W:A and the Pandora hand-held game console [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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b1llygo4t
2 Feb 2010, 07:01
All games seem to die at one point or another. The only thing keeping W:A alive is the (very small) community, the current part-time developers and of course, the anticipation of the former, for future developments from the latter.
the OpenPandora community has developers that are porting games over to it. the Pandora is built (primarily) for legacy games and homebrew. the first batch of 4000 have all been pre-ordered.
there is an app store being launched for it with both sold closed source and free open source games. there would be a trusted developer willing to do the port for free if they had permission and code. Hyperion Entertainment got the rights to port W:A back in the day.
W:A on the Pandora would promote sales for both and probably double the W:A community size.

Flargin
21 Feb 2010, 18:29
If people like CyberShadow have the source, then would it be possible for them to get permission from Team17 to make a port? Systems like the Pandora have the power, and if it has an application store (and the Pandora does), then the game could be purchased, NOT downloaded for free like other applications. I just think it would be very nice to have the original Worms Armageddon on the go!
If there is no way this is going to happen, then be blunt (but civil)!

CyberShadow
21 Feb 2010, 20:41
This has been discussed before in the context of a Mac port. Yes, but there is a lot of politics with game ports. It's not as easy as just programming a port - it has to be carefully planned by the developing company and publishers, etc. Not to mention that there may be various agreements regarding platforms with publishers/partners.

Flargin
21 Feb 2010, 20:54
I had a feeling you would say that. That's why I asked specifically about the Pandora. Since the project is completely open source, there is no need to get licensing for creating a game on the console. The project is run by only a few people, so they do not have the desire, nor the means, to make it a complicated process to get a commercial game on the Pandora. With open source consoles like the Pandora, you do not need a publisher, partner, or any political steps. Anyone can develop for the console if they want; no one needs to get permission with the Pandora, whether or not it is an application that costs money. The only people I can think of who would need to give their consent is Team17, and I don't see why they wouldn't let it happen, after all they did release the source to you, someone outside of the company.

CyberShadow
21 Feb 2010, 21:22
Team17 has stated earlier that they would probably be okay with a Linux port with W:A, so a Pandora port might be possible.

Flargin
21 Feb 2010, 23:11
So, then the only remaining question is who has the skills and is willing to make a port. If Team17 is okay with a port being made, then I'm sure plenty of people at GP32X are willing and able to do it, while keeping the original's and port's sources closed to the common people. Let me know if you speak to Team17 about it.
Thank You!:)

yakuza
23 Feb 2010, 11:53
W:A on the Pandora would promote sales for both and probably double the W:A community size.
Oh god, where are they handing these free marketing degrees?
Yes! Let's port WA to a handheld that is all about emulation and homebrew-tech for which you can't probably get effective market studies nor sales expectations because the market data is too fresh and underground.

CyberShadow
23 Feb 2010, 12:25
Actually,W:A on the Pandora would promote sales for both and probably double the W:A community size.I guess this would only be true if every Pandora owner would also buy a copy of W:A? :p

Flargin
24 Feb 2010, 00:06
There is a good chance that most Pandora owners will buy the game if it is ported. Most of the people who have ordered a Pandora live in Europe, where Worms Armageddon is very popular. Also, if the game gets great reviews on the Pandora, and I'm sure it will, then people who haven't heard about the game will probably buy it as well. There can only be so many GOOD standalone titles for an open source console, which is why it will be easy to make Worms Armageddon stand out. By standalone titles, I mean games that are not run via certain applications...;)

Wormetti
24 Feb 2010, 04:46
Mac/Linux/PS3/360/Wii/PSP/iPhone or any system more popular than Pandora would likely get a port first and they haven't, so Pandora seems like it would be very low priority.

CyberShadow
24 Feb 2010, 05:03
(Moving Pandora-related posts from two (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36816) threads (http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40259) into a single new thread)
If you're going to express an opinion that goes against everyone else's opinion, at least provide some arguments :)

Wormetti
24 Feb 2010, 05:18
I'm sure you could find a developer who would port it for free or royalties from sales (if any), so as long as they sign an NDA and can keep the source closed, I don't think Team17 has anything to lose.

CyberShadow
24 Feb 2010, 05:23
Porting W:A to SDL/OpenGL is part of our to-do list as part of Linux compatibility. (W:A 4.0 might be exclusively based on SDL.) Once the code is platform-independent, creating a Pandora port should be fairly simple (though there'll probably be some need for adaptation for gamepads etc.)

