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Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 04:55
As a WA fan and fairly good roper here are my thoughts. I have played the game 10 mins and its made me want to delete it already. I feel sorry for my mate who bought me this as a gift the other day. As its nothing like WA (feels more like a step back than forward) you just cant rope for life in this game cos the game is a PORT and PORT only which means for pc gamers WE HAVE BEEN ****ED!
First the rope. Sorry but its too heavy you cant use it to go up and over just swing little left and right. :(
Scale is horrid it doesnt scale as near as nice as 1920x1080 in WA.
Games menus and options are confusing and just sucks. Sorry but their are lots of areas in the menus that dont make sence, i mean im making a shoppa scheme in options and i duno for the life of me what the end ammo thing was gona be doing i was presuming it was effecting crates but then their is things greyed out like banana bomb etc.
Why couldnt they have made WA remade instead of porting the console ****? You do know team17 we pc users dont like ports of any kind.
Very dissapointed. Mainly as im a shoppa roper because this roping thing is just pants and these so called beta testers said that it was like WA HAHAHAHA yeah right. LIERS!
Plus the physics are far too heavy it needs to be alot lighter like in WA where things fly about.
When i start the game it minimizes constantly i have to trick it to full screen by clicking it a few times on the taskbar to get it to stay fullscreen and visable and stay there.
Also a quote from a friend who posted this somewhere else. Which i fully agree with.
Well as a seasoned WA player, I'll give my option:
WTF:
Why is there no decent server browser?
Where is shopper mode ?
Why are all the physics feeling like WA at 150% speed ? If I wanted that I'd play WA in speed mode. Roping is iffy.
Why on earth can't you look/scroll around the map during the 5 seconds ''are you ready'' mode ?
Why on earth can't you check your weapons menu during the other players turn ?
Why is there a 4 player limit?
Why is there a 4 worms per team limit, I'm used to playing 8v8 in WA occasionally ?
Why isn't there an option to use the ninja rope as much as you like, unlike the current 5 swings limit ?
Why can't you easily customize your own game rules, but instead have to choose from the rubbish standard scemes ?
WA is superior in every single way. It has more features, the interface is more polished, and the multiplayer is FAR more fun.
I can see how this can seem fun to people who haven't played worms in a gazillion years, for anyone who has played the 2009 version of WA or later and especially online a lot, I can't see how this will still be any fun, it's basically a cut down, dumbed down and sped up version with fancier effects.

zep57
26 Aug 2010, 06:17
+1 the best worms will be armageddon because la rope suck.... rope of casual for me fan de worms !! reloaded epic fail and t17 suck

D_Wormkill
26 Aug 2010, 07:33
As a WA fan and fairly good roper here are my thoughts. I have played the game 10 mins and its made me want to delete it already. I feel sorry for my mate who bought me this as a gift the other day. As its nothing like WA (feels more like a step back than forward) you just cant rope for life in this game cos the game is a PORT and PORT only which means for pc gamers WE HAVE BEEN ****ED!
First the rope. Sorry but its too heavy you cant use it to go up and over just swing little left and right. :(
Scale is horrid it doesnt scale as near as nice as 1920x1080 in WA.
Games menus and options are confusing and just sucks. Sorry but their are lots of areas in the menus that dont make sence, i mean im making a shoppa scheme in options and i duno for the life of me what the end ammo thing was gona be doing i was presuming it was effecting crates but then their is things greyed out like banana bomb etc.
Why couldnt they have made WA remade instead of porting the console ****? You do know team17 we pc users dont like ports of any kind.
Very dissapointed. Mainly as im a shoppa roper because this roping thing is just pants and these so called beta testers said that it was like WA HAHAHAHA yeah right. LIERS!
Plus the physics are far too heavy it needs to be alot lighter like in WA where things fly about.
When i start the game it minimizes constantly i have to trick it to full screen by clicking it a few times on the taskbar to get it to stay fullscreen and visable and stay there.
Also a quote from a friend who posted this somewhere else. Which i fully agree with.
I want just to discuss with you the part about roping. First of all, we never said it was like, but almost like. Moreover, do you know how the rope originally was? It was a complete mess.
People don't know the game will be constantly updated and someone thinks he must have all immediately. You can rope with that, you just need practice. I played with some players (not beta testers) that were learning to move fast with the rope.
I'm a noob roper in WA and I hardly reach to touch 4 walls in 30 seconds. Do you believe me if I say I can touch 5 walls here in less than 30 seconds? It's not to boast my actions, but to demonstrate you can do it, just being used to. Of course, if you're a WA lover at the extreme this is another thing, skeeter and you have all the rights (I played many years WA, but not the actual version).
EDIT: About scheme editor I absolutely agree with you. I, as beta tester, was unhappy of that. But stay sure the developers will improve it.
About your problem of minimizing....did you try alt+tab command? But it should be something in the options that allows you to get fullscreen.

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 08:02
Well on to the roping part.
Roping. It doesn't swing faster if i move left and right in swings compared to WA. It also is extremely hard to go over the rope because of the weight of the physics i believe. Also you cant knock worms for anything cos when you release the rope you go plonk like a heavy weight onto the surface.
If your a noob roper then i dont see how you can judge on roping. If it works for you thats fine mate but for me and ropers of similar or higher skill (i aint a pro but just good) then the differences are massive and i and maybe we as a whole of ropers expected to be able to rope just the same as we could in WA.
About the minimizing. It is kinda difficult when the game was minimizing and you couldn't actually do anything in the game as it was minimized on the taskbar i.e game isnt on the screen its just minimized to a tiny button. So changing fullscreen would be kinda difficult when u cant get in game but its running minimized.
Thanks for the reply. I hope i have been constructive enough in this post for you.

