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`CaTa`
28 Oct 2010, 05:34
Hi,
Can you help me, my display is very jerky when I play... all drivers are updated.
I looked / tryed for many solutions before posting with google, this forum.. always still same problem.
Maybe incompatibilitie(s) with DirectX 11, but I dont think so. I read that DirectX versions are backward, but who know :)
I'm actually running on Windows 7.
Q6600
Asus P5Q Deluxe
HD5770 Flex Edition
4 Go DDR2
HD 500GO Western Caviar
Please help me, I'm really bored of this !
Thank you in advance.

CyberShadow
28 Oct 2010, 06:35
Did you update to 3.6.30.0 yet?

`CaTa`
28 Oct 2010, 07:03
Thank you,
Yeah I updated with the last one. Works perfectly on seven :) except this problem.

`CaTa`
29 Oct 2010, 01:47
No other idea ?!
:/

CyberShadow
29 Oct 2010, 08:22
Does reducing the background detail level (by pressing Insert) help?

Lei
29 Oct 2010, 11:52
Um... sorry to hijack your thread, but I am having the same problem.
Specs:
Win7 64 bit
Gigabyte h55m-s2h mobo
sapphire 5770
4gb ddr3 RAM
500gb hdd
...very similar to OP's build.
I have tried reducing background details; there is a slight improvement although still quite unplayable. Have also tried tinkering with all the Advanced options including trying with the default ones, still no positive outcome.
One note that may be important though, I currently have no internet connection at home and so when I installed WA, then updated to .29 and .30, I was not able to install that GFX update that it asks for (something about worm team colors or something), just
saying this as maybe this has an effect.
Thanks in advance; Can't wait to play worms to its fullest again and resume map making. :D
EDIT:
Also, there is a delay when I right click the current map to select a custom map, and its quite noticeable. And I DON'T see the loading pie anymore. o_o

CyberShadow
29 Oct 2010, 12:39
Did you have this problem in 3.6.29.0?

Lei
29 Oct 2010, 13:11
The thing is, this system is only 1 week old. Before this, I used to play on a laptop.
I tried doing a fresh install though and only updating until .29, and performance was actually worse.
Any more details I could give to determine the cause of this that could possibly help eradicate this problem?

CyberShadow
29 Oct 2010, 15:28
Don't be surprised that W:A doesn't work very well on new systems. Hardware manufacturers don't care about compatibility with old games, because only a small percent of their user base plays them.
We're pretty busy right now with fixing the regressions in 3.6.30.0, but when you do get Internet access on the problematic computer, contact me and we could try doing some debugging and see if we can improve the situation.

`CaTa`
29 Oct 2010, 20:52
Does reducing the background detail level (by pressing Insert) help?
I always play with the black background.
But I noticed that, when I activate the double buffering option, my display come back to normal, no more jerk but its like I'm playing with gravity. :eek:
Um... sorry to hijack your thread, but I am having the same problem.
Specs:
Win7 64 bit
Gigabyte h55m-s2h mobo
sapphire 5770
4gb ddr3 RAM
500gb hdd
...very similar to OP's build.
Strange we have the same GPU, and same problem... maybe that card or driver get some issues.
Thanks you.

CyberShadow
1 Nov 2010, 09:55
But I noticed that, when I activate the double buffering option, my display come back to normal, no more jerk but its like I'm playing with gravity. :eek:
Double buffering should be enabled by default, and will almost certainly have better performance that when it's disabled.

franpa
1 Nov 2010, 13:24
Cata, if your ATI/Nvidia control panel has the ability to force Triple buffering, turn it off. It should solve input lag when enabling Vsync.

`CaTa`
2 Nov 2010, 01:13
Cata, if your ATI/Nvidia control panel has the ability to force Triple buffering, turn it off. It should solve input lag when enabling Vsync.
Hi,
Thanks for posting, I tryed that. In the Catalyst Control Center I've this option but dont change, always same thing :/. Can you tell me more about Vsync ? Vsync and Double/Triple buffering are same things ?
I noticed an another thing, when I play offline ~especially rope games :D~ I dont have this jerky display. Strange, very strange and annoying.

