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Ternon
26 Jun 2010, 01:33
I just finished the first mission of Alien Breed: Impact and I am very unpleasantly surprised how the character and weapon customization is so rudimentary to non-existent.
Where are different kinds of armor that change the look of your character?
Where are character attributes/skills/abilities so he can increase his accuracy and damage with certain types of weapons, being able to wear heavier armor/exoskeletons, unlocking new abilities with certain weapon types etc. etc.?
Only a SINGLE upgrade for each weapon?!WTF? Not even magazine sizes, or accuracy enhancement and different levels for each category?
Haven't you played Alien Shooter, Resident Evil 4, Mass Effect 2 and so on?
How could you omit so much?
You missed the whole point of what this game was suppose to be!
Even RTS like Dawn of War 2 is much more enjoyable to play because it has much more developed RPG elements.
Otherwise everything looks good, but you really ruined it by dumbing it down into oblivion.

Ternon
26 Jun 2010, 23:21
Also the lack of character customization(armor, skills, abilities) and weapon customization greatly reduces the replayability of the game, which was supposed to be the inherent structure of such a game so it is really puzzling how this stuff is missing.
And if alien creatures had rag doll physics and dismemberment it would be look and feel absolutely fantastic...take Killing Floor for example.
Animation of the character needs to be more fluid and detailed, reload animations are especially jerky.

Alien King
27 Jun 2010, 01:15
I wasn't aware AB was supposed to be an RPG.
I don't expect the typical RPG elements in my shooters; in fact I prefer it if they stay away.
You can't blame a game for not being something that it's not trying to be and doesn't advertise itself to be.

Ternon
27 Jun 2010, 01:37
I wasn't aware AB was supposed to be an RPG.
Are you saying that Dawn of War 2 and Resident Evil 4 and Borderlands are RPGs?
Didn't you notice I used the term "RPG elements"?
You have a reading comprehension issue.
Practically ever game out there in the last few years has some RPG elements because it deepens the gameplay and it extends replayability.
P.S.
Every post I make is under moderation review so be patient, I "posted" another post before yours but it still isn't up.

Alien King
27 Jun 2010, 12:58
Are you saying that Dawn of War 2 and Resident Evil 4 and Borderlands are RPGs?
Didn't you notice I used the term "RPG elements"?
You have a reading comprehension issue.
Practically ever game out there in the last few years has some RPG elements because it deepens the gameplay and it extends replayability.
P.S.
Every post I make is under moderation review so be patient, I "posted" another post before yours but it still isn't up.
I haven't played any of those, but:
DoWII - classifed as "Tactical role-playing game, Real-time tactics" and RTS by the Wikipedia. The official website doesn't appear to provide such a specific genre, but does mention it being RTS. Persistent leveling and unlockable abilities are mentioned on the features list, so it does advertise strong RPG elements.
Resident Evil 4 - well I haven't noticed anything with regards to character development other than the acquisition of guns to kill things (common to a lot of games, no?) but I can't comment on this one at all.
Borderlands - yes, this is an RPG. It's also a shooter, but it's an RPG. The developers have even termed it: "First Person Role Playing Shooter" (taken from the official website).
Alien Breed on the other hand is only described as an Arcade Shooter. A feature mentioned being able to upgrade weapons and you can do that - perhaps it's a little limited but that's it. It appears to me that you bought a shooter when you wanted an RPG.
Were you disappointed by the lack of customisation and stat points in Tomb Raider (Action-Adventure)? Did you play Half Life 2 (FPS) and complain that you couldn't change modify all of your weapons or that you didn't level up? Perhaps you did and if so it's just a strange an argument as complaining about the lack of RPG elements in a Top-Down Shooter.
You're complaining that the game isn't something it's not trying or even supposed to be. If the game advertised RPG elements then yes, you would have valid points, but it doesn't, so you don't.
RPG elements are not necessary to make a game good and replayable and depending on the person playing it, they probably aren't going to be sufficient either.
I just don't understand your, complaint. It's like complaining that an Alsatian is a Dog.

DrMelon
27 Jun 2010, 13:02
Have you ever played the original Alien Breed, OP? Oh, I thought not. You're probably too young.
Clearly you have no idea what Alien Breed is meant to be.

