Large custom maps [Archive] - Team17 Forum

PDA

View Full Version : Large custom maps

Fluck
16 Aug 2010, 07:25
After reading through a few forum posts (including the one about the 4:4 team:worm limit) I became seriously frightened that Worms: Reloaded isn't going to support hugely giant maps.
The only way my friends and I play W:A these days is with maps that are between 2000 and 8000 pixels wide and high, and we can never express how happy we are that the game supports these maps.
While I think it's ridiculous that we should be limited to 4 worms and teams, I'm even more concerned that this choice is related to custom maps being limited to the tiny, boring size that the original game maps are.
In the many years I've spent enjoying worms games, particularly Armageddon, I've been praying and hoping that Team17 would update its 2D engine to support more customisation, not less.
In the vain hope that my opinion is relevant, these are the features my friends and I have been waiting for for about a decade:
An in-game mini-map to navigate larger maps
Everything here: http://worms2d.info/Map_Editor
On that note, I have to say that I don't know that much about what's coming up in this game, but to say that the community wants or has been expecting the things here http://worms2d.info/Map_Editor would be an understatement.
Please, Team17, support large, custom maps. Please. I'll definitely buy your game and I'll even pre-order it as soon as these features are announced... :D

Pino
16 Aug 2010, 10:32
Guess you won't be pre-ordering this game then...

Wormetti
16 Aug 2010, 15:08
The max landscape size is currently 2560 X 1280 or the opposite for vertical maps.

Pino
16 Aug 2010, 16:02
The max landscape size is currently 2560 X 1280 or the opposite for vertical maps.
But it also seems that worms take more pixels now 2560 X 1280 in this game is smaller then 2560 X 1280 in WA

Thurbo
16 Aug 2010, 16:45
Hey what the? Another complain thread hooray!
No, really. Maps with with that size are unnecessary for this game and they're neither good for gameplay. It would absolutely be too much for newcomers, in fact only pro-ish players could play serious matches on such maps.

Wormetti
16 Aug 2010, 17:04
You also said importing own images was not needed and impossible but they added that feature. You are way too negative and highly underestimate Team17's abilities.

NAiL
16 Aug 2010, 17:39
Hey what the? Another complain thread hooray!
No, really. Maps with with that size are unnecessary for this game and they're neither good for gameplay. It would absolutely be too much for newcomers, in fact only pro-ish players could play serious matches on such maps.
What are you talking about...?
You ever played a big RR? They're great fun to play, for players of all skill levels.
"Not good for gameplay"... big maps allow for some very creative forms of gameplay and really fun schemes. Heres an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw6oRapJec4
Fact is reloaded is nothing like wa, customability is nowhere near as functional and diverse as wa and all the physics are completely different. Its changed, for the worse.
Creativity and diversity is what makes this game so great, I completely agree with the initial post in this thread. Why would they make the game less customisable and less diverse? Im not saying that this won't be a fun game to play for the casual gamer, but if your a hardcore wormer and want to get the most from your worming experience, Armageddon is the way to go.

Kalan
16 Aug 2010, 17:59
What are you talking about...?
You ever played a big RR? They're great fun to play, for players of all skill levels.
"Not good for gameplay"... big maps allow for some very creative forms of gameplay and really fun schemes. Heres an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw6oRapJec4
Fact is reloaded is nothing like wa, customability is nowhere near as functional and diverse as wa and all the physics are completely different. Its changed, for the worse.
Creativity and diversity is what makes this game so great, I completely agree with the initial post in this thread. Why would they make the game less customisable and less diverse? Im not saying that this won't be a fun game to play for the casual gamer, but if your a hardcore wormer and want to get the most from your worming experience, Armageddon is the way to go.
I understand your point...
But isn't it better waiting till W:R is released, play the demo, then decide?

CakeDoer
16 Aug 2010, 18:09
Maps with with that size are unnecessary for this game and they're neither good for gameplay. It would absolutely be too much for newcomers, in fact only pro-ish players could play serious matches on such maps.
You are a complete idiot. Go home.
I've been playing online schemes for less than two months (I can barely call myself a pro, but I do know the rope one-two) and I absolutely love big maps, lots of fun. One of the best shopper maps is bigger than the 2560x1280 limit, and most rope race maps are definitely bigger than that. To me, this feature is even more important than a raised worm limit, so I can't help but feel that your post makes little to no sense at all.
From what I've gathered from your posts, the only scheme you've ever played is Begginner and even though you've barely scratched the surface of Armageddon (or whatever you play), you're certain that big maps and more worms on-screen are bad for Reloaded. Screw you, buddy.

