Manual Placement. [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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Komo
29 Aug 2010, 16:41
Why do we not have a Manual Placement option?
This be make way for alot of extra tactics...
Especially in a pro scheme.

hundreds
29 Aug 2010, 17:37
I thought there was one?

NAiL
29 Aug 2010, 17:42
No manual placement, you kidding?
No select worms, no more than 4 worms, no manual placement...
What were T17 thinking? Didnt the testers think to mention anything?

D_Wormkill
29 Aug 2010, 18:07
No manual placement, you kidding?
No select worms, no more than 4 worms, no manual placement...
What were T17 thinking? Didnt the testers think to mention anything?
There is a manual placement in the editor: you can put the worms there. Or you can use a lot of teleports and then setting them manually. I know this last possibility sucks, but I sincerely found me well with the placements in the editor.

hundreds
29 Aug 2010, 18:30
No manual placement, you kidding?
No select worms, no more than 4 worms, no manual placement...
What were T17 thinking? Didnt the testers think to mention anything?
Wait a sec, I guess manual starting spots are not there, but what is the option under the scheme editor on the first page, towards the bottom, called:
WORM SELECT: on or off

Shroom!
29 Aug 2010, 18:43
Worm select is not the same as worm placement.

DrMelon
29 Aug 2010, 19:37
Worm select is when you press tab to switch to other worms before your turn begins.

D_Wormkill
29 Aug 2010, 19:43
Wait a sec, I guess manual starting spots are not there, but what is the option under the scheme editor on the first page, towards the bottom, called:
WORM SELECT: on or off
No hundreds, there isn't. You need to go to the landscape editor and there you'll see the manual worms placement. I had to specify before: for editor I meant the landscape editor.

NAiL
29 Aug 2010, 22:06
There is a manual placement in the editor: you can put the worms there. Or you can use a lot of teleports and then setting them manually. I know this last possibility sucks, but I sincerely found me well with the placements in the editor.
So can you place worms manually on the landscape, or do you you have to pre define points where the worms will start in the map editor before you start the game?

D_Wormkill
29 Aug 2010, 22:38
So can you place worms manually on the landscape, or do you you have to pre define points where the worms will start in the map editor before you start the game?
The second sentence is correct. Pre defined points.

NAiL
29 Aug 2010, 23:06
The second sentence is correct. Pre defined points.
Wow... Team17 really have put no thought whatsoever into this new game. How could they, and the people who brag about "testing" WR miss out on even the most BASIC of requirements.
This means that you can't decide where your worms are going to start in an online game. Thats fine if you don't want to place worms manually, but what if you do want to place manually, as people do for so many schemes...
I dont sit comfortably with the host of a game choosing where my worms are going to start before the game has even started. By anyones standards, this is RIDICULOUS.
Seriously Team17... what were you thinking? We can debate until the cows come home about the rope sucking and the phyics sucking... but not including the option for both players to place their worms on the start of the landscape is unforgivable. The fact that such a fundamental aspect of worms strategy has been so thoughtlessly left out really does emphasie the fact that Team17 are CLUELESS as to how their games are played.
Get your finger out Team17, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO BUY YOUR PRODUCTS.

Komo
30 Aug 2010, 08:11
Wow... Team17 really have put no thought whatsoever into this new game. How could they, and the people who brag about "testing" WR miss out on even the most BASIC of requirements.
This means that you can't decide where your worms are going to start in an online game. Thats fine if you don't want to place worms manually, but what if you do want to place manually, as people do for so many schemes...
I dont sit comfortably with the host of a game choosing where my worms are going to start before the game has even started. By anyones standards, this is RIDICULOUS.
Seriously Team17... what were you thinking? We can debate until the cows come home about the rope sucking and the phyics sucking... but not including the option for both players to place their worms on the start of the landscape is unforgivable. The fact that such a fundamental aspect of worms strategy has been so thoughtlessly left out really does emphasie the fact that Team17 are CLUELESS as to how their games are played.
Get your finger out Team17, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO BUY YOUR PRODUCTS.
I couldn't agree with you more, I am actually more than depressed now, they really really really really do not care about us... They should be asking us what we want in the game before it's made, not run about daft wasting even more time and money after it comes out trying to fix it and make things right and the way people want it...
How can you have competitive games, where the host can decide where his opponents worms will start? This is a total and utter joke, and one that isn't funny...

Koenachtig
30 Aug 2010, 08:32
How can you have competitive games, where the host can decide where his opponents worms will start? This is a total and utter joke, and one that isn't funny...
That's nonsense.
This can only happen is the host has made his custom map before, and then uses it online.
-Not possible in ranked matches
-Not sure about the possibility in player-matches
-Not a problem in private-matches, because you will know who you are playing with

Draconis
30 Aug 2010, 08:34
It just so happens that Team17 have made the game play in exactly the way I usually play Worms anyway but it is odd that certain options have been left out. There used to be an option to decide whether worms were placed in teams or randomly across the maps as well. Placing them in teams was always unfair because you'd get one guy's entire team on a bridge or on the edge of a cliff or something but still, it was nice to have the option.