Esbern
27 Jun 2010, 13:10
Are you saying that Dawn of War 2 and Resident Evil 4 and Borderlands are RPGs?
lolololololololololoolol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1mvN6lU0oU&playnext_from=TL&videos=nJ3JLgeAtvA)...
Yes.

Ternon
27 Jun 2010, 23:51
It appears to me that you bought a shooter when you wanted an RPG.
Yes, expecting it to follow on the success of the exact same game type as Alien Shooter 1,2 which had about 10 skills, many different weapons and armor, and improve on that was stretching it...:rolleyes:
This is not some out of the box thinking here on my part, this type of game needs character and weapon customization to be replayable, and this was recognized by its predecessors, everyone expected this natural evolution that would greatly enhance the game.
Instead we got a single possible upgrade for each weapon(only 5 and I didn't find the need to use ionspike ONCE), they themselves being limited to only 3 types, not even including accuracy and magazine capacity.
They didn't even include the features from previous games like controlling a security robot from a console or piloting a mech yourself. All you get here is rare expensive sentry guns which you get to permanently expend on rare prefixed locations and their use is gone within 10 seconds.
And the only armor-hardened armor is visually lame, it ruins how the character looks so I don't even put it on.
This is a real problem, all the time you are playing you are thinking how much better and fun it would have been if it had character and weapon customization which is not so minuscule, but meaningful at the same time.
And how did they miss the ragdoll physics and dismemberment of bigger alien types, their death animations are very awkward and jerky, how did they miss this obvious opportunity when they have physics of moving debree all the time?

M3ntal
30 Jun 2010, 09:02
You missed the whole point of what this game was suppose to be!
the lack of character customization(armor, skills, abilities) and weapon customization greatly reduces the replayability of the game, which was supposed to be the inherent structure of such a game so it is really puzzling how this stuff is missing.
How is that even possible? How can anyone other than the game designer decide what the point of their game is and what its structure is supposed to be?
Practically ever game out there in the last few years has some RPG elements because it deepens the gameplay and it extends replayability.
this type of game needs character and weapon customization to be replayableWow, that's the first time i've heard someone complain about a game because it isn't the same as all the rest. I commend them for making the game their way rather than stealing someone elses game, adding shinier textures and a new gun, and releasing it as the next best seller like everyone else has been doing for the last 15 years.
Too many games require you to devote all your time and brainpower to them to have any satisfaction, there's not much in the way of recent games that you can just switch off after a long day and enjoy, or pick up for 10 minutes here and there. Sometimes i don't want to be thinking about what stats/upgrades/weapons/whatever i need to work on to kill this certain type of enemy, i just want a fire button and a rapid supply of things to use it on.

DrMelon
30 Jun 2010, 13:50
Ternon seems to think Alien Breed is related to Alien Shooter. Which it isn't.
Go play the original Alien Breed, Ternon, then decide if the game is missing the point of what it's trying to do.

Akuryou13
30 Jun 2010, 20:23
Yes, expecting it to follow on the success of the exact same game type as Alien Shooter 1,2 which had about 10 skills, many different weapons and armor, and improve on that was stretching it...:rolleyes:You know? It's the damnedest thing! now matter how many times I look through the website (http://www.sigma-team.net/) I just cannot seem to find Team17's logo anywhere. it's almost like it was being made by an entirely different company with an entirely different vision for an entirely different audience.
Worms doesn't have a levelling up system. Nor does it have skill customization. There are clones of worms that do, and yet Worms remains the most popular of its kind. maybe, just maybe, a game doesn't NEED to be based on an RPG to be good.
I know. crazy talk. I must be some sort of deranged hermit from a time long forgotten. Indulge my old hermit thoughts for a moment, though, and try to imagine if games like Braid had been convoluted with levelling up.
The more you add to something, the more you take away from what's already there. If you add a line in a drawing, you make the other lines in that drawing less important. If you add a feature to an automobile you make the other features less impressive. If you add a mechanic to a video game, you lessen the impact of the other mechanics. Less is more. That's a staple of good design. One of the first things you learn as a student of any sort of design.

