A BIG Question Important for many... [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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GrO
17 Dec 2010, 04:51
Hi again...
I've bought W:A 5 years ago (mainly for MultiPlayer gaming), but I never could play ONLINE.
Why?
Because Port 6667 is permanently blocked by my provider. So the question is:
Can we use other port to connect to WN?

Lex
17 Dec 2010, 08:02
You're saying Poland blocks outgoing connections via the IRC port? No way. Someone's been lying to you. There are plenty of WormNET users from Poland.
Anyway, if that's your only problem, you can just use WebSnoop (http://snoop.worms2d.info/) to play online. Make sure you use the latest update of WA (3.6.31.0) though, since WebSnoop requires a relatively recent version to directly connect via wa:// URLs.

CyberShadow
17 Dec 2010, 13:23
Your ISP is definitely lying to you. Port 6667 is the port most commonly used for IRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat), a very common Internet chat protocol. Check the contract you signed with your ISP - if this is not accounted for in the contract, you may even threaten to sue them for non-delivery of contractual obligations.

GrO
17 Dec 2010, 17:18
Polish players with their own routers are able to open Port 6667.
But users like me, with CABLE connection + external private IP (no router) have no choice and no one is lying me, cause using G00gle will tell You, that Port 6667 is highly insecure:
READ THIS (http://www.pc-library.com/ports/tcp-udp-port/6667/)
Port 6667 is also a common port exploited by remote users and malware applications to infect other computers through the program. These malware variants include spyware, Trojan, worms with capabilities, like keyloggers, Denial of Service (DoS), backdoor creation, and the like.
Alot of people has the same situation, as me and You know that.
BTW:
I'm not n00b and I'm always updating everything, what may be updated (OS, drivers, programs and games), so my W:A version is:
3.6.31.0
Look at my registration date... during those years I was searching and reading about Port 6667, trying to force my provider to make an exception for me and Open this Port for me. Everytime I got the same answer: "We can't open this Port, cause it's insecure... and we can't make any exceptions for anyone".
@CyberShadow my contract says nothing about Port 6667, but I don't see any business in blocking this single Port by my provider (this is the only Port blocked by them).
Is it really so hard for Team17 to stop using Port 6667 and switch to a different one?
@Lex BIG thanks for that WebSnoop site. I didn't know about that, You're awesome, cause it's working ;] Finally!

CyberShadow
17 Dec 2010, 17:27
cause using G00gle will tell You, that Port 6667 is highly insecure:
READ THIS (http://www.pc-library.com/ports/tcp-udp-port/6667/)
Sorry, but that article is written in a very biased manner. Notice how the page is littered with advertisements for security software products? Saying that a certain TCP port is "insecure" is meaningless.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat:
IRC was invented in 1988. Client software is now available for nearly every computer platform that supports internet access. As of May 2009, the top 100 IRC networks served more than half a million users at a time, with hundreds of thousands of channels (the vast majority of which stand mostly vacant), operating on a total of roughly 1,500 servers worldwide.
Alot of people has the same situation, as me and You know that.Nope, just you. You are the first user to complain about a similar situation. IRC is often blocked in corporate and education networks, but not because it is an "insecure" port.
Is it really so hard for Team17 to stop using Port 6667 and switch to a different one?Yes, it is.

jsgnext
17 Dec 2010, 17:54
If you are afraid of opening ports.....just use wormNAT, I do -.-
I can play WA online, host, join games.....and all stuff without opening a single port....

CyberShadow
17 Dec 2010, 19:12
jsgnext: the expression "open a port" is ambiguous. GrO can't make outgoing connections on port 6667. What you mean is configuring incoming connections for hosting, which is unrelated to GrO's problem.

GrO
17 Dec 2010, 20:16
Yup, WormNat won't help me, it's not the case.
@CyberShadow Click Here (http://www.google.pl/#hl=pl&source=hp&biw=1276&bih=817&q=wormnet+connection+problem&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=464ca6f0cdadce1b) please.
Some cases are solved, but most cases not, cause of the provider.
I can play thanks to Lex, it's awesome, but I can't HOST in the Lobby and I don't need to forward any ports, while I've private external IP and well configured FW (while in tests whole 3d Party protection software was Disabled).
There are even more articles about 6667 port's insecurity and wikipedia don't includes all information, but if You say it's hard for T17 to switch that port, so what can I say more...
Again BIG thanks Lex for Your help, without You I would be in dark a*s.