Komo
30 Aug 2010, 08:49
That's nonsense.
This can only happen is the host has made his custom map before, and then uses it online.
-Not possible in ranked matches
-Not sure about the possibility in player-matches
-Not a problem in private-matches, because you will know who you are playing with
Well thats good then :)

D_Wormkill
30 Aug 2010, 08:51
Wow... Team17 really have put no thought whatsoever into this new game. How could they, and the people who brag about "testing" WR miss out on even the most BASIC of requirements.
This means that you can't decide where your worms are going to start in an online game. Thats fine if you don't want to place worms manually, but what if you do want to place manually, as people do for so many schemes...
I dont sit comfortably with the host of a game choosing where my worms are going to start before the game has even started. By anyones standards, this is RIDICULOUS.
Seriously Team17... what were you thinking? We can debate until the cows come home about the rope sucking and the phyics sucking... but not including the option for both players to place their worms on the start of the landscape is unforgivable. The fact that such a fundamental aspect of worms strategy has been so thoughtlessly left out really does emphasie the fact that Team17 are CLUELESS as to how their games are played.
Get your finger out Team17, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO BUY YOUR PRODUCTS.
Remember we're talking about custom maps. So it should be some seriousness or a little bit of honesty in worms placing, don't you think so? For example I converted a BnG map and put the worms in a fair position.
But don't think we haven't talked about this, but it isn't an emergency respect to other missing features, don't you think so. An example is the scheme interface, the only real thing that made my stomach hurt!
However....if some more people will ask for this feature, I don't see how Team17 couldn't implement that. Do you agree with me?

franpa
30 Aug 2010, 08:57
Wow... Team17 really have put no thought whatsoever into this new game. How could they, and the people who brag about "testing" WR miss out on even the most BASIC of requirements.
This means that you can't decide where your worms are going to start in an online game. Thats fine if you don't want to place worms manually, but what if you do want to place manually, as people do for so many schemes...
I dont sit comfortably with the host of a game choosing where my worms are going to start before the game has even started. By anyones standards, this is RIDICULOUS.
Seriously Team17... what were you thinking? We can debate until the cows come home about the rope sucking and the phyics sucking... but not including the option for both players to place their worms on the start of the landscape is unforgivable. The fact that such a fundamental aspect of worms strategy has been so thoughtlessly left out really does emphasie the fact that Team17 are CLUELESS as to how their games are played.
Get your finger out Team17, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO BUY YOUR PRODUCTS.
Wait until a month after launch date and see if anything major is done by then, in the mean time make custom schemes with all weapons having a 1 turn delay except teleport.

Etho.
30 Aug 2010, 09:09
not run about daft wasting even more time and money after it comes out trying to fix it and make things right and the way people want it...
I would actually be very surprised if Team17 had any sort of intention in adding additional features or improvements to the game. At best they will probably release a patch to fix some of the many bugs in the game.
Just accept that the game is what it is and that it's not what we want it to be. I started working on a scheme/team/tweak editor for this game, but have since given up. I've realized that there would be little benefit trying to put bandades on the train wreck that is this game.

Komo
30 Aug 2010, 10:01
I've realized that there would be little benefit trying to put bandades on the train wreck that is this game.
Yeah so true...
in the mean time make custom schemes with all weapons having a 1 turn delay except teleport.
Like I said I have already done this :)
However....if some more people will ask for this feature, I don't see how Team17 couldn't implement that. Do you agree with me?
If you mean manual placement, I totally agree with you :)

Thurbo
30 Aug 2010, 11:36
Manual placements isn't a basic option at all, more like an extra ability.

Komo
30 Aug 2010, 11:47
Manual placements isn't a basic option at all, more like an extra ability.
It is a basic option, how is it an extra ability? It doesn't give you any advantage whatsoever? In fact if anything it makes it MUCH fairer because with random placement, someone will ALWAYS have a better starting position.
At least with manual placement, you can counter this.

Thurbo
30 Aug 2010, 11:52
How is it a basic one? This option isn't really commonly used even in WA is it?

yakuza
30 Aug 2010, 11:56
Get your finger out Team17, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO BUY YOUR PRODUCTS.
They do, sadly, feedback techniques nowadays don't involve much direct interaction.
Worms Reloaded is selling incredibly well, because it's aimed for the masses, steam masses, people who aren't bothered a bit about strategy or worm placements, as long as they can hold space for a while and see pretty explosions and bananas in their screens they're happy, and so is Team17, specially their $$$ division.
Who can you blame?
Sure, they could have added this feature because I doubt it would have taken one of their programmers more than half a day of work, it wouldn't have affected sales that much, if at all, but at least they'd be giving the Worms saga some coherent continuity and quality, but I doubt they care that much about that at this point.

yakuza
30 Aug 2010, 12:00
How is it a basic one? This option isn't really commonly used even in WA is it?
It's only used in the vast majority of schemes in WA. Only.
I think you need some previous experience before attempting to get involved in discussions that you clearly have nothing valuable to add to, this being one, and your intervention in the rope argument thread being the most notable display of ignorance I've seen in a while.
Oh and Komo, I really suggest you don't stand so bothered about this game and Team17, you weren't supposed to have any hope to begin with. This game, even though many times sold as the sequel to Worms Armageddon is not. It was never meant to be. It's a fantastic game for what it aims. Sadly, you, me, and the rest of people that have wide experience with Worms are not included in this goal Team17 had, sure you can be dissapointed, but you also have to understand what they seek and what they want.
For me, WA is still the superior game, but I still wanted to give this a go, if only to experience a fresh and bigger community to compete with, but early on I realized it just wouldn't happen. At this point I'm just hoping communication between Team17 and Cybershadow becomes present and constant, and then we can hope for 4.0 to come out early and perhaps even a Steam re-release to refresh the community of WA. At the same time, I have little hope, as WA would compete with W:R directly, if the first gets a release on steam.