rA`xKatiex
2 Nov 2010, 03:41
Ok peepz
I had this exact same problem :( But guess what? Found a way to fix it :)
Symptoms: Your playing a game (with or without insert on/off) and during play it is like it pauses, flickers and jitters as if it is rendering/buffering while you are playing.
Basically this was so damn annoying and i tried everything.. Changing drivers (Id just updated to the new DX11 and as y'all know, Once dx11 is on, It CANNOT come off.. so i tried adding DX 8 and 9 extra updates (its ok to do this) but still the problem wouldn't go away..
How i play worms :
I have the original Disc. I used to use Daemon tools, but now i use Alchohol 120% to create disc Image and then Mount it to a virtual drive. Its the best way to load it quicker + not burn out drive + keep original Disc 100%
So when we install worms we usually just install it onto C: and then go from there, and for a while it works 100% but then this problem happened to me.
Sad to say, While fixing the presets wether you are with nvidia or Ati or whoever, And while going thru windows settings of Priority upon graphics MAY help in the short-term it will NOT fix the problem
NOTE: this fix will help people who use Multiple Hard drives. I you do not Have multiple HDD's it is a sign your HDD is having problems, And may be on the way out.
NOTE 2: When this happened to me i had just replaced a HDD so it was brand new. It was also a WD caviar green drive. DO NOT BUY THEM.
To fix this problem, Backup all your team info and maps etc ONLY..
Kill everything off including Reg keys if any
Clean clean clean :) Kill off Virtual Drive (if using one) then restart
Re image disc..
Install worms on your Other drive. Make sure this drive is Dedicated for backup.. I.E installing worms on a other HDD with another O.S on it May fix your problem but i only did it on a backup drive so i cannot confirm or deny.
Install wormkit (if desired) + Updates etc..
Configure prosnooper/Wheatsnooper to your liking (if used)
Thats it!!!!!:p
Sounds so simple doesn't it?. And this problem just screams graphics card/driver problem But its not the case.
I spent 3 days working on this and about 1.4 GB worth of drivers on and off trying to fix.. this solution fixed it in less than a hour : )
Katja:)

Lei
4 Nov 2010, 11:07
Don't be surprised that W:A doesn't work very well on new systems. Hardware manufacturers don't care about compatibility with old games, because only a small percent of their user base plays them.
We're pretty busy right now with fixing the regressions in 3.6.30.0, but when you do get Internet access on the problematic computer, contact me and we could try doing some debugging and see if we can improve the situation.
cool... ok I shall contact you soon.
Weird enough, I tried running fraps and recording a video while roping around in WA, and to my amazement, the game ran smoothly (or with very minimal difference). Lags/flickers/low fps returns when I stop recording again. Hmm...

franpa
4 Nov 2010, 12:34
Try disabling power saving features for your CPU in the computers BIOS and also under Power Settings in the Control Panel in Windows.

Lei
6 Nov 2010, 09:11
^Tried it. Sadly, no improvement. :(
Thanks though.

`CaTa`
7 Nov 2010, 05:16
Thanks for you Long post Katie, I tried what u said, that dont work... ty very much tought... and I did that too :
I formatted my Hard drive, installed Seven x64.. always same problem. Deleted WA, Ccleaner and reinstalled with the 3.6.29.0 Update.. works CooL no more jerk... but Its like I'm playing with gravity.. any idea for this other problem... I'm really really bored !! PlZ help :)
Or I'm going to install W2K :D

zookman
7 Nov 2010, 08:42
Sounds like you're having something similar to my old problem, damn ATI 5xxx series :@
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40825
Check that your versions match mine:
http://imgur.com/36DZ6.jpg
I think the packaging version will differ as mine is a mobility GPU.
While messing around with different drivers, sometimes I found that it didn't upgrade at all, and I had to use Driver Sweeper to force removal of old drivers.
ATI drivers in my experience have been a bit hit and miss, they might fix one problem but cause another.
Might be worth trying older drivers, but I wouldn't go for any before 10.5.
good luck.

orbik
7 Nov 2010, 12:46
I had this exact same problem :( But guess what? Found a way to fix it :)
Symptoms: Your playing a game (with or without insert on/off) and during play it is like it pauses, flickers and jitters as if it is rendering/buffering while you are playing.
(...)
Could you describe the symptoms more specifically? It might be related to the following.
I've encountered bad jittering when I first tried to play W:A on a Thinkpad X40, which presumably turned out to be caused by the replay file appends of WA. Specifically, the game paused briefly (around 50-100ms) regularly every second or so, and I heard the hard drive writing to the platters during the pauses.
Unfortunately WA doesn't seem to allow disabling saving replays (why?), so how about just rerouting them to /dev/null? Windows has symlinks (junctions) but it didn't seem to work with NUL (equivalent of /dev/null).
So my solution: Get a ramdisk driver and symlink the replay folder (WA\User\Games) to that. Problem solved! ..or worked around rather.
But the questions remain: why does writing to the file make the game freeze for a moment? I/O buffers and write caches exist so that should never happen even on slow drives. Unless W:A actually forces cache flush on each write. :confused: I could imagine that being caused inadvertently when trying to prevent looking at the replay during the game. Cybershadoow! Can you (un)confirm? :D