Ternon
1 Jul 2010, 00:14
Wow, that's the first time i've heard someone complain about a game because it isn't the same as all the rest.
Really? You have heard complaints countless times how come some game is so lacking in features compared to other games, especially compared to the games of same type.
Framing that with "same as all the rest" is not fooling anyone, quit being so blatantly dishonest.
And what the hell are you on about anyway?
Would the game have been better if it had much greater character and weapon customization?
Yes, it quite apparently would because there is not much else going on for this type of game structure.
By not having it it is impoverished, gameplay less enjoyable and replayability down to almost zero.

piydek
2 Jul 2010, 18:03
Some players just don't get it. I guess it helps a lot having been around in 91' to understand the everlasting appeal of this kind of games.
The last thing I'd need in AB is "character customization". I'm all for clear and clean game-concepts. The funny thing is also that people that complain about character customization have most likely never even played a real RPG like Fallout 1 or 2 or Arcanum, not to mention older stuff. What they seem to want is the "RPG flavoring" which is most often just doll dress-up and a few gimmicks.

piydek
2 Jul 2010, 18:26
I'd like to add one more thing about relation of gameplay enjoyment and replayability. Once upon a time, gameplay of games not so dissimilar to alien breed were a joy to play directly by playing it. Playing itself of the game was enjoyable. It wasn't about finishing a game, seeing the next cinematic crap, having another aspect of the game never seen before unveil before your eyes just for the sake of being "interesting" or "new" etc. Now that's what i call great gameplay. AB:Impact has a lot of that kind of enjoyment of playing itself in it. Great gameplay doesn't need external elements slapped onto it to make the thing seem more enjoyable than it really is.

M3ntal
2 Jul 2010, 19:23
Really? You have heard complaints countless times how come some game is so lacking in features compared to other games, especially compared to the games of same type.It depends on whether you think not having those features can actually be a positive thing. I do. They've left out all the time consuming complicated stuff, meaning you can just get on with shooting stuff without having to worry about leveling, etc. It's fast paced no-nonsense action. The way to play it is to run through the whole lot shooting anything that gets in your way, not timidly take your time looking in every corner of every room for pickups and upgrades, that's a sure fire way to kill the adrenaline.
Framing that with "same as all the rest" is not fooling anyone, quit being so blatantly dishonest.
You were complaining about it not having the same RPG-like features as some other games you'd played, in particular the Alien Shooter games. I don't appreciate being called dishonest. At worst, i unintentionally misinterpreted what you meant by writing this, but i've had a look back and i don't see any other ways to interpret it.
And what the hell are you on about anyway?
Would the game have been better if it had much greater character and weapon customization?
No, i have Borderlands for that. I like it fine as an action shooter, i don't have any of those yet.

MtlAngelus
3 Jul 2010, 04:59
Ternon:
Some games=what you want.
Other games=arcade shooters, like Alien Breed:Impact.
Some other games=2d platformers.
That's not all tho. This might seem unlikely to you, but there are a lot of other different genres out there! FOR REAL MAN!
I once even played a game that was like, a puzzle game. HOW CRAZY IS THAT.
All joking aside, it seems your mistake is quite simple. You appear to think that this game is related to Alien Shooter, developed by Sigma Team, released glod knows when.
It is not, as pointed out before.
This game is related to the Alien Breed series, developed by Team17, of which the first game was apparently released in 1991, for the Amiga.
Next time do a little bit more research into what you're buying, so that you don't get disappointed again.

Ternon
3 Jul 2010, 14:04
Have you ever played the original Alien Breed, OP? Oh, I thought not. You're probably too young.
Clearly you have no idea what Alien Breed is meant to be.
This is a very silly thing to say since most likely 90% of people who bought the game have no idea of its history, not that it is relevant in any way.
The game should be improved by today's higher standards and expectations, not just visually upgraded.

