Firefox 3 and 4! [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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yauhui
10 Mar 2008, 12:44
Well, I don't know if you guys know about this or not, but..
I was browsing through Mozilla's "secret" servers (http://ftp.mozilla.org and http://releases.mozilla.org) and found links to Firefox 3 Beta. That alone got me excited.
To my surprise, I uncovered Firefox 4 Alpha 1 (Codename Minefield) too!
I was literally jumping in joy! You can too, here:
Firefox 4 Alpha 1 (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-mozilla-central/)
Firefox 2 & 3 (http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/)

franpa
10 Mar 2008, 13:09
minefield is ancient news and the ftp servers you speak of are public non-secret servers. something you did point out (to me atleast) is that minefield is no longer the 3rd mozilla client planned.

yauhui
10 Mar 2008, 14:09
Oh crap. I want Firefox 2 back!!!!
ARHH screw you minefield!

Muzer
10 Mar 2008, 17:07
Now do you see why it's called minefield? :p
Oh, and get Opera (www.opera.com).

MrBunsy
10 Mar 2008, 17:30
Oh, and get Opera (www.opera.com).Boooo :p
None of my games ever work in opera without tinkering :p

Muzer
10 Mar 2008, 17:44
That's your own fault for not standard conforming :p
Opera is the most standard conforming of the lot
www.firefoxmyths.com

MrBunsy
10 Mar 2008, 17:47
That's your own fault for not standard conforming :p
Opera is the most standard conforming of the lot
www.firefoxmyths.com
Yeah, but 95% of my visitors are using FF and IE. Opera deliberatly stops certain things from working.

Xinos
10 Mar 2008, 17:50
Yeah, but 95% of my visitors are using FF and IE. Opera deliberatly stops certain things from working.
If it didn't deliberetly stop certain things from working hackers would exploit it.

Muzer
10 Mar 2008, 17:54
Indeed .

MrBunsy
10 Mar 2008, 19:15
What? Things like the canvas?
Reliable key detection is possibly excused.

Muzer
10 Mar 2008, 20:06
What canvas would that be?

MrBunsy
10 Mar 2008, 21:00
The 2D graphics library thing JavaScript can use.
Makes flash-style nifty graphics available for JavaScript (and my games) (http://www.lukewallin.co.uk/index.php?go=planetwars)
A while ago a new version of Opera broke all my games, they still worked fine in FF/Safari/IE, but not Opera.

SupSuper
11 Mar 2008, 01:05
They work for me, though I'm using the latest Opera development build.

FutureWorm
11 Mar 2008, 01:17
opera sucks you guys are weird

yauhui
11 Mar 2008, 08:40
Minefield is nice, and utilizes new, nicer graphics and buttons as opposed to Firefox 2. You can check my forum for some screenies.
However, since this is Beta 1, there are a lot of bugs which I find quite annoying.
Also, I'm installing Firefox 3 Beta 4.

Paul.Power
11 Mar 2008, 09:55
Firefox 3 Beta 4.That sounds like it was an exciting game.

franpa
11 Mar 2008, 11:06
it's an alpha yahui. a alpha does not contain everything where as a beta does (in the case of mozilla).

yauhui
11 Mar 2008, 14:40
I don't know, some people call it alpha, some call it beta, so....
Also, the setup file is titled "Firefox Setup 3.0 Beta 4.exe", so.....................

FutureWorm
11 Mar 2008, 19:52
I don't know, some people call it alpha, some call it beta, so....
those people are probably idiots like you who don't understand the difference between version numbers

Plasma
11 Mar 2008, 21:41
it's an alpha yahui. a alpha does not contain everything where as a beta does (in the case of mozilla).
It's an Alpha version if it's not (supposed to be) acessable to the public, while it's a Beta version if it is.

franpa
12 Mar 2008, 02:19
it's alpha because it is labeled a 'alpha preview' and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go see the doctors in white coats.

yauhui
12 Mar 2008, 04:59
it's alpha because it is labeled a 'alpha preview' and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go see the doctors in white coats.
What's with the white coats? o.O

franpa
12 Mar 2008, 08:08
what colour coats do people wear in psychiatric wards?

yauhui
12 Mar 2008, 08:28
Any, I suppose.