Komo
30 Aug 2010, 12:24
How is it a basic one? This option isn't really commonly used even in WA is it?
1st I was actually surprised you asked this, then I laughed a bit, then I ask myself, are you serious?
It is used in most schemes played competitively... And alot of schemes that are not used in leagues...

Komo
30 Aug 2010, 12:28
Yeah yakuza (does anyone actually know your proper wnet name here? Can I call you that? Cuz feels too weird me saying yakuza...)
I am not really dissapointed because I knew nothing would ever compare to WA in my own opinion, so I prepared for the worst and hoped for the best, I will try stuff out with WR over the oncoming months, i'll give it a chance, but even if it works out good for me, i'll still stick to WA.

yakuza
30 Aug 2010, 13:32
Yeah yakuza (does anyone actually know your proper wnet name here? Can I call you that? Cuz feels too weird me saying yakuza...)
I am not really dissapointed because I knew nothing would ever compare to WA in my own opinion, so I prepared for the worst and hoped for the best, I will try stuff out with WR over the oncoming months, i'll give it a chance, but even if it works out good for me, i'll still stick to WA.
You can call me anything, 99% of the people here do not play WA (they just like to argue about it) so it doesn't change anything, ropa, yakuza, pudgiebudgie
:p

Wormetti
30 Aug 2010, 14:42
You can delay all weapons apart from teleport. That's not much different to manual placement but it will take a while with the slow to use "style" editor. You also couldn't use it in ranked games. I doubt many people would bother to use it since there is already too much unnecessary delay between turns (the network code could use a lot of optimising, it takes the game longer to transmit/replay keystrokes than it does voice) and while it says "waiting", you can't look at the map or your weapons or bring up the chat with ~ (you can bring it up with escape).

anoamas321
30 Aug 2010, 19:40
You can delay all weapons apart from teleport. That's not much different to manual placement but it will take a while with the slow to use "style" editor. You also couldn't use it in ranked games. I doubt many people would bother to use it since there is already too much unnecessary delay between turns (the network code could use a lot of optimising, it takes the game longer to transmit/replay keystrokes than it does voice) and while it says "waiting", you can't look at the map or your weapons or bring up the chat with ~ (you can bring it up with escape).
WTF manual placement cant but hard to include and should be an option for those who want it. also delaying all weapons part from tele is just lame, specially for 4 worms, it would take almost twice as long to get started.
also i cant believe that in WR you can have only 4 worms(per team), and 4 teams, i would like to be able to have more, maybe even like a max of 10 or 12, this could create some epic games, it should be easy to add and most computers should be able to handle as many as 100 worms on the map, that could be quite fun :P

bonz
30 Aug 2010, 19:59
the people who brag about "testing" WR miss out on even the most BASIC of requirements
FYI, I've reported this, as well as the absent grenade bounce settings and the (anti-)stockpiling options, on Mantis on 2010-08-03 at 17:51.
Resolution: "no change required"
Beta testers are not almighty and can't change T17's decisions, especially priorities close to release.
Now would you be so kind and stop assuming things that you have zero knowledge about, and quit insulting people already?

NAiL
30 Aug 2010, 20:43
FYI, I've reported this, as well as the absent grenade bounce settings and the (anti-)stockpiling options, on Mantis on 2010-08-03 at 17:51.
Resolution: "no change required"
Beta testers are not almighty and can't change T17's decisions, especially priorities close to release.
Now would you be so kind and stop assuming things that you have zero knowledge about, and quit insulting people already?
All you've done is troll every post ive made with your friend DrMelon.
I haven't insulted anyone in this thread, why dont you check before lying like that.

Wormetti
30 Aug 2010, 21:37
The majority of WA games hosted use automatic placement since most people don't want to wait for everyone to place their worms. Rope races require manual placement but not in WR since race maps have proper starting and ending locations.
I'd like a manual placement option even though I would rarely use it but if there was a poll with what features to work on, I wouldn't vote for it first.