SupSuper
4 Jul 2010, 16:22
Ignoring the whole "getting what you paid for" argument, I really don't see how a more advanced skill upgrade system would benefit the game. It's about being too busy trying to keep a horde of aliens off your ass by being as covered and careful as possible as you blast them off, not worrying about which upgrade I should spend my hard-earned credits and find the one better suited for whichever weapon might be most effective against the unknown upcoming hordes of generic aliens.
Regardless of how much time I decide to spend mulling around shops my odds are mostly the same, and I don't see how it adds replayability, if anything it makes the levels just drag on more (specially in multiplayer where you get your ass kicked quicker than you can think of whether you should've upgraded clip size or fire rate). There's no stats, no skills, no detailed alien weaknesses or weapon characteristics, no real point. It's an arcade shooter, you just point and shoot at things and hope they die before you do.

piydek
4 Jul 2010, 18:03
This is a very silly thing to say since most likely 90% of people who bought the game have no idea of its history, not that it is relevant in any way.
The game should be improved by today's higher standards and expectations, not just visually upgraded.
Don't agree with neither of your statements. I get the impression that most of AB:I players have played the originals. Almost all of the people I've interacted with over Steam have played the original. And i've talked with many.
2nd, these days have, if anything, lower standards and expectations of games in general. It's just that mostly people don't understand that "more |= more complex" or that "more |= better".

MtlAngelus
4 Jul 2010, 19:07
This is a very silly thing to say since most likely 90% of people who bought the game have no idea of its history, not that it is relevant in any way.
The game should be improved by today's higher standards and expectations, not just visually upgraded.
That's an absolutely idiotic statement you know. This game is just not aiming for that market, it's an arcade shooter. Different genres exist, and it's fine to stick to the ones you like, but complaining about how they are not like the genres you like is like complaining that water is wet or that fire is hot.
I rarely buy racing games, for example. I'm not gonna go off and complain to Turn 10 studios for not having the option of getting out of the car and shooting people in Forza 3 like you can in GTA, I'll just go and play GTA or one of it's many clones.

Ternon
5 Jul 2010, 00:26
I really don't see how a more advanced skill upgrade system would benefit the game. It's about being too busy trying to keep a horde of aliens off your ass by being as covered and careful as possible as you blast them off, not worrying about which upgrade I should spend my hard-earned credits and find the one better suited for whichever weapon might be most effective against the unknown upcoming hordes of generic aliens.
I can't believe the amount of foolishness in these comments, like Resident Evil 4, 5 never happened...also no one addressed how come there is ragdoll physics implemented on random debree but not one bigger aliens, neither dismemberment. It's one of the things that made Killing Floor so successful.

Akuryou13
5 Jul 2010, 03:50
I can't believe the amount of foolishness in these comments, like Resident Evil 4, 5 never happened...also no one addressed how come there is ragdoll physics implemented on random debree but not one bigger aliens, neither dismemberment. It's one of the things that made Killing Floor so successful.now you're just being idiotic on purpose. I'd just like to let you know you're not doing a good job of trolling. there are no lulz here.

piydek
5 Jul 2010, 07:38
I can't believe the amount of foolishness in these comments, like Resident Evil 4, 5 never happened...also no one addressed how come there is ragdoll physics implemented on random debree but not one bigger aliens, neither dismemberment. It's one of the things that made Killing Floor so successful.
Resident...wha? I mean, come on, it's getting really silly now :D. Maybe next you'll say that AB is behaving like Doom never existed (and we know Doom was an actually mega-relevant game, historically speaking, unlike certain Resident evil). So, how dare AB not behave like FPS and how does it dare being isometric :shock: :horror:.
Regarding the other thing - it's sad that - I'm sorry to say - but completely unimportant and I'd even allow myself to say "stupid" stuff like that can make a game successful. Says a lot about today's market for games. You know, the one having high expectations and standards you mentioned a few posts ago.

bonz
5 Jul 2010, 11:10
I have to agree totally with Ternon!
Yesterday I played my favourite game "Hello Kitty Online" on Facebook and I was totally disappointed that there was no dismemberment in the game, which is one of the things that made Killing Floor so successful.
Another good example:
Whenever I play "Solitaire" in Windows, I have to think why Microsoft where so foolish not to live up to today's standards and add some better skill system and character customization.
Really, the game only has 52 cards in 4 different suits - and it has been that way since Windows 3.00 in 1990!
Also, no dismemberment in "Solitaire", which is one of the things that made Killing Floor so successful.

DrMelon
5 Jul 2010, 14:05
Why doesn't Worms have dismemberment? It's one of the things that made Killing Floor so successful.
You know what else? I really wish I could level up in Super Mario Galaxy 2. Come on, I want to be able to upgrade my jump height and other RPG elements. Nintendo need to get with the times maaaaan.