NAiL
16 Aug 2010, 18:12
I understand your point...
But isn't it better waiting till W:R is released, play the demo, then decide?
Yeh of course, its best to wait until the released game to make a proper decision. The thing is its already strikingly obvious to anyone who regulary plays wa that this game is a completely differnet animal, it behaves in a completely different way to wa. Its clear from the videos and screenshots, its clear from the facts already released about the game, its clear from every angle that Reloaded is worse in comparison to wa.
Casual gamers will probably love it, but for serious worms players, its already clear that there will be no major shift to reloaded. I dont have a problem with reloaded, good on T17 for making another worms game. It may attract some more players to the game, and in turn hopefully more players to Armageddon. However the people who love the creativity, diversity, and accuracy of worms armageddon, will be sticking to worms armageddon.
Reloaded was made for the masses, not the masters.

Kalan
16 Aug 2010, 18:22
Yeh of course, its best to wait until the released game to make a proper decision. The thing is its already strikingly obvious to anyone who regulary plays wa that this game is a completely differnet animal, it behaves in a completely different way to wa. Its clear from the videos and screenshots, its clear from the facts already released about the game, its clear from every angle that Reloaded is worse in comparison to wa.
Casual gamers will probably love it, but for serious worms players, its already clear that there will be no major shift to reloaded. I dont have a problem with reloaded, good on T17 for making another worms game. It may attract some more players to the game, and in turn hopefully more players to Armageddon. However the people who love the creativity, diversity, and accuracy of worms armageddon, will be sticking to worms armageddon.
Reloaded was made for the masses, not the masters.
Most game trailers only show SOME features of the game, Team 17 could be preparing a surprise or anything, we never know. *slapped in the face*
Also, Reloaded couldn't be identical to Armageddon, it would be like playing the same game again with better graphics and a different online game experience. :confused:
Although I agree the game could use more customization options and such, there's more to Worms than just customization and look-like Armageddon...
This is just my opinion. When the game comes out I'll probably change it or something.

Thurbo
16 Aug 2010, 18:35
You also said importing own images was not needed and impossible but they added that feature. You are way too negative and highly underestimate Team17's abilities.
I neither said it wasn't needed (because it's great to draw your own maps and use them in a game) nor it's impossible. I only worried it could work at all because of those 3D backgrounds and other stuff. So, yes I underestimated them (come on, they didn't manage to kill the most gameplay-killing bugs from Worms Open Warfare over OW2 till W2A. Especially the out-of-order-online mode in OW2 was kind of freaking me out - I just didn't expect them to get this stuff right anymore :p).
Giant maps clearly are a gameplay issue. I forgot about rope races, sorry (weren't mentioned in first post though). I hope ninja rope actually works in large maps properly :-/

Cathulhu
16 Aug 2010, 18:36
It's interesting how people can judge a game based on three trailers that shows just fidgments of the whole gameplay.
Very impressive. Maybe you should wait for the demo before you doom the game.

Fluck
16 Aug 2010, 18:37
Hey what the? Another complain thread hooray!
No, really. Maps with with that size are unnecessary for this game and they're neither good for gameplay. It would absolutely be too much for newcomers, in fact only pro-ish players could play serious matches on such maps.I'm not complaining. I'm expressing disenchantment.
I'm definitely not suggesting any new worms game comes packed with oversized maps, I'm just hoping that they leave in the beautiful ability for the community to fully exploit their creativity within the game by making maps however big they want. To clarify, I would expect reloaded to ship with only normal sized maps but the ability to make custom maps of any size is essential. That means you're only ever exposed to big maps if you have an express interest in them - the same as W:A.
It may attract some more players to the game, and in turn hopefully more players to Armageddon. However the people who love the creativity, diversity, and accuracy of worms armageddon, will be sticking to worms armageddon.
Reloaded was made for the masses, not the masters.Doubtlessly this is cliche by now, but you've really hit yourself on the head there.