yakuza
30 Aug 2010, 22:18
FYI, I've reported this, as well as the absent grenade bounce settings and the (anti-)stockpiling options, on Mantis on 2010-08-03 at 17:51.
Resolution: "no change required"
Beta testers are not almighty and can't change T17's decisions, especially priorities close to release.
Now would you be so kind and stop assuming things that you have zero knowledge about, and quit insulting people already?
Bonz, would you agree that you're a special case amongst the masses of beta testers? Because you can't use a personal example to generalize a bunch of people who you and me both know don't try half as hard or add anything worthy

bonz
30 Aug 2010, 22:35
All you've done is troll every post ive made
In my previous post I just showed you that the "testers" did not miss reporting such a basic feature. Which was my first post in this thread.
Granted, my replies to your posts elsewhere might look like trolling though.
with your friend DrMelon.
I don't know DrMelon. I first read his posts prior to WR's release. (In case you're smelling a conspiracy).
I haven't insulted anyone in this thread
You're right, it wasn't insulting, but talking down certain people at least.
why dont you check before lying like that.
Well, that was unintentionally. Sorry.
Bonz, would you agree that you're a special case amongst the masses of beta testers?
No, there is at least one who is more special than me.
Because you can't use a personal example to generalize a bunch of people who you and me both know don't try half as hard or add anything worthy
I'm just fed up a bit with that constant and repeated bashing in the like of "this it not like WA", "that feels different than in WA", "where is feature X which was in WA", etc., while at the same time I know what bugs and lacking features Team17 already know about.
Funnily enough, the unresolved issues that I thought would cause the most uproar, didn't even get mentioned around here. (Apart from the rope and new physics engine, of course.)

yakuza
30 Aug 2010, 23:31
No, there is at least one who is more special than me.
yes, but that doesn't make you not special
I'm just fed up a bit with that constant and repeated bashing in the like of "this it not like WA", "that feels different than in WA", "where is feature X which was in WA", etc., while at the same time I know what bugs and lacking features Team17 already know about.
Funnily enough, the unresolved issues that I thought would cause the most uproar, didn't even get mentioned around here. (Apart from the rope and new physics engine, of course.)
But complainers are still right, in essence. They're just wrong in the sense they expected WR to be something it wasn't meant to be, and they're even more wrong in thinking team17 owed them, as if it were an act of betrayal

Thurbo
30 Aug 2010, 23:49
How are they right? You can't just keep saying that everything needs to be exactly as in WA. This is retarded, this is a completely different game. You could also complain that this game isn't exactly or is missing features from Worms 3D, how about that for a change?

hundreds
31 Aug 2010, 00:33
Why don't we stop pointing fingers and just realize that the ORIGINAL purpose of this thread, at it's most basic, is that a common feature of many worms games, specifically the ability to manually place worms at the start of a match is important to a lot of people, and that Worms Reloaded would benefit from such a feature.
I, for one, whole-heartedly agree that Team17 should seriously consider adding in this "easy to implement" feature. :) There are many things like this that would make this game better and richer. Let's not opinionize this thread and argue over it. At it's root, all features are opinions of what makes a good worms game. The point is, it would be in Team17's favor and the favor of their longtime (and new) fans to give each player enough options to make their experience with the game unique. This is one of those options that seems like it might be a no-brainer. And maybe it is already on the drawing board.
But I also understand that we might have to wait a while so that other bigger issues get fixed first. Unfortunately for a lot of people, WR doesn't even start for them!

NAiL
31 Aug 2010, 00:48
zzzzzzzz thurbo and people like thurbo: for the millionth time...
Don't misunderstand me or those who share the same view as me. We didn't want this game to be Worms Armageddon... we wanted it to be BETTER than Worms Armageddon. We are disappointed because in 10 years of time, with 10 years of community feedback, with 10 years of trial and error, with 10 years of improvements in computer technology... Team17 have finally produced a supposed sequel to W:A, and it is not even as good.
.
@Bonz
You seem to understand how the game is played online, even though you dont play regulary online like you used to do, and so are wrong about the amount of non-roping games being played online.
The only people ive "talked down" to have been Team17, and im sure Team17 are big enough and ugly enough to not take any offence from anything ive said. I alone mean nothing to Team17.
What they should care about however is the rapid decline in quality we've come to expect from Team17 games over the last decade. What they should care about are the ways in which their most popular game is played and enjoyed by thousands of people each day. What they should care about is wanting to make another incredible game, aiming not only to please noobs and fanboys who are easy to please, but the entirity of the worming population. What they should care about is wanting to make a game not only as good as WA, or simmilar to WA, but BETTER than WA in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY! Without any hesitation, ALL OF US will agree that this game is no where NEAR as good as WA, and unless some major re-working of the entire game engine is done, it will NEVER be as good as WA. I belive that after waiting over a DECADE, for another 2d Worms game for the PC, we are all entitled to be extremely dissapointed that are dreams were not fulfilled.
The people who say "Team 17 have taken the scheme back to how it was originally intended to be played" are WRONG! Team17 has obviously considered the fact that roping schemes are popular as they've included some roping schemes in the game! Obviously they realise the potential, but at the same time they have ruined it with the physics.
As we all know the roping issues are only one of many flaws already strikingly obvious with the game. People who say that the game is now better for non ropers are also wrong... Theres no select worms, you cant manually place worms on the environment, you cant have more than 4 worms in a team, the list goes on. The thing is these are OBVIOUS things that beta testers shouldnt need to remind them of. As Bonz said theres not alot that can be done about such MAJOR things like this with so little time til release.
The other thing I don't like is the fact that some beta testers either get a kick out of lying about WR, or are just simply ignorant to the ways in which WA is played. Ive seen numerous posts from "testers" saying that the rope and other things are exactly the same as in WA. I dont care if its not exactly same as in WA, whats annoying is the fact that people lied about how things would be. When theses people get pulled up on it they change the subject and say things like "IF YOU LIKE ROPE STAY WITH WA"... seriously, stop sucking up to Team17. When Team17 fail, they need to be told.
Team17 dont respond to questions asked by the community.
They've so far completely ignored all of the requests and complaints on this forum. Remember Team17, the customer is always right.
When a representative of Team17 does post, they post LIES!!
The Ninja Rope (in Worms Reloaded) is now pretty much the same as it was in the original Worms Armageddon on PC now. I'm sure there are a few beta testers who can confirm this as they worked with Grant on the tweaks.
How can you fanboys and beta testers not agree that this is a BLATENT LIE.
You can't expect Team17 to say things like this and then not get brought up on it.
The other point ive been trying to make is the fact that DC, CS, and many other members of the community have all worked hard on keeping WA alive and kicking, ultimately making it the most succcesful game in the series. Its a shame that all of the great features, maps, schemes and styles of play WA has created through evolution over the years, have not been incorporated in the new game. Instead what we get is another dumbed down pile of trash when it could have so easily been so much more, as we all wanted it to be!
I am perfectly entitled to express my dissapointment, especially when nearly every active wormer who regulary plays WA would agree with me. Hopefully Team17 will recognise this, and who knows, we may just get a game that is BETTER than WA. Think about that for a second, a Worms game that is better than WA... oh what joy this would bring to us all.

