Sadly limitied AI on WOW2:DS [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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gcowell
14 Dec 2007, 12:28
I've been playing offline with the AI for a few hours a day now for the last few weeks.
I'm using a custom scheme which has 1 dynamite, 1 sentry gun, infinite super sheep, jetpacks, ropes, mines and girders, 2 lightning strikes, 2 HHGs and one magnet. A single shotgun, unlimited B&G, one cluster bomb. One delayed airstrike and a single further delayed bunker buster.
Now then, the AIs I'm playing against are one easy, one medium and one hard team, to simulate a mix of skills out there.
The AI, be it easy, medium or hard, seems to not use most of the weapons available to it. They're very fond of sentry guns and (for some reason) the cluster bombs. They will use the magnets, and they like airstrikes and busters and will use them as soon as the become available usually. They use B&G a lot, and the shotgun always gets used along with lots of mines. The AI really likes mines. Dynamite is frequently used on a single 100 health worm.
I've never seen an AI use a super sheep, HHG, sheep, lightning, jetpack, rope or girder.
The difficulty only seems to relate to how accurate the AI is with the granades or zook, how likely they are to blow themselves up with them.
Is there a way on the DS to configure the AI to make more use of the weapons?
It's getting a little boring now. All I have to do is hide down a tunnel and fly super sheep at the AI.

Wormetti
14 Dec 2007, 15:55
You can't make the AI use more weapons (unless you get the PSP version). It still doesn't use all of them or use them properly. I only play against human opponents now.

gcowell
14 Dec 2007, 19:01
You can't make the AI use more weapons (unless you get the PSP version). It still doesn't use all of them or use them properly. I only play against human opponents now.
Bah. Did nobody test this? I mean, it's a pretty simple test. I noticed patterns in AI weapon usage within a few plays and more play just reinforced that.
Unfortunately I can't play against other people as my Worms playing time is either in an area with no WiFi or in an area with WPA only.
It's not as if WOW2:DS isn't better than WOW:DS, it would be hard not to be better than brown siht, but come on. For the AI not to use a good proportion of the weapons on offer - even if they use them badly - is just poor QA.
Or perhaps there was great QA and the faults didn't get fixed. That wouldn't be a first in software development either. Good job we have the SOGA. Oh wait. Software usually wriggles out of that as well.

810Damage
14 Dec 2007, 19:30
the ds one has so many flaws thats why the psp one is better. on psp they use everything from shotguns to Holy Hand Grenades

KRD
15 Dec 2007, 01:07
Does the AI know how to use Super Sheep in the PSP version?

gcowell
15 Dec 2007, 07:32
the ds one has so many flaws thats why the psp one is better. on psp they use everything from shotguns to Holy Hand Grenades
They (the AI) love shotguns on the DS, never seen a HHG used though.

Wormetti
15 Dec 2007, 08:36
It's not the job of QA to find missing features (there is an infinite amount of those). The AI uses the weapons they were programmed to use. The more weapons an AI can use, the longer it would take to calculate which is the best move. I guess the AI was considered good enough, it wouldn't be easy to tell them how to use every weapon. Of course I would like to see them use more weapons.
Does the AI know how to use Super Sheep in the PSP version?
The PSP AI can use super sheep but it's limited. I set scheme to only infinite Super Sheep and started an AI vs AI match. They were able to fly it to some of their opponents worms but eventually they just kept skipping their go every time (the worms must have been out of whatever range is calculated).

810Damage
15 Dec 2007, 13:15
Does the AI know how to use Super Sheep in the PSP version?
YES any chance they get
Does the AI know how to use Super Sheep in the PSP version?
Yes evey chance they get( when you dont think its comeing ......Bang )

Vader
23 Dec 2007, 10:14
Bah. Did nobody test this?
It's not the job of QA to find missing features.
Indeed. It's the job of the QA to make sure the game works as intended. QA do not decide on a game's design or functionality, they merely make sure what's there is working.
Actually, I use the phrase "make sure" quite loosely here, as all QA really do is raise the devs' attention to issues in their code. Whether they fix problems is up to them based on what producers, publishers, bank managers and so forth say.
Of course the game was tested. If it wasn't tested there's no way any game would get released. QA is integral to development, especially as games get more complicated and hardware manufacturers' standards become more prominent.
The point really is that QA don't change any code themselves (well, in mobile development they're known to) and to blame QA for anything is short-sighted and ill-informed. Now you know better. Now you know that the devs are the ones who fix the games and sometimes they are prevented from doing so by finance, deadlines, production values and the likes. Now you can aim your frustration at an imperfect title in the right direction.
Besides which, if the game was perfect there'd be no need for a sequel and that wouldn't be sensible from a business point of view ;)
/rant