MRSAMPLE
5 Jul 2010, 22:16
Ternon
Alien Breed, as DOOM (the 90s one wich I still play/mod) is an oldschool arcade game, designed for those people who like oldschool and simple games wich are easy to get in and enjoy.
RPG games are great, but not every game needs to be an RPG. If you want a simple arcade experience turn into a bunch of stats and "I played all day like work to raise a level, wow I'm great", maybe you lack some real life aproval/achievements so your looking for those in games.
If that's not the case... play alien shooter.

Ternon
7 Jul 2010, 18:50
Most of the comments here come down to this (http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm).
Dungeon Siege never happened, Space Siege never happened, Alien Shooter 1,2 never happened, Resident Evil 4 never happened.....
Wow, your pathetic attempts to rationalize complete lack of features is quite amazing, but besides weapon and character customization and better animations and rag doll physics and dismemberment for bigger creatures I also mentioned this-
They didn't even include the features from previous games like controlling a security robot from a console or piloting a mech yourself. All you get here is rare expensive sentry guns which you get to permanently expend on rare prefixed locations and their use is gone within 10 seconds.
And the only armor-hardened armor is visually lame, it ruins how the character looks so I don't even put it on.
This is a real problem, all the time you are playing you are thinking how much better and more fun it would have been if it had character and weapon customization
Entire format and structure of this game is mocking you by being so lacking in features that are inherently tethered to such type of a game, when every single similar game like it has many.
And even if that were not to the case what would one do to increase the replayability of the game? Maybe one of the many lacking features....
Stop being so dishonest.:(

Alien King
7 Jul 2010, 18:56
Stop being so dishonest.:(
Stop trolling.

Ternon
7 Jul 2010, 19:02
Stop trolling.
Start addressing the contents of my posts instead of indulging in frivolous obfuscating labels like "troll". You are not being cool by knowing that term, you are just being annoying and silly.

DrMelon
7 Jul 2010, 19:53
Start addressing the contents of my posts instead of indulging in frivolous obfuscating labels like "troll". You are not being cool by knowing that term, you are just being annoying and silly.
Stop trolling.
It's not one of the things that made Killing Floor so popular.
Not to mention, if you were really faced with a choice between harder armour or looks, what would you really pick? Food for thought.
inb4 he attempts to turn that last statement on me in some cack-handed excuse for rebuttal

MtlAngelus
7 Jul 2010, 22:30
Fail troll is fail, this thread should be closed.

MrBunsy
7 Jul 2010, 22:33
Wow, your pathetic attempts to rationalize complete lack of features is quite amazing
It's a cheap arcade game. I didn't much like it when I played it, but judging by the rest of the thread it's got a market. Certainly one of the reasons I liked HL2 so much (and have, *gasp* replayed it so much) was the lack of thinking required, I can just blitz through it and shoot crap, so I can see everyone else's points of view.
You want more features. Fair play. I don't see how that makes anyone who disagrees with you 'dishonest'.
Oh, and random bold text ftw.
edit: if this comes over as a bit harsh, meh. I've been writing polite tech support emails to americans all day...

SupSuper
7 Jul 2010, 23:14
Most of the comments here come down to this (http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm).
Dungeon Siege never happened, Space Siege never happened, Alien Shooter 1,2 never happened, Resident Evil 4 never happened.....Wait, what? So are you claiming that you yourself are using false analogies? Because so far the only valid example you've used as similar to Alien Breed is Alien Shooter, and you could say that Alien Shooter is like Alien Breed and Alien Shooter has RPG elements so Alien Breed should too, and I understand. But it's not a good argument because I could just as well pull lots of other similar arcade shooters that don't have RPG elements and we'd be just the same.
And Dawn of War 2, Borderlands, Mass Effect 2, Dungeon Siege, Space Siege, Resident Evil 4, Killing Floor, etc, etc, are in no way similar to Alien Breed at all aside from the fact that you "kill things", which you can't draw an analogy from. Most of those are actual RPGs and the rest use RPG elements for their own design reasons and not because it was "expected" or a "natural evolution" and they clearly advertised it proudly.
All in all you're not gonna prove your point just through shallow comparisons, you need actual gameplay-wise reasons on how RPG elements would greatly benefit and integrate into the style of the game, and how their lack instantly makes the game boring and terrible and etc.
Also:
Start addressing the contents of my posts instead of indulging in frivolous obfuscating labels like "troll". You are not being cool by knowing that term, you are just being annoying and silly.
You yourself started off the thread with the so-cool internet term "FAIL" so you're no better off yourself.