CakeDoer
26 Aug 2010, 08:36
The rope really is disappointing, and like you said, the whole game is heavier. Even if you somehow manage to build momentum on the rope, the game just doesn't care and makes you fall down.
Ah well. This is a direct port of W2:A with the Battle Pack to PC, anyway. Just think of it like playing just that.

Grabondall
26 Aug 2010, 08:41
I can't agree more. I also cried when I saw the campain mode. It's so ****ty compared to armageddons.
This is ten years later and we are getting something worst than armageddon. It's a HUGE slap in the face from Team 17.

Grabondall
26 Aug 2010, 08:48
I know how you feel. For me, I cried when I saw the new campain. It's so ****ty compared to armageddon.

Etho.
26 Aug 2010, 09:06
I want just to discuss with you the part about roping. First of all, we never said it was like, but almost like.
I think the main issue us W:A players have with the rope system Team17 has been using in every 2D worms game since WWP is simply that it does not allow us to perform any of the standard rope tricks.
It's not really an issue of the rope's speed, responsiveness, usefulness, or feeling (although these things are important too). We just can't do anything with it... it sucks. We can't arch, dragon, inlaw, outlaw, pump, pinball, spike, or even do a simple shadow with it.
These roping mechanics are very important for 2 reasons:
#1: They allow you to move around the landscape quickly and in ways you can't with the current roping system.
#2: Performing these tricks well is fun, it looks cool, requires skill, and some people feel that developing your own unique roping style is a form of art. It allows a lot of action in an otherwise slow moving... turn-based game and it opens up many different ways to play the game.
This is not a terrible game. It is a great game. It is just not nearly as good of a game as it could have been if Team17 made a bigger effort to design it better. Stop ignoring the requests of your community.

Pokkai
26 Aug 2010, 09:08
As a WA fan and fairly good roper here are my thoughts. I have played the game 10 mins and its made me want to delete it already. I feel sorry for my mate who bought me this as a gift the other day. As its nothing like WA (feels more like a step back than forward) you just cant rope for life in this game cos the game is a PORT and PORT only which means for pc gamers WE HAVE BEEN ****ED!
Yea pretty harsh world eh? Devs are truly ****ing PC users over. Don't you know that PC gaming has been dead for a long time now?
First the rope. Sorry but its too heavy you cant use it to go up and over just swing little left and right. :(
Yea the physics of it is abysmal. No momentum whatsoever >:(
Scale is horrid it doesnt scale as near as nice as 1920x1080 in WA.
I agree.
Games menus and options are confusing and just sucks. Sorry but their are lots of areas in the menus that dont make sence, i mean im making a shoppa scheme in options and i duno for the life of me what the end ammo thing was gona be doing i was presuming it was effecting crates but then their is things greyed out like banana bomb etc.
This was the one that bugged me the most...I mean....What were they thinking?
Why couldnt they have made WA remade instead of porting the console ****? You do know team17 we pc users dont like ports of any kind.
Money issues or greed. Pick your poison.
Very dissapointed. Mainly as im a shoppa roper because this roping thing is just pants and these so called beta testers said that it was like WA HAHAHAHA yeah right. LIERS!
You said that already.
Plus the physics are far too heavy it needs to be alot lighter like in WA where things fly about.
Yea most certainly.
When i start the game it minimizes constantly i have to trick it to full screen by clicking it a few times on the taskbar to get it to stay fullscreen and visable and stay there.
I have no problem minimizing. It's one of the rare things that trumps armageddon.

D_Wormkill
26 Aug 2010, 09:16
I think the main issue us W:A players have with the rope system Team17 has been using in every 2D worms game since WWP is simply that it does not allow us to perform any of the standard rope tricks.
It's not really an issue of the rope's speed, responsiveness, usefulness, or feeling (although these things are important too). We just can't do anything with it... it sucks. We can't arch, dragon, inlaw, outlaw, pump, pinball, spike, or even do a simple shadow with it.
These roping mechanics are very important for 2 reasons:
#1: They allow you to move around the landscape quickly and in ways you can't with the current roping system.
#2: Performing these tricks well is fun, it looks cool, requires skill, and some people feel that developing your own unique roping style is a form of art. It allows a lot of action in an otherwise slow moving... turn-based game and it opens up many different ways to play the game.
This is not a terrible game. It is a great game. It is just not nearly as good of a game as it could have been if Team17 made a bigger effort to design it better. Stop ignoring the requests of your community.
I feel something sarcastic! :p:p:p:p

