Suggestion about a easy-to-do thing (Nade seconds) [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Abnaxus
16 Sep 2011, 14:18
Hi,
I'm just here to suggest putting half seconds on nades.
It's kinda easy to code I guess, and it would be very welcome for BnGer's.
Well, that's all. x]
Thanks in advance.
Yours sincerely,
xDragonfirex.

DarkLord22
16 Sep 2011, 20:36
Well, with /fuseex (wkRubberWorm 0.0.1.9) it's now possible to have nades with up to 9sec, so I guess it would be possible to code for 1/2 seconds. But, how would you toggle it?
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3908/kbdecimal.png

franpa
17 Sep 2011, 12:03
Shift # ?

Deadcode
17 Sep 2011, 18:23
so I guess it would be possible to code for 1/2 seconds. But, how would you toggle it?
Press the same number key twice in a row. There're two different ways this could be done:
1) Number key must be pressed twice within a certain time (1 second maybe?), otherwise subsequent presses of the same number will reset to the integer fuse time.
2) Pressing a number key when the fuse is already set to that value will toggle the addition of 1/2 second, no matter how much time has elapsed since last pressing that key. Pressing a different number key will reset to integer fuse time.

CyberShadow
17 Sep 2011, 19:23
Well then, how about pressing two adjacent number keys? Pressing 1+2 would mean 1.5 seconds. :p

DarkLord22
17 Sep 2011, 20:34
2) Pressing a number key when the fuse is already set to that value will toggle the addition of 1/2 second, no matter how much time has elapsed since last pressing that key. Pressing a different number key will reset to integer fuse time.
Very elequant solution. Pressing a number, eg. 1 toggles between 1, 1.5, then back to 1. No need to take timing into account.

Deadcode
17 Sep 2011, 20:44
Well then, how about pressing two adjacent number keys? Pressing 1+2 would mean 1.5 seconds. :p
Nice solution, more elegant than mine I think.
With that kind of logic, F8+F10 could give you Parachute, F3+F6 could give you Minigun, etc.; ~+F1 or ~+1 could give you Low Gravity. Still leaves a quandary over how to get the higher F12s (F12+F1, F12+F2, etc.?)

Extremist2
17 Sep 2011, 23:00
I say, hold Shift while selecting the integer. Alternating taps will toggle between .0 & .5
But in any case, I don't like this idea. It'll make shots TOO easy.

Deadcode
18 Sep 2011, 00:31
But in any case, I don't like this idea. It'll make shots TOO easy.Exactly what I was thinking. But it was interesting to think about, anyway.

bonz
18 Sep 2011, 09:22
Mouse gestures!

StepS
18 Sep 2011, 12:46
And a 0.5?:eek:
The game has a hidden feature, by the way, but it is normally disabled. If it would be enabled, then pressing zero would choose a random fuse from 1 to 5:eek:

franpa
18 Sep 2011, 14:48
I say, hold Shift while selecting the integer. Alternating taps will toggle between .0 & .5
But in any case, I don't like this idea. It'll make shots TOO easy.
Shift+1=1.5
1=1
Shift+2=2.5
2=2
Shift+3=3.5
3=3
etc.

StepS
18 Sep 2011, 18:25
Shift+1=1.5
1=1
Shift+2=2.5
2=2
Shift+3=3.5
3=3
etc.
And Shift+0 = 0.5:D

franpa
18 Sep 2011, 19:31
A nearly instant Nade i feel makes the nade too effective in close combat.

Drury
18 Sep 2011, 19:41
A nearly instant Nade i feel makes the nade too effective in close combat.
But firepunch...

coste
18 Sep 2011, 19:53
A nearly instant Nade i feel makes the nade too effective in close combat.
Same goes for every x.5. There are many throws that could be abused that way with full power or else, even more than you can think of at this moment. I mean mainly for bng, not to mention how much easier it could become.

StepS
18 Sep 2011, 20:29
A nearly instant Nade i feel makes the nade too effective in close combat.
Kawoosh always wanted to make a 0-seconds grenade, but I always told him that it's easier to go inside the map's texture and just throw it there:D
Same goes for every x.5. There are many throws that could be abused that way with full power or else, even more than you can think of at this moment. I mean mainly for bng, not to mention how much easier it could become.
That feature would be toggleable.