Paul.Power
12 Mar 2008, 09:54
It's an Alpha version if it's not (supposed to be) acessable to the public, while it's a Beta version if it is.Dwarf Fortress says "hi".

FutureWorm
12 Mar 2008, 18:11
It's an Alpha version if it's not (supposed to be) acessable to the public, while it's a Beta version if it is.
i'm surprised that you would say this, given your years of programming experience which make you superior to team17

kikumbob
13 Mar 2008, 12:00
You're probably all right. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_stage#Alpha)
According to wikipedia alpha versions are meant for testing inside the community that developed the software. Dwarf fortress appears to be an exception in that it is an alpha because it doesn't contain all the features that are planned - a criterion for the beta stage.
However, back on topic, I am currently writing this using Firefox 3 Beta 4, and it is highlighting all my horrendously misspelled words with little squiggly red lines like in Microsoft word. Now, if that doesn't win users I don't what would.
www.firefoxmyths.com That was interesting. I was living in the myth that firefox was faster and used less memory than IE. Even though these myths may not be relevant to firefox 3, I may actually bother to have a look at Opera now...

bonz
13 Mar 2008, 14:23
it is highlighting all my horrendously misspelled words with little squiggly red lines like in Microsoft word.
Well, the dictionary plugin I use already does that on FF2.
It also automatically recognizes the language of a page and switches to the correct dictionary.
Right clicking gives you context menu with correct suggestions and you can add entries.
Seems like FF3 has that by default now.

Muzer
13 Mar 2008, 19:01
The only thing I'd say Opera lacks is a spell-check-as-you-type feature, but there is an official implementation for spell check at the end, the one where you have to invoke the checker (although you do have to install a program for it to work, but the program is available on Windows and 'nux, not sure about Mac), just right-click and spell check. And there is also User JS available for those not wanting to install a program, and it's better implemented IMO as it has an icon at the corner of all text fields so you don't forget to spell-check like I always do.

M3ntal
14 Mar 2008, 05:40
I wouldn't put too much weight on the claims of that firefoxmyths site, i noticed a fair amount of bias and lies from it. For example noting that the W3C are proper standards, then claiming an HTML page that violates these standards is still an HTML page. Make your mind up please.
That was interesting. I was living in the myth that firefox was faster and used less memory than IE. Even though these myths may not be relevant to firefox 3, I may actually bother to have a look at Opera now...
After i read this post, I checked the memory usage in something a little more extensive than the windows default one-value-encompasses-all guage his source used. The simplistic Google page gave pretty much the same usage in both FF2 and IE7 (one slightly higher in a few categories, vice-versa). I then tried the Radio Times site, as it is quite busy with images and javascript and here's the screenshot:

SupSuper
15 Mar 2008, 15:20
After i read this post, I checked the memory usage in something a little more extensive than the windows default one-value-encompasses-all guage his source used. The simplistic Google page gave pretty much the same usage in both FF2 and IE7 (one slightly higher in a few categories, vice-versa). I then tried the Radio Times site, as it is quite busy with images and javascript and here's the screenshot:IE seems to use a lot less CPU and I/O in return though.
Any chance you could compare Opera as well?

M3ntal
18 Mar 2008, 05:26
Any chance you could compare Opera as well?
The RT site has changed since i did those other screenshots, so i also did the other two again to give a fair comparison. I'm impressed by Opera's physical RAM usage, although notice it peaked at 32MB before settling at 10. My guess would be it compresses the data, hence using about 4 times the CPU time than the other two.
P.S, here's (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx) the program i took the screenshots from. Replace your task manager with it, it's soooo much better.

