'd love to see a good sequel to Worms Blast on Steam, with online multiplayer support, or another Worms Forts, or even Worms Battle Rally, it looked quite promising.
Y'know, like Worms Forts, the game everyone else has acknowledged didn't work out and wasn't as fun. Or Worms Battle Rally, yet another kart game with an unrelated franchise tagged on and was actually abandoned.
PROMISING GAMES, RITE? SO MUCH MORE SALES POTENTIAL THAN THE HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL WORMS SERIES! TEAM17 SHOULD LISTEN TO ME RATHER THAN THOSE GUYS AT SOME OTHER FORUM!
Really now, your arguments are just getting ridiculous at this point.

Esbern
19 Oct 2010, 13:33
Sequel to Worms Blast would be neet. I think worms is a little bit like a puzzle game (like some of the missions) and that's why Worms Blast worked so well to be a shooting/puzzler or whatever you call it :P

GranPC
19 Oct 2010, 15:15
Or Worms Battle Rally, yet another kart game with an unrelated franchise tagged on and was actually abandoned.
no, it was the publisher who told them not to release it and release worms forts instead. get your facts straight before saying someone else's arguments are retarded.

Iceworm
19 Oct 2010, 19:49
Why was this topic created in the WR section anyway when it isn't even about it?

MtlAngelus
19 Oct 2010, 22:09
Why was this topic created in the WR section anyway when it isn't even about it?
It is about this subsection of the forum. "Does TEAM17 look at this board?"refers directly to this setion of the forum, I believe.

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