creating better skilled computer team [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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PhaniaX
30 Jul 2008, 01:18
hi!
I was wondering, would it be possible to get the computer teams more skilled?
As in:
if I select all weapons in the weaponmenu, the computerteam will never use a bananabomb, but always the green grenate or the bazooka.
How can I make the computer use the superweapons, instead of always that green grenate? (this while all weapons selected)
Also, why do the computerteams not use any of the next:
-rope
-baseballstick
-Ax
any options to change this??
thanks for anyone who got an answer :D

robowurmz
30 Jul 2008, 09:33
As the updates come along, I'm sure that they'll be able to make the AI use those high-skill weapons.
However, there's not any way to make the computer tougher than its maximum level currently. Sorry.

Verisumi
31 Jul 2008, 18:57
Indeed, the computer worms can only use certain weapons because there's no calculations for the others. Say, with a nade for example, there's different calculations that are made before the worm takes the shot. The higher the skill level, the better the calculations (like bounce, accuracy, timer, etc.). But with something like the super sheep, the computer worms don't know how to use those, because like I said, there's no calculations programmed in the game for those. Hope that helped a bit.

Chip
31 Jul 2008, 22:24
And yet the old Sega Megadrive / Gensis version of worms had them using weapons like Blow-tourch / Dragon ball (over a distance) and other un-expected weapons.

[UFP]Ghost
31 Jul 2008, 22:38
why not make the computer use it as a homing weapon that works every time as long as there's an open path, they do use homing right?

franpa
1 Aug 2008, 00:18
They use good or bad calculations depending on there difficulty setting, nothing is homed (except homing weapons of course, duh).

[UFP]Ghost
1 Aug 2008, 03:03
They use good or bad calculations depending on there difficulty setting, nothing is homed (except homing weapons of course, duh).
yes and since the computer would have the ability to not screw up a super sheep, since it has computer reflexes and whatnot...they should use super sheep and be good with it. Why not make the less skilled not use it as well as not inflict as much damage. But i think they should use it as a infallible homing system.

b1llygo4t
1 Aug 2008, 04:57
i know someone made a program that could find the quickest route through a battle race(?), im sure if someone had a goal and a means to implement it, worms a.i. could get better in some aspects. but the fact is, the way a majority of people play worms (online) isnt how the game was designed to be played, and there are no paid programmers to crunch out the code for something like roping worms. also unless(until?) deadcode or cyber shadow implement rules scheme settings other than time release weapons and limited arsenal, we wont ever see an a.i. capable of shoppa or rr.
the development software for wa is only available to dc and cs, and for a good reason. imagine the cheat hacks that could come from a "3rd party" development of a.i. using a homing super sheep and other "work arounds" for weapons (i saw a thread once that talked of a cheat and had a replay of a worm firing a holy nade at the ground that bounced around a bunch and landed on an enemy worm. the problem was "resolved")
it would be cool to have worms that did a specific action each turn and had their own arsenal, this could lead to new schemes for multi player (mine strike!)
"i"(me) wish i had a usb mouse for my laptop.

Plasma
1 Aug 2008, 12:37
In short, Team17 didn't program the AI to use some weapons back in the 2nd Generation because they didn't have enough recourses and their programmers aren't as skilled as they are now. The AI in the modern Worms games use all weapons, IIRC.

yakuza
1 Aug 2008, 13:51
In short, Team17 didn't program the AI to use some weapons back in the 2nd Generation because they didn't have enough recourses and their programmers aren't as skilled as they are now. The AI in the modern Worms games use all weapons, IIRC.
I want to add that I doubt that it would be practical to develop AI for all weapons in the 2D generation even now with the current team, in fact, I doubt any programming team out there, proffesional or not would take on such a task, there's just too many variables in 2D worms, the physics over complicate things, too. It wouldn't be too hard for them to progam grenade-like weapons, or even airstrikes or homing missiles, although with the latter I'm sure the CPU would make lots of stupid choices. Rope, jetpack, bungee and chute? Now that would be crazy.

Metal Alex
1 Aug 2008, 17:26
In short, Team17 didn't program the AI to use some weapons back in the 2nd Generation because they didn't have enough recourses and their programmers aren't as skilled as they are now. The AI in the modern Worms games use all weapons, IIRC.
To be fair, the latest games have way less than half of the weapons in WA :p

b1llygo4t
2 Aug 2008, 03:19
thats because half the weapons in wa are clones with a minor adjustment and a different animation. but hey the more the merrier

yakuza
2 Aug 2008, 10:46
thats because half the weapons in wa are clones with a minor adjustment and a different animation. but hey the more the merrier
What's your point? If we take "clones" out WA has still way more weapons.