Xinos
19 Mar 2008, 23:57
I asked this in another thread, but this seems like a more appropriate place. How do I get firefox to stop shaking up and down? I just started using stumble, and updated firefox at the same time, so I'm not sure which of thoose is to blame, but in any case, when I bookmark a page or sometimes at compleate random, the all pages start jumping a few pixels up and down at a fast pace, and I can't make it stop.. it takes about 5 minutes before it stops by itself.
How can I disable this stupid feature that some idiotic person thought would be a good and not-at-all-annoying thing to implement?

franpa
20 Mar 2008, 05:56
backup your bookmarks and reinstall firefox without any extensions... but firstly run firfox in safe mode and see if it is indeed caused by a 3rd party component in regards to firefox.

Muzer
20 Mar 2008, 09:47
Get Opera (www.opera.com) instead. :p That'll fix all your problems!

franpa
20 Mar 2008, 10:30
it wont fix the problem of not having firefox then :S

MrBunsy
20 Mar 2008, 14:28
Get Opera (www.opera.com) instead. :p That'll fix all your problems!
Opera sometimes causes divs updated by javascript to jump up and down for no particular reason :p

Xinos
20 Mar 2008, 19:46
Get Opera (www.opera.com) instead. :p That'll fix all your problems!
I am already using Opera as my standard web browser. Stop giving me useless tips.

franpa
21 Mar 2008, 04:58
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2041266520080320?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews
some news on Beta 4 of Firefox 3 and a download link for it. http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html

yauhui
21 Mar 2008, 12:09
I already have Firefox 3 B4, just i havent installed it yet :p

franpa
21 Mar 2008, 12:16
i've installed it, it is pretty good, im using it right now ;) only problem is most extensions are not supported yet (adblockplus is and so is ietab though) and to sort your book marks you must "view all" then right click a folder then choose Sort. rightclicking anywhere but on a folder will have the option grayed out, it only sorts whats in the folder your right clicked on.
to me it uses roughly same amount of memory, though that could be because some of the internal tweaks i applied to 2.0.0.12 >.>

yauhui
26 Mar 2008, 11:53
Mind posting some screenies?
E.g. home page, history tab, bugs etc.
So that I know what to expect when using it for the first time.
Thanks

franpa
26 Mar 2008, 12:53
it seems the firefoox servers are struggling under the load from everyone downloading 2.0.0.13.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/franpa/untitled-8.png [History]
http://en-US.start2.mozilla.com/firefox?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official [homepage]
i can't seem to find the whatsnew page for it... so i can't link to it. it looks like the picture over here http://www.brownbaron.com/blog/2008/03/12/firefox-3-beta-4-released-for-download/

yauhui
26 Mar 2008, 13:02
The back/forward button is MUCH nicer than those in Minefield, yep.
The mozilla page loads REALLY SLOWLY, so I cant visit the page you linked.
Anyways thanks!

franpa
26 Mar 2008, 13:12
yea thats because there server is under heavy load from the million smart users updating to 2.0.0.13 which was released like 2 days ago.
EDIT: check my edits ^ as well.

kikumbob
27 Mar 2008, 19:51
I installed Opera like so many people have told me to do and I found that i was so used to firefox way of browsing that I used it once and almost threw up.
I don't care how many ACID tests its passed and everything, I prefer firefox THE END.
On that note, Beta 4 is astonishingly good and I will confirm everything franpa has said so far. The way history is used is certainly fairly irritating. You need to actually use it in a different way. A really nice feature is the way details of visited links is displayed that match the link currently being typed into the address bar. And for a beta, there are a suprisingly small number of bugs.

franpa
3 Apr 2008, 04:32
http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/releasenotes/#whatsnew
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-beta.html
beta 5 is out now :) you can use the update wizard in beta 4 to get it.
38MB of memory used :) however that takes into account the fast-back feature that stores the last 5 or so pages visited in memory. on startup (which is much faster then firefox 3. beta 4) only 23MB is used.

