Draw with Phillby! Self improvement at art camp! [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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philby4000
2 Mar 2009, 17:52
HEY YOU!
YES YOU!
Are you an aspiring artist? Do you want to draw better? Then enroll your self at CAMP DEATHTRAP this forums most popular* art camp!
Over the course of weeks you'll take part in numerous drawing excersises including PERSPECTIVE! SHADING! CONSTRUCTION! EMOTIONS! COLOUR THEORY! All the while staying just tangentally related to team 17 to remain in this subforum!
You'll recieve personal tuition from our semi-tallented drawing tutor(s)**
All are welcome! To enroll Post your sigworm and state your drawing tools.
*Currently the only art camp in this forum, not an actual camp.
**We are hiring! PM me if you're interested! no time wasters pay is 0% of current minimum wage.
without further ado:

robowurmz
2 Mar 2009, 18:15
I ENROLL!
Drawing Tools:
Tech Nib Pen, Pencils, Paper, Scanner, Crappy Graphics Tablet.
Sigworm:
Bio:
An experiment in battle droids: unfortunately, the personality given to the robot was far too independant, and the bot would not battle. After being dumped for scrap, a car dumped on it hit the on button and restarted the droid.
Appearance:
White pupils in eyes, metal plates on the back of the head, metal segmented tail. Rest of body is glossy light-grey plastic.
Personality:
Do not trust with metaphors. They will be taken seriously.
Abilities:
Modifiable with many different components, including but not limited to: Toaster, Lasers, Water Cooler, Rocket Launcher etc etc.

Shadowmoon
2 Mar 2009, 22:27
I'm going to guess this is a forum comic or something.
Whatever it is I enroll, link to my worm is in my sig.
Drawing Tools: Scanner, Pencils, Pens and paper.

Pyramid
3 Mar 2009, 01:52
This seems very interesting, but robowurmz and Shadowmoon's posts got me confused

Error404
3 Mar 2009, 02:01
This seems very interesting, but the robowurmz and shadowmoon's posts got me confused
Let me clarify that to you: they're wrong. :p

Akuryou13
3 Mar 2009, 02:16
I think I've got some of this stuff down, but I could use some perspective work and that sort of thing for sure, as well as tips on some other stuff.
I guess I could enroll?

philby4000
3 Mar 2009, 06:01
The Camp staff would like to remind Enrollees that this is an Art camp so an actuall picture of your sigworm (that you drew yourself) is what we're after.
We also don't need your whole profile. Just a picture.
Also to eliviate some confusion, you will be expected to participate in the thread beyond your first post, with artwork! This isn't just a complicated set up for a forum comic about me teaching your sigworms how to draw better.
Akuryou, we'll be happy to have you! This should be a learning oppertunity for everyone involved, even me as I'm going to have to do actual research and stuff!
Tune in later today when We'll meet the camps tutors!

Metal Alex
3 Mar 2009, 07:11
I may join, but I'm only availible to draw with my mouse for now... :p
and on paint.

Shadowmoon
3 Mar 2009, 07:35
I enroll anyway. Picture of my sigworm is in my profile.

philby4000
3 Mar 2009, 07:57
The camp staff would like to stress that the enrollment process only requires a post in the thread, you really don't have to PM us.

Vader
3 Mar 2009, 17:49
I'd like to enrol but I'd also like to give advice where possible, if possible.
Here's my sigworm:
http://vader.wurmz.net/images/worms/Vader_800.png

MtlAngelus
3 Mar 2009, 17:57
I'm in .

Error404
3 Mar 2009, 19:15
The art camp staff would like to clarify that the enrollment is for the artists (or individuals aspiring to be artists), not their pseudo worm characters.
Thank you.

