Questions about the game and online play. [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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ChaosGhost
27 Jun 2007, 06:13
will we be allowed to play custom maps against other users online on the DS?
also, is wormnet going to be used for the wifi play? i am fed up with the other games online play, mario kart would have been so much better with a lobby system & chat with rooms etc..
is this game going to have that? i cant see why not, otherwise its just making it awkward.. even if it is easier to some people, there is no control over who you want to play except for the friend codes :rolleyes: what about chatting while in game ?
Btw, are utilities in this game? and how about donor cards? i liked those from WWP, but i prefer worms 2 still for gameplay out of all the other 2D worms games.

Spadge
27 Jun 2007, 07:59
Nintendo are VERY specific about what you do and how you do it on their console. We have a lot wider feature-set than Mario, but it's still via friends codes and stuff. There are no utilities in the game (like donor cards) but there's a ton of new stuff.

stupid_reg
27 Jun 2007, 17:49
Nintendo are VERY specific about what you do and how you do it on their console. We have a lot wider feature-set than Mario, but it's still via friends codes and stuff. There are no utilities in the game (like donor cards) but there's a ton of new stuff.
This is quite sad. It isn't *their* console that it will run on but *mine*. It isn't *their* game but *yours*. It seems the release delay is because of the Nintendo/Sony bureaucratic monopoly rather than any actual engineering issues.
Got to wonder why people go along with it. High risk development, I suppose.

Spadge
27 Jun 2007, 19:57
Actually it is their technology and tool-set, they can do as they wish. All developers and publishers have to abide by their development guidelines (same for Microsoft/Sony really).

ChaosGhost
27 Jun 2007, 20:40
Nintendo are too strict with their online stuff, i mean how are they helping by blocking communications with others? if people have wifi then they most likely have a pc to go on where any content is available.. nintendo are just avoiding it so they arent blamed for foul language or anything abusive.
Just my opinion anyway

Spadge
27 Jun 2007, 22:22
Because the average age group on nintendo platforms is (on average) much younger and family orientated.

ChaosGhost
28 Jun 2007, 00:34
Because the average age group on nintendo platforms is (on average) much younger and family orientated.
What about the PSP version?

Spadge
28 Jun 2007, 09:50
It's much more open in terms of online connectivity - this is reflected on the PSP (not to say that the DS is limited, just the PSP is more open - no friend-code requirements etc)

stupid_reg
29 Jun 2007, 08:09
Actually it is their technology and tool-set, they can do as they wish. All developers and publishers have to abide by their development guidelines (same for Microsoft/Sony really).
Yeah, But. Wasn't this kind of the state of the computing industry before the PC? And wasn't the PC kind of a good thing in this way. Or are there nasty patents involved here? The homebrew scene doesn't seem to do too badly in flaunting Nintendo, and AFAIK, reverse engineering to create a compatible product is perfectly legal and encouraged by European regulations (c.f., some DeCSS cases in Europe). It's not like gcc can't spew out ARM7/ARM9 code.
Sorry. I suppose this is horrendously off topic. I've just never really understood this. No more from me on this.
Ta.

Darkspark
29 Jun 2007, 17:06
There could easily be a lobby on Nintendo Games. A child young enough to understand how the friend code system works, is probably clever enough to post their friend code onto the internet. It took me ages to work out how to find/generate my friend code.
So instead of keeping people within their DS System, to get others to play with, in games such as animal crossing, they send them off to the internet in order to do so...where Nintendo have no control...
Very strange...
At least put text filters on the servers that text traffic is moving through, rather than avoid lobbies entirely...
That said, it benefits gameplay a lot more. Less talk = more game time.