CyberShadow
18 Sep 2011, 23:46
Kawoosh always wanted to make a 0-seconds grenade, but I always told him that it's easier to go inside the map's texture and just throw it there:DWon't it just fall down?

KRD
19 Sep 2011, 03:11
... and it would be very welcome for BnGer's.
Please point me in the direction of any BnG players who would welcome this so that I can proceed to slap the backs of their heads for not thinking things through. :p

StepS
19 Sep 2011, 11:53
Won't it just fall down?
Well, you can do it from Rope or parachute. Also I have discovered that Kilburn's bowling balls have a property that allows worms to stand on them even if they are inside the map's textures. In this way, the worms can "live" underground as if they would on the air environment:D However, the rope will not work. Also, every weapon will be exploded instantly or thrown to the top left corner. I also did some "portals" once somehow which allowed to go directly through the texture's area without any barrier or help of tools.
There are much things to say about this, but let's not go offtopic.:)

wowwow
19 Sep 2011, 15:18
I think the easiest way would be that pressing the button "0" adds 0.5 seconds to nade so if u press it twice it will add 1 second , with the max of 9s
It should be implemented in rubberworm 0.2 included in /fuseex , we dont need to use a comand for eveything :P

DarkLord22
19 Sep 2011, 19:41
I think the easiest way would be that pressing the button "0" adds 0.5 seconds to nade so if u press it twice it will add 1 second , with the max of 9s
Wait, so you are saying that to get, for example, 3.5sec, one would need to press 3, than 0? That seems clunky.

wowwow
20 Sep 2011, 00:22
Wait, so you are saying that to get, for example, 3.5sec, one would need to press 3, than 0? That seems clunky.
Is pressing 2 buttons clunky? , if it is , what do you suggest?

DarkLord22
20 Sep 2011, 00:41
Ok, clunky is the wrong word. But a better solution, imho, would be pressing the number again to toggle the addition of 0.5sec (suggested by Deadcode) or using the shift key (suggested by Extremist).

Extremist2
20 Sep 2011, 01:14
Ok, clunky is the wrong word. But a better solution, imho, would be pressing the number again to toggle the addition of 0.5sec (suggested by Deadcode) or using the shift key (suggested by Extremist).
franpa's tweak to my idea is the best one:
Shift+1=1.5
1=1
Shift+2=2.5
2=2
Shift+3=3.5
3=3
etc.
Maybe this can be added through teststuff or WormKit, but PLEASE don't include it in the main game - it WILL break it.

Plasma
20 Sep 2011, 02:00
Personally I prefer the double-tap for half-seconds. Easy to use, easy to remember, easy for newbies to figure out.
Well no, personally I think half-seconds is just a really bad idea for several reasons. But y'know, aside from that...

Extremist2
20 Sep 2011, 02:05
Personally I prefer the double-tap for half-seconds. Easy to use, easy to remember, easy for newbies to figure out.
Using a separate key to enable it prevents accidentially selecting a half-second.

bonz
20 Sep 2011, 08:19
Personally I prefer the double-tap for half-seconds. Easy to use, easy to remember, easy for newbies to figure out.
Using a separate key to enable it prevents accidentially selecting a half-second.
And using the shift key is more consistent with all the other new shortcut options.

franpa
20 Sep 2011, 09:25
And using the shift key is more consistent with all the other new shortcut options.
Exactly :)

DarkLord22
20 Sep 2011, 19:55
And using the shift key is more consistent with all the other new shortcut options.
New shortcut options? Did I miss the memo? :confused:

franpa
20 Sep 2011, 20:04
I believe he means things like configuring turn time etc. when customizing schemes, walking backwards by holding shift and a directional button during gameplay etc..

DarkLord22
20 Sep 2011, 23:27
I believe he means things like configuring turn time etc. when customizing schemes, walking backwards by holding shift and a directional button during gameplay etc..
Thanks, I know about those .I thought he meant that there were other shift shortcuts in-game.