MtlAngelus
3 Mar 2009, 19:25
The art camp staff would like to clarify that the enrollment is for the artists (or individuals aspiring to be artists), not their pseudo worm characters.
Thank you.
Who are you calling pseudo worm character? :mad:

philby4000
3 Mar 2009, 21:30
Unfortunately, the tutors have been held up due to a bad internet connection! So before orientation can begin we'll start with a litttle warm up excersise for you lot!
Excersise 1: Let's see your construction lines!
All you have to do is show us how you prepare a drawing of a worm (facing right, 3/4 view please keep it simple). We want everything you scribble down before you start the final lineart.
If you work on paper you might want to use biro instead of pencil so you can scan it easier. As for you digital artists a usefull tip is to sketch in blue or red to differentiate your construction lines when the time comes to draw over them!
The deadline is Thursday! Have fun!

MtlAngelus
3 Mar 2009, 22:16
I usually do not use much construction lines. I just draw the overall thing and then work on perfecting it. So my construction lines would look like a finished sketch only a bit crappy...
Since a worm looking to the right in 3/4 view is rather simple, I whip out in a few seconds an almost finished product. If the pose and/or motif is more complex, then it will usually look a lot crappier and requires a lot of fixing before i start colouring.

Akuryou13
4 Mar 2009, 06:51
here's a basic sketch from me. *wanders off to draw more from Fantasy! Cartooning*
edit: all is better now.

SupSuper
4 Mar 2009, 13:03
I'd like to enroll! I'm not much of an artist, casual at most, but I'm always up for some advice, like actually being able to draw worms at anything other than side view. :p I usually draw with whatever style and tool I've got at hand, but I refrain from pencil drawing since it takes a lot of time to get it properly in digital format, so I mostly stick to drawing with the mouse in Paint/Flash.
Exercise 1:
I don't do construction lines. At most I'll do a quick sketch in a different color/layer so I have a clear picture of what I'm going for (aside from in my mind) and then draw over it properly. (at 200% zoom if I'm using Paint, since it makes for finer lines).

robowurmz
4 Mar 2009, 16:34
I don't usually draw construct lines, I usually draw the basic outline.

Pyramid
5 Mar 2009, 01:35
OK, I'm in
And most of the times, I don't use construction lines, when doing worms, just a base-line
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7540/wormbaseline.png

Shadowmoon
5 Mar 2009, 18:58
I'd like to Disenroll, given that my computers internet isn't working, i'm typing this from another computer.
Damn Internet Connections.

philby4000
6 Mar 2009, 15:59
As I expected, no one bothers with Construction lines for something so simple. you've all drawn acceptable worms, but we're not here for acceptable! We're here for better! I'll whip up a little tutorial later.
I'm not going to make a habit of singling people out but Akuryou your construction lines don't have any realtion to the sketch you've drawn over them! The 'spine' doesn't follow the bend of the tail, and the skull portion doesn't match up at all (the horizontal line should pass throught the centre of the eyes).

Akuryou13
6 Mar 2009, 16:24
As I expected, no one bothers with Construction lines for something so simple. you've all drawn acceptable worms, but we're not here for acceptable! We're here for better! I'll whip up a little tutorial later.
I'm not going to make a habit of singling people out but Akuryou your construction lines don't have any realtion to the sketch you've drawn over them! The 'spine' doesn't follow the bend of the tail, and the skull portion doesn't match up at all (the horizontal line should pass throught the centre of the eyes).you wanted a simple sketch and now you nitpick? I wasn't paying extremely close attention to detail, it's a sketch. the spine would've been bent or straightened or whatever as I felt was best (in this case it would've been bent) when I did the lineart.
the eyes I give you, but the skull is the EXACT same size as the head.