Thurbo
16 Aug 2010, 18:57
You are a complete idiot. Go home.
I've been playing online schemes for less than two months (I can barely call myself a pro, but I do know the rope one-two) and I absolutely love big maps, lots of fun. One of the best shopper maps is bigger than the 2560x1280 limit, and most rope race maps are definitely bigger than that. To me, this feature is even more important than a raised worm limit, so I can't help but feel that your post makes little to no sense at all.
From what I've gathered from your posts, the only scheme you've ever played is Begginner and even though you've barely scratched the surface of Armageddon (or whatever you play), you're certain that big maps and more worms on-screen are bad for Reloaded. Screw you, buddy.
You are a completely ignorant person. Go home.
You call me a noob because I dislike giant maps for deathmatches (and I WAS talking about dead normal deathmatches) for certain reasons. This is idiotic. Very, very idiotic. Remember Elite Deathmatches are never played on giant maps, at least not by players who aren't insane or resistant against huge boredom. Worms Armageddon is the only 2D Worms which features giant maps, and only because Cybershadow and Deadcode decided to integrate it. I'm rather good in deathmatches which represent Worms. Worms is about deathmatches, most other stuff was thought of by the community and is only used in WA.
From what I've gathered from your post, you never played new Worms versions. Most schemes played in WA are dependend on its physics and most likely don't work used in WR. Yes, gameplay changed a lot, and more than four players might screw it.
Thanks for yer kind attention bud.

NAiL
16 Aug 2010, 19:01
It's interesting how people can judge a game based on three trailers that shows just fidgments of the whole gameplay.
Very impressive. Maybe you should wait for the demo before you doom the game.
Its funny that you don't realise that there are people who have regulary played this game for years, who know the physics inside out and can tell at a glance that the physics and everything else have been completely re-worked for the new game. Im not saying that this is a bad thing, but for SERIOUS wormers who keep this game alive online, who wanted a successor to Worms Armageddon, who want another great worms game to be able to play competatively on leagues, these changes are for the worse.
This is to be expected, its a new worms game after all and for the casual gamer this will be great. However, for EXPERIENCED players who have been playing this game both for fun and competatively for years, the fact that there is LESS customisation, the fact that you can only have 4 people in a game, the fact that the physics behave nowhere near as logically as in WA and all the other FACTS that have been released about the game only prove to us that we shouldn't be holding any high hopes for Reloaded.
We dont need to own the game in order to see this, its OBVIOUS at a glance!
Worms Armageddon is the best worms game there is hands down. The physics are perfect, and the customability allows for endless creativity and imagination. Every game since WA has been a spin off and lacks the quality and precision of WA. Let me make clear, I'm not saying that the other worms games are not fun to play, but for the SERIOUS wormer, Worms Armageddon is the only game to play, without a shadow of a doubt!
The people saying "how can you tell all this from a few trailers" are CASUAL gamers that don't understand WA as well as people who have regulary played it day in day out, year after year! From the trailers and facts released about the game, for the serious wormer its easy to deduce that WA will remain the only game they'll need to play.

Thurbo
16 Aug 2010, 19:14
Physics are only "imperfect" for you because you are used to Worms Armageddon. I feel lucky I kept playing Worms after Worms World Party and I'm perfectly used to new physics, not as you pitiable Worms Armageddon players. I mean, you could get used to new physics but you are kind of... ignorant, really. It's not that anything that works different than WA is bad. If you get used to it, you can play it properly.
Apart from that, WA physics are not even near as logical as WR physics...

Kalan
16 Aug 2010, 19:22
Apart from that, WA physics are not even near as logical as WR physics...
But games don't have to be logical. :confused:

NAiL
16 Aug 2010, 19:32
Physics are only "imperfect" for you because you are used to Worms Armageddon. I feel lucky I kept playing Worms after Worms World Party and I'm perfectly used to new physics, not as you pitiable Worms Armageddon players. I mean, you could get used to new physics but you are kind of... ignorant, really. It's not that anything that works different than WA is bad. If you get used to it, you can play it properly.
Apart from that, WA physics are not even near as logical as WR physics...
Its not about getting used to the new phsycis, its the fact that the new phsyics suck in comparison to the physics of wa, in the eyes of experienced WA players. We dont want to spend years learning the new phsycis system, the physics in WA are perfect, so why not leave them as they are?
Thrubro, ive never seen you on wormnet or around any of the leagues. I dont think your an avid Worms Armageddon player, you seem like somebody who likes the Worms franchise in general and plays casually. My opinions reflect the thoughts of the REGULAR Worms Armageddon players who play the game both for fun and competatively. From the facts already released about the game, this game is not for the competative wormer, its for the casual wormer.
You really shouldnt call me ignorant when its obvious that you are the ignorant one. You dont know enough about WA, you say dumb things like "big maps are bad for gameplay" and its a good thing that they havent been included in WR. Big maps are only bad for gameplay if the map sucks. If the map is well made, you'll have a great time on it just as you would a normal sized map.
You think its good that you can't have more than 4 players in a game. You say that the game "isnt designed for more than 4 players". Well if we take the example of a 6 worm deathmatch, why can't we play a 6 worm death match with 2 teams of 3 wormers as we can in WA? Its great fun playing 3v3 and 4v4 matches, why on earth would T17 deny us this very basic of functions?
Your reasoning doesnt add up, you seem to be a fanboy afraid to make criticisms even when there are very valid criticisms to be made about WR. And I assure you, I love worms more than you do. I wanted WR to be the best worms game ever, but unfortunately it isnt, and wont ever be.