Muzer
20 Sep 2011, 23:51
There's also shift+numbers during replays to change speed.

bonz
21 Sep 2011, 07:55
New shortcut options? Did I miss the memo? :confused:
There are many.
Most prominent would be the replay fast forward shortcuts with shift+number keys.

StepS
21 Sep 2011, 12:05
There are many.
Most prominent would be the replay fast forward shortcuts with shift+number keys.
that doesn't make any sense. The same for 1-5 buttons, you don't use them for fuse in the replay, lulz:rolleyes:
Also, Shift+Number is a slow-motion.

Abnaxus
29 Sep 2011, 21:25
Would make shots too easy ?
There is for the moment around 5 possible shots:
- LG 5sec.
- LG 4sec.
- 5sec Max Bounce.
- 4sec Full Power.
- 3sec.
Adding half second nades will just add more way to shoot.
Plus, you'll finally be able to hit your opponent anywhere (hard or not).
Sometimes you where in such a position that you couldn't get him, except by cheaping.

coste
30 Sep 2011, 01:16
Are you serious? Cmon, you are better than that.
5 shots at BnG? Even if its a hardcore league fight for your life style? How about all situational wall/floor banks? Please dont say no one plays such bng. How about more complex bounces? Those are also situational, sometimes only way to get to opponent. And dozens of those throws are possible today with 4 fuses mixed with bounce type and low gravity. Now how many 95-100% power shots (note that those are easy to fix on your next turn if you miss) we have to hit opponent in ~horizontal line, no matter if its gonna be trapped in the terrain or explode on impact? More than enough. Now you want 4-5 additional fuses. Do i have to tell you how many easy shots you will serve with this? I can assure you it wouldnt take long to master them. When people use only 5 throws at league bng, thats their fault. Not much players bother to explore the game deeper, sadly. I believed you arent 1 of them, are you?

Abnaxus
1 Oct 2011, 22:48
About floor banks for example, you'll be able to hit your opponent from your hide only 4 times on 10.
Why ? Cause no angle.
Why ? Cause either lower the nade bounces and explodes next to the worm, or higher the nade explodes above the worm.
Adding those half secondes will allow you to hit straight on the worm.
PS: You get the chance to add a lot of shots to your panel (which are much more complex since there is more bounces (always loved to get 10sec nades and never had)) and you refuse them ?
What kind of BnG player are you ?....
PSS: Bounce nades aren't so complex.
PSSS: Bigger maps, many obstacles and longer nades are the future of BnG I'd like to see.
Some kind of gravity pool.

franpa
2 Oct 2011, 05:03
If such a thing was to be implemented it would have to be made optional as it changes games played on regular size maps too much for the worse. If you can't hit someone from your position either spend a turn blow torching/teleporting (That's why they're in the scheme!) or give it a go anyways as there's rarely a situation where you can't make a shot.

Abnaxus
4 Oct 2011, 08:44
You don't get it: at a high level, you can't spend a turn using blowtorch/teleport, or it's a lose.
Every turns are a hit. So the only way to win is to deal more damages than your opponent.
And the only way to do so, is to be able to deal 44-46 dmgs on any shots (can be hard or not, we just need it to be possible).
And we need half seconds to do so.
The only moment you *must* teleport/blowtorch is if you get pushed in a hole where you're stucked.
In such a situation, you already lost the game.
So to prevent that, we have to maximize the possibilities to shot.

coste
4 Oct 2011, 10:22
You don't get it: at a high level, you can't spend a turn using blowtorch/teleport, or it's a lose.
Every turns are a hit. So the only way to win is to deal more damages than your opponent.
And the only way to do so, is to be able to deal 44-46 dmgs on any shots (can be hard or not, we just need it to be possible).
And we need half seconds to do so.
The only moment you *must* teleport/blowtorch is if you get pushed in a hole where you're stucked.
In such a situation, you already lost the game.
So to prevent that, we have to maximize the possibilities to shot.
No such thing. My best dreams arent even that perfect, what drugs are you using? Please post at least 1 game like this, without cheating, and i will shake your hand.
In the last 2 years (almost as i actively play bng and track the best that happened) i remember 1 of the best games that i can put onto top shelf of perfectly executed shots without many fails. This is it: http://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-47576/ - featuring undeniably the best BnG player there is and the other one, 1 of the top league style. Its not even close to what you implying. Also, i dont see how it was impossible to do excellent damage from any (non trapped) position in this match, without half second fuse. Same goes for every other game. By the way, tactical changes of position is strong part of the game, same as opening nearly impossible to hit hide, note that map has to allow those.