Lex
17 Dec 2010, 20:30
GrO, CyberShadow is a developer for Worms Armageddon. He also made and hosts WebSnoop AND HostingBuddy. You really should be thanking him and listening to him. He's not wrong here. Port 6667 is not "insecure". Your ISP blocking outgoing connections on it is nonsense. You should threaten legal action.

CyberShadow
17 Dec 2010, 20:40
@CyberShadow Click Here (http://www.google.pl/#hl=pl&source=hp&biw=1276&bih=817&q=wormnet+connection+problem&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=464ca6f0cdadce1b) please.
Some cases are solved, but most cases not, cause of the provider.Oh, wow! Look at that. Threads where I helped other people with their connection problems. Hmm, how surprising! If you look at the first page of the Team17 forum results, all you can see is people having problems from other reasons, or completely other problems... well, I guess I must be blind and stupid, and not remember having helped people on this very forum with quite similar problems over the last few years!There are even more articles about 6667 port's insecurity and wikipedia don't includes all informationOh yes, I'm sure that Team17 has lost zillions of sales because the poor scammed people from security-conscious Polish ISPs couldn't connect to WormNET servers set up by technologically-ignorant Team17 people. And, of course, the millions of people using IRC today are all evil hackers who should be put in jail or banned from the Internet...Again BIG thanks Lex for Your help, without You I would be in dark a*s.When you're done showering Lex with your thanks, you may want to take note who wrote the WebSnooper in the first place ;)

GrO
17 Dec 2010, 21:14
Yeah, I know that all the latest updates are comming from CyberShadow's hand, You're doing a great job here, but You can try to understand me too. No need to be sarcastic.
Thanks for all Your job CyberShadow and Your potential help.
Is there a way for me to host a game that will be viewable in WormNet Lobby without access to Port 6667 ?
I want to host some pro games like WxW or Fly-Shoppa, there's no fly shoppa these times and I always loved to play it on WWP. Now WWP is outdated, especially for Win7 64 bit user.

CyberShadow
17 Dec 2010, 21:17
I've been planning to add the ability to host (via HostingBuddy, OSLT) to WebSnoop for a while now. Until now, it wasn't much of a priority; I might add it in the next few weeks.

OutofOrder
17 Dec 2010, 23:10
cause using G00gle will tell You, that Port 6667 is highly insecure:
I think even Google disagrees with you (http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=port+6667+is+insecure&word2=port+6667+is+secure).
More seriously though, you are believing in a lie.

GrO
17 Dec 2010, 23:58
I've been planning to add the ability to host (via HostingBuddy, OSLT) to WebSnoop for a while now. Until now, it wasn't much of a priority; I might add it in the next few weeks.
Wow, would be great, thanks for interesting.
I think even Google disagrees with you (http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=port+6667+is+insecure&word2=port+6667+is+secure).
More seriously though, you are believing in a lie.
Weird. It seems You're all right. I don't understand why they're doing this. It's nounderstandable...

Fluffy
18 Dec 2010, 01:21
You're saying Poland blocks outgoing connections via the IRC port? No way. Someone's been lying to you. There are plenty of WormNET users from Poland.
Anyway, if that's your only problem, you can just use WebSnoop (http://snoop.worms2d.info/) to play online. Make sure you use the latest update of WA (3.6.31.0) though, since WebSnoop requires a relatively recent version to directly connect via wa:// URLs.
Oh wow, I'd never seen websnoop before, it looks *****in'.

Explorer
18 Dec 2010, 04:22
I think even Google disagrees with you (http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=port+6667+is+insecure&word2=port+6667+is+secure).
More seriously though, you are believing in a lie.
I don't think it's a lie, but something ambiguous.
I myself did some Google search and found these.
First, from pc-libray.com too:
http://www.pc-library.com/ports/tcp-udp-port/6666/
Port 6666, along with ports 6665, 6667, 6668, 6669, is also used by Trojans and worms to infect remote computers through the active IRC client or server. These malware includes those variants that open up port 6666 as a backdoor for remote user to enter the system or DoS malware variants.
Also: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-security-4/port-6667-insecure-60822/
A port being a risk is simply bull****. A port itself CAN'T be a risk. Just the service listening on that port can. What do they say if I run a chrooted SSH daemon on Port 6667? Is that INSECURE? Definately not. Are they blocking port 21 because FTP uses cleartext passwords ? Do they block port 80 because data sent is not encrypted ?
(posted by markus1982)
That means the fault is not to the IRC port itself, but to the programs stealing that port to do something bad.
Please correct me if I have something wrong.

