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Wormetti
11 Mar 2007, 08:01
If you get approval from MS to release a patch for the 4 player crash bug, is there any chance of adding other changes to that patch?
I would like to be able to see the health of all teams at all times or on request, at the moment it's only displayed for a few seconds at the start of your turn. I have many more suggestions but from what I've read about the certification process, just releasing a tiny bug fix will be enough of a headache, so I don't expect anything other than bug fixes.
If an update is released, will it just fix the 4 player crash or will you fix some other less serious bugs?

SpaceInsom
11 Mar 2007, 08:49
If you get approval from MS to release a patch for the 4 player crash bug, is there any chance of adding other changes to that patch?
I would like to be able to see the health of all teams at all times, at the moment it's only displayed for a few seconds.
That reminds me of another good one. Why do I have to switch to the Bazooka just to see which way the wind is blowing? Just another easy fix that should have been noticed before the game went live.

phoenix96
11 Mar 2007, 19:07
That reminds me of another good one. Why do I have to switch to the Bazooka just to see which way the wind is blowing? Just another easy fix that should have been noticed before the game went live.
That's a good point. It would be handy to be able to see wind all the time.

Lebowski
12 Mar 2007, 09:52
The wind indicator is only shown for weapons affected by the wind. In this version that's just the Bazooka. What other reason would you like to see it for?

SpaceInsom
12 Mar 2007, 10:29
The wind indicator is only shown for weapons affected by the wind. In this version that's just the Bazooka. What other reason would you like to see it for?
Hey, thanks for answering. I've only played the PC versions before, but they've always had the wind indicator showing at all times. The reason I feel it should always be done this way is because depending on the wind direction, I may or may not want to use the bazooka.
If I'm on a cliff, and there's a worm under the cliff, I very well might want to use a bazooka if the wind is blowing towards me. That would mean I could fire into the wind and loop the shot around to hit my enemy. The way the game is now, I need to switch to the bazooka to see if I even want to use the weapon. Mix that with the fact that switching weapons on a controller takes much more time than in the PC version, and I'm forced to throw away part of my turn time.
There have already been several times where I switched to the bazooka, found I didn't want to use it because of the wind, and by the end of my turn I ran out of time trying to finish moving and using a 2nd plan of action.
It not really that big a deal, but it worked better before, and I don't really see any reason why it should have changed.

gcowell
12 Mar 2007, 10:33
I've had the same problem of needing to select the bazooka in order to see if it's even worth selecting the bazooka.

Lebowski
12 Mar 2007, 10:36
Good point. The removal of the wind indicator was a design decision to clean up the HUD seems the idea of wanting to see the wind to decide to use the bazooka or not was missed.

SpaceInsom
12 Mar 2007, 10:44
Good point. The removal of the wind indicator was a design decision to clean up the HUD seems the idea of wanting to see the wind to decide to use the bazooka or not was missed.
I’m surprised you guys haven't run into similar circumstances, but I'm glad to see you agree.

parsley
12 Mar 2007, 11:04
I've had the same problem of needing to select the bazooka in order to see if it's even worth selecting the bazooka.
Whoops. I can see that being a touch irritating.

Lagster
12 Mar 2007, 12:40
yeh it does a bit especially on rounds with less time, because at start of every round you have to select bazooka for a 'wind check' then depending on its direction decide what weapon your actually going to use.

phoenix96
12 Mar 2007, 19:22
Good point. The removal of the wind indicator was a design decision to clean up the HUD seems the idea of wanting to see the wind to decide to use the bazooka or not was missed.
Maybe the wind indicator could show up any time the weapon selection box was on the screen? That way it's not always in the way but would be there when you're making your weapon choice without actually having to go over and select the bazooka.

parsley
12 Mar 2007, 22:32
Right peeps, in terms of Team17, I'm just a guy with an opinion, no more than you guys (I'm a progammer, not a designer), but, MY GOD, I am so going to fight for it. I'm sorry, but it never occurred to anyone that that would be the outcome: having to select the bazooka in order to see if the bazooka is worth selecting. Bad, bad, bad.
No promises, but I'll make sure that I, firstly, make people aware, and, secondly, push as hard as I can to make it better.

Plasma
12 Mar 2007, 23:34
HUZZAH! A suggestion post that actually is useful!!
Oh, how I've waited so long for this moment... *sniff*

velocity
13 Mar 2007, 11:56
Yeah, the wind thing was a bit of an annoyance too. I've another wee suggestion, it would be interesting if anyone agrees. On ranked games the shotgun is on infinite and I notice that everyone just goes ahead and uses it all the time as its a guaranteed 50 pts. I think this should haver been limited to encourage further use of the other more skill based weapons.
What do you think?
Oh and the mines could be adjusted.