Draconis
26 Aug 2010, 09:19
I think the main issue us W:A players have with the rope system Team17 has been using in every 2D worms game since WWP is simply that it does not allow us to perform any of the standard rope tricks.
It's not really an issue of the rope's speed, responsiveness, usefulness, or feeling (although these things are important too). We just can't do anything with it... it sucks. We can't arch, dragon, inlaw, outlaw, pump, pinball, spike, or even do a simple shadow with it.
These roping mechanics are very important for 2 reasons:
#1: They allow you to move around the landscape quickly and in ways you can't with the current roping system.
#2: Performing these tricks well is fun, it looks cool, requires skill, and some people feel that developing your own unique roping style is a form of art. It allows a lot of action in an otherwise slow moving... turn-based game and it opens up many different ways to play the game.
This is not a terrible game. It is a great game. It is just not nearly as good of a game as it could have been if Team17 made a bigger effort to design it better. Stop ignoring the requests of your community.
Hmm. I've often wondered something and I ask this not as a criticism but out of genuine interest in the opinion of "ropers" like yourself because I seem to have missed out on the heights of this not having been a part of the "Armageddon Community".
You see, when my friends and I started playing the original Worms all those years ago we used to set it so that the ninja rope was infinite and all we ever did was ninja rope over to each other and drop dynamite or something. In the present day we rarely use the ninja rope because we get more satisfaction from making great shots from a distance with grenades or whatever. This is what kind of concerns me when I see people asking Team 17 to make the ninja rope capable of all sorts, I worry that the essense and skill of the game will be compromised as a result. I mean don't get me wrong, I could do all sorts of stuff with the old ninja rope and did, but some people speak as if all they ever do is ninja rope. Just interested in your take on that.
Of course ultimately one of the best things about Worms is the ability to customise the game to your own tastes. Ideally, every taste should be accomodated for. They managed in the first four Worms games.

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 09:22
If ppl want to play a non rope game they can if ppl wana play rope modes they can. Should be a choice not a limitation.

CakeDoer
26 Aug 2010, 09:32
But Team17 prefer giving you limitations, not choices! You want to have a choice to play with 8 worms, well, you can't! You want to have a choice to play with huge maps - well, you can't!
A 1vs1 game lasts less than five minutes... and that's not fun at all.

D_Wormkill
26 Aug 2010, 09:43
But Team17 prefer giving you limitations, not choices! You want to have a choice to play with 8 worms, well, you can't! You want to have a choice to play with huge maps - well, you can't!
A 1vs1 game lasts less than five minutes... and that's not fun at all.
O_o? The last sentence is really false

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 10:15
But Team17 prefer giving you limitations, not choices! You want to have a choice to play with 8 worms, well, you can't! You want to have a choice to play with huge maps - well, you can't!
A 1vs1 game lasts less than five minutes... and that's not fun at all.
I know sucks dont it. Duno bout the 1v1 tho as i have only played the ai so far which is better than AI from WA as it uses stuff more but not rope. Was very surprised it used the chute to get to places but then on another turn it went and jumped on a mine lol. AI was easy so maybe was on purpose.

Darkspark
26 Aug 2010, 10:26
The rope. I'm impressed D Wormkill, because I can't touch 2 walls in 30 secs with the current rope and I haven't played W:A in a while, but I was quite good at roping.
The massive problem I see with the roping is that firstly, because everything is so BIG, from the landscape, to the worms, it is tricky to actually maneuver worms. The same with weapons such as super sheep. Very hard to maneuver due to limited turn radius.
Secondly, you cannot gain any momentum with the rope. I've noticed through playing that whilst the "swing" is about 75% there. As soon as you disconnect the rope and reconnect, you are stopped in your tracks and lose all inertia. You don't see spiderman judder to a halt when he shoots a webline 45 degrees in front of him. Here you do. Its as if when you reconnect the rope with the land, the roping animation starts from the beginning again as if you were stationary.
Thirdly, the worms are really heavy. Normally you swing by using either left and up, or right and up in combination. In Worms Reloaded, you can pretty much only swing using the left and right button on the keyboard. Adding up to the equation just tends to shorten your rope without actually propelling you anywhere.

DrMelon
26 Aug 2010, 10:33
You're implying that this is a sequel to Worms: Armageddon.
It isn't. It's a new game. Get that into your head. It's a different game. The rope serves its original purpose - to cross gaps and dangle off of ledges to make sneaky attacks, NOT to fly halfway across the globe.
The rope in WA was basically a free pass to any position on the map if you knew what to do. This is rather unbalanced.
As for the shopper gamemode, that's called Crazy Crates.
Besides, since the game is on Steam and developed excusively by Team17 (not by THQ or any other Third-Party developer) patches can be readily developed and deployed without having to consult a publisher, a distributor, a certifier, etc etc. They want to make a patch, they can do it.

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 10:44
Not really Drmelon. Team17 wants shoppa in heck there is a file in the game called Shopper and its a mode tho i duno why its not selectable, maybe its unfinished. But they did plan on having shoppa mode in the game and supporting it (also check steam page in the new things WR is suppose to have.
So it is meant to do much more than simply cross gaps and hang off ledges.
Edit - No crazycrates isnt shoppa mode its gona some similarities but no it isnt shoppa mode.

gimpymoo
26 Aug 2010, 10:50
I personally believe Team 17 have taken a giant dump over the entire Worms PC community.
Time will tell...
But this game needs a significant amount of time and money spent on it to make it anywhere near what is should have been.
Also, what is it with them dictating to us how many players because THEY think this number works best......? Give us the option and dedicated servers and let us decide that for ourselves.
Team 17 bleated on about how this was NOT a port but a serious PC version, LIES LIES LIES.
The UI is STUPID, PLAIN STUPID. So many faults with the UI it is laughable.
If you cant get the UI right, what chance does the game have?
Do we know who the main Dev lead was for this?
The least they could do is go on IRC or on here and host a live chat or something and explain whey they think the game is worth £15.

