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sabin1981
29 May 2010, 00:13
Usually I don't do this, it's a ridiculous internet concept to sign up for a forum only to moan and gripe .. but from what I've just found out; I feel it is is my obligation to do so!
First and foremost, I am absolutely disgusted about Team 17's treatment of those loyal fans who purchased Alien Breed on the X360, only to now find out that they were nothing but beta testers! CHARGED beta testers at that! What am I talking about? I'm talking about "Alien Breed Impact" - the upcoming revamp of a revamp for the PC and PSN. When I first heard about Impact, I was happy that a new AB title was coming (even though it's not Episode 2, which we have all waited patiently for and have had no news about whatsoever) -- only to then find out that it's not a "new" title at all! It's a goddamn UPDATE to a title we've already paid for! When I saw Impact on Steam, I almost bought it.. until I realised that I already had! I'd bought the unfinished garbage product six months prior!
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/55031/Improved-Alien-Breed-Evolution-Coming-Soon-To-Steam
Ahead of the release of Alien Breed Evolution on the Xbox 360 last December, Team 17 confirmed that the game would be released on the PC through Steam at a later date. That time now nears, but thankfully Team 17 has decided to revamp the title's features and gameplay after some less-than-positive-feedback from console gamers:
The difficult decision was taken to delay the release of Episode 2 in order to make some crucial improvements in accordance with the mixed feedback and, in addition to this, the team decided to relaunch Episode 1 with similar changes made.
"Great!" I thought. "Team 17 are awesome, as always! Now we get the real version of the game! I wonder when the patch will come out on the 360?" Until I kept reading;
Now called Alien Breed Impact, the game is set to be re-released on Steam and PlayStation Network complete with a couple of changes specifically addressing the criticisms of the specialist press. Largest among these is the re-introduction of vending machines to the series. Last seen in 1994’s Alien Breed Tower Assault, they once allowed you to trade collected credits for new weapons but will now do something slightly different.
Say WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???? Hold on a cotton pickin' minute! You're saying all this good stuff, which is nothing more than an update to a game I've already paid for, isn't actually an update but a completely new SALE? And it's not even coming to the platform it originated on!?!
Yeah, Evolution was a little rough around the edges - but to do THIS is just absolutely sickening. You release a game not even 7 months ago on the 360, charge us money for it, then you - after feedback - revamp the title, add new features and polish it up a little, then sell it AGAIN as a completely new one! That's not even the worst of all.. no, the worst of all is that you do all this only to sell the game on OTHER platforms instead!!! No patch, no update, no loyalty to your fans or customers who PAID for the, obviously half finished, 360 title! What do we get? What do we, who bought your game in the first place, get? SWEET F.A, THAT'S WHAT!
You've treated those that bought "Evolution" as nothing more than beta testers for your final product, a product you're not even selling on the original platform! Yeah yeah, you're incorporating these "changes" into Episode 2 (if that ever sees the light of day :rolleyes:) but what about Episode 1? What about the game we've already paid for, but are now being told we have to pay AGAIN for the proper version on a completely different platform? I'm sorry, but no. I know you don't care about one lost customer, and I've no doubt your legions of adoring fans will jump down my throat about this thread, but I don't care. You made us pay for Evolution, you're now revamping it and making us pay again - but I, for one, refuse to.
Sucker me once, shame on you. Sucker me twice, shame on me. Right? Well not THIS gamer. You've suckered me once and that's once too many.
Yours angrily;
an EX fan of Team 17.