Lagster
13 Mar 2007, 12:14
shotty's only 50 guaranteed if they got a line of sight and close to you. in which case i dont see why they shouldn't use whatevers best.
If i'm up against someone who 'over uses' shotgun i tend to teleport away and see how they fare with lobbing some grenades or whatever. on ranked scheme as well they cant just jetpack over to you as well. shotguns near enough is certain to do 50 but its also certain not to do any more than that because they dont move worms much, a grenade which only does 45(im sure gren's/baz's used to do 50 also) is far more likely to launch a worm which could end up doing a lot more than 50.
p.s. whats the deal with the uzi its limited use but complete rubbish, am i missing some tactical advantage it has?

SpaceInsom
13 Mar 2007, 12:27
p.s. whats the deal with the uzi its limited use but complete rubbish, am i missing some tactical advantage it has?
Not unless I'm missing it too. I HATE getting that awful thing in crates. Team 17, is there something we're missing about the Uzi?

velocity
13 Mar 2007, 13:58
[QUOTE=Lagster;566394] shotguns near enough is certain to do 50 but its also certain not to do any more than that because they dont move worms much, a grenade which only does 45(im sure gren's/baz's used to do 50 also) is far more likely to launch a worm which could end up doing a lot more than 50.
QUOTE]
Yeah, baz & gren used to do 50. I see your point but in the online experience I'm having everyone just goes for the shotgun, the garanteed 50. They aren't thinking about what else can happen with the other weapons. I suppose this is a product of reducing the damage of the gren & baz, as well as having a max 100 health.

Spadge
13 Mar 2007, 14:16
Please keep the suggestions coming. Whilst I certainly can't guarantee we will implement them, we'll certainly give them some thought.

egg
13 Mar 2007, 14:19
The uzi can be used to deadly effect in the following situations:
1) To push one or more worms much farther than you can with a dragon punch. With good aim you can push them a long way and over a cliff / into a mine.
2) The uzi can penetrate further into the landscape than any other weapon in the game. Very useful for sudden death situations where worms are dug in and think they are safe. The advantage here is the hole left isnt big enough for the ememy worm to traverse or fire back through.

Haoshiro
13 Mar 2007, 15:47
I agree with needing the wind indicator on all the time, that can be very frustrating... especially with low time on the clock. I was going to make a thread about this very thing.
As for the shutgun, it can be very good but if its being "over" used I'm not sure that's bad. It's not as good as the other weapons for doing group damage like Grenade and Bazooka.
Another bonus about the Uzi is that there is no backfire damage, even the shotgun can deal you damage if you fire too close (only 5 pts now though), so in cramped quarters its good.
I know the controls have been this way for a long time... but it seems to me that it would be better to have A by default always be shoot, even when on a rope. X could get you off the rope (which makes sense, since it is "Jump").
Many people I've introduced to worms (even Dreamcast versions, etc) are confused that "Fire" switches buttons.
One other complaint: Why do weapons/tools not always show quantity? It will not show a number next to Rope, yet after many uses you realize it actually does have a limit... (at least in Challenges this happened).

phoenix96
13 Mar 2007, 17:47
[QUOTE=Lagster;566394] shotguns near enough is certain to do 50 but its also certain not to do any more than that because they dont move worms much, a grenade which only does 45(im sure gren's/baz's used to do 50 also) is far more likely to launch a worm which could end up doing a lot more than 50.
QUOTE]
Yeah, baz & gren used to do 50. I see your point but in the online experience I'm having everyone just goes for the shotgun, the garanteed 50. They aren't thinking about what else can happen with the other weapons. I suppose this is a product of reducing the damage of the gren & baz, as well as having a max 100 health.
I'm seeing that as well: The shotgun is getting a lot more use compared to in the older games, and the bazooka is getting a lot less.

Melon
13 Mar 2007, 17:55
Actually, if you play a Normal game on WWP or WA online against those who play it seriously, the bazooka is rarely used. The shotgun could easily be used on half of the turns. It's essential, as it's close range and the only infinate weapon you start with where it's easy to do 50 damage.
On WA and WWP the bazzokas and grenades couldn't do 50 damage, due to the way the damage was calculated and the origins of the worm and the weapon, or something like that, so I read somewhere, I think, maybe.