Thurbo
16 Aug 2010, 20:10
But games don't have to be logical. :confused:
You are right, especially not if gameplay suffers from it. It's just that his point was WA physics were more logical which is not true ;)
Its not about getting used to the new phsycis, its the fact that the new phsyics suck in comparison to the physics of wa, in the eyes of experienced WA players. We dont want to spend years learning the new phsycis system, the physics in WA are perfect, so why not leave them as they are?
Thrubro, ive never seen you on wormnet or around any of the leagues. I dont think your an avid Worms Armageddon player, you seem like somebody who likes the Worms franchise in general and plays casually. My opinions reflect the thoughts of the REGULAR Worms Armageddon players who play the game both for fun and competatively. From the facts already released about the game, this game is not for the competative wormer, its for the casual wormer.
You really shouldnt call me ignorant when its obvious that you are the ignorant one. You dont know enough about WA, you say dumb things like "big maps are bad for gameplay" and its a good thing that they havent been included in WR. Big maps are only bad for gameplay if the map sucks. If the map is well made, you'll have a great time on it just as you would a normal sized map.
Well you don't know any other game than WA so you think if it doesn't work as in WA, it automatically sucks. Don't you think you are the ignorant one, then?
I know enough about WA. I'm playing it since 2001. I was a seven year old so with my lack of English knowledge and all I couldn't possibly take part of leagues or anything. I didn't know about all that community stuff, I only knew the game. That what Team17 actually sold us. I'm also not really interested in leagues, I'm playing Worms for fun (I thought I would never play Worms for fun again with OW2 release - rankings were screwed since you constantly lost points due to quitters, but I finally managed to reach spot one so I came over it :p)
You think its good that you can't have more than 4 players in a game. You say that the game "isnt designed for more than 4 players". Well if we take the example of a 6 worm deathmatch, why can't we play a 6 worm death match with 2 teams of 3 wormers as we can in WA? Its great fun playing 3v3 and 4v4 matches, why on earth would T17 deny us this very basic of functions?
Your reasoning doesnt add up, you seem to be a fanboy afraid to make criticisms even when there are very valid criticisms to be made about WR.
I don't know how you want to judge about that if you didn't ever play newer versions. None of your criticisms are valid since they refer to Worms Armageddon, not to Worms Reloaded.
And I assure you, I love worms more than you do. I wanted WR to be the best worms game ever, but unfortunately it isnt, and wont ever be.
Nah you love Worms Armageddon more than I do. It's difficult for me to concentrate my love on all Worms at the same time, currently I've fallen in love with WR :p If WBI releases I'll have to play that a lot too since the tactics idea apparently is an awesome one.
Btw, how mean of you to call everybody who doesn't only play WA a "causual" gamer. Maybe you are jealous because you can't manage to get a pro in other Worms games, or you are simply ignorant. Hooray for ignorance.

i<3worms:)
16 Aug 2010, 21:03
Reloaded will never replace Armageddon. The physics[most important part of the game for me] suck, map size is too small, plenty of weapons like the Pigeon not making it into the game, serioulsly, how could you leave the pigeon out of the game?? I am already sure I won't be getting this and will stick to the old gold WA.