MrBunsy
29 May 2010, 10:32
No patch, no update, no loyalty to your fans or customers who PAID for the, obviously half finished, 360 title! What do we get? What do we, who bought your game in the first place, get? SWEET F.A, THAT'S WHAT!
I just feel like pointing out, as someone who has written games myself (albeit on a much, much smaller scaler), that when T17 released on the 360 they evidently thought it was a complete game. You did too when you bought it. They've got a release on new platforms scheduled, but get feedback and decide to improve the game before releasing. They do so, and are about to release an improved version on different platforms. I agree a patch would be a nice thing to see, but by the sounds of it it would quite significantly change the game - not the usual idea of patches.
Software usually improves with later releases, so I'm mildly confused as to your reaction.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 10:54
Software usually improves with later releases, so I'm mildly confused as to your reaction.
What's to be confused about? Think about it logically and you see that the initial release of Evolution on the 360 is *obviously* incomplete, because even T17 have said they're relaunching it with all the fixes and additions people wanted. See, I would *maybe* (and that's a very shallow maybe, by the way) not feel quite so slighted and ripped off if T17 were actually relaunching Impact on the 360 ... but they're not. No, instead they're leaving us with a half finished game, riddled with design flaws, whilst giving the "updated" version to PC and PSN gamers.
Does that seem fair to you?
@Team 17
I'm actually very impressed that this thread got through the moderation check, so at least I'm grateful for that as I believe - anger aside - that this is a legitimate complaint.

DrMelon
29 May 2010, 13:47
Evidently this man is missing the point entirely.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 15:30
Evidently this man is missing the point entirely.
Who, me? If I am missing the point, I'd really like to know what it is :(

Plasma
29 May 2010, 16:10
Once again: "Other people get something for free, but I don't" is not a valid form of complaint with things like this.
Moreso, I'd like to point out that the 360 players got Alien Breed over half a year before Steam players will, so it can also count as a form of compensation for that too, similar to how EU games, because they come out after their US/JP counterparts, get a lot more bugfixes.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 16:26
Once again: "Other people get something for free, but I don't" is not a valid form of complaint with things like this.
Moreso, I'd like to point out that the 360 players got Alien Breed over half a year before Steam players will, so it can also count as a form of compensation for that too, similar to how EU games, because they come out after their US/JP counterparts, get a lot more bugfixes.
Yawn. I made perfectly valid points and if you can't, or won't, see that; then good for you. Enjoy paying to beta test a product. This wouldn't be half as insulting if 360 gamers were at least getting the same product others are, but we're not; we're denied that because hey! We're nothing, right? T17 already got OUR money, now it's time to milk the rest of the populace.
... and since I'm still on moderation, it's obvious that my points are offending someone. Too close to the truth, I reckon.

thomasp
29 May 2010, 17:15
@Team 17
I'm actually very impressed that this thread got through the moderation check, so at least I'm grateful for that as I believe - anger aside - that this is a legitimate complaint.
Probably because the moderators aren't Team17 staff, thus removing any bias from the process. Team17 staff are of course still free to moderate the forum if necessary and tell us to delete threads.
... and since I'm still on moderation, it's obvious that my points are offending someone. Too close to the truth, I reckon.
No, that would be because you have not yet met the minimum number of posts required to automatically progress out of the "pre-moderation" usergroup. It is applied to every single new user and is a factor of both number of posts and time registered. This is to stop spammers creating a mess on the forum. There are only a couple of moderators on this forum and we don't watch it 24/7.
I'm not saying when you will be out of pre-moderation, because the spammers will then use that to circumvent our systems.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 17:23
Actually, I know.. I made sure to read the rules first in order to check whether this kind of thread was allowed. I'm just annoyed, to be honest, annoyed and feeling more than a little insulted. As I said; if 360 gamers (you know; the people that paid for the original game) were getting fair treatment, I'd be feeling less slighted -- but we're not are we? No, we get an obviously half-finished game, albeit great fun to play, whilst PSN and Steam gets the "real deal" That alone is annoying, but the major crux of my anger comes from the fact that 360 *isn't* getting the final product either! Not as a free upgrade to initial buyers, not as a paid expansion, not even as a paid final product; we're just not getting it at all.
And that is wrong.

Wormetti
29 May 2010, 17:32
Team17 and other companies have been selling updated versions of the same game for years. No complex game is ever finished, there's always something that can be improved if you have the time.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 17:34
Team17 and other companies have been releasing updated versions of the same game on other platforms for years. No complex game is ever finished, there's always something that can be improved if you have the time.
*sigh* You're missing the point! Yes, things get updated and worked on all the time - but to completely cut out the 360 like this, whilst now favouring the Steam and PSN outlets is.... it's just wrong, ok? At the VERY least this new "Impact" version should be on ALL three platforms, not just the beta test on one and then the final product on two others.