Shadowmoon
23 Dec 2007, 17:56
Well i definitely think that the AI should be a bit more challenging. I have the DS version, and they keep using Bazooka the Cluster Bomb and the dynamite, mine and grenade. I get really fed up to see them use the same weapons all the time. They also use the air strike weapons a lot.

AndrewTaylor
23 Dec 2007, 17:58
the ds one has so many flaws thats why the psp one is better. on psp they use everything from shotguns to Holy Hand Grenades
Personally, I'd say that's more a bonus of the PSP version than a flaw of the DS one; no other version of Worms to date has had AI that can use every weapon, with the possible exception of Worms 1.
AI is a massively difficult thing to design and code, especially for a game like Worms and especially on a non-ridiculously-overspec'd handheld like the DS. The important thing is that it can give you a decent game on normal schemes, not that it can cope with every contingency like a human would.
There's a difference between software that has a bug and a user who has unreasonable expectations. The bottom line is...
It's getting a little boring now. All I have to do is hide down a tunnel and fly super sheep at the AI.
...then stop doing that.
Set yourself a rule that you're not allowed to, or turn off super sheep (or limit them to 1). Don't play the AI at schemes the AI is not deisgned to cope with. Of course that will get easy and boring. Play the game how it was designed and it will work better.

810Damage
23 Dec 2007, 21:54
Personally, I'd say that's more a bonus of the PSP version than a flaw of the DS one; no other version of Worms to date has had AI that can use every weapon, with the possible exception of Worms 1.
AI is a massively difficult thing to design and code, especially for a game like Worms and especially on a non-ridiculously-overspec'd handheld like the DS. The important thing is that it can give you a decent game on normal schemes, not that it can cope with every contingency like a human would.
There's a difference between software that has a bug and a user who has unreasonable expectations. The bottom line is...
...then stop doing that.
Set yourself a rule that you're not allowed to, or turn off super sheep (or limit them to 1). Don't play the AI at schemes the AI is not deisgned to cope with. Of course that will get easy and boring. Play the game how it was designed and it will work better.
I agree wit you bro and see what your saying cause I have the ds version now so ok then;)

Vader
23 Dec 2007, 22:42
Since when is Worms a single-player game, really?
Get with the programme!

Luther
31 Dec 2007, 19:19
The AI on the PSP version uses all the weapons effectively. I can't comment on the DS version's AI, since it was coded by a third party.

hmk_worms
7 Jan 2008, 12:58
no other version of Worms to date has had AI that can use every weapon, with the possible exception of Worms 1.
nah. even the first had weapons the AI couldn't use. Ninja Rope and Kamikaze were out of use, also the AI didn't use mines.
I have to say the PSP AI is very impressive (although a little too impressive - some of the exploitation of landscape 'bounces' to get grenades home is a little godlike) and it's even demonstrated new skills to me. Multi-ninja roping to cross a cavern is great!

Wise1
8 Jan 2008, 19:28
Lol, the AI uses Super Sheep and Holy Hand Grenades on me all the time, and I use the DS version. I dunno why they won't on everyone else, maybe I'm special. :P

oya
18 Jan 2008, 22:26
Lol, the AI uses Super Sheep and Holy Hand Grenades on me all the time, and I use the DS version. I dunno why they won't on everyone else, maybe I'm special. :P
Wow, really? Never seen a super sheep used. The AI has always been handicapped by lack of using anything that doesn't just "shoot and release" (so no roping/jetpacking/supersheeping), but I've seen it do any kind of targeted strike, and of course its greatest asset is accurately calculating angle/fuse/wind variables for 'nades and zooks.
If you create a scheme similar to Metal or BnG, where you don't have access to the high-movement items, you get a much better fight out of the AI (and you get practice for those occasional online matches).

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