Flargin
25 Feb 2010, 02:57
@CyberShadow: Remember that the Pandora has a USB 2.0 port, meaning that you can plug keyboards/mice into the device.
I know there isn't a specific date for 4.0, but do you think it will be over a year until it is done?:eek:
@Wormetti: I don't think a port on the iPhone would work well at all. There would be way too much to adapt for the touch screen, where as the Pandora has a full, hardware keyboard, a USB port, and full hardware gaming controls. With the iPhone, you would have to make a virtual keyboard for communication, and a virtual control set, which wouldn't work well at all for the key aspects of W:A, like roping.
A Mac port has been considered, along with a Linux port. However, with the big names in the console world, it isn't going to be easy at all. The amount of licensing Team17 would have to go through for a port of such an old game on PS3, 360, PSP, and even the iPhone, would make it not worthwhile. The Pandora is completely open source, and is in no way run like more famous consoles. There wouldn't be any obtaining of licensing, finding producers, etc.
The Pandora is the best and easiest solution for Worms Armageddon on a hand-held. A version for Mac or Linux would be the only feasible ports for non-hand-held systems, because of the freedom people have to make software for them.
You would absolutely find people who would port the game for free. There are plenty of developers who just want a game ported to a device so it is available, not because they want to bank on it. Even if it were a game that had to be sold, I'm sure developers wouldn't care if they didn't get any royalty.

SgtFusion
25 Feb 2010, 03:14
I know there isn't a specific date for 4.0, but do you think it will be over a year until it is done?:eek:
It's been over a year and a half since the last Beta Update, so I don't think 4.0 will come out even that soon.

Flargin
25 Feb 2010, 04:29
Yeah, I figured. I don't think anything more is going to happen with the updates, honestly.
If a Pandora port is going to be made, it would have to be made with the current source.

SgtFusion
25 Feb 2010, 04:37
The "current source" would be what CyberShadow and Deadcode are working on at the moment (Beta Update 3.6.30.0 or so). Just because the updates are few and far between, it doesn't mean they have stopped working on them.

Explorer
25 Feb 2010, 13:07
I don't think a port on the iPhone would work well at all.
I guess you're too new to Team17's games. There's no need to port to iPhone anymore, Team17 has already done it. (Worms for iPhone)

robowurmz
25 Feb 2010, 13:31
While it would be nice to see W:A for something like the Pandora, I can't help but wonder if Cybershadow and Deadcode should devote time to a port before 4.0 is complete. When 4.0 is complete, it will very probably be much, much easier to port to other systems.
Funnily enough, an Amiga emulator works just fine on the Pandora - you could play Worms DC :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM2Z-N0_1_A&feature=player_embedded
And in this video, he is seen to be playing Superfrog (after Turrican), which is another Old T17 Game :D

Flargin
25 Feb 2010, 14:00
I guess you're too new to Team17's games. There's no need to port to iPhone anymore, Team17 has already done it. (Worms for iPhone)
I have been quite aware of that port, and that is an exception when it comes to the iPhone. What I am saying is that an unchanged Worms Armageddon on the iPhone wouldn't work. Adaptations that would be required to make it run on the iPhone wouldn't work well if we want an exact copy of Worms Armageddon.
I have been following Team17, since 1999. I only just joined these forums to get help and talk about this sort of thing.:)

Cueshark
25 Feb 2010, 21:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM2Z-N0_1_A&feature=player_embedded
And in this video, he is seen to be playing Superfrog (after Turrican), which is another Old T17 Game :D
Turrican 2!!!!! :<<<<

b1llygo4t
26 Feb 2010, 02:16
+1
alot of pandora owners would pay the 5 bucks for the game, especialy considering the online multiplayer suport. we will all be looking for some net play. everyone is very excited about the commercial games being ported. if a port is made i would hope it would be %100 compatable with the normal version and wormnet. i would love to play WA at the bar with my buddies (we use a ****e netbook).
as far as adapting the controls it would be pretty minimalistic. all the f-keys are right above the controls. the pandora will have remaping suport for specific apps out of the box (lol) from what i understand. use one of the joysticks as the mouse with left click as a trigger. i know most wormers frown upon the idea of using a controller to play but i fair well with a xbox cont. i hope this happens.
please oh please let this happen

CyberShadow
26 Feb 2010, 02:24
use one of the joysticks as the mouse with left click as a trigger.Doesn't the thing have a touchscreen?

Flargin
26 Feb 2010, 06:10
Doesn't the thing have a touchscreen?
Yes. The two functions I can think of for the touch screen are panning and clicking where you want air strike weapons to be dropped.
CyberShadow, if you think this can happen, then maybe you could speak with OpenPandora. I'm sure they would be very interested in a port of such a great commercial game. I'm only telling you what I think, but maybe they would be willing to provide a console to a developer for a low price, if not for free, if they are assured that a port will be made.
I understand that you think we should wait until 4.0 for a chance of a port, but please consider making it work sooner than that.;)

b1llygo4t
26 Feb 2010, 06:51
@ CS i was trying to avoid unfair advantages, but i see the point is mute