Wormetti
29 May 2010, 17:44
Part 2 will be released on 360 with these features. Team17 did the same with Worms 360 but it was a bit more than 7 month difference. Worms PSN was released with some weapons and features that Worms 360 doesn't have but then Worms 2: Armageddon came out on 360. Worms Reloaded will be released on PC with features that weren't in W2A.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 17:47
Part 2 will be released on 360 with these features. Team17 did the same with Worms 360 but it was a bit more than 7 month difference. Worms PSN has some weapons that Worms 360 doesn't have but then the Worms 2: Armageddon came out on 360 with more features than all of them and it's still not out on PS3 or PC.
Yes, I know Part 2 will be released with these features (or so they say..) but that doesn't excuse that PSN/Steam will *also* eventually get Part 2 as well. Basically it boils down to us (and by "us" I mean 360 gamers; I actually do have a PS3 and a PC also but I refuse to be suckered into paying for the same product multiple times) being stuck with the half-finished Part 1, whilst Steam/PSN get the complete package.
So, again, my point is; why not release Impact on the 360 AS WELL? Give a little something back to the fans that made it possible in the first place... because you can place a sure bet on the fact that if Evolution didn't sell on the 360; PSN and Steam wouldn't have gotten it either. It's only out of the revenue made off the 360 version that a remake/etc is a viable option.

BillT17
29 May 2010, 17:55
Thought I would jump in here to clarify a couple of things. Microsoft have very strict rules about updating titles, to do a title update you can only change the executable file and you can also add on more content as in more levels or more weapons etc. However the changes we made are actually wider than that and so we were unable to do a title update and with Episode 2 already in submission with Microsoft with all the improvements and more besides. (an entirely new game mode) It was just not physically possible for us to update Episode 1.
Its one of those dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. If we hadn't listened and changes the game, it would have bombed and we would have canned the entire trilogy, this was the only way to ensure finishing the project. We really hope people love the improvements and those on XBLA get to play Episode 2 very soon.
Does that help clear some points up?

piydek
29 May 2010, 17:56
I haven't seen anywhere a clear and direct comment on what such a problem with evolution on 360 was. Can anyone clarify this? Also, the only thing that's clear for now is different in impact and actually matters is ability to upgrade weapons. I hope it's implemented well and i hope careful planning of what upgrades to make will be crucial to being able to progress. I remember that in original AB games, you just had to plan this stuff carefully or there'd come a point where you just couldn't survive anymore. If that's not implemented in impact, i sure hope it's going to be an element of episodes 2 and 3. That's a really important gameplay aspect. I hope weapon upgrading is not just something to make life easier or a cosmetical thing, but a real gameplay requirement. But we haven't played impact yet and can't tell what it really is. If it is what it should be, then yes - it is an important thing.
Alien design to make them more distinct - really not important to me. The changes in co-op - i have no clue if and what was lacking in 360 co-op. The same goes for improved difficulty - i like it when the games are ultra hard, but i haven't seen any real complaints from 360 players regarding difficulty on "elite".
And that's about it with differences, as far as i can tell. So, i don't know what such a huge deal is. Your claims that 360 community were beta testers and that you got an unfinished game seem like a pretty big overreaction. I do see how you'd want this upgraded version, but to imply you were ripped off is not fair IMO. No game is ever truly "finished" and what it could be, there's always community feedback, things to improve, etc. I'm glad T17 reacted so soon.

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 18:01
I guess it does, yes. I'm not happy with the end result, and I'm sorry but I won't be buying the PC/PSN version, but at least it's nice to get a clear and honest answer as to why this happened. I guess all there's left to do now is wait for Episode 2.
Thank you, I appreciate your reply.

BillT17
29 May 2010, 18:19
We understand and without promising anything we are very mindful of those who bought Episode 1 on XBLA. You won't be forgotten. Episode 2 is a real treat. Wait until you see the demo. :)

sabin1981
29 May 2010, 18:27
I'll just be happy once Episode 2 is released! For all it's foibles, Episode 1 is a great game and one I'm looking forward to continuing the story of =)

tuggray
30 May 2010, 18:09
Could be worse, you could of bought a Street fighter title.
:3 lets not forget Team17 ISN'T Capcom.

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