lDarKl
31 Aug 2010, 00:55
I didn't expect W:R to be great, honestly.. Or it being a lot like W:A.. But they took so (sooo) many steps backwards with this game it's incredible.. One of those steps being the lack of manual placement.
Of course some are fine with the game, which I totally understand, but being a hardcore Worms player myself, it does feel really strange to be so... limited in this new game.

Junkman
31 Aug 2010, 00:57
I'd like the random worm placement to work more properly before they put back the manual worm placement. Sure, you can decide upon the places where the worms will spawn in the editor to counteract the failings of the random spawning, but worms spawn too frequently next to each other in a cluster while leaving huge land masses vacant. That's really one of the only things that I find annoying about the game at the moment... that and the pretty limited scheme editing (WA's was a bit better, but not by much and you still needed external programs to achieve convenient scheme editing anyway).
Other than that, Worms Reloaded is pretty fun.

MtlAngelus
31 Aug 2010, 01:10
How are they right? You can't just keep saying that everything needs to be exactly as in WA. This is retarded, this is a completely different game. You could also complain that this game isn't exactly or is missing features from Worms 3D, how about that for a change?
It's been said above, and in countless other threads, but given your apparent attention span, I'll offer a shorter version:
WE DO NOT WANT THE SAME GAME AS W:A. WE WANT SOMETHING THAT IS BETTER.
Doesn't have to have the same weapons, features, heck even physics can be different, so long as they feel better, more polished, which is really not the case with this game.

Wormetti
31 Aug 2010, 01:11
As soon as Kel said that about the rope, I disputed it in private and most of the beta testers agreed that the rope was different but we were all under NDA, so we couldn't say anything in public.

RatScabies
31 Aug 2010, 08:07
How are they right? You can't just keep saying that everything needs to be exactly as in WA. This is retarded, this is a completely different game. You could also complain that this game isn't exactly or is missing features from Worms 3D, how about that for a change?
That's a silly thing to say. W:R is a port of a game called Worms 2:Armageddon for the 360. That's just a coincidence right? I'm sure they weren't referencing the same "Worms Armageddon" that was released back in the 90's...If you call something by the same name, comparisons are bound to come up. Claiming that they're supposed to be two completely different/unrelated games is demonstrably false. No matter which way you cut it, W:R is basically a watered down version of W:A put through the console mutator, with a sparse sprinkling of actually new content garnished on top. That's what everyone is complaining about. It's a stripped down version of a game than you could get 15 years ago. It's not a bad game, but it leaves people that have played W:A before wondering what's the point? I would have been much happier had they simply rereleased W:A to work with Steam. I don't feel that way about other new games, leading me to believe that it's not a good sign for this franchise...You may be fine with it, but plenty of people are disappointed that they preordered a game that doesn't remotely live up to expectations. I'm one of them.

mgamauf85
31 Aug 2010, 09:16
No select worms, no more than 4 worms, no manual placement...
What were T17 thinking? Didnt the testers think to mention anything?
good lord, would you mind stop moaning, i can barely take this anymore.
the game is out since when? ... close to a week or something?
me, for one, iīm just happy they developed another 2d worms, resulting in an active player lobby, nice graphics and the potential of an all perfect worms again!
maybe you should give them time to deploy a couple of patches!
same goes for all the "rope is bull****" whining, get over it - so you can`t just rope all over the map that easily anymore? well, then it seems to be a good idea to get over it and try a new tactic, or dig out your old copy of w:a and rope until your fingers bleed.
Please, guys, stop attacking Team 17 and give em time to patch this game, in the end itīs them who made those games, we all loved, right?

bonz
31 Aug 2010, 12:34
As soon as Kel said that about the rope, I disputed it in private and most of the beta testers agreed that the rope was different but we were all under NDA, so we couldn't say anything in public.
Exactly this!
T17 have decided to still release it that way, so all we can do is, hope that they'll change something.
Soonish.
Hopefully.
But to be realistic, there are still several major, showstopping bugs that IMO have top-priority, making a different rope experience look like peanuts.
E.g. Sheep blowing up with space while on the rope, the drill/blowtorch-worm-vanishing bug, rope going through terrain, sentry guns with wrong color, etc. Not to mention various crashes and long loading issues.

