I'm getting [very] fed up with this. [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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jb.jones
26 Sep 2007, 17:26
Here are the two general outcomes with my matches:
Option a) I win the match and lose a game completion percentage because my opponent quits
Option b) I lose the match and lose a game leaderboard point, because I do the right thing and stay in the game.
So here I am... with a 79% game completion score (never quitting a game myself), and a leaderboard score of 11 points (not my leaderboard rank).
I'm only playing one round matches too! I'm a long time worms player and this is not reflective of my performance.

Me!!!
26 Sep 2007, 20:06
Guess T17 learned nothing from W4: Mayhem's online games then...exactly the same thing there, except that it has no scores. So I guess it's even worse in OW 2.
Of course, you might as well add a feature to report players who repeatedly do this :P

AndrewTaylor
26 Sep 2007, 20:21
Guess T17 learned nothing from W4: Mayhem's online games then...
Team17 can't be expected to stop other people being jerks. This is what happens when you play with jerks. They do that. They'll quit if they're losing. That's what they do. What do you expect Team17 to do about that?

Alien King
26 Sep 2007, 20:23
What do you expect Team17 to do about that?
What can they do about it?
Remove online play? :rolleyes:

yakuza
26 Sep 2007, 20:26
Trust me, there's a lot of things that can be done, you just have to take a look at any other online game with rankings. It's very easy to blame the jerks, in the end, it's their fault, but please don't imply Team17 can't do anything about it, because you'd be surprised how easy it is. Actually, you might not be surprised at all, since you already know, blind support sucks.

Alien King
26 Sep 2007, 20:29
Well removing Rankings would be the most obvious and simple thing to do.
Not to mention the fact it would be very effective.
But aside from that...
If T17 provide a nice small feature to a game, it's not their fault people start acting like idiots.
You could simply arrange matches with people you do know who won't quit.

yakuza
26 Sep 2007, 20:36
Well removing Rankings would be the most obvious and simple thing to do.
Not to mention the fact it would be very effective.
But aside from that...
If T17 provide a nice small feature to a game, it's not their fault people start acting like idiots.
You could simply arrange matches with people you do know who won't quit.
I guess you don't understand the point of rankings. They're there for people that enjoy competition. Playing against your friend is not as good as going into wormnet and getting a quick game to increase your in game reputation, there's a bunch of people who play games for this, they train themselves and get better and better to the point they're satisfied with their skill compared to others, that's the whole principle behind ranking play, and the company that offers this service should be prepared to face a problem that is there, jerks, and if they are unable to their service will be considered flawed, that's why there's so many complaints.
If the penalty for quitting was increased, maybe adding a limit to quits, temporary bans concerning ranked games, there's a bunch of possibilities and there's very little I have seen done.

Alien King
26 Sep 2007, 20:39
My personal experience with public ranking systems in video games is not positive. Most people tend not to care and the few who do end up as idiots.
However, a simple solution would be to nullify* any match where anyone quits.
*only as far as rankings are concerned.
However, as I have not played WoW2, I can't really comment.

yakuza
26 Sep 2007, 20:45
If you nullify the ranking games when someone quits, that would mean everyone would quit when losing. It would make the service even worse, you might as well not offer it at all. Team17 are not to blame for the community's antics, but if they wanna offer a competitive environment, might as well make sure the people that play legit are able to enjoy it even when facing a jerk, just like it's done in every competitive game in the world, even sports, and the such.

asylumjim
26 Sep 2007, 22:18
Here are the two general outcomes with my matches:
Option a) I win the match and lose a game completion percentage because my opponent quits
Option b) I lose the match and lose a game leaderboard point, because I do the right thing and stay in the game.
So here I am... with a 79% game completion score (never quitting a game myself), and a leaderboard score of 11 points (not my leaderboard rank).
I'm only playing one round matches too! I'm a long time worms player and this is not reflective of my performance.
I hear you man, I'm at 66% completion because about 2/3's of the games I play my opponent either quits in the middle or right at the end of a game. There has only been 2 (and that includes when the game stalls out in "waiting for players")games that I was responsible for a disconnect and they were because my system froze.
Now I'm not one that gets all disappointed that I'm not on top the leader board but I dont like the completion % next to my name make it look like I'm a quitter. I agree that I should play people that I know wont quit but a the times that I play there isnt a whole lot of people around.

AndrewTaylor
26 Sep 2007, 23:32
Trust me, there's a lot of things that can be done, you just have to take a look at any other online game with rankings.
I've seen them, and they're full of jerks too.
If they can't quit the game, they'll refuse to light "ready" for the next round, or they'll adopt tactics that suck all the fun out and wait for you to get bored and quit, or they'll find a bug and exploit it, or they'll use cheat codes or they'll use cheat software or they'll ping you until you lag out or...
Why you people want to progress through the ranks to impress them I have no idea.