Muzer
7 Nov 2010, 17:20
Could you describe the symptoms more specifically? It might be related to the following.
I've encountered bad jittering when I first tried to play W:A on a Thinkpad X40, which presumably turned out to be caused by the replay file appends of WA. Specifically, the game paused briefly (around 50-100ms) regularly every second or so, and I heard the hard drive writing to the platters during the pauses.
Unfortunately WA doesn't seem to allow disabling saving replays (why?), so how about just rerouting them to /dev/null? Windows has symlinks (junctions) but it didn't seem to work with NUL (equivalent of /dev/null).
So my solution: Get a ramdisk driver and symlink the replay folder (WA\User\Games) to that. Problem solved! ..or worked around rather.
But the questions remain: why does writing to the file make the game freeze for a moment? I/O buffers and write caches exist so that should never happen even on slow drives. Unless W:A actually forces cache flush on each write. :confused: I could imagine that being caused inadvertently when trying to prevent looking at the replay during the game. Cybershadoow! Can you (un)confirm? :D
You must have had an exceptionally bad HDD - I run WA on my netbook with a really slow SSD (SD card speed) and it runs flawlessly.
No idea whether or not this works, but did you try deleting the Games directory and making it a file instead? Or making the dir read-only?

CyberShadow
7 Nov 2010, 18:44
Yes, W:A flushes the replay file on every write. The reasoning is to prevent a crash from leaving an incomplete replay.
I suppose that the problem is that fflush - additionally to flushing the runtime buffers - also asks the OS to write the data to disk immediately. I'll look into turning off runtime buffering for the replay file instead, which should still protect against W:A crashes, but not strain the disk so much.

`CaTa`
8 Nov 2010, 13:36
Sounds like you're having something similar to my old problem, damn ATI 5xxx series :@
http://forum.team17.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40825
Check that your versions match mine:
http://imgur.com/36DZ6.jpg
I think the packaging version will differ as mine is a mobility GPU.
While messing around with different drivers, sometimes I found that it didn't upgrade at all, and I had to use Driver Sweeper to force removal of old drivers.
ATI drivers in my experience have been a bit hit and miss, they might fix one problem but cause another.
Might be worth trying older drivers, but I wouldn't go for any before 10.5.
good luck.
Hi, Thanks for asnwering me. Take a look at this screen :
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8074/ccc.jpg
Its exactly the same version as yours, I dont understand you've a Mobility Version and I've a Desktop Version.
I read on your Topic you solved the problem, but i Did not understood all ;) You mean you installed an older version of ccc ?

rA`xKatiex
8 Nov 2010, 13:44
Thanks for you Long post Katie, I tried what u said, that dont work... ty very much tought... and I did that too :
I formatted my Hard drive, installed Seven x64..
tried what i said ?? Lol not really..:P:P:P
When i said that its more than likely your HDD, Simply doing a wipe (even with a program like wipedrive) will not fix it. Even if one of your HDD monitors says everything is in the green, it can still be fooky..
Again i note: i had just purchased a brand New HDD and when i installed worms on it, i had this problem. so i decided to use that new HDD as a backup drive and stick in a older HDD and worms worked perfectly.
Visualisation settings and how your computer chooses to base its performance is just another thing that can sometimes help As worms grabs info to create replays (as someone has said in previous post.)
Nvidia + Ati (ATI just got bought out btw so expect fewer driver updates:( ) updates from 2009 onwards seem to be affecting a lot of games, And yeah Rollbacks don't always get everything off, but there are specific tools on the net that scan for any related files and kill them off for you..
I will say this though.. if you do as i suggested and purchase a new (NON wd HDD) and then install worms (durr and ur os ofc :P ) and worms still jitters, i owe you a map.
-Katja-

rA`xKatiex
8 Nov 2010, 13:50
One other thing
Cata, i know you said you had a NON gigabyte Mobo.. but for anyone else stupid enough like me to get one plz note
Gigabyte board from 05->> have a consistency to eventually fail..
"Y'all roll eyes.. ofc:P
What i am saying is that due to the design and gigabyte making their Mobos Paper thin, after prolonged exposure to heat (wether it is actual heat or Graphics card/poor air circulation heat) the mObo can slightly warp and this affects the RAM and slightly changes the timings re: ram Misfire-> google
This can also have an affect on the game, But im sticking by my Roll back to Bare minimum G card Drivers and stick in a new HDD
Hope Y'all get it sorted :)
-Katja-

zookman
8 Nov 2010, 15:20
I read on your Topic you solved the problem, but i Did not understood all ;) You mean you installed an older version of ccc ?
No, My issue was eventually fixed with a driver update.
And as you have the latest drivers, I don't think your problem is driver related.