philby4000
6 Mar 2009, 18:46
you wanted a simple sketch and now you nitpick? I wasn't paying extremely close attention to detail, it's a sketch. the spine would've been bent or straightened or whatever as I felt was best (in this case it would've been bent) when I did the lineart.
the eyes I give you, but the skull is the EXACT same size as the head.
That tiny circle does not begin to cover the size of the head, especailly...
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5753/76684757.jpg
Major Phillby's here to teach you molly-coddled sissies how to draw!
We're gonna start with the absoloute basics, so with any luck you should be rolling your eyes at this stuff!
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5707/cdt3.png
You gotta lay the foundations before you can build a house! That aplies to drawing worms somehow!
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6263/cdt2.png
Of course you've all got different ways of drawing worms so you won't nessisarily be using the same shapes as I did.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/284/cdt1.png
Remember that worms are squishy cartoon characters so you'll be bending, stretching and compressing those shapes all over the place!
Any questions?
Excersise 2: Building a better worm
Let's see you deconstruct your worm from excersise 1, then use construction lines to draw a couple of complicated poses! You're only allowed to draw one face in 3/4 perspective, I want to se some crazy angles!

robowurmz
6 Mar 2009, 19:03
This is my contribution.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7624/wormjustlines.png
The lower eye boundaries on my style look like moustaches D:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/604/wormstructlines.png
Just my struct lines.

Error404
6 Mar 2009, 19:33
Indication for the ones to follow robowurmz: draw each primitive in a different colour (for the sake of clarifying your process).

philby4000
6 Mar 2009, 19:59
This is my contribution.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7624/wormjustlines.png
The lower eye boundaries on my style look like moustaches D:
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/604/wormstructlines.png
Just my struct lines.
It looks like you've just copied what I did verbatum. The idea is to deconstruct your own style rather than ape mine. Your sketch from excersise 1 is much blockier than that:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7870/roboa.png
Also remember perspective! The whole point of construction is to aviod glaring errors like these!
Details like the discontinious outlines on the eyes are for the lineart stage, you should map out the entire eye while you're sketching, it'll match up a lot better in the end!
Edit: Please check your backgrounds before you post, I'm using retro purple so I can barely see your second image.

robowurmz
6 Mar 2009, 20:10
I see what you mean about the blockiness - I should adapt the shapes more to my Worm's build. :D
Also I must learn more about perspective - it's a weak point.

Error404
6 Mar 2009, 21:23
You don't need to follow Philb's examples too literally. Draw them in 3/4 if you wish.
Make it simple. Right now we want to evaluate your skills in making the primitive shapes and construction lines and not your creativity or perspective skills.
Stick to the concept.

MtlAngelus
6 Mar 2009, 21:42
Waaait a second, why are we doing all this for anyway?
...
OH GOD. You people are recruiting artists aren't ya? And you'll use us to design a giant alien monster that you'll have scientists create, and then teleport him into the middle of new york city killing thousands of people in an explosion to trick humanity into thinking we are under a potential invasion and thus creating world peace by having all the countries in the world ally against this potential threat and then proceed to kill us all to dispose of the evidence?!?!?! :eek:
I'll get to doing mine later, I have a movie to see today. :P

philby4000
6 Mar 2009, 23:14
You don't need to follow Philb's examples too literally. Draw them in 3/4 if you wish.
Make it simple. Right now we want to evaluate your skills in making the primitive shapes and construction lines and not your creativity or perspective skills.
Stick to the concept.
Yeah, I got a little carried away there.:p

Pyramid
7 Mar 2009, 00:50
Well, I hope this is ok
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/491/wormssketches.png
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8743/wormssketches2.png

SupSuper
7 Mar 2009, 00:51
Well they do look more lively now.

Akuryou13
7 Mar 2009, 01:56
here's this one:
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6799/wormsketches.jpg

koolies54
7 Mar 2009, 07:50
The bottom left one is cool as hell.

Metal Alex
7 Mar 2009, 15:43
The bottom left one is cool as hell.
I must say, it's a HUGE improvement over his usual ones (Ok, I mean specially that last zombie-like one), too static, usually.

Akuryou13
7 Mar 2009, 15:57
I must say, it's a HUGE improvement over his usual ones (Ok, I mean specially that last zombie-like one), too static, usually.that's why I enrolled. I CAN draw dynamic poses, I just don't generally. no real reason behind it either, so I signed up here to get them to force me into getting used to different sorts of posing.