Lex
18 Dec 2010, 08:04
In this particular case, Worms Armageddon (WA.exe) is connecting to the WormNET server via port 6667. Worms Armageddon can send and receive data using this port. Worms Armageddon 3.6.31.0 has no security loopholes allowing those from whom it receives data to execute code remotely. In this case, the usage of port 6667 is completely "secure".
In this example (http://securitytracker.com/alerts/2007/Apr/1017982.html), versions of Trillian (a popular multi-protocol chat program) prior to 3.1.5.0 had an exploitable vulnerability which allowed a remote user to trigger a heap overflow and execute arbitrary code on the victim's machine using the IRC protocol (and therefore port 6667). This doesn't mean that the port is insecure. This means that versions of Trillian prior to 3.1.5.0 (which just happen to be listening on port 6667) are vulnerable to this attack. The port number itself is arbitrary here.

franpa
18 Dec 2010, 17:56
I can play thanks to Lex, it's awesome, but I can't HOST in the Lobby and I don't need to forward any ports, while I've private external IP and well configured FW (while in tests whole 3d Party protection software was Disabled). Disable settings in your firewall that relate to IRC and chat clients like Instant Messaging programs.

GrO
18 Dec 2010, 18:21
Disable settings in your firewall that relate to IRC and chat clients like Instant Messaging programs.
Thanks for Your trying to help, but my case isn't related to any local software. Read the topic please.

M3ntal
18 Dec 2010, 19:05
Every single port is a potential security hole, the only way to be secure from online infection of malicious software is to not have an internet connection. The people who create these malicious programs choose whatever ports they wish them to use, there is nothing specific about 6667 that makes it less secure than any other, it is generally used to host chat servers that communicate using the IRC protocol, as explained earlier. The WormNET lobby is a cut-down version of an IRC chat server.
Some malicious software is programmed to steal data (for example passwords) and send it back to the person who released it, or even allow them to take control over your computer when they wish to. One method of doing this is to set up a private IRC chat server as a place where all of the malicious software can log on to transfer what data they have stolen and/or wait for commands from the attacker to be typed into the chat. This is perhaps why your ISP has blocked any outgoing connections to port 6667, although the attacker could host the chat server on any port they wished, or use a different method entirely, so it seems pointless to sacrifice so many other legitimate applications for this small subset of trojans.
Team17 could in theory host the WormNET chat server on a different port, but it'd cause all kinds of problems. For a start, everyone would have to update their W:A to play online as older versions would still try to connect to 6667 and get a connection error. That'd cause way more complaints as it'd no longer work out of the box for anyone, and there'd be no way to tell them to update unless they happened to browse this forum or the facebook page or something.
Also, Team17 aren't willing to invest any time or money on a twelve year old game that they no longer make money on, in fact i'd be surprised if their share of what little sales it gets even covers WormNET's running costs. CyberShadow maintains it for free as a hobby, purely because he asked them if he could and they trusted him, but he doesn't have access to the WormNET server so can't update it.

Fluffy
18 Dec 2010, 19:30
Well if you're really desperate and have access to a machine somewhere without the 6667 restriction you could setup an irc proxy, or an ssh tunnel. If you don't, there's probably some public irc proxies somewhere you could use. But if you don't know what you're doing and aren't technically inclined, I wouldn't bother.

GreeN
19 Dec 2010, 00:20
I'd suggest changing your ISP or internet package. If they're this cautious about something so arbitrary, chances are that you'd have problems elsewhere along the line, if you looked for them. Having your own router also provides you with some useful features (e.g. port forwarding, wireless support).