NAiL
16 Aug 2010, 21:23
Btw, how mean of you to call everybody who doesn't only play WA a "causual" gamer. Maybe you are jealous because you can't manage to get a pro in other Worms games, or you are simply ignorant. Hooray for ignorance.
I havent seen you once in wormnet in the 4 years ive been playing WA. You're a casual Worms Armageddon player is what I meant to say, I dont know what other worms games you play.
Again how can you talk about ignorance, when your the one who says stupid, ignorant things like this:
No, really. Maps with with that size are unnecessary for this game and they're neither good for gameplay. It would absolutely be too much for newcomers, in fact only pro-ish players could play serious matches on such maps.
This is not just my opinion, you clearly display your ignorant nature by saying such stupid things. Any real Worms Armageddon player would want to see no limit to the map size in WR, just as they'd want to have at least the same number of people able to play online.
For some reason you disagree, your act like a fanboy and don't seem to be able to clearly see when something hasn't been very well thought out by the developers. We were told that this would be like a "sequel to Worms Armageddon", so do you not think that they should take into account the thoughts and opinions of people who are keeping WA alive into account when making WR?

CakeDoer
16 Aug 2010, 21:58
You are a completely ignorant person. Go home.
You call me a noob because I dislike giant maps for deathmatches (and I WAS talking about dead normal deathmatches) for certain reasons. This is idiotic. Very, very idiotic. Remember Elite Deathmatches are never played on giant maps, at least not by players who aren't insane or resistant against huge boredom. Worms Armageddon is the only 2D Worms which features giant maps, and only because Cybershadow and Deadcode decided to integrate it. I'm rather good in deathmatches which represent Worms. Worms is about deathmatches, most other stuff was thought of by the community and is only used in WA.
From what I've gathered from your post, you never played new Worms versions. Most schemes played in WA are dependend on its physics and most likely don't work used in WR. Yes, gameplay changed a lot, and more than four players might screw it.
Thanks for yer kind attention bud.
I'm very, very sorry for being so, so ignorant, but you never said "Huge maps won't work for deathmatches" in your first post. I'm not a complete retard, of course they won't work for deathmatches! How will 16 worms navigate in a multiple-display sized map? Some people want bigger maps for rope-oriented games, not the normal schemes.
I play deathmatches too, I've played the deathmatch mode on Worms Armageddon up to the Elite rank (I have never managed to win that last deathmatch). I haven't played any of the newer games because they're all on consoles I don't have. I've played all the 3D games and Open Warfare 2 and I was planning to get Battle Islands, though.
Again, sorry for being such an ignorant asshole to you and making such an invalid argument, oh so holy Thurbo.
One of the arguments I do find just plain stupid is people complaining about the physics. You can't determine that the physics suck if you haven't played the game!
Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to try the demo, but that's going to be the crucial part of whether or not I'm going to get this game.

CyberShadow
16 Aug 2010, 22:04
How will 16 worms navigate in a multiple-display sized map?
During the development of the 3.6.28.0 update (the one which added large maps), we played a lot of CTFs (http://worms2d.info/Capture_The_Flag) with alpha testers on maps up to 9 times the size of normal maps (http://gallery.thecybershadow.net/v/otherimages/Maps/BigMaps/CTF/) (3× on each axis).
It was incredibly fun.

CakeDoer
16 Aug 2010, 22:11
Meant that it would be a tad tedious on a regular intermediate scheme, but that does sound fun, CS. If you get your hands on a replay, maybe you can PM it to me.

DrMelon
16 Aug 2010, 22:44
While I think that 4 worms/4 teams is balanced and fair, I do think that custom map sizes could do with a little expansion - if not for the generator, then for the imported images. While absolutely giant maps (30000x30000) are a tad on the silly side of things, a big roperace is quite good to play on.

CyberShadow
16 Aug 2010, 23:23
Meant that it would be a tad tedious on a regular intermediate scheme, but that does sound fun, CS. If you get your hands on a replay, maybe you can PM it to me.
I don't think anyone would mind if I'd just post one here: link (http://dump.thecybershadow.net/faa3c9e3aa24111480018eb10bea4900/2007-01-19%2022.17.39%20%5BOnline%5D%20NotWorthy%2C%20Seit aCe%2C%20WyvSfX%2C%20Run%2C%20lld1sll-bonz%2C%20%40CyberShadow.WAgame)