WndrBr3d
13 Mar 2007, 19:13
How's about we dumb down the A.I. a bit?
Not that I want it to be super easy but it seems nine times out of ten the A.I. makes this amazing impossible shots that include bouncing weapons off the wall and precise use of the wind in their favor.
Seriously, it's almost laughable sometimes when the A.I. has the grenade bounce off three objects and timed just so, that it'll land on your worms head to a dead stop with one second left until it explodes.
Perhaps an option to like... make the A.I. less precise?

dyn4mi73
13 Mar 2007, 19:49
can we have it so we can choose how many objects to put in the maps ?

Haoshiro
13 Mar 2007, 20:00
can we have it so we can choose how many objects to put in the maps ?
Now that definitely isn't essential, but I always loved to play with JUST the land, no bridges or objects...
still, it's not that big a deal for me, and in context of "Worms" is understandable.
But the original worms didn't have objects...
Which reminds me, wish you could Blowtorch UP in a zig-zag fashion... you know... as if you were a real worm.

quakerworm
13 Mar 2007, 20:07
How's about we dumb down the A.I. a bit?
Not that I want it to be super easy but it seems nine times out of ten the A.I. makes this amazing impossible shots that include bouncing weapons off the wall and precise use of the wind in their favor.
Seriously, it's almost laughable sometimes when the A.I. has the grenade bounce off three objects and timed just so, that it'll land on your worms head to a dead stop with one second left until it explodes.
Perhaps an option to like... make the A.I. less precise?
ai has to take these "impossible" shots. its tactical skills are limited, and it must compensate for it by being deadly precise. with a little bit of practice you get to the point where you have no trouble taking out the highest difficulty ai even if 100% of ai's shots hit for full damage, so it needs to be that way.

iceydragon
13 Mar 2007, 21:04
I think the prod needs tweaking a bit...
...no seriously hear me out here, it may be the second most under-used weapon in the game (only beaten by surrender), but I was playing a game last night, opponents worm was on the edge of the land, and i prodded it only for it to move an extremely tiny amount that it is worthless as a weapon.
I will have a check to see if it was just the situation I was in, but just a tiny arc would be nice (like Armageddon), since it doesnt make it uber-powerful, but it then has somewhat of a use...
...and yes, I could of used the Fire Punch, but killing someone with prod is so more satisfying.

Plasma
13 Mar 2007, 21:24
On WA and WWP the bazzokas and grenades couldn't do 50 damage, due to the way the damage was calculated and the origins of the worm and the weapon, or something like that, so I read somewhere, I think, maybe.
Rubbish! The bazooka and grenade always did 50 damage each at a direct hit in the 2D games.

Melon
13 Mar 2007, 21:35
Really!!! In all my time playing Worms I have NEVER seen the damage go above 48. EVER.
Same with weapons like dynamite, I can't get that to do 75.
I know the maximum is 50, but I can't see how it's possible to get 50 damage, even with a direct hit at point blank.

quakerworm
13 Mar 2007, 21:45
the worms2 'zook did exactly 50hp of damage. i remember clearly that it was the same as two shots of a shotgun. i also remember that at least in some 2d games, the 'nade did only 45.
i believe, either in wa or wwp 'zook did 45 damage, but if you aimed it right, you'd get up to 3 hp of fall damage, bringing the total up to 48.

velocity
14 Mar 2007, 12:37
I assume that in the XBLA version the zook and 'ade don't do 50 damage because you can only start out with 100, which can't be changed. Games would be over too quickly then.
Unless you use the shotgun.

Wormetti
14 Mar 2007, 12:54
I use the shotgun more than any other weapon since most of the time, it does the most damage. I don't know what could be done about this, adjusting weapon damage would mess with many of the challenge times but something tells me that's going to happen anyway (if they fix one of the serious bugs). Shotgun has always been unlimited, it would be strange to change it now.
I rarely want to watch a replay of the shot I just did. Instead of automatic replay, it would be better if you could just pause the game and select "replay last turn". I would prefer it if you could skip replays with a button other than A (the fire button) since you could accidentally use a weapon and lose your turn.
I was going to mention the wind indicator in the first post but I hadn't fully tested when it appeared, I only knew that it wasn't always there. Great to know that someone from team17 is listening/reading.

velocity
14 Mar 2007, 14:40
On the ranked game scheme you could limit the shotgun to 2, that would change things.