CyberShadow
9 Nov 2010, 04:03
Unless W:A actually forces cache flush on each write. :confused:
I had another look at this, and as far as I can see, W:A does not force a disk flush on files (neither directly or by using fflush - fflush does not call FlushFileBuffers). I verified this by writing a WormKit module which saves a minidump each time the FlushFileBuffers function is called. Aside from 24 calls at the start originating in an nVidia DLL, I haven't seen any FlushFileBuffers calls during the game.
You could try the module and see if it drops lots of minidumps to your W:A directory. If it does, then some client-side module (antivirus, perhaps?) is forcing flushes - post the minidumps and I'll have a look. If it doesn't, then it's something deeper (kernel-side - a driver or the OS itself).
Have you perhaps checked if buffering was turned off for your hard drive?

Deadcode
9 Nov 2010, 04:21
Unless W:A actually forces cache flush on each write. :confused:
Probably a stupid question, but, are you sure you actually have write caching enabled on the drive on which W:A is installed?

`CaTa`
9 Nov 2010, 16:03
Hi,
Have you perhaps checked if buffering was turned off for your hard drive?
Where can I check this ?
@-Katja- My Mobo is ASUS. I dont have a second HDD, then i formatted it and reinstalled 7 x64. Thats the only thing I could do with one drive. I'll try to borrow an IDE or SATA drive to a friend if it works I'll buy an new one. :) But read below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I formatted again and reinstalled XP PRO with all last updates, SP3, framework, etc.. and I really think its a problem with Double-Buffering and / or GPU because when I activate Double-Buffering, the screen is very very fluid / runny BUT the gameplay is very slow I feel like I'm playing with gravity, not playable. When I disable Double-Buffering the gameplay is normal but with permanent Jerks / Not fluid.
Come on ! Must be solution. Double-Buffering settings or something else. :rolleyes::mad: Please...
Thanks By Advance.

`CaTa`
10 Nov 2010, 08:31
Sorry for double posting but I forgot to say something maybe important. When I play TOWER RACE or Big_RR Schemes, gameplay is normal, no jerks, no laags. Then can we think its about resolutions of maps ?

CyberShadow
10 Nov 2010, 14:01
Yes, that's possible.
You could try and see if the lags start when the map is below a certain size, or if they gradually decrease with the map size.

DrMelon
10 Nov 2010, 14:23
I entered this thread expecting a monitor made out of strips of dried beef. :c

CakeDoer
10 Nov 2010, 19:59
Glad I'm not the only one!

`CaTa`
11 Nov 2010, 23:56
You could try and see if the lags start when the map is below a certain size, or if they gradually decrease with the map size.
Hi,
I noticed that on Big Maps those laggs are less present.
Yes, that's possible.
I looked on Web, GooGLe (not my best friend) but I didnt found how. Can you tell me more please ?

CyberShadow
12 Nov 2010, 01:13
Well, we have not encountered this problem before, so you'll have to be the one telling us about it. So you'll have to gather as many details as you can find to help us solve the problem. For example:
Does the lag appear strictly for maps under some exact size, or is it a smooth transition?

`CaTa`
12 Nov 2010, 14:08
If maps is larger than 1920*696 lag is here but not that present. And if map is 1920*696 lag is here. Its not lag from conection, lloks like all images are not displayed correctly, I'll try to make a video If I can, I hope you understood what my "lag" word mean :)
I'm running under DX11 Version, last catalyst.
Windows Seven Ultimate version x64.
If you wanna know more informations, just aske me.
And thank you a lot.

CyberShadow
12 Nov 2010, 14:15
If maps is larger than 1920*696 lag is here but not that present. And if map is 1920*696 lag is here. Exactly that size? If you make it only 8 pixels taller, can you tell the difference?
If you turn on the background gradient, do you see any difference in performance?

orbik
13 Nov 2010, 11:35
I had another look at this, and as far as I can see, W:A does not force a disk flush on files (neither directly or by using fflush - fflush does not call FlushFileBuffers). I verified this by writing a WormKit module which saves a minidump each time the FlushFileBuffers function is called. Aside from 24 calls at the start originating in an nVidia DLL, I haven't seen any FlushFileBuffers calls during the game.
You could try the module and see if it drops lots of minidumps to your W:A directory. If it does, then some client-side module (antivirus, perhaps?) is forcing flushes - post the minidumps and I'll have a look. If it doesn't, then it's something deeper (kernel-side - a driver or the OS itself).
Have you perhaps checked if buffering was turned off for your hard drive?
Tested the module and no minidumps were written. So apparently the problem is in the HDD driver or deeper. :eek: There's a checkmark in "Enable write caching on this disk" in device properties, but now I'm not convinced it's working properly. :( Maybe there's a more suitable hdd driver somewhere.
Anyway, could there be an option to disable writing replay files altogether? That should have more uses than this issue, space and fragmentation concerns at least.

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