Plasma
2 Aug 2008, 10:59
Rope, jetpack, bungee and chute? Now that would be crazy.
Actually, the AI does know how to use a jetpack in W:ASO.

Chip
2 Aug 2008, 11:58
I always dream of the AI teams in WA being able to use all the weapons, it would make the game so much more fun.....but I just don't see it being implimented.
When this ingame fiddler like program gets added and if we can "add" weapons instead of replacing old ones then I would like to have a section called "How AI handles weapon" for each weapon.
This'll have a list of weapons that the AI can use so really you're telling the AI that this weapon works like something they already can use allowing them to actually use it well.
Also there will be a priority number which'll make them use this weapon more likely or less likely then other weapons of the same works like.
Example: AI can use grenade / cluster / holy hand / banana bomb but it almost always uses Grenade over everything, so giving priority values in your newly made weapons can make the AI use this new weapon as common, as rare or more than any of the other weapons of the same workslike.
Making the AI use more weapons is a great thing and once we can make our own weapons - making the AI use them as well would be awesome!

balver
2 Aug 2008, 12:29
When this ingame fiddler like program gets added and if we can "add" weapons instead of replacing old ones then I would like to have a section called "How AI handles weapon" for each weapon.
This probably would require implementing something like LUA scripting into W:A. Something like programmable bots in Blobby Volley 2, I think.

yakuza
2 Aug 2008, 12:39
Actually, the AI does know how to use a jetpack in W:ASO.
Which is by no means comparable to WA's engine. So I'm missing the point of that 'Actually'.

robowurmz
2 Aug 2008, 17:16
In the future, I'm sure DC and Cyber will be able to add more AI. We just have to patient.

b1llygo4t
4 Aug 2008, 03:48
yakuza what is your point?

yakuza
4 Aug 2008, 08:26
yakuza what is your point?
My original point is that having the CPU use all weapons would be too hard to be worth it. And that development should focus on the online mode.

StoneFrog
4 Aug 2008, 15:29
Undoubtedly.
Though "clones" could be coded easily. All other weapons though aren't worth the time. Frankly I'd be happy enough if they'd make the computer stop showing off its bazooka hax by making it shoot a bazooka that arcs up and behind them hitting me when I'm RIGHT BEHIND THEM. Seriously, there'd be more efficient weapons for dealing with me at that range, but the computer loves that there bazooka. :U

Chip
4 Aug 2008, 19:40
Here's some ideas for weapon codes on the concept of "works-like" or "clone" code;
Flame thrower: Uses the Hangun, Uzi or minigun code but have a hack that stops it using the weapon if its aiming at a target too far away (if it does then simply use the Uzi)
Battle-axe: Uses the firepunch code but have a hack making it only use the weapon if the targeted worm has a lot of HP or / and can make clear contact else just use firepunch.
Baseball bat: Uses the Firepunch code but have a hack making it only use the weapon if it has clear contact with the target (so it doesn't try standing undernieth the target and trying to shoot upwards like what Firepunch does)
Minestrike: Uses the airstrike code.
Armageddon: Uses the skip go code :p (this is mostly just a joke but I think its pretty cool - imagine if the AI has an Armageddon but can't do anything else in its turn and so it would normally skip go but instead it'll use that Armageddon!!!)
Earthquake: Same as above :p
Indian nuclear test strike: Same as above :p
Homing missile: Use the Bazooka code to fire but use the non wind resposive airstrike code to target (so it clicks directly on the target) Basically it tells the AI its using a Bazooka so it would choose that where it would normally try a bazooka but then it is forced into an airstrike attack and so it clicks to strike....(but really its targeting where to home but the AI doesn't know that).... afterwhich, the AI is taken back to its bazooka code to fire that missile - the homing function of the weapon then does the rest.
Mortar: Now, I've seen the AI throw a 4 or 5 second grenade vertically up only to strike a target just a few feet away from it as if there were a massive invisible wall reaching right up to the clouds and beond and it had to throw the weapon into space just to get over it. Perhaps the AI could be told to use the Mortar instead of doing that?

Metal Alex
4 Aug 2008, 23:12
The hard part seems not to be how to use them... but WHEN to use them...

StoneFrog
4 Aug 2008, 23:42
That's the Worms AI's biggest fault, IMO.

PhaniaX
3 Oct 2008, 01:31
ok guys, I read it all :D
thanks so much for your responses,
but I'm getting more and more questions now I hear this all.
So actually somebody could be able to re-programm the worms so they could use all the weapons.
It's actually a bit weird, they aren't using the homing missile, while they can use airattacks. the weird thing also is, if I would give the worms only 2 weapons: banana bomb and the super banana bomb, they'll always use the banana bomb.
I wish I could do some coding, but yeah... roping worms would be very hard to create, but the game would be way more skilled if the worms could actually do anything which normal players also can do. :P

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