Say a new PC 2D worms happens; Flash maps? [Archive] - Team17 Forum

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raffie
20 May 2007, 13:40
Say T17 is working on a 2D Worms game for PC, or they plan on making it. My question is, what is the feasability of being able to use Flash .swf files as maps?
Both technically and Adobe-permission related?
From my POV (as a map-maker) it would make for interesting gameplay to be able to use all kinds of interactive/animated maps, being able to use vector content, even if only a part of the abilities of Flash could be utilized...

AndrewTaylor
20 May 2007, 14:00
I recall CS talking about (and protoyping) treating WA's maps as through they had a vector outline around them to fix the dodgy bounce mechanics. I don't know if anyone's proposed fully vector-based maps before, but I've thought about it. Certainly it's possible to do all the collision detection and terrain destruction in vector format -- I know this because I've done it.
Using vector-based maps alone would make animating them or ading interactivity easier, I think: if they were made up of shapes which could move, rotate, skew, bend and resize themselves on a script (or in response to in-game events such as objects sat on them, wind or nearby explosions*) then any deformations to them would do the same thing, and any objects sat on them could move with them without any major problems.
That said, I'm not at all sure Flash is the best way to do that. I think to make it practical some dedicated file format would have to be employed. However, the SWF format is pretty well documented, so I think it might be possible to make a not-very-good converter from one to the other.
That's what I think, anyway.
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*For reference, I'm imagining a sort of split-pins-and-cardboard approach, where each shape can be fixed onto others, or anchored firmly in place, or left free to fall around the place, and can have a weighted response to wind, explosions, weight of objects, momentum from bounces, or whatver. Then you'd need a table for what shapes can bounce of each other and which can pass through each other. It'd be massively complicated to make, but it'd be great if it worked.

raffie
20 May 2007, 14:24
Yes I've read the same thread, and the reason why i didnt post in the WA forum is because i'm pretty certain Flash maps in WA arent feasable at all. A vector file is an entire different beast from a flash file. In fact Flash has its own collision detection and one could make an entire basic worms game all in Flash/actionscript. But yes, pixels as well as vectors can be used in a flash file (not even one OR the other). Destructability may be an issue though?
I was thinking also about the animation, timeline, and interactive effects that could be incorporated into the gameplay when using Flash/actionscript. The possibilities for new game schemes are endless, and so are those for existing schemes. ie: In actionscript one could write a condition for what makes the game end (RR: when a worm reaches the end, CTF: when the flag is completely destroyed)
edit: come to think of it, the flash file could automatically link to a XML scheme file so it is automatically chosen when loading up the map. As i said, the possibilities are endless.

AndrewTaylor
20 May 2007, 15:02
I was thinking also about the animation, timeline, and interactive effects that could be incorporated into the gameplay when using Flash/actionscript. The possibilities for new game schemes are endless, and so are those for existing schemes. ie: In actionscript one could write a condition for what makes the game end (RR: when a worm reaches the end, CTF: when the flag is completely destroyed)
Could you, though? A worm isn't an object that exists in Flash; Actionscript has no API calls for bazooka shells or terrain destruction. If you made the whole game in Flash+Actionscript then you could do this, but it wouldn't exactly run very well.
It's like the collision detection thing: Yeah, Flash can do collision detection but it's not very good and it's not a feature of the file format but of the player. If Team17 wanted to incorporate it into their game, they'd have to duplicate Flash's behaviour in their own code -- and the same goes for Actionscript, graphics rendering, timelines, tweening, and everything else Flash can do. I think that would ultimately be more hassle than making a dedicated format and editor for it.

raffie
20 May 2007, 17:19
Ah well, thats where my knowledge ends and my original question begins. I'm a webdesigner/developer, I know my way around web-based scripting, but nothing about application developing.

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