Psy-UK
31 Aug 2010, 12:37
How are they right? You can't just keep saying that everything needs to be exactly as in WA. This is retarded, this is a completely different game.
It's the first 2D Worms game for PC since WWP. People have every right to compare it to the older titles as this game clearly falls short of games released 9 years ago.

bonz
31 Aug 2010, 14:52
It's the first 2D Worms game for PC since WWP. People have every right to compare it to the older titles as this game clearly falls short of games released 9 years ago.
I wouldn't say that they have any rights, but it's obvious that they'll do.
Still, it's quite naive if anyone truly believed that it would be the same or even more than the old games. Not with the fact that this game is based on various console versions from the recent years.
Let's just hope that this game sells well enough to provide T17 with a big enough budget to support it for a long time.

Thurbo
31 Aug 2010, 15:39
The Ninja Rope (in Worms Reloaded) is now pretty much the same as it was in the original Worms Armageddon on PC now. I'm sure there are a few beta testers who can confirm this as they worked with Grant on the tweaks. How can you fanboys and beta testers not agree that this is a BLATENT LIE.
You can't expect Team17 to say things like this and then not get brought up on it.
I agree with you there. I mean, I was a beta tester and therefore I knew the rope works differently now. When they said that I actually put a post somewhere where I wrote the rope doesn't work as in WA, but it got deleted straightaway and I even got infracted.
Long story short, they possibly tried to pull your leg. Sorry.

hundreds
31 Aug 2010, 17:42
Let's just hope that this game sells well enough to provide T17 with a big enough budget to support it for a long time.
Agreed. It may take even a few years to evolve into the "next Armageddon" and maybe that is unacceptable to many, but the potential is still there and I, for one, feel OK about waiting. It's either that, or wait till Armageddon gets patched properly to work in Windows 7 and is finally given 24-bit graphics.
That's what is important to me, and those are my only two options.

Thurbo
31 Aug 2010, 17:47
It would please me if we could get it the next Armageddon - but please, let's focus on Worms Reloaded only and what sort of stuff could be added to improve it.
Means without anybody saying "but this and this doesn't work as in WA, still." That starts getting really dead-annoying.

DarkMitch
2 Sep 2010, 10:56
I'm pretty capable of living with a lack of worm placement, to be honest. It actually isn't that difficult to set a 1 turn delay on every weapon but teleport at the start- and while that just wouldn't fly with W:A- in a game where you're restricted to only four people as well as steamworks integration, Worms: Reloaded has a larger emphasis on playing with your friends. So teleporting at the start is a fairly quick process- and you probably won't get players arguing about the system in game.
Worm placement would definitely be a great thing to re-implement, but to be honest. I would like my good 'ol low gravity and dedicated jetpack hotkey backē.
ēThat is to say I haven't found a jetpack hotkey yet . .

