Fiddler password [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Muzer
11 Aug 2006, 14:28
Is there a way to either view or remove an editing password of a fiddle? Some fiddles downloaded off wormsmart have passwords, and I would quite like to edit them! (Not steal them, just cahnge them a bit so some annoyances are gone). Is there any way to do that? I don't care i it envolves hex editing and going to a specific address. All I want is to either have a way to view or remove fiddler passwords.

Plasma
11 Aug 2006, 14:51
Flee! Leave now, before the others find out what you just said!

Muzer
11 Aug 2006, 15:50
W...t...f?

Ed Webb
11 Aug 2006, 15:52
I can contact them to see if they would give out the passwords for the fiddles, but first I want to get Fiddler and parts of Wormsmart up.
Making a password encrypts the file, so it can't be compressed, boosting the size of the fiddler pack considerably, and also Deadcode might not be able to access the fiddle to be used on Wormnet, so there are additional incentives to remove them.
It might be possible to remove the password by force, but I would leave that as a last resort, only if the file is old and the owner can't be contacted.
I might ask for passwords for newly submitted files, but if anyone doesn't want to do this, then their choice will be respected, and the file would remain password protected regardless.

Muzer
11 Aug 2006, 16:10
The first one I have seen like this is "Darth's Options.fsc". I stopped what I was doing when I got to that one, so I don't know if any more are protected.
EDIT: Also, I get that evil "access violation" error when trying to start any pwd protected fiddle, rendering them unusable. What's more, the error keeps coming back every second until I close fiddler.exe!

Lex
11 Aug 2006, 16:28
Just for curiosity's sake, what hash format is used for Fiddle passwords?

CyberShadow
12 Aug 2006, 05:12
Just for curiosity's sake, what hash format is used for Fiddle passwords?
The Fiddler doesn't hash passwords. Instead, it encrypts the entire file (except for the key) by combining the data with a pseudo-random number sequence, seeded by the key (which is generated randomly as the fiddle is saved).
So, theoretically, you should find the password in plain text (together with the unencrypted fiddle) in the Fiddler's memory after it was loaded.

Lex
12 Aug 2006, 09:27
/me giggles. Ah, CyberShadow; my hero.

CyberShadow
12 Aug 2006, 13:12
Not that big a feat when you have the source ;)

Ed Webb
12 Aug 2006, 13:53
That was fast. I didn't realise the passwords would be found in Fiddler's memory in plain text, took less than a minute to open and find them there.
I can decrypt the files and upload them again, if there are no objections. If there are any, I will take them into consideration.
On the same note, I can ask Fudge Boy to add additional protection to files if there's a need for it, and he could improve it from when he made the password protection six years ago.
I'm sure if Fudge were to secure them enough, even he wouldn't be able to decrypt any later files, though it wouldn't save the existing files from decryption.

CyberShadow
12 Aug 2006, 18:46
Ed,
I guess you didn't catch up on the latest news. Fudge Boy gave me the Fiddler's source code so I could send it to Deadcode. DC said that he will add in-game support for Fiddler schemes (allow loading them directly in-game) - thus, the Fiddler will have a role no more than an editor (that is, until a more comprehensible scheme format and an advanced in-game scheme editor will be made).
I have already suggested to Deadcode to allow me to update the Fiddler to work with the latest beta patches, however he asked me not to do it, since it'll only cause more chaos when he will add support for .fsc schemes to W:A.
http://wiki.thecybershadow.net/The_Fiddler
As for the passwords... it is impossible to make a fiddle (or any file/document, for that matter) read-only by protecting it with a password. If the Fiddler can read the data, it can be made to write the data back. Right now, I need to add but one line to the code and recompile the Fiddler to remove the password check completely. The least that can be done about this is not to store the password in plain text in memory (and use a hash or something like that) - however, in my opinion password-protected fiddles make no sense nowadays.