Fluck
17 Aug 2010, 04:21
This discussion is really interesting. I especially enjoy the constant bickering cause I just love the hell out of conflict, but I think you guys might be better able to convey your perspective to each other if you weren't always calling each other ignorant...
It's very apparent that there are a lot of different ways people like to play worms. Thurbo, you don't like the idea of oversized maps and you enjoy the different flavours that worms games come in. You haven't been devoutly focused on Armageddon; that's completely acceptable and no one is trying to convince you to behave any other way. NAiL, you enjoy giant roperaces and you'd much rather be playing W:A than any of the other worms games. That's entirely your choice too.
The fundamental point that us big-map advocates are trying to get across is that we don't want people like Thurbo to be exposed to our ridiculous attempts at breaking the game, we just want the possibility there for ourselves.
Thurbo, I want you to know that I respect how you choose to play your game and I explicitly don't want to interfere with that. For us hardcore Armageddon lovers, though, we really just want to continue to explore the possibilities of the game.
As an example, this map I made last year is 3200 x 8000 pixels and combined with lots of banana bombs, 255 mines and infinite ropes, (http://imgur.com/jVyKZ.png) is the most fun my friends and I can have playing worms.
This 4 player 'castle forts' map is 8000 x 4000 and it harbours the kind of epic games that simply can't be replicated in a smaller area. (http://imgur.com/dHVgT.jpg)
It's those examples, massive rope races and simply pushing the boundaries that make custom maps in Armageddon exciting for us. We're just hopeful that we can still do things like this in reloaded.

Thurbo
17 Aug 2010, 15:53
lol that's really kind and settling. I'm surprised :p
@NAiL: I call myself Thurbo since 2008, before that time I had several other names, like "NTL1", I don't remember the others. It's still not that likely we ever met if you've been playing WA since just 4 years since I stopped playing it regularly around 2005/06, when I started playing 3D series intensively instead.
If I remember correctly, I actually played World Party more than WA, but who cares. It's almost the same game, apart from the beta updates.

hundreds
17 Aug 2010, 21:35
Hey guys. Aside from the pointless arguement about what should and shouldn't be in the game, I thought I'd make a comment more specific to the topic. Believe me, I am certainly one to wish for larger maps. I don't need 30000 pixels. But I would hope that the size limits get released a bit more. Even if it is doubled from where it's at now, it would be great.
Fluck, you and I think very much alike. If you look at our Next Gen maps on our website, they all utilize larger-than-the-original-worms-armageddon-sizes, and if they had to be made smaller, they would no doubt have some things cut out. :(
http://www.mnpp.net
They would still work... but trust me, they wouldn't be at their finest.

Shroom!
18 Aug 2010, 02:00
These days I only ever play on large maps. My friend gifted me Reloaded on Steam so if it turns out to be poo (I really hope not), then it'll be no loss to me and I'll just go back to Armageddon.

Fluck
18 Aug 2010, 06:25
Fluck, you and I think very much alike. If you look at our Next Gen maps on our website, they all utilize larger-than-the-original-worms-armageddon-sizes, and if they had to be made smaller, they would no doubt have some things cut out. :(
http://www.mnpp.net
They would still work... but trust me, they wouldn't be at their finest.Awww man, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I hadn't seen your site until now but I'm already downloading those maps. A lot of time and effort has clearly gone into making some really exciting and creative maps.
Unfortunately, it looks like literally most of them would be made redundant and unplayable in Reloaded technology... and even though I don't particularly expect to be able to copy maps straight from my Armageddon folder over to Reloaded, knowing that people won't even get an opportunity to make something similar without being severely limited in the scale is really disheartening.
Additionally, I'd like to say I'm sincerely sorry to everyone if I disrupted the discussion in the 'petition to increase worms' thread by being a bit of a dick to Thurbo. I was tired and getting frustrated and that's not an excuse but if I could go back in time I'd at least try to be a little more tactful. So a genuine sorry to the forum community if it was me who got that discussion shut down. I feel really terrible. Also, Thurbo, if you're reading this, I was being a stuck-up grammar nazi and criticising the way you said something, not what it was you said, and that in and of itself deserves an apology, too. Sorry.

Thurbo
18 Aug 2010, 15:38
Sure those maps were nice, but as they were designed for another game, there should rather be created new ones for Worms Reloaded.
Sometimes importing stuff to another game doesn't work, folks, even not if it's in the same series. I don't doubt we still got creative people for this :p
Additionally, I'd like to say I'm sincerely sorry to everyone if I disrupted the discussion in the 'petition to increase worms' thread by being a bit of a dick to Thurbo. I was tired and getting frustrated and that's not an excuse but if I could go back in time I'd at least try to be a little more tactful. So a genuine sorry to the forum community if it was me who got that discussion shut down. I feel really terrible. Also, Thurbo, if you're reading this, I was being a stuck-up grammar nazi and criticising the way you said something, not what it was you said, and that in and of itself deserves an apology, too. Sorry.
I don't get why you got in rage there, but since I'm a curious person I'd appreciate it if you told me via private messages ;)
PS: No it wasn't you, it's closed because of people who started using swearwords and insulting others. Don't worry.