Komo
2 Sep 2010, 13:29
zzzzzzzz thurbo and people like thurbo: for the millionth time...
@Bonz
You seem to understand how the game is played online, even though you dont play regulary online like you used to do, and so are wrong about the amount of non-roping games being played online.
The only people ive "talked down" to have been Team17, and im sure Team17 are big enough and ugly enough to not take any offence from anything ive said. I alone mean nothing to Team17.
What they should care about however is the rapid decline in quality we've come to expect from Team17 games over the last decade. What they should care about are the ways in which their most popular game is played and enjoyed by thousands of people each day. What they should care about is wanting to make another incredible game, aiming not only to please noobs and fanboys who are easy to please, but the entirity of the worming population. What they should care about is wanting to make a game not only as good as WA, or simmilar to WA, but BETTER than WA in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY! Without any hesitation, ALL OF US will agree that this game is no where NEAR as good as WA, and unless some major re-working of the entire game engine is done, it will NEVER be as good as WA. I belive that after waiting over a DECADE, for another 2d Worms game for the PC, we are all entitled to be extremely dissapointed that are dreams were not fulfilled.
The people who say "Team 17 have taken the scheme back to how it was originally intended to be played" are WRONG! Team17 has obviously considered the fact that roping schemes are popular as they've included some roping schemes in the game! Obviously they realise the potential, but at the same time they have ruined it with the physics.
As we all know the roping issues are only one of many flaws already strikingly obvious with the game. People who say that the game is now better for non ropers are also wrong... Theres no select worms, you cant manually place worms on the environment, you cant have more than 4 worms in a team, the list goes on. The thing is these are OBVIOUS things that beta testers shouldnt need to remind them of. As Bonz said theres not alot that can be done about such MAJOR things like this with so little time til release.
The other thing I don't like is the fact that some beta testers either get a kick out of lying about WR, or are just simply ignorant to the ways in which WA is played. Ive seen numerous posts from "testers" saying that the rope and other things are exactly the same as in WA. I dont care if its not exactly same as in WA, whats annoying is the fact that people lied about how things would be. When theses people get pulled up on it they change the subject and say things like "IF YOU LIKE ROPE STAY WITH WA"... seriously, stop sucking up to Team17. When Team17 fail, they need to be told.
Team17 dont respond to questions asked by the community.
They've so far completely ignored all of the requests and complaints on this forum. Remember Team17, the customer is always right.
When a representative of Team17 does post, they post LIES!!
How can you fanboys and beta testers not agree that this is a BLATENT LIE.
You can't expect Team17 to say things like this and then not get brought up on it.
The other point ive been trying to make is the fact that DC, CS, and many other members of the community have all worked hard on keeping WA alive and kicking, ultimately making it the most succcesful game in the series. Its a shame that all of the great features, maps, schemes and styles of play WA has created through evolution over the years, have not been incorporated in the new game. Instead what we get is another dumbed down pile of trash when it could have so easily been so much more, as we all wanted it to be!
I am perfectly entitled to express my dissapointment, especially when nearly every active wormer who regulary plays WA would agree with me. Hopefully Team17 will recognise this, and who knows, we may just get a game that is BETTER than WA. Think about that for a second, a Worms game that is better than WA... oh what joy this would bring to us all.
Nail, I really wish I could shake your hand right now, that is literally the best post I have read for years, I agree with absolutely everything you have said, I don't even have to say anything else about this matter because you think exactly like me and have said everything I could have said about every point you have made.
Team17 should focus on THIS post, and act upon it.

Thurbo
2 Sep 2010, 17:07
Or they could just completely ignore you.
Which is what they actually do, for a good reason.

hundreds
2 Sep 2010, 17:47
I don't think they should ignore their fan base. And I don't think they will. I am pretty sure they won't be getting into an argument on this forum though. :)

buZz
3 Sep 2010, 12:01
I were in direct contact with Team17 and they will think about some facts the community is worried about, also the manual placement but they cant make any promises at the moment.
Thats the reason why you shouldn't think that they won't care about us. Team17 is one of the developer that REALLY care about the community, believe me!

Thurbo
3 Sep 2010, 13:59
I was actually directly relating to the posts. They are pretty much requesting extra features neither planned nor necessary for the actual game, like a rope with WA physics because they are too lazy to learn how to use the new one or manual placements, that sort of stuff. Therefore you should kindly ask them for this or give reasons why it would be good to have these features in your oppinion.
However telling them the game is a complete failure because of the lack of pretty small extra features or even insulting them is not the right way to get people doing something for you. I hope you understand what I mean.

slayer
3 Sep 2010, 14:00
I were in direct contact with Team17 and they will think about some facts the community is worried about, also the manual placement but they cant make any promises at the moment.
Thats the reason why you shouldn't think that they won't care about us. Team17 is one of the developer that REALLY care about the community, believe me!
People don't get it. "They will think about some facts". Great. Awesome.
It takes a lot more than some minor changes to make this game actually decent and worth playing competitive.

Etho.
3 Sep 2010, 18:37
They are pretty much requesting extra features neither planned nor necessary for the actual game, like a rope with WA physics because they are too lazy to learn how to use the new one or manual placements
Seriously? Who said we haven't learned how to use the new one? I don't know about the rest of us haters, but I've actually spent a few hours playing around with the rope... trying to figure out what it can and can't do. I've even learned a few cool and extremely useful tricks you can do with it.
But guess what, I don't like the rope. Don't try to claim that my opinion is based on ignorance.
Also, you are just being hard headed about the manual placement issue now. It has already been discussed, in this topic, that it is possible for a host to cheat in any non-ranked game by setting unfair starting locations in the map. You honestly don't think that is a serious design flaw in the game?

Wormetti
3 Sep 2010, 19:36
Allowing the map creator to specific starting locations is hardly a design flaw but all players should be able to view their starting location before agreeing to start the game. Since it's not allowed in ranked games, it's not a real problem since you can just join a new game if the host insists on using an unfair map.

Thurbo
4 Sep 2010, 09:47
But guess what, I don't like the rope. Don't try to claim that my opinion is based on ignorance.
I don't care, some people like the rope, some don't. Like it's the case with any game, it's hard to please everyone.
Also, you are just being hard headed about the manual placement issue now. It has already been discussed, in this topic, that it is possible for a host to cheat in any non-ranked game by setting unfair starting locations in the map. You honestly don't think that is a serious design flaw in the game?
Probably yes, but I never run into a game like this, and if so I'd just quit. However who on Earth do you think would do this? How fun is it starting a match with winning immediately because you set all other worms on mines or above the water? I don't really see an issue there.