Abnaxus
4 Oct 2011, 11:25
Random is notching, there is nothing beautiful in that.
PS: Just ask Komo our old BnG games (when we were in `sw) if he still gets them, and you might find your wish.
We both had already done games like that.

coste
4 Oct 2011, 15:14
Random is notching, there is nothing beautiful in that.
PS: Just ask Komo our old BnG games (when we were in `sw) if he still gets them, and you might find your wish.
We both had already done games like that.
Im not sure if Random is notching, at least not properly.
If i remember correctly, Komo was saying he had those perfect games when he actually notched. Anyway, i wouldnt be suprised if he had few matches without misses in his long addiction with the scheme, he played it much more than anyone. So, provide some replays and then we can discuss whats possible and how often.
By the way,
And the only way to do so, is to be able to deal 44-46 dmgs on any shots
Loved that line, honestly.

Abnaxus
4 Oct 2011, 15:27
As I said, ask Komo for the replays, since I don't have them anymore.
Plus, some of Komo's & me matches were highly better than the one you gave with Komo vs Random (we weren't notching and didn't keep throwing 4sec & 5sec as Random did).
PS: Anyway, if you don't want those half seconds, just don't use them and let the others enjoy a bigger gameplay ?

KRD
4 Oct 2011, 15:34
PS: Anyway, if you don't want those half seconds, just don't use them and let the others enjoy a bigger gameplay ?
But then nobody will ever be able to say they're the best BnG player on WormNet because they'll be told that yes, maybe with half second grenades enabled you are, but without them, that other guy is totally better!
For a game that's actually highly competitive, a situation like that would be far from ideal. There's already too many schemes that a serious league player has to practice, so if at all possible, we should work toward standardising them, not coming up with new variations.
Imho.

coste
4 Oct 2011, 15:51
As I said, ask Komo for the replays, since I don't have them anymore.
Plus, some of Komo's & me matches were highly better than the one you gave with Komo vs Random (we weren't notching and didn't keep throwing 4sec & 5sec as Random did).
I dont have to prove anything here.
Komo is at this moment, mainly over the last few years, almost unbeatable, still he misses a lot.
Games, even with the minimum damage dealt each turn, are so so rare or doesnt even exist and still you are talking about max damage. This is some fairy tale you brought here.
PS: Anyway, if you don't want those half seconds, just don't use them and let the others enjoy a bigger gameplay ?
Others like who? It looks to me like you are talking in the name of every BnG fan out there.

Abnaxus
4 Oct 2011, 16:41
maybe with half second grenades enabled you are, but without them, that other guy is totally better!
Wrong if you know well your nades, you'll be able to see when a *.5sec Nades is needed, and so it'll mean you'll have to move.
So it will be exactly the same level when they'll go back to normal grenades BnG.
But then nobody will ever be able to say they're the best BnG player on WormNet
I'm sorry, but this is a total non sense. Maybe players act that way, but it's not the right way.
Saying your the best just means you're pretentious (and that's bad).
I dont have to prove anything here.
Komo is at this moment, mainly over the last few years, almost unbeatable, still he misses a lot.
I guess you've never seen Komo playing while active.
He is 10 times better than what we see nowadays.
Others like who? It looks to me like you are talking in the name of every BnG fan out there.
Others who want it to be on.

mushroom
4 Oct 2011, 17:05
hows about button codes you gotta memorize to do special moves like f1,f2,f3, enter, shift, up, down, right, space

coste
4 Oct 2011, 17:51
I guess you've never seen Komo playing while active.
He is 10 times better than what we see nowadays.
He was active over last 2 years, lately not much but still theres no one very close to his level. But hey, if he was 10 times better and didnt let you to throw anything each turn whats the big deal about 0.5 sec nades? Do you think it would balance anything? I dont see how.

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