franpa
19 Aug 2010, 06:02
It was actually closed because of people swearing at you and your empty skull. (we don't need to discuss why it was closed any more.)

zep57
19 Aug 2010, 10:31
the maps should be in 32 bits minimum and mnp I found your map rather pretty.
I recall my first map that is able wXw! but I am much improved since ...
http://wmdb.org/users/wormshero
Now I think of worms reloaded the maps should be bigger but not as great as Armageddon. I would say instead of 3000x3000 2000x2000 max or even see and not 2000x1000 or 1000x2000

MonkeyforaHead
21 Aug 2010, 10:48
To everyone whining, griping, moaning, and just generally throwing a tantrum that WR won't be exactly the same as W:A, I pose to you this question:
Why the hell are you even interested in (to the point of bickering over) a new game if you refuse to move beyond W:A?
It's clear that nothing will ever surpass W:A for you, and whatever. That's cool. W:A is indeed grand. Why don't you go play it some more instead of riding your high horse around lauding its absolute perfection and poo-pooing WR? We get it; it's not quite as fully featured. The physics have changed (gasp). They're working off of a completely new engine now, which is why stuff has changed. As mortifying a concept as it is, I welcome the challenge of getting used to a new engine with a new set of physics. Because it's new. Ideally its shortcomings can be rectified in time, and/or if a sequel comes around.
It could still turn out to kind of suck. I'm not denying that possibility. I'm just saying that most of you people are too got-dang clingy with W:A for your own good. The engine is severely outdated now and, for better or for worse, the torch has been passed.
Deal with it.

d3rd3vil
21 Aug 2010, 11:08
Well look at the trailers, the maps look amazing and they are huge!!!
I surely hope we can add large custom maps too, but even if not, the game has a lot of potential!
The most important things are:
1. Plz no bugs! Especially when playing online!
2. Plz no laggs etc. ^^
3. Hopefully the controls are good, the super sheep for example looks somehow spongy, we'll see!

Thurbo
21 Aug 2010, 13:40
I may have an empty skull (I'm quite sure yours is emptier), but there's a reason why I actually hate these threads. They assured me of one thing:
As soon as WR releases and I go online, people will start spamming chat boxes like this: "Why can't we play with 6 teams blah blah why are physics not as in WA blah Omg grenades/zooks/whatever differ from WA blah blah why are the bloody graphics better than in WA blah blah babble blather blah"
Thanks in advance for this you... dead annoying, WA loving people. I really hope I can enjoy this game without you getting on my nerves with all your random Worms-Reloaded-ain't-exactly-as-Worms-Armageddon complains circling me.

hundreds
21 Aug 2010, 15:02
Awww man, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I hadn't seen your site until now but I'm already downloading those maps. A lot of time and effort has clearly gone into making some really exciting and creative maps.
Unfortunately, it looks like literally most of them would be made redundant and unplayable in Reloaded technology... and even though I don't particularly expect to be able to copy maps straight from my Armageddon folder over to Reloaded, knowing that people won't even get an opportunity to make something similar without being severely limited in the scale is really disheartening.
Hmmmm... Fluck, I don't know how much I can say, but go check out the Reloaded Trailer 3 - the one that has the Landscape Editing features in it. Pay close attention and you might see something familiar in it. A certain boat maybe? A rather large building?
I'm not saying that I LOVE the new map sizes, but I can say they work to a certain extent. However, you are right in saying that they definitely limit your creativity. Bigger is not always better. But like zep57 said, a little bigger would be perfect. W:A fans can adapt to new situations. Hopefully as WR ages, it, too, will adapt to us with regular feature updates, etc.
Actually, I have been wanting to make this point for a while - not sure if someone else has already brought it up.
I know a lot of the greatest updates to W:A happened in the beta patches. But W:A 3.0 (the last supported version by T17) was an incredibly good game. It was certainly WAY more than what it had been when it was first released. It went two full version numbers from T17's end before they called it quits. Then, they actually made it open to DC and CS to make even more updates. That shows that (at least in the PC market - not really sure about consoles) T17 really is interested in satisfying PC gamers. Indirectly, it is because of T17 and their permission, that DC and CS even were allowed to make those changes that pretty much perfected this game.
My point here is this: Worms Reloaded is a huge gamble for them. They have a MUCH tougher market to please on the PC. They know it. They read all this stuff we talk about. It's a game that has accomplished a heck of a lot already and I am not talking out my butt on this one. It's not W:A. There are gonna be differences. But I'm betting that as they continue to support this game (and I am 100% positive that they will), it will evolve into a bigger, better game.
And I am not some fanboy or anything. I know that a level I am currently working on, Family Fued (http://www.mnpp.net/?p=47), as well as a couple that I have made in the past (specifically Pit of Carkoon (http://www.mnpp.net/?p=45)), simply won't work in the new environment. I am hoping and kinda expecting that the environment will change and then I will be able to continue development on that engine, but for now I just have to be patient.
I have seen the level of quality and polish in this game jump massively toward the better. It CAN and SHOULD get better - approaching W:A's greatness. We SHOULD and CAN adapt to things that won't change. But, keep an open mind and see this as a new option for Worms on the PC, instead of seeing it as a new wooden-sworded soldier pitted up against the great, platinum-armored giant that W:A has become over YEARS of maturing and shaping.