Darkspark
26 Aug 2010, 10:50
People are saying on the steam forums that the new rope is great and brings balance etc...but if you judge a success based not on what it has achieved "by accident" and what the developers was trying to achieve, then the rope does not serve it's correct purpose in it's present.

bonz
26 Aug 2010, 10:54
everything is so BIG, from the landscape, to the worms
Zooming? :rolleyes:

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 10:55
Thats because they are mostly newcomers or were never into roping games like shoppa mode.

DrMelon
26 Aug 2010, 10:56
Watching the lot of you squirm, fidget, and complain like a bunch of autistic children is somewhat amusing.
The game is balanced now. Deal with it.
Worms was always more about pulling off tricky shots than using a single utility. You're like some TF2 players and hats - they play the game just to get the hats, a completely inconsequential in-game item that does nothing more than be cosmetic. You're playing the game just centred around the rope.
Is it because you're unable to make artillery shots, and have to be right next to your opponent so that you can drop a grenade, so to ensure a kill? It's much more rewarding to pull off a difficult shot than to simply herp-a-derp yourself over there and stick the grenade up your opponent's backside.
Funnily enough, the newer players are more skilled than you "pro ropers" are. Once your only ability is taken away, you're helpless in a match. So instead of blaming your own lack of skill and adaptability, you blame the game and the developers.
God help you if you ever play Scorched Earth.

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 11:01
Sorry but where do you get off talking to players of the game, some for many years, like that?
Balanced how? What does a proper roping mechanic have to do with balance?
Not all of us like playing the default way we like other modes. Just because we don't play the ground artillery game doesn't mean we are poor at it. It just means we "prefer" our way of playing which is a very legit way to play. If roping and shoppa wasn't in WA then i don't think it would have survived for all this time. So their is something in the roping biz for worm games. Dont knock it till you have tried it for a bit.

DrMelon
26 Aug 2010, 11:16
Sorry but where do you get off talking to players of the game, some for many years, like that?
Balanced how? What does a proper roping mechanic have to do with balance?
Not all of us like playing the default way we like other modes. Just because we don't play the ground artillery game doesn't mean we are poor at it. It just means we "prefer" our way of playing which is a very legit way to play. If roping and shoppa wasn't in WA then i don't think it would have survived for all this time. So their is something in the roping biz for worm games. Dont knock it till you have tried it for a bit.
Where do I get off talking to a bunch of incompetent fools like that? Why, by having owned the original on Amiga oh so many years ago.
And it is balanced now because you can't move from one end of a map to the other, make an attack, and return all without being hurt once. That is unbalanced - a player who isn't skilled with the rope cannot stand against one who is. At all.
As for not knocking it until I've tried it, I played WA extensively for many years (and in fact, am part of the Project X team) and was foolish enough to forget that the rope is not central to the game. For at least three or four years I played only rope schemes, and I was as uptight as you lot are. Had this game arrived a few years ago, I would have been in the crowd bawling for justice and mercy that my rope had been nerfed into nothing more than a piece of string.
However, I saw that worms isn't about the rope, and that the rope schemes do in fact get boring after the six hundredth match, and that there is a lot more fun to be had in setting up tricky shots and managing your strategy well. Learning the strategy of friends and foes alike helps immensely in playing this way.

Thurbo
26 Aug 2010, 11:54
The rope doesn't work as in WA.
So relearn how to rope for this game would you? You can do almost exactly the same stuff with this rope as in WA, it just works differently.

MartimPare
26 Aug 2010, 12:04
I hate haters....
The Game is very good ^^
I like it
Good work team17!! I hope you can work on this game...still with very bugs and stuff
I believe if team17 work on this game can bea good game for many years

Psy-UK
26 Aug 2010, 12:06
Watching the lot of you squirm, fidget, and complain like a bunch of autistic children is somewhat amusing.
Nice.
You're like some TF2 players and hats - they play the game just to get the hats, a completely inconsequential in-game item that does nothing more than be cosmetic. You're playing the game just centred around the rope.
You said it yourself. Hats are cosmetic but the rope has gameplay implications so everybody has a right to ***** and moan when it clearly inferior to the rope in WA and is thus going to turn away a huge amount of players.

d3rd3vil
26 Aug 2010, 12:06
Lol yeah terrible game, worst gamer ever! Armageddon was so much better, just because of the rope! Stupid fags just play the game or dont! There are bugs and some weapon problems but thats all.
You can do a lot in this game and the graphics are great :)
For me a great game, but some bugs still exist of course :(

Skeeter
26 Aug 2010, 12:15
Armageddon was so much better, just because of the rope!
Erm no, it was better in every way except gfx.

Drury
26 Aug 2010, 12:36
I didn't buy it, but I have bought WA. But I never play rope schemes like shopper or rope race, only intermediate/elite/hysteria/BnA etc.
So should I buy it, or is it useless for me?