kikumbob
3 Apr 2008, 16:07
...you can use the update wizard in beta 4 to get it.
Can you point this out to me? I can't see it.

franpa
4 Apr 2008, 05:19
Help -> Check for updates...

yauhui
4 Apr 2008, 12:49
Help -> Check for updates...
More precisely, Help -> Check for Updates...
Puts shortcut key users at ease. Just Alt -> H -> O.

bonz
4 Apr 2008, 14:46
More precisely, Help -> Check for Updates...
Puts shortcut key users at ease. Just Alt -> H -> O.
Yes, because the program update feature is one of the most often used ones, more than 17 times every second by the average user!
Good that you mentioned these very helpful shortcuts for people that didn't know yet.
:rolleyes:

kikumbob
8 Apr 2008, 16:49
Yes, because the program update feature is one of the most often used ones, more than 17 times every second by the average user!
Good that you mentioned these very helpful shortcuts for people that didn't know yet.
:rolleyes:For your information, I used Yahui's shorcut instuctions. I believe the words "pipe" and "smoke" come into mind.

bonz
9 Apr 2008, 00:52
For your information, I used Yahui's shorcut instuctions. I believe the words "pipe" and "smoke" come into mind.
Yeah, since Yauhui posted his really helpful shortcut key combination I now have much more free time to smoke my crack pipe.
:rolleyes:

Paul.Power
10 Apr 2008, 10:38
What puzzles me is that it's O. C or U would be far more logical, and it isn't like they're being used for shortcuts elsewhere on the Help menu.

Muzer
10 Apr 2008, 11:23
In opera it's "h", because "c" is used for "community"

franpa
10 Apr 2008, 13:36
"adblock plus" just got updated for firefox 3 :)

kikumbob
10 Apr 2008, 17:53
What puzzles me is that it's O. C or U would be far more logical, and it isn't like they're being used for shortcuts elsewhere on the Help menu. Infact, its the only time a letter is used from the middle of a word in the Help menu, and not a key word at that:confused:
And thats funny, i've been able to use AdBlock plus for the whole duration that I've used the betas. Although I did arrive on the scene of beta 5 late...

yakuza
10 Apr 2008, 18:02
Firefox is like an iPod, suddenly everyone got one and very few that use it realize it sucks. Opera ftw.

Xinos
10 Apr 2008, 18:12
Firefox is like an iPod, suddenly everyone got one and very few that use it realize it sucks. Opera ftw.
So.. if everybody switches to Opera then that will suck too, right?

yakuza
10 Apr 2008, 18:18
So.. if everybody switches to Opera then that will suck too, right?
Not really.

MrBunsy
10 Apr 2008, 22:41
Opera renders things strangely. Spans which have display:'block' switched to display:'none'; by javascript don't get re-drawn properly. It has problems with the canvas no other browsers do. It makes divs updated regularly by AJAX jump up and down.
Dare I say it, it's caused me more nuisance than IE, only I usually don't bother to fix things for Opera because 2% of my site's visitors use it :P
Perhaps I'm not following the standards perfectly? It's quite possible I'm not, but everything works near flawlessly in every other browser I can find.
/me doesn't like Opera, and really doesn't want more people to switch to it.

SupSuper
10 Apr 2008, 23:40
Firefox is like an iPod, suddenly everyone got one and very few that use it realize it sucks. Opera ftw.A better analogy is that some people need to realize it's just a music playerbrowser, not a lifestyle.

Paul.Power
11 Apr 2008, 16:38
Firefox is like an iPod, suddenly everyone got one and very few that use it realize it sucks. Opera ftw.It took me years to be persuaded to switch from IE to Firefox. It's going to take just as long to persuade me to switch from Firefox to Opera.
It's not a question of whether it "sucks". I just have a high inertia when it comes to these things.