Traxada
8 Mar 2009, 16:46
The mental image I got after reading this
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4408/wormrender.png
And before you ask, yes I did that and no I'm not doing requests.

Error404
8 Mar 2009, 17:03
*claps*
*gets by the 10 character limit*

Vader
8 Mar 2009, 17:14
And before you ask, yes I did that and no I'm not doing requests.
DRAW ME LOL
Nice to see you, Trax. :)
On topic:
I'll upload my stuff in a bit - right now I'm preoccupied with LEGO.
FYI, my worms seem to be composed of 2 cylinders (head and body) and a cone (tail). Does that mean my worms are too simple, or is it just a case of taking what I do and using that?

Error404
8 Mar 2009, 17:26
No. Decomposing the worms into primitive shapes is something very personal. My current style, for example, doesn't have the upper lip thingy, so it's more like 2 cilinders and a cone, but i draw a sphere for the head instead.
You can figure out which way of decomposing suits you better. The mere fact that you asked that question already proves you got the concept. :p

.JeT
9 Mar 2009, 10:14
Personally, what I'd like to do when drawing skethces is make a big sausage, skewed or bent in what shape according to the final pose. And then, for the tail, i make a cone with a rounded tip. If it's folded up though, i make three balls from large, medium, small and draw a connection between them.

Error404
9 Mar 2009, 18:26
My comments so far:
• robowurms: I couldn't understand your primitives properly and as philby wisely pointed out, they don't seem to follow your own style. Please, refer to the appendix below and follow its model.
• pyramid: Great job there. Your light blue construction lines seem to have all the elements we're seeking here and you even succeeded in making some hard angles and perspectives. I specially like the Jason one. You seem to need to work on the hand shapes and try to have a more constant worm volume there. They seem to shorten and lengthen randomly through your drawings.
• sup: I don't get the first row of your picture. You drew the construction lines AFTER you've drawn the worm!? The ones on the second row doesn't look that clear either. I can't properly separate the outlines from the construction lines. I can see improvement, but i think you still didn't quite get it yet.
• aku: You've put too much detail into the finished worms and the construction lines and primitives were drawn in an awful colour. please, try to make'em more clear and/or keep the worms simple. Pyramid seems to have found a good way to draw them in complex poses and fairly detailed while maintaining a clarity.
• metalalex: n/a
• mtlangelus:n/a
• shadowmoon:n/a
• vader: n/a
Nonetheless, all of you should refer to the appendix 1 and post another picture(s) following its model. It would be easier for us to analise your progress if there's some sort of pattern on the exercises.
Keep it up and don't let yourself beat by the criticism. Use it to improve!:p
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4022/artcampappendix1firstst.png
Just remember: the primitives should follow your style, not the other way around! ;)

Akuryou13
9 Mar 2009, 19:19
• aku: You've put too much detail into the finished worms and the construction lines and primitives were drawn in an awful colour. please, try to make'em more clear and/or keep the worms simple. Pyramid seems to have found a good way to draw them in complex poses and fairly detailed while maintaining a clarity.I'm confused. you're saying I have too much detail in a drawing and it's a bad thing? you're gunna have to explain that one for me.
and I don't see what it matters if YOU don't like my color choice.
is the complaint here just that you're having a hard time being able to tell what's good/bad in the drawing due to my choice of colors and the way I drew the sketches? if so I'll try to find a better color combination for you, if not then I'm lost :p

Error404
9 Mar 2009, 19:32
I'm confused. you're saying I have too much detail in a drawing and it's a bad thing? you're gunna have to explain that one for me.
Too much detail get in the way of properly understanding your construction lines. Other people had similar problems, it's not just you.
and I don't see what it matters if YOU don't like my color choice.
It matters when the contrast is awful. Have you ever written something on lime font against a white background? Cause that's what you're doing there.
You can stick with green outlines, just try to refrain from picking eye hurtful saturations. :)