CyberShadow
26 Feb 2010, 07:59
Yes. The two functions I can think of for the touch screen are panning and clicking where you want air strike weapons to be dropped.It'd also make teleporting in Hysterias really easy :)
Panning is an interesting thought. It'd require some reprogramming, though.CyberShadow, if you think this can happen, then maybe you could speak with OpenPandora. I'm sure they would be very interested in a port of such a great commercial game. I'm only telling you what I think, but maybe they would be willing to provide a console to a developer for a low price, if not for free, if they are assured that a port will be made.Noted.I understand that you think we should wait until 4.0 for a chance of a port, but please consider making it work sooner than that.;)Or, we could just really lower our expectations for 4.0. (After all, it's taken over a year and a half for a regular Beta...)@ CS i was trying to avoid unfair advantages, but i see the point is muteYes, but having to use a joystick for mouse positioning is a hugely bigger disadvantage than having to use the mouse instead of a touchscreen.

robowurmz
26 Feb 2010, 14:34
Panning the camera could be done with the right-hand sticknub - that way, the touchscreen is freed up for clicking anywhere without encountering a panning zone, as it were.

bonz
26 Feb 2010, 22:18
Panning is an interesting thought
The Windows Mobile version of WWP uses the smart phone's touchscreen for panning the camera.
Works really nice and IMO is the most intuitive form of moving a camera in a game.

KRD
27 Feb 2010, 01:47
I only have three words two numbers and a mathematical symbol for you all: 800 × 480
Someone had to point it out. :rolleyes:

GreeN
27 Feb 2010, 04:20
The resolution sounds like it would work very well! That's over 2/5 of the map on the screen!

CyberShadow
27 Feb 2010, 06:31
I only have three words two numbers and a mathematical symbol for you all: 800 × 480
Yes, but we might actually have zooming at that point :D

b1llygo4t
3 Mar 2010, 01:35
hype (http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/52201-armageddon/)

Flargin
3 Mar 2010, 02:30
hype (http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?/topic/52201-armageddon/)
You beat me to it! But seriously, you guys can't ignore all the excitement over there.

Lazure
4 Mar 2010, 22:51
CyberShadow: I remember you mentioned in the past that W:A would likely get 32-bit color in 4.0. I'm assuming that since it might get ported to either OpenGL or SDL, that 32-bit color is still the case in 4.0?
If so, I have one important question:
- Will this mean we can use PNG maps with true color instead of only limited to 64/113 colors? Obviously, with the color #000000 being transparent, of course...
- Will this mean the game can finally be run windowed?
- Will this mean the game can be launched in our native resolution, and the 800x600 menu would just stretch to fill our native resolution?
And finally...
- Will this fix the problems with minimizing and/or alt-tabbing out of the game (where we cannot get W:A to restore itself afterwards)?
This is one big thing I'm hoping for in W:A's next updates, is the full color support with both the games and the user-created maps. :) If windowed mode comes with it, I would no longer need to run it in a virtual machine.

franpa
5 Mar 2010, 04:18
CyberShadow: I remember you mentioned in the past that W:A would likely get 32-bit color in 4.0. I'm assuming that since it might get ported to either OpenGL or SDL, that 32-bit color is still the case in 4.0?
If so, I have one important question:
- Will this mean we can use PNG maps with true color instead of only limited to 64/113 colors? Obviously, with the color #000000 being transparent, of course...
- Will this mean the game can finally be run windowed?
- Will this mean the game can be launched in our native resolution, and the 800x600 menu would just stretch to fill our native resolution?
And finally...
- Will this fix the problems with minimizing and/or alt-tabbing out of the game (where we cannot get W:A to restore itself afterwards)?
This is one big thing I'm hoping for in W:A's next updates, is the full color support with both the games and the user-created maps. :) If windowed mode comes with it, I would no longer need to run it in a virtual machine.
Yes to all of them but the next update is not going to be 4.0, however the next update should fix the Vista/Windows 7 minimize/restore crash and colour distortions amongst many other problems.

CyberShadow
5 Mar 2010, 08:00
Our initial plan for 4.0 was to rewrite most of the code (display, input, network, the frontend) from scratch and port the game engine to the new codebase, but that plan may have been over-ambitious.
The next long-delayed update (3.6.30.0) will mainly be a bugfix release. After that, if I find the time, I plan to start porting W:A to SDL, so that it can be run in a window and be easily ported to other platforms. Internal support for 32-bit will require some internal changes and may not come together with the SDL port.

michelstve
29 Mar 2010, 07:26
Hi
I am an animation developer and designer. And I had few games in past though they were not that much complex one, but I know game development. Can I take part in this project?? Though coding is not my zone but I can help in animations and designing..

DrMelon
31 Mar 2010, 11:36
Hi
I am an animation developer and designer. And I had few games in past though they were not that much complex one, but I know game development. Can I take part in this project?? Though coding is not my zone but I can help in animations and designing..
All the animations and graphics already exist, and have done since the 90's. Sorry.

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