Slick
27 Sep 2007, 00:09
Do what I do. -Don't give a crap, and move on with your life.- After all, it's only a game. You don't have to play ranked matches... so... yeah.

yakuza
27 Sep 2007, 00:18
I've seen them, and they're full of jerks too.
If they can't quit the game, they'll refuse to light "ready" for the next round, or they'll adopt tactics that suck all the fun out and wait for you to get bored and quit
Put on a timer to light up, it's there on online worms and WWPaqua.
or they'll find a bug and exploit it, or they'll use cheat codes or they'll use cheat software or they'll ping you until you lag out or...
Bugs should be fixed and lagouts should not be much of a problem, the average quitter doesn't have a clue, I'm not saying the problem can be solved completely, banks can still be robbed but that doesn't mean there's no high security, something that is currently lacking in the ranking mode in WOW2, may it be because team17 have no time, funds, motivation, whatever, the system is still flawed.
Why you people want to progress through the ranks to impress them I have no idea.
They might set goals for themselves, who cares really, rankings are a great asset to the game.
Do what I do. -Don't give a crap, and move on with your life.- After all, it's only a game. You don't have to play ranked matches... so... yeah
This thread is about the people who do care, telling them not to simply because you don't won't seem like a very convincing argument to them.
It's very fine of you lot who seem to love to share with the rest that you're "above" all this competitive aspect to the game, that you don't have time for it etc, but you can't just deny the ranking system is done wrongly, and that it needs more work from the developers, yes, they might as well take it off like they did in WA and get angry fans for 1-2 years, they'll shut up in the end and learn to cope with it, there will be one or two whinning every couple of months, nothing too big, surely nothing to worry about, but if they're going to have ranks, and they're not going to stop jerks from abusing their system loopholes there's going to be lots of complaining, which is exactly what's happening. So please, I believe the people who demand a better ranking support are tired of listening to people who don't give a damn, and for once, they rather listen to someone that does, specially if it's someone from the staff, to tell them they're going to fix the problems they seem to have with the game, telling them that having that problem is optional just doesn't work. After all, the game is supposed to have a ranking system, and not a cheater ladder.

jb.jones
27 Sep 2007, 00:47
I'm not blaming Team17 here. I'm just having a whinge. The real problem is also that as my rate lowers due to other people quitting, the only people who will play me are those likely to quit... and it will start to snowball!
I do wonder why there couldn't have been something where at the beginning of play both players are docked a point automatically. Then when at the end of the match, the players recalibrate themselfes with the Team17 server, and depending on who is still there, and or won, they back get the point and aren't docked a play rate percentage. This would mean that if anyone the game prematurely and they are not there, they aren't given a chance to get that point, and the person still there is declared the defacto winner? Does this make sense?
Do what I do. -Don't give a crap, and move on with your life.- After all, it's only a game. You don't have to play ranked matches... so... yeah.
Don't discredit and my legitimate concern just because you seem to be apathetic about the issue.

jamjack
27 Sep 2007, 16:08
is there anyway someone can get rid of the quit button for online play because i am really getting annoyed with the quitters

Dunkar
27 Sep 2007, 16:12
It wouldn't matter even if you got rid of it. People would just flick the switch or turn the power off.

jb.jones
29 Sep 2007, 03:30
Yep, down to 69% now and still haven't quit a game.

Darkspark
29 Sep 2007, 10:32
if you're that hung onto rankings, I would say get the DS version. Near perfect online play implmentation, and hardly any quitters, simply because it takes more effort turning the DS on and off, than just waiting out the rest of a game. I've disconnected on some people by turning the DS off, but only in cases where they are intent on just dropping donkeys on me. If I don't find a game fun, no way am I going to play it.
That said, some blowtorch matches can be pretty long and boring, but I think anyone I've played those games with can vouch I've never quit...
The best games I thought would lead to a lot of people disconnecting from me; were those where we had few weapons and couldn't reach each other easily. I just trapped peoples worms strategically with a girder thus when it was their turn, they couldn't collect a crate. I thought this would annoy people, but eventually people see and recognise your playing style, and just do the same back to you. Or find ingenious ways around your tricks.