Wormetti
14 Mar 2007, 20:07
In human military, a General is higher rank than a Major but the Worms seem to have it confused.

worMatty
17 Mar 2007, 23:29
Hi, lads. Sorry to mess you about.
If we're going to see a replay, it would be quicker if it was shown before the worms dying plungered, like in the second gen games. Currently, if you're not aware, the worms blow themselves up, then you get a replay. UPDATE: It replays the worms plungering themselves in slow motion. Massive. Also, sometimes I get a replay for blowing up a crate or something at the same time as scoring damage.
Bug: I just chucked a 'nade at a foe, it missed and landed next to one of my worms. Oops! The worm of mine said "Uh-oh!" and "Traitor!" at the same time just before and as the 'nade exploded, so it sounded like "Uh-traitor-oh!", sort of thing.
Three options I'd like to see in the scheme editor are mine timer, sheep heaven and anchorage. The first and last seem pretty basic but, like your worms taking their turns in order rather than using Select Worm, change the game strategy in a big way. Combining anchorage and sheep heaven would allow us to play SheepBnG, which is a nice side benefit, although the crate drop frequency would need to be increased to one every one or two turns for that to be effective. I understand if you think adding such options would blow up the game and make it less simple than you intended it to be.
I agree, it would be nice to be able to see the health bars all the time, or at least when you pause the game. Maybe you could reassign the back button to toggle that on and off.
Also, it would be nice to see the name of the person talking in the top left, rather than a circle with the worm shouting, in their colour. The names could be coloured instead. PGR 3 dunnit, that works. Gears of War didn't do it, and you have to press the L button to see who's talking, but that adds to the gameplay IMHO, but in Worms it don't. And as a reminder, those names could show up on the pause screen to show you who controls which team, though that's hardly essential.
Bug: In Challenge 12, an enemy worm (Holliday of the Hot-Shots) just teleported on top of a crate and the game thought I deserved to know there was 1x Cluster Bomb contained within.
Bug: Playing challenge 12 still, and after my turn the enemy starts to think about pizza, to which one of my worms shouts "Amazing!"
Something that's strange: The mines carry on bouncing in to the next worm's turn after they get dislodged. I haven't had one hurt any worm, yet, so either I've been unlucky and haven't seen what could be a bug, or the game is very clever and knows the mine won't hit anything so just carrys on with the game. However, if I drive my worm in to such a bouncing mine does that count? Is that possible or does the game know that I won't have time to select jetpack and become a kamikaze pilot?

Wormetti
18 Mar 2007, 07:47
I thought seeing what weapons the A.I gets in crates was intentional.

worMatty
18 Mar 2007, 10:34
That would be silly, unless the player is a noob.

SirPoonga
18 Mar 2007, 19:14
Not sure if it has been suggested but I'd like to allow a guest to play with my while online, like GRAW2 and Gears of War do.

worMatty
18 Mar 2007, 22:55
Check the sticky FAQ thread.

AndrewTaylor
18 Mar 2007, 23:38
Something that's strange: The mines carry on bouncing in to the next worm's turn after they get dislodged. I haven't had one hurt any worm, yet, so either I've been unlucky and haven't seen what could be a bug, or the game is very clever and knows the mine won't hit anything so just carrys on with the game. However, if I drive my worm in to such a bouncing mine does that count? Is that possible or does the game know that I won't have time to select jetpack and become a kamikaze pilot?
That is, I think, a bug which is being worked on for the next update.
I thought it was intentional that you could see what weapons the A.I gets in crates.
In WA people whined about this and the official line was always that this was the intention because AI games are designed to simulate local multiplayer, where everyone tends to know what people get because they watch it happen.

quakerworm
19 Mar 2007, 03:31
That is, I think, a bug which is being worked on for the next update.
actually, didn't they say it was part of the game mechanics? id est, not a bug to be fixed?

Lagster
19 Mar 2007, 12:46
I like the fact that you see what the AI picks up, without it im sure you'd see a ton of 'AI cheating - using more than 1 airstrike' type threads. so for that alone i think its a good thing lol

HomerRamon
20 Mar 2007, 13:27
Be nice if the Level Style configuration had options to set the number of landscape objects, and mines (Which I believe may have been in the PS1 version).
It would also be really nice to be able to put a real short fuse on the mines - so that you dont have time to walk around the land and effectivley defuse them.

worMatty
20 Mar 2007, 20:38
Have you ever been mine diving in W:2/WA/WWP? Just set the timer to zero and jump on to a line of them. It's really fun!