Vader
9 Mar 2009, 20:29
Blah :(
http://vader.wurmz.net/images/worms/constructionLines1.png
http://vader.wurmz.net/images/worms/constructionLines2.png

SupSuper
9 Mar 2009, 21:31
• sup: I don't get the first row of your picture. You drew the construction lines AFTER you've drawn the worm!? The ones on the second row doesn't look that clear either. I can't properly separate the outlines from the construction lines. I can see improvement, but i think you still didn't quite get it yet.The first line is supposed to be deconstructing my style from the first pic, so yes I did draw the lines on top of the worm to "decompose" it into primitive shapes. (a sphere and a cone. I could've probably used a cylinder too but I am simplistic by nature)
The second line is then using that knowledge to draw construction lines (from those primitive shapes) first and the outlines second. I'm sorry if they're not very clear but I'm mostly at university so I stick to Paint, so my only way to "deconstruct" layers is to copy-paste ahead of time (I didn't do that for the first pic so had to do a messy job of erasing and restoring). I'll keep it in mind next time. :)

Error404
9 Mar 2009, 21:38
• Vader: Nice. It seems that you got the concept, but you're missing the point where your primitives don't represent your style THAT well. Maybe you can try sticking to simpler primitives. You don't have to decompose every single detail. Also work a little more on the head shape. Sometimes you draw the "cylinder" with no perspective whatoever.
Do try to follow the Appendix, though, as it will make the process clearer.
Oh and great job at the bottom pic, btw. :p
• Sup: Right you are about the first line. My bad there. You did exactly what you were suposed to. To solve the lack of layers problem, you can simply save the picture with different names during the process. At the end you merge them all into a single drawing. ;)

philby4000
9 Mar 2009, 23:34
I'm confused. you're saying I have too much detail in a drawing and it's a bad thing? you're gunna have to explain that one for me.
and I don't see what it matters if YOU don't like my color choice.
is the complaint here just that you're having a hard time being able to tell what's good/bad in the drawing due to my choice of colors and the way I drew the sketches? if so I'll try to find a better color combination for you, if not then I'm lost :p
Please bear in mind that we're working on the absoloute basics at the moment. We want to see your worms, not their hair and jewlery.

Akuryou13
10 Mar 2009, 07:50
Please bear in mind that we're working on the absoloute basics at the moment. We want to see your worms, not their hair and jewlery.well fine then :p I'll just be boring in the future

Vader
10 Mar 2009, 11:11
• Vader: Nice. It seems that you got the concept, but you're missing the point where your primitives don't represent your style THAT well. Maybe you can try sticking to simpler primitives. You don't have to decompose every single detail. Also work a little more on the head shape. Sometimes you draw the "cylinder" with no perspective whatoever.
Do try to follow the Appendix, though, as it will make the process clearer.
Oh and great job at the bottom pic, btw. :p
Right, so I'll make my primitives less primitive but also I'll have fewer primitives and make the primitives 3D. Easy!
I can't tell whether you're serious about the bottom pic.
Anyway, from what I gather, I'm on the right track but I need to practice, refine and improve. I'll be doing that for a while, I guess.

Error404
10 Mar 2009, 18:21
Right, so I'll make my primitives less primitive but also I'll have fewer primitives and make the primitives 3D. Easy!
Yes, exactly!
I can't tell whether you're serious about the bottom pic.
Serious i was serious.
Anyway, from what I gather, I'm on the right track but I need to practice, refine and improve. I'll be doing that for a while, I guess.
I'd call them adjustments. You're almost there. :)

Metal Alex
10 Mar 2009, 20:05
I'd add my stuff and that but:
1. I already fail beyond belief.
2. I don't have the time :(
Do it again on summer, and I'll gladly join.

Shadowmoon
10 Mar 2009, 21:31
When I manage to get back to my computer I shall do all the exercises.

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