Katrio
26 Aug 2010, 14:08
Watching the lot of you squirm, fidget, and complain like a bunch of autistic children is somewhat amusing.
The game is balanced now. Deal with it.
Worms was always more about pulling off tricky shots than using a single utility. You're like some TF2 players and hats - they play the game just to get the hats, a completely inconsequential in-game item that does nothing more than be cosmetic. You're playing the game just centred around the rope.
Is it because you're unable to make artillery shots, and have to be right next to your opponent so that you can drop a grenade, so to ensure a kill? It's much more rewarding to pull off a difficult shot than to simply herp-a-derp yourself over there and stick the grenade up your opponent's backside.
Funnily enough, the newer players are more skilled than you "pro ropers" are. Once your only ability is taken away, you're helpless in a match. So instead of blaming your own lack of skill and adaptability, you blame the game and the developers.
God help you if you ever play Scorched Earth.
So you call a lucky noob, who got his worms spawned on top of the map, raining fire down on his opponent, killing him off without breaking a sweat no matter the "artillery skill" of the said opponent BALANCED?
And just because you were unable to grasp the basics of roping and got your ass handed to you every match does not mean that the roper that commenced the ass handling knows only how to rope and nothing else. Usually a competent roper can also blast your sorry ass from wherever you want.
That being said, enjoy your little WR escapade, i'm going home!

DrMelon
26 Aug 2010, 16:34
I didn't buy it, but I have bought WA. But I never play rope schemes like shopper or rope race, only intermediate/elite/hysteria/BnA etc.
So should I buy it, or is it useless for me?
You should buy it. It's really a fantastic game. Besides, the rope is fully usable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfPiZR3NEw

MrBlack
26 Aug 2010, 17:06
You should buy it. It's really a fantastic game. Besides, the rope is fully usable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfPiZR3NEw
Come on..
Obviously, you work for T17 or you've discovered Worms on your Iphone..

Shroom!
26 Aug 2010, 17:07
Sorry but where do you get off talking to players of the game, some for many years, like that?
Balanced how? What does a proper roping mechanic have to do with balance?
Not all of us like playing the default way we like other modes. Just because we don't play the ground artillery game doesn't mean we are poor at it. It just means we "prefer" our way of playing which is a very legit way to play. If roping and shoppa wasn't in WA then i don't think it would have survived for all this time. So their is something in the roping biz for worm games. Dont knock it till you have tried it for a bit.
I agree.
To those that say that the rope does it's purpose now: Bull****. Roping is an old tradition now and those of us that spent time trying to perfect the art feel let down by the new rope. I REALLY hope they do something about it in a patch.

Etho.
26 Aug 2010, 17:56
The rope in WA was basically a free pass to any position on the map if you knew what to do. This is rather unbalanced.
The game is balanced now. Deal with it.
Ok, you are missing a very important point. W:A has the option to adjust the power of the weapons in its scheme. This includes the ability to decrease the power of the rope.
We currently have 5 power settings for it (more options would be nice). We can control whether we want it to be infinite shot, or a single short shot which is useful for crossing a small gap in the land. We don't always play with infinite shot rope. Examples of this are popular games like Intermediate and Elite.
The game is only as balanced as it's scheme. I can make an unbalanced W:A scheme and I can make an unbalanced Worms Reloaded scheme. What I can't do... is make a Worms Reloaded scheme with as much variety and customization as a W:A scheme... nor can I control how powerful or useful the rope is in the Worms Reloaded scheme. :(
Oh yeah, I have one more rant to get out about this same topic. Team17 once again made it so that we cannot share our custom schemes with each other. This means we cannot standardize custom schemes in online games. So every host we play that is using a custom scheme, is very likely to have an unbalanced and unfamiliar feeling scheme. In W:A, the community as a whole slowly works at balancing standardize schemes by making minor adjustments to them... and having these either yay'd or nay'd by the people he plays with. Improvements to the scheme are kept, and then the new and improved scheme can be re-shared with everyone.

DrMelon
26 Aug 2010, 18:07
Interestingly enough, the rope power settings in WA didn't stop people from being able to leap from one end of a map to the other with relatively little effort. They just increased/decreased the angle limits and the amount of reswings.

Worm199
26 Aug 2010, 22:08
The rope is fine. Calling a game horrible for not having the same kind of rope like in W:A is just not right. You would be mad if they just updated W:A with better graphics anyway, so stop complaining. This game wasnt meant to be the ultimate hardcore worms game, but a great sequel for everyone.

gdfsgdfg
27 Aug 2010, 00:44
I don't really give a **** about roping but i wish they added more weapons and let the old one's too wormpot made all the fun for me.