Ed Webb
12 Aug 2006, 21:21
Hey CyberShadow.
I heard that Fudge Boy gave you the source code to Fiddler, it's part of the reason why I came back, because of the hope that Deacode would also be able to get it and add support for Fiddler natively, so that Fiddler files could be played online.
I also heard that Deadcode didn't want you to distribute any versions of Fiddler, which I think is a shame. I've tried contacting him, but he has yet to send me a response.
My intentions were to contact him on his progress, and in the meanwhile get Fiddler 4.0 up, afterwards to contact you and Fudge Boy on developing Fiddler further.
The version he sent you, Fiddler 4.1 beta 3, was an experiment to get Fiddler seamlessly working with both W:A 3.0 and 3.5 (3.0.5.0). In his words:
Things have changed a little. I've decided (as hinted at in my last
email) that it's a bit silly working myself to death to get it working
on the new patch if there's a way of getting the old version to work
under XP and to coexist with the new version.
He said this because the sprite listing changed between the two versions of W:A, meaning that one sprite number in a fiddler scheme file would lead to different appearances in both versions, which meant backwards comapatability with previous fiddler files would be impossible if he wanted to support the later version.
Beta 3 was a good attempt, but it was unstable and sadly wasn't developed further. I feared that Deadcode would encounter the same problem above, though with the source codes of both W:A and Fiddler he might be able to find a solution.
There is still potential for Fiddler, if we can work and pool our knowledge and resources together, and there's a lot of potential left in the old program.

Muzer
14 Aug 2006, 09:25
How do you read plain text memory? I have a hex editor (XVI32 or something), if that's needed. Are there any other programs I need to download?

CyberShadow
14 Aug 2006, 16:06
You need a memory editor. Most memory searching tools have one (e.g. ArtMoney, TSearch, etc.)
Alternatively, use a debugger. OllyDbg is a good one.

Muzer
14 Aug 2006, 16:52
ArtMoney doesn't seem to display anything when I search for "unknown value"
and Tsearch I have no idea how to use
Is will now try OllyDbg
EDIT: The above program is even more confusing than Tsearch.

CyberShadow
14 Aug 2006, 17:03
Use the type "text" to locate the address at which the password is stored (with a fiddle you passworded yourself).
AFAIK it shouldn't change over different sessions.
And, yeah, you probably shouldn't mess with a debugger unless you knew what you were doing. I was just enumerating some options.

CyberShadow
14 Aug 2006, 17:04
Oh. I can write a program that will display the password of any fiddle and give it in good hands.

bonz
14 Aug 2006, 17:12
Oh. I can write a program that will display the password of any fiddle and give it in good hands.
I have just washed my hands with soap & warm water.
Is that good enough? :)

Muzer
14 Aug 2006, 17:31
I will never steal copyrighted work. I just want to know the pass so I can remove it and get the flippin' thing working!
So, yeah, when it's made, please PM me.

CyberShadow
14 Aug 2006, 18:45
Done.********************************************* *******************************

Muzer
14 Aug 2006, 19:00
Um... I get an error "failed to open *file here*". Is this because it is a fiddler <4.0 file?
If you download the archive Ed Webb posted, it's the "Darth's options" file.
Also, is it OK for the path/file to have spaces?

CyberShadow
14 Aug 2006, 19:05
OK, fixed.
Redownload the .zip.
(the difference in filesize is only 3 bytes, hehehe...)

Muzer
14 Aug 2006, 19:09
thanks a lot! Works now! I can finally play his fiddle!
EDIT: Ah, that's the problem! The water is set to yellow!

Muzer
14 Aug 2006, 20:44
Wow! This program saved my life :O Thanks, Cyber Shadow!

Lex
14 Aug 2006, 21:56
My hero! /me faints in CyberShadow's arms.
/me opens one eye and giggles.
Okay, maybe not, but I'm pretty darn happy CyberShadow came along. Now to get him the WA source.

Anne
15 Aug 2006, 08:27
Why oh why did I ever leave this game :p
I could probably contribute to this, I'm far better at computers than I was a few years ago, but it definitely looks like too many cooks spoils the broth. It was only a matter of time before a talented programmer came along and got together with James, and CS is probably THE guy for it. he's better than i was at any rate. (im not trying to sound egotistic, like i was the only tinkerer back in the day. i just dont remember who else was fascinated with fiddler like i was :()
I think I am back for a while. I like playing this game. And I wholeheartedly agree with Lex.
Meanwhile I'll keep doing what I seem to be good at, and work on my little VB utilities *cries* j/k...

CyberShadow
15 Aug 2006, 08:29
:D :D :D
wb.

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