CakeDoer
21 Aug 2010, 22:51
Hate to be off topic but... man, those maps have an incredible amount of detail and they're amazing vector (I think?) work. You should consider getting a job as a level designer.

Thurbo
22 Aug 2010, 01:33
I'd like to know what programs are commonly used for these maps.

hundreds
22 Aug 2010, 19:40
Hate to be off topic but... man, those maps have an incredible amount of detail and they're amazing vector (I think?) work. You should consider getting a job as a level designer.
HINT HINT ----- TEAM17 ----- HINT HINT!!!
Thanks man. It's not just me though. There are now 3 of us in the group. And yeah I would say probably 99.999% vector.
@Thurbo: We used Fireworks and Illustrator.

Kalan
22 Aug 2010, 20:43
If the Titanic map works well in W:R (according to it's Gamescom demo) then maps like the Pit of Carkoon should work too.

Jayrid95
23 Aug 2010, 00:59
Yah, but they said it was heavily modified, and -based- on an Armageddon map. However, he also said that the editor could import custom png's as in Armageddon, so the older maps probably will work on Reloaded, and the modifications he meant were just stuff like the magnets and sentry guns.

hundreds
23 Aug 2010, 17:36
Who said what now??? I must have missed this Gamescom demo. OK, just watched it!
When he says heavily modified, I'm pretty sure he's talking about the game itself, with the inclusion of the magnets and such. The PNG itself was actually modified for WR as well. I completely redid most of the bitmapped furniture in favor of vector graphics for everything.
But without giving anything away (as I am under NDA), I can tell you that many of our MnP maps will work OK in the new size limitations. There would be a few things that would have to come out and such... just not enough room. For instance, Carkoon would have issues with the size. The W:A original is 2400 x 3000. Family Feud (in work) is bigger than that (length-wise).
Can I make it work? Sure............
But would it be my original vision? Not really. Again, I think patience here is the point. Who knows what plans Team17 has for postrelease. I know they supported W:A and I am sure they will do the same with WR.

Thurbo
23 Aug 2010, 19:30
We are now allowed to talk about the game (Team17 said on Steam). You may still not post any images but talking is alright ;)

Koenachtig
23 Aug 2010, 19:40
We are now allowed to talk about the game (Team17 said on Steam). You may still not post any images but talking is alright ;)
Are you sure?
Beta testers can talk about it on the Steam User's forum: Worms Reloaded.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396700

Kalan
23 Aug 2010, 20:20
Are you sure?
Beta testers can talk about it on the Steam User's forum: Worms Reloaded.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396700
Yeah but they can only talk on THAT forum and THAT forum alone.
So Beta testers can't reveal details here on T17 forums for some reason.

Cathulhu
23 Aug 2010, 21:43
Why should that be the case? Surely we can freely talk about that game even here. But i prefer the atmosphere in the Steam forums.

hundreds
23 Aug 2010, 22:01
I'm still in the beta this week. Some of the finishing touches are being made. I can't talk about it until after it is released. Changes are made every day.

MonkeyforaHead
24 Aug 2010, 08:38
Just a couple more days now anyway. Practically everyone I know seems to be getting it, I'm surprised at how the buzz is spreading, at least on a local scale.
SOON ALL SHALL BE MADE CLEAR.

hundreds
24 Aug 2010, 17:46
:) Yep! You're gonna love it.

vBulletin® v3.8.6, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.