Etho.
4 Sep 2010, 20:43
Thurbo, I know things like the rope and having the option of manual placements, are not an issue for you. From what I can tell, you seem to like the game just the way it is. Honestly, I think that is great. I'm truthfully glad you are enjoying it.
You know what, these things are not really an issue for me personally either. I almost don't even play this game anymore because it didn't hook me. Also, I too am not worried about players taking advantage of design flaws in online games, because I can not find any hosted games. So this is clearly not an issue that affects me personally.
So you might be asking yourself, "Why is Etho making such a fuss about something that doesn't even affect him?" Well basically, if Team17 ever make another 2D Worms game for the PC, Xbox360, PS3, etc.; they are not likely to start from scratch. They are going to take the last game they made for that platform, and build from it. Any errors, flaws, and things we don't like, are going to end up in their next game also, unless they are convinced they need to fix / change them. The next Worms game I buy, I don't want to keep having these (I can't believe they made that same mistake AGAIN!) moments.
Myself and many others are trying to inform Team17 and the Worms community about these problems. We want them fixed, not repeated. In particular yourself (Thurbo) and DrMelon are counteracting this. My question is, WHY?
Fine you can have your opinions about things you don't want changed, even if they seem really foolish to anyone that has played W:A for a decent amount. This is a forum and you are allowed to express yourself. But why the heck are you negating requests for features to be added to the game (and future games)?
You could care less about manual worm placements but many other players want this feature. That's like someone giving you a chocolate bar for free. You don't want to eat it but your friends do, but instead of allowing them to have it you throw it in the garbage because you didn't think it was necessary. WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU? No harm would come from adding manual worm placements to the game so why can't you just leave it be? We've even pointed out a serious design flaw in the game which manual worm placement would help to over come, and you still won't let us have our chocolate bar!

Thurbo
4 Sep 2010, 21:03
Myself and many others are trying to inform Team17 and the Worms community about these problems. We want them fixed, not repeated. In particular yourself (Thurbo) and DrMelon are counteracting this. My question is, WHY?
You are talking about manual placements now? There's neither a problem nor a mistake. They didn't even integrate it.
Fine you can have your opinions about things you don't want changed, even if they seem really foolish to anyone that has played W:A for a decent amount. This is a forum and you are allowed to express yourself.
Yes, their brains are still nor linked to W:R - they think that W:A was perfect so everything not working as in W:A is a fail, while they forget this game's completely different and - hey, something not working in W:A possibly works now! And the other way around.
But why the heck are you negating requests for features to be added to the game (and future games)?
I'm not even against this option. It might be even pretty good for the game as an extra option. I'm rather critizising the way some of you tell Team17 you want it. It's a small extra option almost up to not having any relevance at all for this game and Team17 don't have to integrate it. So if you go saying "you guys suck, where's manual placement option" I don't see a reason why they should change it.
You could care less about manual worm placements but many other players want this feature. That's like someone giving you a chocolate bar for free. You don't want to eat it but your friends do, but instead of allowing them to have it you throw it in the garbage because you didn't think it was necessary. WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU? No harm would come from adding manual worm placements to the game so why can't you just leave it be? We've even pointed out a serious design flaw in the game which manual worm placement would help to over come, and you still won't let us have our chocolate bar!
That's what I mean. You're begging for a chocolate for free - there's no reason anybody should give it to you. Even more if you threaten the pesons you try to cadge the chocolate bar off.
You can survive without eating chocolate, it's a small little extra thing you enjoy apart from essential stuff, so why are you making such a fuss?

Komo
10 Sep 2010, 04:46
It is a problem so if people complain and if so many people would like it, and I am guessing it IS a mistake that they missed it out, that they forgot about it altogether, and I personally think it's a pretty stupid thing to do, but meh, that's my opinion so shove it...
In my opinion, WA IS the most perfect Worms game, you should seriously try it for yourself, and if you are scared (not saying you are though) you just won't be able to compete, just practise with other players who are not so good, and get better.
We haven't swore and seriously insulted T17, as a very successful company I am sure they can handle criticism, as a matter of fact, most companys don't get as good as they are without it, it's the only way they can make their products better because the vast majority of the customers are always right, always.
No ones begging for anything, we are simply pointing out, that if they would an incredible amount more players, making them profit, they should make some fixes, and add features most of us feel neccesary...
I personally gave up on WR now, I got a loan of it from a friend and I was going to purchase it properly when I got paid, but you know what, theres no point, I know games nowadays mostly always come out with bugs n glitches, but seriously, T17 have been making Worms games for how long now? At least 15 years that I know of... And they still can't get it right without literally close to 100, this time, even more problems on 1st release...
It is kind of a bummer when you are one of their most loyal customers...

yakuza
10 Sep 2010, 10:33
WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU?
His attitude can be easily explained. He has prejudices. Prejudices that come from playing WA and feeling frustated about its complexity. Now he has an agenda.
We call them noobs, they used to live in Worms World Party.

Thurbo
11 Sep 2010, 14:35
His attitude can be easily explained. He has prejudices. Prejudices that come from playing WA and feeling frustated about its complexity. Now he has an agenda.
We call them noobs, they used to live in Worms World Party.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2235/bild9i.png
You should change your avatar into this. Fits more to the complexity of your brain.

buZz
11 Sep 2010, 19:16
your flame doesn't help us.

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