NAiL
27 Aug 2010, 02:41
Ok, you are missing a very important point. W:A has the option to adjust the power of the weapons in its scheme. This includes the ability to decrease the power of the rope.
We currently have 5 power settings for it (more options would be nice). We can control whether we want it to be infinite shot, or a single short shot which is useful for crossing a small gap in the land. We don't always play with infinite shot rope. Examples of this are popular games like Intermediate and Elite.
The game is only as balanced as it's scheme. I can make an unbalanced W:A scheme and I can make an unbalanced Worms Reloaded scheme. What I can't do... is make a Worms Reloaded scheme with as much variety and customization as a W:A scheme... nor can I control how powerful or useful the rope is in the Worms Reloaded scheme. :(
Oh yeah, I have one more rant to get out about this same topic. Team17 once again made it so that we cannot share our custom schemes with each other. This means we cannot standardize custom schemes in online games. So every host we play that is using a custom scheme, is very likely to have an unbalanced and unfamiliar feeling scheme. In W:A, the community as a whole slowly works at balancing standardize schemes by making minor adjustments to them... and having these either yay'd or nay'd by the people he plays with. Improvements to the scheme are kept, and then the new and improved scheme can be re-shared with everyone.
Great post Etho, Team17 seem to have no common sense.
What is the most popular and most actively played Worms game of all time?
Worms Armageddon. So do Team17 consider the reasons why Worms Armageddon is the most successful Woms game of all time and implement them into their new game? No, they don't. They REDUCE customability, and they REDUCE the possible ways in which we can play and enjoy the game. They make the game significantly worse than the most popular Worms title.
I could forgive Team17 if they were simply ignorant to the ways in which their most popular title has evolved over the years, but there is thread after thread of complaints and suggestions about Reloaded on a number of their forums. For some reason Team17 have chosen to completely IGNORE all of the suggestions and feedback from seasoned fans of the series. The thing is, Team17 have looked at how Worms Armageddon has evolved and have incorporated some elements in Reloaded. Take the rope racing and shopper "modes" they've included. They've obviously realised that "roping" is popular amongst the community, and have thought it good enough to include in Reloaded. The only thing being is that the new roping phyics completely kill roping. If you cant hold momentum, how are you meant to keep up speed?
Dont tell me to stop whining about rope, poor roping physics is the tip of the iceberg, there are faults all over the place. Just check the threads on this forum.
There are two people who have worked really hard on creating updates for WA, ultimately providing us with near endless possibilities as to how we can play, create, and enjoy the game. It makes me wonder, how much contact to DC and CS actually have with Team17 because these people understand the ways in which WA is now played and what makes it the most popular of all worms titles. I fail to see why Team17 would look at what makes WA the most popular of all the Worms games, enough to use elements in WR, yet make the game significantly worse than WA. I fail to see how Team17 could overlook all of the requests and complaints from the BIGGEST worms community there is....
To people who say "Stop whining, if you dont like it stick to WA".
In two years what will be the most played Worms game ever? Worms Armgeddon. The fact is, Worms Armageddon will be the most played Worms game ever until Team17 make a game that is BETTER than Worms Armageddon. They would make a whole lot more money if they simply listened to what the players want, and looked into exactly why WA is the most popular of all Worms games. Instead they waste the opportunity and produce a game that is enjoyable, yet also just another step backward. We dont care, we've got WA to play and for the time being two dedicated people upgrading the game. It is however very dissapointing to say the least.

Drury
27 Aug 2010, 06:27
Well, let's just imagine that there wasn't any rope in Worms series. Ever.
No, that's just too stupid. Really, does rope ruin this game THAT much? Do you "fans" need rope to play a Worms game? Rope is not the main element of this game. It's just addition. And Team17 is thinking that way too. IMO they could completely remove rope. We have teleports and jetpacks, so why do we need it?
So, if you want to play rope schemes, ask T17 to make some "Ninja's" game. Worms fight with funny weapons, ninja's rope.

futurama42
27 Aug 2010, 06:34
While I don't know about the roping mechanics, I have been playing this series for a long time, and while this new Worms is fun, it is definitely a step back.
I really feel Team 17 could make this game much better if they simply updated a few things, like the bad interface, the random map maker that can't make more then 1 bridge per level, the online system, the player count as many as 8 worms again, and the ability to make schemes where you can place your own people in the game.
The menus would be a lot better if they were drop down boxes again instead of the arrows.

NAiL
27 Aug 2010, 06:39
No, that's just too stupid. Really, does rope ruin this game THAT much? Do you "fans" need rope to play a Worms game? Rope is not the main element of this game. It's just addition. And Team17 is thinking that way too. IMO they could completely remove rope. We have teleports and jetpacks, so why do we need it?
Considering 50% of the games hosted in Wormnet revolve around roping, it makes perfect sense to incorporate a system of roping as good as, if not better than what we have in Worms Armageddon, the most popular of all Worms games.
Team17 are not thinking "that way too". Team17 obviously recognise the popularity of the ninja rope, we know this by the fact that rope race and other "modes" have been included (to an extent) in WR. However have ruined the roping experience.
Let me say again, the roping physics are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the flaws of WR. As ive said before, this game has taken a step backward with regards to every single element of the game. For ropers this game is worse, for default players the game is worse.

bonz
27 Aug 2010, 10:22
In two years what will be the most played Worms game ever? Worms Armgeddon.
Well, if you know this with such a certainty, why even bother whining and posting, instead of sticking to WA? :rolleyes:

CakeDoer
27 Aug 2010, 11:05
Because we want to make Team17 realize what we've been talking about all the time and make a game that will appeal to ropers, regular players, seasoned players and new players, thus earning Team17 more profit (which they aren't making off Armageddon).

NAiL
27 Aug 2010, 11:18
Well, if you know this with such a certainty, why even bother whining and posting, instead of sticking to WA? :rolleyes:
All you do is tell me to stop whining when all ive done is point out obvious criticims and expressed my understandable dissapointment with the way in which the Worms series has gone.
You also dont seem to understand that I have been correcting people on their incorrect thoughts on how WA is played today.
Havent you seen some of the things people are saying, that are without a shadow of a doubt just plain wrong?
Things like "99% of schemes in WA require the ninja rope". Things like "WA players would suck at anything without a rope"... these statements are not true, is it so wrong of me to correct people about it?
What have you added to the conversation? Nothing excpet telling me to "stop whining" when all ive done is point out obvious facts that you cant argue with.