Luther
20 Mar 2007, 23:12
actually, didn't they say it was part of the game mechanics? id est, not a bug to be fixed?
No, you're thinking of mine damage being subtracted at the end of the turn.

bower
21 Mar 2007, 10:58
Random mine fuses please!, would be great, gets annoying when people just ninja rope into all the mines at the start of a round.:(

Tone
21 Mar 2007, 13:00
I would like to see the ability to mess with the gravity and how slippery the land is. Also, would like to see uber-worms with 100+ health, setting this in the options. Obviously, not in ranked games, but when messing around with my mates would be good to extend a particular match.
You could create match scenarios where by if player B loses three games in a row to player A then on the next match all worms on player B team get an extra 20 hp or similar..?
Would kinda balance it out. And before anyone moans about it - it could be an option to set, therefore if people didn't like that - they wouldn't need use it.
oh and, first post :D

DarthSmurf
21 Mar 2007, 16:26
This is very minor, but has happened to me a number of times. I'm on a ledge and just below the ledge is my target worm. Now I can either drop a mine over the ledge or use my shotgun. But I can't see where the ledge ends because the worm's name and stats are blocking it. I would like some way to hide the name so you can see what's behind it if you need to in these instances. I don't want to fall off the ledge by going too far and I don't want to drop the mine on the very edge of the ledge either.

tdmcg
22 Mar 2007, 18:33
It seems awfully unfair that in an online game my worms sometimes get created on top of a mine, or that I have three worms grouped so closely together that dynamite or a grenade can do massive damage to all three! These just seem unfair when some players are so spread out.

worMatty
22 Mar 2007, 19:05
They'll probably be fixing the mine thing. I've never seen the bunching thing before, though. Maybe one or two, but maybe I see as a challenge what you're seeing as a disadvantage.
Best thing to do is count how many teams there are, then make a note of the level code, for both problems.

Wormetti
22 Mar 2007, 20:44
Add more challenges that can be completed in one turn.

tdmcg
23 Mar 2007, 06:32
A couple more suggestions I have for the online game play are:
1. Allow free movement of the viewing screen. It is annoying when I want to scope out the playing field when it is not my turn and I can't do it very well because I basically have to watch the other players before I can plan my next attack.
2. If you are unfortunate enough to have all your worms die with a lot of time remaining and other players still playing the game, there should be an option to leave the game and still get credit for it and not be penalized for leaving early.
3. Knowing what the other players get in their crates would be nice, but that would also take-away a bit of the challenge.
4. Be able to pick from a list of games and not just be assigned to one.
5. Have different online gaming sections (i.e. Beginners, Intermediate, Expert, Kids-Only, etc.). It would be nice to have a safe place for the kids to play online without be subjected to the profanity.
6. A more user-friendly ranking board. Having more detailed stats, percentage of various weapon use, easier to navigate from top to bottom, search feature, etc.

poep98
23 Mar 2007, 07:25
A couple more suggestions I have for the online game play are:
5. Have different online gaming sections (i.e. Beginners, Intermediate, Expert, Kids-Only, etc.). It would be nice to have a safe place for the kids to play online without be subjected to the profanity.
errr, if they did make that pro's will go to beginners room and some sick people who like to swear allot will be joining the kids games so.....

worMatty
23 Mar 2007, 20:03
1. I agree, but in the meantime we can zoom out. Works a treat.
3. What's your point?
4. Use the custom match feature. It is impossible to choose which ranked match you want to enter because that can result in stacking, where people join games hosted by their friends, form alliances, behave idiotically, etc.
6. IMO there are not enough games in the lobby at any one time to warrant further dividing them in to rooms. Doing so would make finding a game long-winded. When someone hosts a game, their choice of scheme is displayed in the lobby, so if you want to join a beginner, intermediate or pro game you can see what there is and select a game that uses the scheme you want. It's simple and effective. Separating kids will not guarantee their security against profanity and idiotic behaviour. If you are concerned about leaving your kids unattanded at the Xbox 360, remove their ability to voice chat.
6. What exactly would you be searching for? I'm in favour of more stats but personally have no interest in weapon usage percentages and stuff like that. I don't think it's going to give me a great advantage in play knowing that half the time a certain opponent uses the bazooka. It's also a hell of a lot of data to store, and it would probably degrade the service a bit. Nice idea, though.

gman3_14
23 Mar 2007, 22:04
im a bit off topic but if the idea of more challenges arose..i think it would b awome to have like..
1.a rope only obstacle course(or jetpack i guess :-/ )
2.somesort of surrvival mode where ur worm is on a girder and all you have are girders and u need to protect urself from airstrkes or something(i apologize if these ideas were in other worm games..and this message is meaningless to u)
3.somesort of trickshot challenges(like break the targets from super smash bros melee)

worMatty
24 Mar 2007, 21:02
Timed events like the ones in WWP would make sense.

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