Wormetti
29 Sep 2007, 11:02
I've disconnected on some people by turning the DS off, but only in cases where they are intent on just dropping donkeys on me. If I don't find a game fun, no way am I going to play it.
Full Wormage shouldn't be in ranked game. There is actually some tiny amount of strategy involved (of course not as much as a normal game). On the very tall maps, the donkey will just explode before it smashes its way to the bottom of the map, so you can hide from it (at least for a few turns). The lightning can also make the game last slightly longer since as long as your worm doesn't go swimming, you can bring it back. It's mostly down to luck though, whoever has goes first or has the best worm placement at start wins.
On the blowtorch scheme, I just assume my opponent may have picked up a donkey in that last crate, so I try to keep my worms far apart.

jb.jones
29 Sep 2007, 14:51
68 percent.

jb.jones
29 Sep 2007, 16:09
Wait, now it seems that when they quit not only do I lose a percentage point, but also a leaderboard point. What is going on here? Can anyone confirm?
Now I am down to 62% and still haven't quit a game.
Is anyone else experiencing this?

CurtisB
30 Sep 2007, 15:31
Wait, now it seems that when they quit not only do I lose a percentage point, but also a leaderboard point. What is going on here? Can anyone confirm?
Now I am down to 62% and still haven't quit a game.
Is anyone else experiencing this?
Yes that has happened to me twice already, I have only started playing online today and I am already down to 84% and have not quit a single game. This is getting ridiculus, not only does my percentage go down but I also lose points when the other guy quits. Whats worse is that when I went back into the lobby the quitters percentage remained the same.
I like your above idea, kinda like giving a trusted third party your money for a bet, so no one can refuse to pay in the end, however if someone is losing, they would know that they're not going to get those points back any way so they still would still quit anyway, either way they lose those points, it would be better if you had to put in something like a deposit that doesn't go in the pot, say if both players put 2 points in the pot, each should put in 1 point deposit to be guaranteed back at the end, so that way if the loosing player stays in through to the end, they may lose their share of the pot but they will still get their deposit back, does that make sense?

AndrewTaylor
30 Sep 2007, 15:38
Yes that has happened to me twice already, I have only started playing online today and I am already down to 84% and have not quit a single game. This is getting ridiculus, not only does my percentage go down but I also lose points when the other guy quits. Whats worse is that when I went back into the lobby the quitters percentage remained the same.
They'd probably played a hundred games, and the quit was just pushing out another quit -- the percentage remained the same because the percentage of their last 100 games they'd quit didn't change. That's what's supposed to happen. It's not supposed to be a goes-up/goes-down reward/punishment system.
The leaderboard thing I don't know about.

kirbySS
30 Sep 2007, 17:24
WFC games seem to attact sore losers. I've had people quit on me in MPH, Mario Kart, hell, even Bleach.
I just wish these people were man enough to take a damn loss every now and then.

CurtisB
1 Oct 2007, 02:43
Well, its still doing it, theres really no point in me playing for points anymore, I either stay in the game and take the loss and lose a point or, get to the end in a winning position only to have the other player drop out and still lose a point, either way I end up with less points then when I went into the game.

810Damage
1 Oct 2007, 08:07
thats online for ya get over it

wave
1 Oct 2007, 09:47
They'd probably played a hundred games, and the quit was just pushing out another quit -- the percentage remained the same because the percentage of their last 100 games they'd quit didn't change. That's what's supposed to happen. It's not supposed to be a goes-up/goes-down reward/punishment system.
The leaderboard thing I don't know about.
so what exactly is the point of the % score thing?

AndrewTaylor
1 Oct 2007, 19:54
so what exactly is the point of the % score thing?
Er... it does what I just said it does.
If someone quite when they're losing then they'll end up (presuming everyone else does the same) with zero percent. That's a clue you shouldn't play them. If they never quit, and sometimes play people who don't quit (either because they're nice of because they're good players and win so don't want to quit) then they'll end up with a higher percentage.
If you play people with higher percentages then you'll more often get a full game.
What part of this is a problem for you?

wave
1 Oct 2007, 23:11
Er... it does what I just said it does.
If someone quite when they're losing then they'll end up (presuming everyone else does the same) with zero percent. That's a clue you shouldn't play them. If they never quit, and sometimes play people who don't quit (either because they're nice of because they're good players and win so don't want to quit) then they'll end up with a higher percentage.
If you play people with higher percentages then you'll more often get a full game.
What part of this is a problem for you?
alright alright, i was only wanting further clarification mr. moderater you. Shame this isn't explained in the manual, or is it? Anyway my score is already done to 50% (as i didn't realise what the consequences of quitting were at the beginning nor did i know that it ended the game for other people) also i didn't know that it was three rounds we had to play.
So what happens when you get to 0%, nothing right? How boring.

kirbySS
2 Oct 2007, 07:47
No offense, Wave, but it's common sense.

franpa
2 Oct 2007, 08:56
just make you dont lose points if you or your opponent quit....

wave
2 Oct 2007, 10:22
No offense, Wave, but it's common sense.
well yes extremely common, i thought i understood it corrcetly, although it seems there are other people who don't fully understand it.

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