Fluffy.is
27 Aug 2010, 11:27
Where do I get off talking to a bunch of incompetent fools like that? Why, by having owned the original on Amiga oh so many years ago.
And it is balanced now because you can't move from one end of a map to the other, make an attack, and return all without being hurt once. That is unbalanced - a player who isn't skilled with the rope cannot stand against one who is. At all.
As for not knocking it until I've tried it, I played WA extensively for many years (and in fact, am part of the Project X team) and was foolish enough to forget that the rope is not central to the game. For at least three or four years I played only rope schemes, and I was as uptight as you lot are. Had this game arrived a few years ago, I would have been in the crowd bawling for justice and mercy that my rope had been nerfed into nothing more than a piece of string.
However, I saw that worms isn't about the rope, and that the rope schemes do in fact get boring after the six hundredth match, and that there is a lot more fun to be had in setting up tricky shots and managing your strategy well. Learning the strategy of friends and foes alike helps immensely in playing this way.
DrMelon, you do make an excellent point that beginners will stand a better chance at multiplayer matches, however, for the rest of us that already know what worms is like and have played it for many years, there should be an option of having a "super rope mode". I think this is what the developers did wrong, not that the rope is nerfed by default, but that there isn't anything besides it's default mode.
I also feel betrayed by the production quality, you would think that for a series that was as popular as worms they would put more effort into a new game that is supposed to tickle our nostalgia. I'm not saying that the game is in all bad, but it just isn't ready for release yet in my opinion.

Husk
27 Aug 2010, 13:50
oh yea, we hav played worms in wormnet for 5+ years, some even 10 years, and only thing we improved at was in roping? makes sense lol, no. of course we also improved our bng skills, why do i even need to write this...
its not the rope that makes w:r ****ty, its all those things nail and ehto alrdy explained, but u guys r too blind to see x;

bonz
27 Aug 2010, 13:51
Havent you seen some of the things people are saying, that are without a shadow of a doubt just plain wrong?
Things like "99% of schemes in WA require the ninja rope". Things like "WA players would suck at anything without a rope"... these statements are not true, is it so wrong of me to correct people about it?
I know that these are not true. I've been playing WA long enough to know that.
But it's a fact that if you're not playing in a league, you see an overwhelming majority of rope-based games whenever you want to play a random game online.
What have you added to the conversation? Nothing excpet telling me to "stop whining" when all ive done is point out obvious facts that you cant argue with.
Here on the forum nothing, but me and the other beta testers have been reporting a crap-load of these bugs, issues and complaints to T17 during the beta and even beyond.

DrMelon
27 Aug 2010, 13:52
NAiL, don't bother arguing with Bonz. He is far superior in his knowledge of the games, inside and out.

bonz
27 Aug 2010, 14:13
NAiL, don't bother arguing with Bonz. He is far superior in his knowledge of the games, inside and out.
I hope that this is supposed to be sarcasm, because I certainly don't know everything. :-/
Deadcode and CyberShadow are the semi-Wormgod and quarter-Wormgod™, respectively, BTW.

GamingMill
27 Aug 2010, 16:46
My main concern with all of these complaints about Worms Reloaded is this: it's NOT Worms Armageddon - this is a new game! Why do you expect it to be the same as WA?! Why not put your heads into gear before hating? Come on, it makes sense when you think about it and I'll reiterate - it's a NEW Worms game; it's NOT Worms Armageddon!

D_Wormkill
27 Aug 2010, 17:32
My main concern with all of these complaints about Worms Reloaded is this: it's NOT Worms Armageddon - this is a new game! Why do you expect it to be the same as WA?! Why not put your heads into gear before hating? Come on, it makes sense when you think about it and I'll reiterate - it's a NEW Worms game; it's NOT Worms Armageddon!
For a simple reason, my friend: after 10 years not seeing a 2D Worms PC game, what did you expect? To believe this would have been the sequel of Worms Armageddon. =P

DrMelon
27 Aug 2010, 17:52
My main concern with all of these complaints about Worms Reloaded is this: it's NOT Worms Armageddon - this is a new game! Why do you expect it to be the same as WA?! Why not put your heads into gear before hating? Come on, it makes sense when you think about it and I'll reiterate - it's a NEW Worms game; it's NOT Worms Armageddon!
Listen to this man. Gaming Mill has Skill.

Etho.
27 Aug 2010, 18:39
My main concern with all of these complaints about Worms Reloaded is this: it's NOT Worms Armageddon - this is a new game! Why do you expect it to be the same as WA?! Why not put your heads into gear before hating? Come on, it makes sense when you think about it and I'll reiterate - it's a NEW Worms game; it's NOT Worms Armageddon!
Don't misunderstand me or those who share the same view as me. We didn't want this game to be Worms Armageddon... we wanted it to be BETTER than Worms Armageddon. We are disappointed because in 10 years of time, with 10 years of community feedback, with 10 years of trial and error, with 10 years of improvements in computer technology... Team17 have finally produced a supposed sequel to W:A, and it is not even as good.
Blizzard used its 10 years to produce a very nice sequel while Team17 was busy cashing in on its Worms remakes and console ports.