GrO
19 Dec 2010, 01:18
@M3ntal You're absolutely right. The problem is, my ISP is testing/configuring new Gate Software and they don't want to mess with it now. There's a chance they'll open it in the future, but it's only a "chance" for now.
I know CyberShadow is a great person and he supports W:A, cause he likes it, he's very helpful and doing it all for free and for satisfaction. Thanks to CyberShadow we can play this old, but still wonderful game.
WebSnoop is a genius thingy, cause it actually works very well for me. No matter that my chat window is empty and I can't use it, but I see and can connect to all games properly hosted.
When CyberShadow will implement Hosting feature to WebSnoop, there will be everything I need.
@Fluffy I know how to use proxy, but I don't have access to machine with Port 6667 opened and my friends are too n00b, too far, or too lazy to host a proxy for me. Even if some of them could make it, my connection would be dependent of his/her PC status.
@GreeN I'm their client for about 7 years. Never had any other problems, except this one 6667 port blocked (it's the only Port they're blocking). My speeds are symmetrical: Day: 10Mb/10Mb, Night: 20Mb/20Mb [DL/UP] for 21 USD/month.
It's a big residential network, that's why it's so cheap and fast. So You see, that changing my ISP isn't so simple decision for me.
I'll stick to the genius idea named WebSnoop, while it's solving my problem.

GrO
27 Dec 2010, 14:08
One additional question, but while it's not too important, so if the answer is "No" or it's too complicated to make, don't even bother to reply:
Is it possible for You CyberShadow to make WebSnoop able to check, if Port 6667 is available and if not, force it to use some alternative Port for chatting in AG?

CyberShadow
27 Dec 2010, 15:17
Are you sure you meant WebSnoop? WebSnoop runs over HTTP, your computer doesn't need to connect to port 6667 at all.
WormNET IRC only listens on port 6667. It might be hard or impossible to reconfigure it to run on more than one port (and we can't just move the port, as it'll break every existing WormNET client).

GrO
28 Dec 2010, 03:52
Are you sure you meant WebSnoop? WebSnoop runs over HTTP, your computer doesn't need to connect to port 6667 at all.
WormNET IRC only listens on port 6667. It might be hard or impossible to reconfigure it to run on more than one port (and we can't just move the port, as it'll break every existing WormNET client).
Yes WebSnoop, while it's the only way for me to play online ;]
I see users, I see games (and I can join them), but the chat window is always empty:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1017/50183856.th.png (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1017/50183856.png)
And right Bar is resizing, as usual, when chat-window's content changes. Maybe it's not fully compatible with IE browser.
Even, when I'll write something, it's invisible for me.

CyberShadow
28 Dec 2010, 04:07
Oops, looks like I broke chat in Internet Explorer a while ago. Fixed now. (It didn't have anything to do with IRC or port 6667, just IE's disregard for web standards.)

GrO
29 Dec 2010, 23:04
Oops, looks like I broke chat in Internet Explorer a while ago. Fixed now. (It didn't have anything to do with IRC or port 6667, just IE's disregard for web standards.)
Wow, You're so quick, just wanted to play now and noticed it's working ;] Amazing, thanks.
EDIT:
Is WebSnoop down or You're adding the Hosting ability, cause it's unavailable for about 30 minutes now?

CyberShadow
30 Dec 2010, 04:52
Apache went down for a few hours.

GrO
4 Jan 2011, 13:40
Apache went down for a few hours.
Thx for the info, firstly I thought my DNS went down.
EDIT:
Is it possible for You CyberShadow to force automatic wa://...? links parsing in AG's Main & PM chat, so it will be executed on a Click? This way joining my TCP/IP server would be easier for everyone without necessity of turning WA Off and pasting the link into "Run" or Browser's Address Bar.
I like to host schemes or maps, which are rarely played, like 3in1, 4in1, BIG and Vertical (BIG) maps, and my connection is perfect for hosting, while it's symmetrical 20Mb / 20Mb cable connection.
But making someone to paste that link anywhere is almost impossible and there's no other way (for now) for me to host.

CyberShadow
4 Jan 2011, 13:41
Have you tried other snoopers (ProSnooper, Wheat Snooper)? They may allow you to join/host games even without being able to connect to WormNET chat.

GrO
4 Jan 2011, 15:33
Have you tried other snoopers (ProSnooper, Wheat Snooper)? They may allow you to join/host games even without being able to connect to WormNET chat.
One day i tried some Snooper, but it was really long time ago. Thanks for the advice then, I'll try those You mentioned.
EDIT:
Seems like ProSnooperFx is the only helpful one, someone has joined my game and I've seen my host in ProSnooperFx, but as You could expect, the chat and Player List fails to show up.
Wheat Snooper failed at all. I couldn't Log-In even with "Secure Logging" with my login/pass from:
tus-wa.com

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