Squirminator2k
11 Apr 2008, 17:12
I dislike Opera. I've tried it but it doesn't really seem very user-friendly to me. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

yakuza
11 Apr 2008, 19:08
It took me years to be persuaded to switch from IE to Firefox. It's going to take just as long to persuade me to switch from Firefox to Opera.
It's not a question of whether it "sucks". I just have a high inertia when it comes to these things.
Me too, I refused to use the tabs (when they come out for every browser) because I was too used to opening new windows all the time. Now I can't believe I ever lived without tabs.

MtlAngelus
11 Apr 2008, 19:46
I love Safari. <3

yauhui
12 Apr 2008, 08:22
Oh wow. Check out the highlighted text.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1314/tempcy4.png

*Splinter*
12 Apr 2008, 10:52
Wow, that must be true, what with being from an independant source and all :rolleyes:

Muzer
12 Apr 2008, 14:10
Opera seems to run your games fine, Bunnsy.

SupSuper
12 Apr 2008, 23:08
Personally, I never got along with Firefox, I think it comes down to first impressions.
Firefox's interface just tries to be familiar so people have no trouble switching, while Opera's goes for usability. By default, Firefox has windows pop out of the main window including an annoying Transfers manager that sticks everything in Desktop. Opera has a new customizable interface to give the most screen space and every window is a tab so it'll never intrude anywhere.

Squirminator2k
12 Apr 2008, 23:50
Personally, I never got along with Firefox, I think it comes down to first impressions.
Firefox's interface just tries to be familiar so people have no trouble switching, while Opera's goes for usability.
Actually Firefox is using a browser menu layout which has been used by many a browser since the Dawn of Time. It closely resembles ABrowse, the web browser I used to use on my Amiga, and AWeb, another old Amiga browser which I've been using recently. It's going by an acceptable standard.
By default, Firefox has windows pop out of the main window including an annoying Transfers manager that sticks everything in Desktop.
Except now it goes to the "Downloads" folder instead. And it's not like it's particularly difficult to change, anyway. Personally I'd rather have my download manager in a separate window, but that's just me.

Muzer
13 Apr 2008, 02:54
Yeah, well Opera is much easier to use, has much more features that are still easily accessible that you can only get on firefox by ploughing through pages and pages of extensions unless you know their names, and is faster and more standards complient.

franpa
13 Apr 2008, 02:58
SupSuper, Firefox 3 now has a timer in the bottom right that shows how many downloads are active and how long it takes to finish them as well as the usuall download window.
Also, since like firefox 1.0 or whatever, you can very easily adjust where files download and can also set it to ask you every time if you want.

Squirminator2k
13 Apr 2008, 03:22
Yeah, well Opera is much easier to use, has much more features that are still easily accessible that you can only get on firefox by ploughing through pages and pages of extensions unless you know their names, and is faster and more standards complient.
When exactly did we get into a Firefox Vs. Opera debate? The entire argument is redundant. Both browsers are, at the very least, more standards-compliant than IE, which is the least standards-compliant browser out there (save for AWeb on the Amiga, natch). Honestly, this is like the WGA getting into an argument with the Writers Guild of Great Britain over the size of writing paper.

SupSuper
13 Apr 2008, 04:52
It's the internet, every opinion is an argument. :p
Except now it goes to the "Downloads" folder instead. And it's not like it's particularly difficult to change, anyway. Personally I'd rather have my download manager in a separate window, but that's just me.Well I'd prefer applications to not be annoying by default. All my college computers have Firefox installed on both OSes so I can't get around it, we can't change settings.

Squirminator2k
13 Apr 2008, 04:53
Well I'd prefer applications to not be annoying by default.
Yet you willingly switched to Vista.
*sniffs the air* Hm, can anyone else smell something burning?

Muzer
13 Apr 2008, 11:23
Opera was also the first well-known browser to pass both Acid2 and (if you include dev versions) Acid3. They'll have to be creating a new test now, then.