ChaosGhost
30 Jun 2007, 11:56
spadge thanks for the helpful replies.
How many teams can play online? 4?
also, is there anything to stop people disconnecting before they lose? it would be really annoying to get no points for the scoreboard.
and will the psp version have a lobby? cant decide which one to get, psp is not really restricted.. on the other hand many more people have a ds than psp so probably wont have problems finding a game.
the bad thing about ds's search and play is that you cant choose to team up with a friend.

parsley
2 Jul 2007, 13:53
also, is there anything to stop people disconnecting before they lose? it would be really annoying to get no points for the scoreboard.
I can't comment on the DS, but here's a few things about the PSP:
Firstly, I've done my best to stop bad sportsmanship from adversely affecting the remaining players. If the host quits, then fine, the others will continue with a new, and hopefully better behaved, host (host migration).
Secondly, I wanted an unreliable player to be identifiable as such by the other players. In the game search results screen, each host's reliability rating is posted alongside his name. Likewise for each player in the lobby. It's up to you guys how you deal with players with abysmal reliability ratings.
Thirdly, I wanted aversion therapy. Ranking points are deducted every time a game is started. The only way to get them back is to finish the game. If you don't finish games, you'll quickly end up stuck at the bottom of the scoreboards.
Unfortunately, a game where one of the only two players doesn't finish has to be treated differently because it's mostly impossible to know which player's connection, etc., is at fault.

Wormetti
2 Jul 2007, 18:28
Sweet host migration! No other worms game has that to my knowledge. What happens if a player quits in a 2 player game (not by network error)?

parsley
3 Jul 2007, 10:13
Sweet host migration! No other worms game has that to my knowledge. What happens if a player quits in a 2 player game (not by network error)?
I make no distinction as to why a player didn't finish a game: turning off the PSP is the same as disconnecting the router is the same as quitting the game via the menu and so on. If you don't finish a game, you're a quitter.
For a two player game (this can be a four-player game where two players have quit), I cannot distinguish (mostly) which player caused the problem. There are two choices: let the quitter off Scot free or tar both players with the same brush. We discussed this at great length here and decided to go with the latter. Although this is definitely unfair on the innocent player, the fact is that, if you're a reliable player, it shouldn't significantly affect your reliability rating - what's one game out of one hundred? - but if you're an unreliable player, it'll mount up.

parsley
3 Jul 2007, 10:33
Nintendo are too strict with their online stuff, i mean how are they helping by blocking communications with others? if people have wifi then they most likely have a pc to go on where any content is available.. nintendo are just avoiding it so they arent blamed for foul language or anything abusive.
Just my opinion anyway
Nintendo's strategy is to expand the user market and bring those new users on-line.
Psychologically, on-line can be a very intimate experience and being abused or unwillingly presented with offensive material can be extremely disturbing and frightening.
Ninentdo's research identified the fear of this being a major hurdle to their strategy: I'd like to buy a games machine but I don't want to be abused so I can't go online so there's no point in buying Nintendo's hardware.
By strictly enforcing rules about what may be communicated to whom, they can provide that feeling of safety and eliminate one of the barriers to executing their strategy.
So, far from avoiding the issue, they've tackled it head on and fixed it in a way that suits their goals. Given Nintendo's record, I guess we should perhaps admire their success rather than disparage them for not doing exactly what we want?

Wormetti
3 Jul 2007, 15:09
For a two player game (this can be a four-player game where two players have quit), I cannot distinguish (mostly) which player caused the problem.
I thought you would be able to detect if they quit via the menu and only punish that player.

tal05
3 Jul 2007, 15:51
is worms open warfare available for pc?

Muzer
3 Jul 2007, 20:29
Surely the player's console which didn't quit would be able to detect the lost connection, and report back to the server saying (encrypted, obviously), that such and such a player disconnected, and that his reliability points should be taken out.

Luther
4 Jul 2007, 09:38
is worms open warfare available for pc?
No. Worms Open Warfare 2 isn't on PC either. PSP and DS only.

parsley
4 Jul 2007, 13:10
I thought you would be able to detect if they quit via the menu and only punish that player.
The menu quit is the only detectable case (hence the 'mostly').

parsley
4 Jul 2007, 13:12
Surely the player's console which didn't quit would be able to detect the lost connection, and report back to the server saying (encrypted, obviously), that such and such a player disconnected, and that his reliability points should be taken out.
Doesn't change the situation. Unfortunately, a connection has two ends... both ends detect the dropped connection... both ends report to the server... either the quitter gets off Scot free or both players get punished.
Also, allowing player A to modify player B's stats is a bit of a no-no (major hack vector).

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