[suggest] scheme preferences in png chunks [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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pisto
4 Aug 2007, 09:28
hi. since the maps have very different size, why not add a chunk in png maps (like the existing one that tells whether maps is cavern or not) that gives seconds/hazardous objects number, or even a complete scheme? in fact now i have to test every map i download to find out what's the best turn-time to play it.

SilPho
4 Aug 2007, 11:23
Adding that much extra data to a png may break it's functionality as an actual image, I'm not very up to date with file formats but I think that's a possibility.
Despite that however, I actually think it would be a brilliant asset, if every map comes with recommended scheme settings (that you can overrride if you wish) new players can learn how to play the maps properly and experienced players can save some time. This would save a lot of hassle with The Challenge Base.

pisto
4 Aug 2007, 19:58
yes, it is indeed possible, in fact that feature of pngs is used to store in maps som settings (http://worms2d.info/Colour_map#PNG_chunk).
i think it would be great if you can store a scheme and/or a single setting in a map, and provide also some tips to play it, maybe with a popup that shows when you select it.. so you load the scheme you want, then load the map, after you click some new button in the map menu and choose what setting to override... and this would be a way to store the number of worms somewhere, until the scheme file does not upgrade to 3.

yakuza
4 Aug 2007, 20:40
in fact now i have to test every map i download to find out what's the best turn-time to play it.
Okay, that's stupid.
Big maps are made for specific schemes, those schemes come with a turn time.
Problem solved.
Adding data to the jpg is also stupid, I think, unless there's logistic problems that stop devolopers from adding the map configuration to the frontend menus. I mean, with wKMagic, maps have barcodes that allowed mine and wind values that you couldn't configure in the frontend. Now, the mines thing is already obsolete because we can now change them in the options. So, there's really no point in all this, if a configuration value is worth tweaking it should go into the frontend, it makes no sense for it go in the map.

pisto
4 Aug 2007, 22:17
not stupid. there are giant/very little wxw.

franpa
5 Aug 2007, 04:09
Okay, that's stupid.
Big maps are made for specific schemes, those schemes come with a turn time.
Problem solved.
Adding data to the jpg is also stupid, I think, unless there's logistic problems that stop devolopers from adding the map configuration to the frontend menus. I mean, with wKMagic, maps have barcodes that allowed mine and wind values that you couldn't configure in the frontend. Now, the mines thing is already obsolete because we can now change them in the options. So, there's really no point in all this, if a configuration value is worth tweaking it should go into the frontend, it makes no sense for it go in the map.
PNG not JPG, he already suggested making it adjustible in the frontend but the settings are saved into the map itself.
why is there NO point in this? i would love the ability to set large maps to cavern or open... the rest of the options suggested i couldnt care less about.
@hurrel, i believe invalid data in the PNG chunk gets ignored by most pain editing programs, so adding game specific info to it would have no effect on opening it in a image editor.

SilPho
5 Aug 2007, 12:57
If adding the extra data doesn't break it, then I'm all for it.
The basic principle here as I understand it is a timesaving feature, would work particularly well for obscure game types like WFW or Board Game since you don't need separate schemes for each map in your schemes folder because the map has sorted it for you, obviously you can edit it, but the map has given you a starting point.
The complexity involved in coding this would probably be the drawback, but the feature itself is a great idea. (At least in my opinion).

pisto
5 Aug 2007, 13:33
i suggested it mainly because i think maps and schemes are strongly linked,it's a principle, you shouldnt select a map and then a scheme that match the map...
i dont think it's so complex to code, the only tricky problem is where to place a button (maybe in the map selection menu, that is a "fake" entry in the table of the maps) to show the new menu.
edit: store data in png is compatible with every image editor as fair as i know

robowurmz
5 Aug 2007, 14:31
I think it's a good idea to be honest. It would be cool to get maps with specified schemes so you don't have to download or make a scheme for it, like Co01's grenade challenges.etc.

KRD
5 Aug 2007, 14:45
why is there NO point in this? i would love the ability to set large maps to cavern or open... the rest of the options suggested i couldnt care less about.
Whether a map is cavern or an island already gets saved in the PNG chunk. Sheesh.
Personally I think this idea encourages playing on saved maps. Which is fine for most people, sure, but it just about vanquishes any possibility of all those Shopper people ever realising other schemes exist. And in the long run, that isn't a good thing for this community, since the variety will be gone. Not to mention those with the potential to be good at and like the balanced competitive schemes will never even find out Elite exists.
Linking schemes to maps wouldn't hurt for TCB, that's true enough. But all it would do is save you the work of downloading one file and selecting it before each game. Hardly worth the effort in my book, especially since it comes at the cost of the control I have over my Wormy files. The way it works now is clear and not broken in any way.
And if you don't like the sight of 52 [and counting] TCB schemes in the Schemes folder, do what I do and pester CS/DC about adding folder support for it!
Edit: Oh and I don't even want to think about all the map makers out there that have no idea what standard schemes look like. We'd just find ourselves drowning in an infinite pool of scheme variations.

franpa
5 Aug 2007, 15:49
folder support would be good, having all the default schemes listed in a "default schemes" sub folder would be great, becauese i hardly ever use them and its a pain scrolling to the bottom every time.

CyberShadow
5 Aug 2007, 15:50
Probably the hardest thing about adding this feature is figuring where to add the controls to the UI. Not that we're planning to do this for 3.x anyway, considering our much broader plans regarding 4.0. Namely, we've been thinking of something like "map packs", similar to missions, which are a package containing a map, scheme, scripts, and any other related resources. That said, schemes like WFW would play quite differently with the rules actively enforced by the game :D

Etho
5 Aug 2007, 17:47
Ideally, this idea would work best if there was an override for the map's scheme. Selecting the map would automatically load the scheme saved into it, but you could also choose a different one from your scheme list if you do not want to use the map's default one.

SilPho
5 Aug 2007, 18:20
Ideally, this idea would work best if there was an override for the map's scheme. Selecting the map would automatically load the scheme saved into it, but you could also choose a different one from your scheme list if you do not want to use the map's default one.
Oh definately, the map scheme would have to purely be a suggestion, otherwise players will be reluctant to try these out.
I do like the idea, although I'm sure there are other features in 4.0 we'll like to see.

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