Squirminator2k
13 Apr 2008, 21:57
Wow. I have absolutely no idea what Acid2 and Acid3 are!

kikumbob
15 Apr 2008, 10:30
Wow. I have absolutely no idea what Acid2 and Acid3 are! No doubt you've already wiki'ed them all, so:
Acid1 focuses on the browser's CSS1 and HTML compatibility. (http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS1/current/test5526c.htm)
Acid2 focuses on CSS2 (http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html)
Acid3 focuses on the DOM and Javascript side of things. (http://acid3.acidtests.org/)
Firefox 3 beta 5 appears to pass both 1 and 2, and gains 71/100 on 3. Whatever that mark means :-/
EDIT: I just tried IE 7. It passed the acid1 perfectly, completely failed at 2 and broke on 3; it started bleeping at me and explaining that i needed an add on >_<

yakuza
15 Apr 2008, 12:27
71/100 baiscally means 71% passed, duh.
Also Opera comes with tab based torrent download/upload and IRC. Auto win.

franpa
15 Apr 2008, 12:54
IE8 passes the 1st one but breaks on the others and can not be given a mark other then 0 on the 3rd test since you can't see the result

yauhui
15 Apr 2008, 13:23
Firefox 4 Alpha 1 passed 1 and 2 (in test 2, is the nose meant to turn blue upon mouse-over?) but got a 68/100 in test 3. Fail.

SupSuper
15 Apr 2008, 21:36
Opera passes Acid1 and Acid2 but gets 79/100 with Acid3 on the latest Opera 9.5 beta. Although there's an in-development build that passes Acid3: http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/03/26/opera-and-the-acid3-test

Plasma
15 Apr 2008, 22:18
I could never figure out what the Acid tests are really supposed to prove though.
All I know is that Firefox repeatedly crashes randomly when playing a Shockwave animation, and is slower than IE for Flash animations.

*Splinter*
15 Apr 2008, 22:55
I could never figure out what the Acid tests are really supposed to prove though.
All I know is that Firefox repeatedly crashes randomly when playing a Shockwave animation, and is slower than IE for Flash animations.
But... you know everything... :(

Plasma
15 Apr 2008, 23:08
But... you know everything... :(
And yet I can't figure out what makes Cinnamon Toast Crunch taste so delicious...

kikumbob
16 Apr 2008, 01:15
I could never figure out what the Acid tests are really supposed to prove though....but I just told you that! Acid1 tests HTML and CSS1 rendering capabilities, acid2 tests CSS2 rendering and acid3 is for javascript. Wiki them if you're still stuck.

franpa
16 Apr 2008, 08:03
All I know is that Firefox repeatedly crashes randomly when playing a Shockwave animation, and is slower than IE for Flash animations.
A specific animation?

Plasma
16 Apr 2008, 17:56
...but I just told you that! Acid1 tests HTML and CSS1 rendering capabilities, acid2 tests CSS2 rendering and acid3 is for javascript. Wiki them if you're still stuck.
Yeah, but I've never had a problem with them with any browser outside of those tests, so whats the point?
A specific animation?
If by 'specific', you mean 'every', then yes. Granted, it could be just my computer, but I'm not going to go round to other people's computers testing out Shockwave applications just to check.
As for being slower on Flash, that's a documented fact.

franpa
19 Apr 2008, 02:19
For anyone interested here is the Firstrun page for beta 5 :) I doubt it will appear wrongly in FF 2.x
http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/firstrun/

yauhui
19 Apr 2008, 08:29
FF 2.0.0.14 just came out.

MrBunsy
19 Apr 2008, 13:47
Opera seems to run your games fine, Bunnsy.
'cept the physics sandbox and lots of older experiments.
Meh, I know what the problem is with the canvas, and I daresay most bugs could be fixed, but after spending ages for IE-specific tweaks, Opera just gets on my nerves when it needs tweaks too.

franpa
17 May 2008, 05:34
Firefox 3.0 Release Candidate 1 is released :)
http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0rc1/win32/en-US/
EDIT: it passes the ACID Test 2 and hits 71 on the ACID 3 Test.

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