SupSuper
27 Aug 2010, 18:48
This argument has been going on since, well, since WA. WWP, W3D, WF, W4, WXBLA, WOW, WOW2, W2:A, all got the exact same posts. So I don't really see it changing no matter what happens, it's pretty much tradition by now.
The "this is why WA is still popular" and "WA was perfectly fine" arguments are silly. WWP was exactly like WA and it got the same "welcome" for not changing a thing. It was released right after WA and it quickly died. Vanished. WA would've gone the exact same way if it weren't for the unofficial patches reminding people that the game exists. Think about it.

Jarzka
27 Aug 2010, 19:06
This is ten years later and we are getting something worst than armageddon. It's a HUGE slap in the face from Team 17.
I really agree with you :(

Etho.
27 Aug 2010, 19:15
WWP died because of the patches for W:A. 1 by 1 all the skilled players switched over to W:A, which left a large number of new and inexperienced players on WormNET2. Most of these new players quickly lost interest in playing the game online because they no longer had the skilled players around to teach them what makes the game so much fun.
I believe the W:A community would be much larger today if all those new players didn't get abandoned.

D_Wormkill
27 Aug 2010, 19:45
WWP died because of the patches for W:A. 1 by 1 all the skilled players switched over to W:A, which left a large number of new and inexperienced players on WormNET2. Most of these new players quickly lost interest in playing the game online because they no longer had the skilled players around to teach them what makes the game so much fun.
I believe the W:A community would be much larger today if all those new players didn't get abandoned.
And would have been really smaller if these "one" player hasn't patched the game for us. Do not forget this! =P

lDarKl
27 Aug 2010, 20:05
This argument has been going on since, well, since WA. WWP, W3D, WF, W4, WXBLA, WOW, WOW2, W2:A, all got the exact same posts. So I don't really see it changing no matter what happens, it's pretty much tradition by now.
You're ignoring the fact that W:R is the first 2D Worms game for the PC since W:WP and simply this fact let the 2D Worms community have high hopes for it. Imagine you play a game for more than 10 years (!), then the sequel is released (because that's what it is - a sequel to the 2D Worms series) and it plain sucks in comparision to the 10 years older game. It really is frustrating and a slap in the face for all those who have sticked to 2D Worms for all this time.

Shroom!
27 Aug 2010, 20:05
WWP died because of the patches for W:A. 1 by 1 all the skilled players switched over to W:A, which left a large number of new and inexperienced players on WormNET2. Most of these new players quickly lost interest in playing the game online because they no longer had the skilled players around to teach them what makes the game so much fun.
I believe the W:A community would be much larger today if all those new players didn't get abandoned.
For a decade old game, the W:A community is quite strong, I think. There is never a shortage of games being hosted on WormNet no matter what time you log on...

MtlAngelus
27 Aug 2010, 20:08
The "this is why WA is still popular" and "WA was perfectly fine" arguments are silly. WWP was exactly like WA and it got the same "welcome" for not changing a thing. It was released right after WA and it quickly died. Vanished. WA would've gone the exact same way if it weren't for the unofficial patches reminding people that the game exists. Think about it.
Surely you can tell the difference between releasing the same game under a different ui two years later and releasing a brand new game under a brand new engine eleven years later that is worse in every way but graphics?

GamingMill
28 Aug 2010, 07:41
Just what do you want?! Stick with WA if it makes you happy; hell, there has been a ton of hours (and then some) spent creating 'Reloaded...IT'S NOT THE SAME GAME AS WA! Shut your moaning, get over it and enjoy it as a new game!

Skeeter
28 Aug 2010, 10:18
No. We bought WR because it was suppose to be better game than WA it isnt. We are within our right to be a little miffed that all this new game is is new gfx and thats about it.

Worm199
28 Aug 2010, 10:49
STOP IT PEOPLE JUST STOP IT!
I get your points. Some expected a better W:A, but I dont get those who just expected an upgraded W:A.
They tried to make W:R lesser hardcore and more casual than W:A, taking some of the crazy weapons out and balancing the other weapons.
Both games has their ups and downs:
W:A:
+Many great weapons
+Better Psycics
+A strong community even at this day
+Better gamestyle customasation
+Better Soundtrack
+Better Mission Ideas
+Each team had a special weapon
W:R:
+Better Graphics(Duh)
+Funnier Soundbanks(Im talking about those that are released WITH the game, not customs)
+No Worm Select(THIS... THIS IS GREAT! I always thought it was cheap being a camper and then just select another worm and do your unfinished job, like in the older Worms games. In this game, campers need to do some damage or skip their turns)
+Better Team customasation
+Better Map creator
+Puzzle Missions
+Better Forts
+FREE Game updates, with new maybe DLC(People needs to focus a little more on this, W:R just got released and the fact that a patch is already out makes me happy. Team 17 are really working on this game guys)
So at the end, I actually think that both games are gonna be as good as they are. We need a new worms 2d game, not just an updated W:A, so lets chill and wait and see how this game is going to be like. So far ITS NOT TERRIBLE!

Husk
28 Aug 2010, 17:58
new 2d worms title with better graphics, and thats what we expected. its got great graphics and its fun for few days. should include some features that made the previous titles so great as they are:
wheres the great variety in customizing we had when it came to schemes, weapon settings, maps (.bit and .png) and wheres wormpot.
it just looks like it only scrapes surface of its potential x;

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