Akuryou13
7 Jul 2010, 23:43
All in all you're not gonna prove your point just through shallow comparisons, you need actual gameplay-wise reasons on how RPG elements would greatly benefit and integrate into the style of the game, and how their lack instantly makes the game boring and terrible and etc.All you have to do is play the game and you'll see exactly how RPG elements are required. I mean, they're not at present, so obviously they need to be. Character customization is the wave of the future and any game that doesn't include it is behind the times. Just look at every other game in recent memory. Nearly every game out there has begun including some form of character customization and the ones with the most in-depth iterations are often seen as the most interesting initially. Obviously there's a reason for that, and that reason is RPG elements add a level of depth and fun that isnt' there in games that don't use those elements. Every game designer on the planet can see that, who are any of you to say otherwise?
there. I made the nonsense argument for him. Can we lock the thread now?

MrBunsy
8 Jul 2010, 07:14
there. I made the nonsense argument for him. Can we lock the thread now?
But this is the first lively thread in ages!

MtlAngelus
9 Jul 2010, 01:59
But this is the first lively thread in ages!
Yes, but it's just a feed-the-troll frenzy. And it's not even a funny troll like Eggi, he's just your typical obvious troll arguing nonsense with people just to waste their time and get some "lulz".

TehWormy
12 Jul 2010, 00:35
Guys cool down
I tryed Alien Breed Impact Demo,it was good the graphics were good,i didn't like it when it was slow,the blood was good it's kinda like goo,the weapons are alright,the sound was good,the game i give is 8/10

Ternon
19 Jul 2010, 11:22
The more you add to something, the more you take away from what's already there.
Wow, what a vacuous rhetorical nonsense...

Akuryou13
19 Jul 2010, 14:41
Wow, what a vacuous rhetorical nonsense...glad I could help.

MrBunsy
19 Jul 2010, 17:44
Wow, what a vacuous rhetorical nonsense...
True to a degree though. Adding stuff to something will take the focus off what was already there.

Ternon
20 Jul 2010, 01:45
New free game from Valve Alien Swarm (http://store.steampowered.com/app/630/) has everything I was talking about in this topic and then some.
Every single things is better, graphics, character model, armor, weapons, animations, no fixed spot for sentry guns, customization, rag doll physics etc.etc.
LOL, it's like they made it exactly for me, but of course, it was obvious what was needed from this type of game and Alien Breed: Impact failed in almost every way to deliver it.

MtlAngelus
20 Jul 2010, 07:54
New free game from Valve Alien Swarm (http://store.steampowered.com/app/630/) has everything I was talking about in this topic and then some.
Every single things is better, graphics, character model, armor, weapons, animations, no fixed spot for sentry guns, customization, rag doll physics etc.etc.
LOL, it's like they made it exactly for me, but of course, it was obvious what was needed from this type of game and Alien Breed: Impact failed in almost every way to deliver it.
Good for you Stacy. Now gtfo.

DrMelon
20 Jul 2010, 10:18
I expected that post as soon as I heard about Alien Swarm.
Hell, I was surprised you didn't bring it up already, because it was a UT2k4 mod for a long time.

MrBunsy
20 Jul 2010, 18:07
obvious
It's that word again.

Ternon
21 Jul 2010, 04:30
I don't know anything about history of Alien Swarm nor should anybody care, I came across it accidentally a few days ago, but isn't it simply perfect that I was so thoroughly vindicated about every single thing I discussed in this topic?
Simply beautiful, things like this rarely happen in life.

MtlAngelus
21 Jul 2010, 05:43
I don't know anything about history of Alien Swarm nor should anybody care, I came across it accidentally a few days ago, but isn't it simply perfect that I was so thoroughly vindicated about every single thing I discussed in this topic?
Yeeeeaah I don't really see it. Your logic, does not compute.
But hey, if it keeps your stupid away from this forum, whatever.

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